We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 67
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    Are you sure? Considering that it is speculated that GdT is responsible for The Goblin King and The Stone Giant fight (and indeed there are shadows of these in his earlier works - so probably true.) I'm not so sure that his vision of those iconic characters will match mine.
    It pays to remember that the Great Goblin is grotesque in the book: 'a tremendous goblin with a huge head'. And given that GdT had little more time than it would take to do concepts before all the wrangling forced him off the movie, it wouldn't surprise me if the look of the Stone Giants was his work while what happens in that scene is someone else's.

    But in any case, the guy can come up with some seriously scary stuff when he wants to and really understands fantasy in a way I don't think PJ does.

  2. #27
    Maybe I am wrong but Peter Jackson still did very, very good and I don't want any arguing with that. OK?

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    912
    Quote Originally Posted by RocketBoy View Post
    Maybe I am wrong but Peter Jackson still did very, very good and I don't want any arguing with that. OK?
    LOL - Well then, OK!!
    Take Care,
    D.
    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Fionnuala View Post
    These points in particular make me think that The Sil would make a brilliant anime.
    * blink *

    I just had a vision of the Silmarillion presented Heavy Metal style - a vision both intriguing and horrifying.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindaelle View Post
    My reaction? To be honest, relieved. I already have my own images of the book that I want to keep.
    Yeah, I know what you are talking about. I saw the Lord of the Rings movies (and loved them) when I was 9 or 10 or something like that. When I first started reading the books a little over two years ago (I was almost 15 then), and I really understood what they were all about, I became angry with the films. The Lord of the Rings trilogy was the most magical, fantastical and enchanting piece of literature I had ever read, but because of the films I couldn't make my own pictures in my head for around half of the scenes that also appeared in the films. I damned the films and Peter Jackson and it has given me a broken heart... The magic was partly ruined for me.

    I am SO glad I read many other books BEFORE the films, like The Hobbit and the Harry Potter series (though I read the last book about 5 years ago). I have noticed that I AM actually capable of keeping my own images in my head after seeing film versions of books I have already read. Bag End, the trolls, Rivendell, the goblins etc. are still the same in my head, DIFFERENT from the films. Hogwarts doesn't look like the film version in my head as well, and the characters have their own appearance.

    Once again, a last lament: I wish the Lord of the Rings films would have come out after this series of The Hobbit films.
    The Road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone, and I must follow, if I can.
    ~Bilbo Baggins~

  6. #31
    I think Christopher Tolkien's reaction is a little over dramatic.

    The commercialization of LoTR has brought its amazing story and characters to a wider audience than ever before. How is that a bad thing? I'd also like to point out that Tolkien's original intent with writing the LoTR was to create modern day mythology. I think he of all people would understand that the point of myth isn't the details but in the act of telling it. I'm sure his renditions of Beowulf and the Arthurian legends differed a lot from the ones people hundreds of years ago told. I think the movies were as faithful as you can get them on the big screen in a way that will impact modern audiences. If people want more than that, they're more than welcome (and encouraged) to dive into the books.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart06 View Post
    I think Christopher Tolkien's reaction is a little over dramatic.
    I imagine he thinks something vital got lost in translation.

    The commercialization of LoTR has brought its amazing story and characters to a wider audience than ever before. How is that a bad thing?
    A semblance of its story and characters, and at times a highly unsubtle one. You can't really 'know' LOTR without reading it but having seen the movies, some people think they do.

    I'd also like to point out that Tolkien's original intent with writing the LoTR was to create modern day mythology.
    No, that was an ambition he'd had as a young man, something he later dismissed as 'absurd'.

    I think he of all people would understand that the point of myth isn't the details but in the act of telling it. I'm sure his renditions of Beowulf and the Arthurian legends differed a lot from the ones people hundreds of years ago told.
    I don't see that at all, as the style in which a myth is told does affect it. If you tell it like it's straightforward fantasy then that's how it comes across. If you separate it from its cultural roots, then it can lose something (this is what's happened to Arthurian myth, it became something very different to what it had once been when when French troubadours filled it with High Medieval tropes like chivalry and courtly love). Tolkien wanted something more genuine than that - he'd considered doing something with Arthurian myth himself but set it aside because its popular image was so overwhelmingly that of Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur. In much the same way, every time PJ fell back on modern fantasy tropes he was making the movies less genuine in that respect and it shows. CT does have a point, although I do think he overstates it somewhat.

    I think the movies were as faithful as you can get them on the big screen in a way that will impact modern audiences.
    I can think of several ways that's demonstrably untrue, starting with how Gimli was crudely reduced to a figure of fun and moving on from there.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    I can think of several ways that's demonstrably untrue, starting with how Gimli was crudely reduced to a figure of fun and moving on from there.
    /seconded

    They messed up Gimli
    Last edited by Isdring; Jan 20 2013 at 09:38 PM.
    The Road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone, and I must follow, if I can.
    ~Bilbo Baggins~

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post

    No, that was an ambition he'd had as a young man, something he later dismissed as 'absurd'.

    That's a bit sad and ironic, then.

    Because he DID create modern myth. Just as Greek myth influenced writing and story telling for hundreds of years after, so does LoTR. It created modern fantasy. The very same "tropes" you say ruined the movies were born from LoTR.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart06 View Post
    That's a bit sad and ironic, then.

    Because he DID create modern myth. Just as Greek myth influenced writing and story telling for hundreds of years after, so does LoTR. It created modern fantasy. The very same "tropes" you say ruined the movies were born from LoTR.
    True, true... Although while I do believe that Tolkien shaped the great things about fantasy writing (and others contributed to this, such as C.S. Lewis, Robert E. Howard and more modern writers like R.A. Salvatore), I believe other writers created the flaws and bad parts of fantasy writing...
    The Road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone, and I must follow, if I can.
    ~Bilbo Baggins~

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,025
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart06 View Post
    That's a bit sad and ironic, then.

    Because he DID create modern myth. Just as Greek myth influenced writing and story telling for hundreds of years after, so does LoTR. It created modern fantasy. The very same "tropes" you say ruined the movies were born from LoTR.
    LOTR has been much-imitated, yes, but at times the movies had the air of one of the imitations rather than the genuine article because PJ couldn't maintain a convincing 'air' of myth and legend - it thus degenerated into straightforward fantasy, most likely because he was trying a bit too hard to appeal to a modern audience and to wow everyone with sheer spectacle. (Hence the Oliphaunts being preposterously huge, for example). I'm afraid that whatever else, subtlety isn't PJ's strong suit.

    Tolkien didn't invent the whole of modern fantasy; for example, we owe the sword-and-sorcery variety to writers like Robert E Howard and his contemporaries. What Tolkien did do was to invent a certain kind of epic and to make fantasy in general a widely popular genre, inspiring a generation of writers who made sure it stayed that way. Some imitated Tolkien, but many others did not.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Himring
    Posts
    713
    Good point on the tales of Camelot, people keep making terrible versions the latest being "Merlin", no one ever gets it "right" or even seems to try, the best version was the problematic Excalibur, given this dont hold out for a version of the Silmarilion that hits the spot.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001019a8/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    "Of course I am the only elf in the village"

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    183
    If the Silmarillion is eventually made into a film, I think I would like to see Ang Lee direct it. Just from the simple fact that he has already taken an "unfilmable" book and made an incredible film out of it (Life of Pi). I feel he might be able to pull out something really breathtaking.

    Of course that is only IF the Silmarillion is ever made into a film.
    Iaralor | Riddorra | Cirnordar | Thransi | Fanion | Tarro | Otleif | Mallelleth

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by Ioralor View Post
    If the Silmarillion is eventually made into a film, I think I would like to see Ang Lee direct it. Just from the simple fact that he has already taken an "unfilmable" book and made an incredible film out of it (Life of Pi). I feel he might be able to pull out something really breathtaking.

    Of course that is only IF the Silmarillion is ever made into a film.
    I think he would be one of the best candidates indeed... Then again, making a film out of a deep psychological and absurdistic book is not at all the same as making a film out of a grand epic fantasy history... Especially not when millions of people around the world will want to lynch you when you do it wrong.
    The Road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone, and I must follow, if I can.
    ~Bilbo Baggins~

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ekeren
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    Not a bad thing from a money-making point of view but not so good from the viewpoint of someone like me who is obsessing over the original written content. It's entertaining but it's not Tolkien. That's OK.
    I agree with you on this one, but that's because it ws never meant to be Tolkien, it was Jackson, who took the stories of the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, and created his own movies out of it, and i think he did a great job so far.

    Also, if the Silmarillion is ever made into movies or a TV-series, I think they should start from the beginning of Middle-Earth, with the Books of Lost Tales, in a TV-series, and then make (a) movie(s) of the Quenta Silmarillion. And I wouldn't mind Peter Jackson doing it. Hey may not always stay true to the original lore, but I really like how he has given his own twist to the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. Except for the elves in Helm's Deep. I hate that.

    So I think, after the Hobbit Trilogy, it shoulb be laid to rest for at least another 10 years, and then see if anyone is willing to make an attempt to film the remaning lore in Tolkien's universe.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e215000000042791/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere on the world
    Posts
    88
    I believe they'd need far more than 10 years though. The Silmarillion would really have to be split into many many movies. The Silmarillion is a History, a compilation of Tales. We have stories like Beren and Luthien's, Túrin's (and by extension, Húrin, Morwen and Niënor's), Tuor's, the Nauglamír and Doriath's fall, and Eärendil's voyages and the fall of Arvernien; Each of these should be a seperate movie if they wish to preserve everything. In between those, there would be stories of many different battles, a whole load of stuff before Beren and Lúthien which has the potential for another two movies (i suppose it would be from the awakening of the Elves to the Flight of the Noldor, and the second would be from there till after the Bragollach), the War of Wrath, yet another movie (it spanned over more than 40 years if I remember correctly), Akallabêth, another movie (seeing as how there are so many events, Aldarion and Erendis, Tar-Minastir's fleet, the forging of the Rings of Power which happened at the same time). In fact, Aldarion and Erendis might even be its own movie. The Ainulindalë is kind of short, I don't believe that the movie would last more than an hour and a half, were we to start at the beginning and end off just before the elves awake. I don't think they should make that though, what with showing Ilúvatar and all. But if you round up just how much stuff there is, you'll see that there could and SHOULD be around 10 LOTR-lenth movies. And if you wonder how that's possible, remember that movies are not a narration. In the Silmarillion, before Beren and Lúthien there isn't much in the way of actual written dialogue, but in the movie they will HAVE to be present. Bilbo wrote the Silmarillion, he would only have access to such dialogue as was chosen to be recorded in the histories - there is not much in that apart from Túrin's story and Beren and Luthien's. But it is not as though no one spoke before that. There would have been a lot of dialogue- maybe not recorded in the Silmarillion, but it would have been present. I could give the example of the conversation between Andreth and Finrod one night. It is such a powerful and beautiful piece, and would be around an hour were it to be shown in the movie. There are plenty of conversations that simply can not be skipped, even if they were not present in the book. So really, the Silmarillion can never be made into a movie. it is a depressing realization, but it's the reality. Maybe we could have a TV series- but again, it would be EXTREMELY long.
    Reallyfat Trollion, Antiuca Torkoyondo. Level 84 Guard.
    Anglorion, Hunter.
    Freowen, Captain.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,025
    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyFat View Post
    So really, the Silmarillion can never be made into a movie. it is a depressing realization, but it's the reality. Maybe we could have a TV series- but again, it would be EXTREMELY long.
    Think back to when people used to make movies based on something from the Old Testament - they only ever filmed a bit at a time, like the tale of Samson (Samson and Delilah), or Moses (The Ten Commandments), and the same principle could readily be applied to the Sil. Apart from the creation itself, which is completely unfilmable, outright mythology looks hokey on the screen so it'd actually be best to leave the Valar unseen. There are tales which are self-contained, forming a discrete and epic narrative in themselves - Beren and Luthien is one, the tale of Turin another - and those could, in principle, be filmed (although the tale of Turin would end up so dark and grim that it's hard to imagine the mass audience taking to it). Much of the rest suffers from the problem of being mostly about Elves (audience problems again) or taking place over extended periods of time, so again pretty much unfilmable. You could get a solid trilogy out of it, though (with the remaining one being the Fall of Gondolin, as that has Hurin in it and so the tale could be told from his perspective and that'd be as epic as anyone could wish for, cast of thousands and all that).

    Got to think out of the box a bit. Still, ain't gonna happen before 2043 at the earliest by which time I'd be an old git, if I'm still here at all so I can't say I'm fussed about it

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere on the world
    Posts
    88
    The Fall of Gondolin would have to be from Tuor's POV, not Húrin's- he had killed himself many years before
    Reallyfat Trollion, Antiuca Torkoyondo. Level 84 Guard.
    Anglorion, Hunter.
    Freowen, Captain.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,025
    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyFat View Post
    The Fall of Gondolin would have to be from Tuor's POV, not Húrin's- he had killed himself many years before
    Beg pardon, I'm tired. Yes, of course it's 'Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin'.... *hides*

    Still, you see what I'm getting at in general, yes?

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere on the world
    Posts
    88
    Yep, I see your point. It could work. But then it wouldn't be the full Silmarillion... still, a splendid idea, especially as how those are probably the three most remembered and spoken of tales out of the entire Silmarillion. *pulls you out of hiding place* *pats head* *gives you toffee* off you go kid. xD
    Reallyfat Trollion, Antiuca Torkoyondo. Level 84 Guard.
    Anglorion, Hunter.
    Freowen, Captain.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Middle Earth, Arda
    Posts
    4,080
    The Silmarillion is far too long to be made in 1 movie. If ever done will be a lot of movies to complete the whole story. & if loyal to the books, some of them will be adult only.
    Is this Alternate Character Disorder? :


  22. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere on the world
    Posts
    88
    I do not believe so. Tolkien deliberately eschewed including such things as blatant sex in his books, and there is no example of it in the entire Silmarillion. Please don't pick out random parts like 'Níniel conceived his baby', and therefore a scene must be shown. All we are told in the books is that in spring she conceived... and that is all we need to know. The entire Silmarillion should still be PG-13, I believe. In parts like where Niënor runs through the forest and her clothes get torn could be avoided by the excuse of the flashing lightning and the speed at which she runs, and then they could simply show Túrin walking out of the shot and returning with her in his arms wrapped in a cloak. That was the only part in the entire Silmarillion with nudity.

    Unless you think they should be adult for reasons of violence, there really isn't a problem.
    Reallyfat Trollion, Antiuca Torkoyondo. Level 84 Guard.
    Anglorion, Hunter.
    Freowen, Captain.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,700
    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyFat View Post
    I do not believe so. Tolkien deliberately eschewed including such things as blatant sex in his books, and there is no example of it in the entire Silmarillion. Please don't pick out random parts like 'Níniel conceived his baby', and therefore a scene must be shown. All we are told in the books is that in spring she conceived... and that is all we need to know. The entire Silmarillion should still be PG-13, I believe. In parts like where Niënor runs through the forest and her clothes get torn could be avoided by the excuse of the flashing lightning and the speed at which she runs, and then they could simply show Túrin walking out of the shot and returning with her in his arms wrapped in a cloak. That was the only part in the entire Silmarillion with nudity.

    Unless you think they should be adult for reasons of violence, there really isn't a problem.
    I take it nudity is a problem for PG-13? I'm not familiar with US rating and censoring.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Somewhere on the world
    Posts
    88
    Indeed it is, but my point is that there is none to show except the aforementioned scene, and even in the said scene, it can be quite easily veered away from.
    Reallyfat Trollion, Antiuca Torkoyondo. Level 84 Guard.
    Anglorion, Hunter.
    Freowen, Captain.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,025
    Quote Originally Posted by ReallyFat View Post
    I do not believe so. Tolkien deliberately eschewed including such things as blatant sex in his books, and there is no example of it in the entire Silmarillion. Please don't pick out random parts like 'Níniel conceived his baby', and therefore a scene must be shown. All we are told in the books is that in spring she conceived... and that is all we need to know. The entire Silmarillion should still be PG-13, I believe. In parts like where Niënor runs through the forest and her clothes get torn could be avoided by the excuse of the flashing lightning and the speed at which she runs, and then they could simply show Túrin walking out of the shot and returning with her in his arms wrapped in a cloak. That was the only part in the entire Silmarillion with nudity.

    Unless you think they should be adult for reasons of violence, there really isn't a problem.
    The nudity is optional (she could be shown as wearing rags rather than being entirely naked, it's not essential to the plot). Scenes of battle don't seem to be a problem for PG-13 provided there's no ultraviolence so yes, in general PG-13 looks doable (just as it was for LOTR, without losing anything). The one thing that does make me wonder is the psychological horror of Turin and Nienor's situation - incest is very powerful and disturbing stuff thematically because it's taboo, and such a movie would have to pull no punches when it came to psychological impact on the audience, it's all or nothing with such a darkly tragic tale. Bit of a problem regarding the intended audience, thoigh - would a general audience or people who were simply LOTR fans really be up for something so unremittingly grim?

 

 
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload