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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Over the Top
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    709
    + Rep Sir

  2. #102
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,647
    Danke.

    To put some numbers on actual drop rates... This is from our kin - I realize YMMV...

    We have opened 384 total T2+challenge chests in BG. We have seen 2 gold drops.
    That's a 0.5% drop rate.

    This means the average player will be required to successfully complete several hundred (~230) runs in order to reasonably expect (with ~90% confidence) they will get an Epic item. I understand they want us to grind for these items, but luck is simply not in your favor with such abyssmal drop rates. Most people will probably give up well within the first 200 personal chests (100 challenge completions), no doubt.

    I am going to guesstimate that we have opened well over 500 personal T2 or T2+challenge chests in 3 and 6-man content. We have received 3 gold items to date. That's less than a 0.6% drop rate - and falling.

    I believe I read that larger-sized group content was supposed to offer better odds, so I assume we've been either really lucky with 3 and 6-mans or really unlucky in BG. In any case, such probabilities are demotivating at best.

    At our current rate, a person in our kin has to open about 450 personal Durchest T2+challenge chests in order to get a gold item with 90% probability. Say a smooth Durchest run takes you 20 minutes. That's 75 hours of non-stop Durchest farming for a 90% chance at an Epic item?

    Even 1/3 of that much time would be hard to swallow for most rational people.
    But yeah, this is our golden carrot...
    [CENTER]
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=White]The [/COLOR][/SIZE][URL="http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com"][SIZE=3][B]NOLDOR[/B][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1][COLOR=White] of Arkenstone[/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [/CENTER]

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,536
    Well, now I'm torn. I feel sorta lazy because, out of all the revamped/new stuff, all I've run is one run through Warg Pens T2C, a bunch of runs of Iorbar's Peak T2C, and a ton of full BG runs. BG loot on the whole is pretty good - though most nights I only get the currency rewards, some bounties and maybe a relic, the symbol flow is good and the teal loot drops frequently enough that people get shinies about as often as in Orthanc (either by direct looting or passing off unwanted teals to other people in the raid). I've run IP T2C maybe a dozen times now and have yet to see a single teal drop for any group member.

    It's just...troubling. T2C doesn't offer the kind of drop rates to keep people coming back, especially with damage bugged to the point where only certain group setups are viable and then only if you're extremely careful about avoid one-shots.

    So I'm torn between running this stuff now because it has loot I want and waiting on the fix that could be a long way off still.

    And Rock...if you're still reading this: is there any chance at all at getting any sort of dev response for the damage bug?

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    530
    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    especially with damage bugged to the point where only certain group setups are viable and then only if you're extremely careful about avoid one-shots.
    can you explain what you mean here? i have not seen any such bugs in any of the instances.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,536
    Have you run Warg Pens? On T2, in the boss room, there are 2 types of warg: one hits for common damage and one hits for tactical (the frostmane ones). On my champ, I swapped in some gear to get my tac mit up - it was around 55% - and did this by having the warden tank the boss while the captain and I killed the adds. The common damage wargs did expectedly high amounts of damage after getting the meat buff - a couple thousand a hit, enough that you need to be careful about who has aggro on them and careful to not get yourself killed. The sort of incoming damage on par with having someone other than a guard or warden tank a warg in the Acid trash in Orthanc - obviously you don't want light armor doing it but if defensive skills are used and you focus healing, a champ could fervour tank one of those mobs for a short time.

    However, the Frostmane wargs hit for ludicrous damage. I almost got 1-shot by one with my bubble up (so a few thousand morale on top of 10k with 55% tac mit). Is the design intent such that this instance *requires* both a second heavy class with decent morale and tac mit and incredibly careful playing on top of that?

    Is the design intent that the wraiths in Fornost water wing 1-shot any non-tank?

    Is the design intent that Dargnakh T2C is currently unbeatable because, with his fury buff tiered up, his ground-pound will 1 or 2 shot geared out level 85 tanks?

    Tactical damage and AoE common damage attacks are bugged. All that needs to happen is for Turbine to release one of the new raids (or the 6-man) with an unavoidable AoE damage component, like Dargnakh or Saruman, and you can expect people to take more notice.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Behind you.... With a knife....
    Posts
    420
    I had some issues with the wargs in warg pens, killing them off as hunter I essentially couldn't let them hit me or I'd risk a 2-shot. One frostmane hit for 8k or so I believe.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000069736/01005/signature.png]Smugo[/charsig]

  7. #107
    Ouch, I have just been doing it on my capt.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    530
    done warg pen with grd/burg/mins and champ/burg/mins without much trouble. did notice the last guys hit hard but i didn't know it was a bug. had burg keep disable on everything.

  9. #109
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    118
    The loot has been borked since release of update 9 yet here we sit weeks later STILL without a patch, GET A MOVE ON TURBINE

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    USA
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    1,536
    Quote Originally Posted by Souku View Post
    done warg pen with grd/burg/mins and champ/burg/mins without much trouble. did notice the last guys hit hard but i didn't know it was a bug. had burg keep disable on everything.
    Yeah, as I've been saying it's not *so* difficult now because the damage for most stuff is to the point where you can find some way to cleverly avoid it one-shotting you, but if the bug persists I think it's likely that something will be released that's unbeatable (apart from Dargnakh T2C which is already unbeatable, and probably Dungeons T2C where the trolls 1-shot the elves so you'd have to be very good to be able to prevent them from ever getting hit) and then people will start to raise hell about it.

    Apart from it being obvious that 1-shots like this are dumb and not really a good way to make content challenging, the reason for thinking it's a bug is that this bug existed in early RoR beta, except it was for *all* attacks - i.e. you'd 2-shot landscape mobs easily, but they could also 3-4 shot you. It was "fixed" but I think certain attacks (tactical, AoE) were left unfixed on accident.

  11. #111

    Thumbs up Updated still missing a few items

    Ok I am almost done, I just missing the following so PLEASE if you find these, take a picture and send it to me

    Iorbar's Peak: Completed.
    Seat of the Great Goblin: Brosh's Embroidered Cloak but it doesn't come out until Update 10 >_<
    Webs of the Scuttledells: Completed.
    Sammath Gûl: Completed.
    Warg Pens: Completed.
    Dungeons: Completed. Boots of the Northern Emissary & Boots of the Northern Messenger Also Drop in SH but I saw it drop in Dungeons so I added to Dungeons loot table.
    Sword-hall: Completed.
    Barad Guldur: Completed.

    Class Gold Pieces:
    Missing:
    Cloak of the Exemplary Burglar
    Figurine of the Exemplary Champion
    Cloak of the Malledhrim Warden

    Thanks all for the help

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    1,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    FWIW, they have been locking people out of the content they like playing since CD. This is nothing new and apparently the long-standing belief is that it served a purpose - which would primarily be to get people to play other content - as well as not be able to farm some of the better loot in the game. What good are the 3-mans if no one plays them?
    Agreed on the point that people have almost always been locked out temporarily of - mostly - raid-content after doing it once. In CD tho it has mostly been due to the fact that it just was impossible to do the whole ini within one evening. So you actually helped groups by not resetting the instance that quickly. Same for many a raid out there like DN etc.

    However the truth is that there's simply no alternative to raiding BG at the moment. Even BG is old, the 6men are old too. If you lock people out of content you have to give them alternatives to spend their time. And let's be honest about that fact: 3mans are no alternative to a raid.

    You complain about content being too easy to play and high-end-gear too cheap to farm. But if you say that locking players out of content is no news then let me break it to you: easy group/raid-content is no news either. Talking about turtles, swordhalls, grand stairs, Draigoch. And not all of that stuff ever had any ID at all. Remember the days when you could repeat hardmodes on 6mans as often as you wanted? So if you wanna go back to full amount of difficult group-/raid-content you will have to go back to times of SoA, which is years ago. This game has moved on since then.

    And I still believe that up to a point content regulates itself. After most people got their symbols they will start to play other content because Durchest is only attractive as long as you need symbols. After that, it looses a lot of its attraction. It was maybe 6 days after durchest-farming began that I mostly found full bg-raids looking for companions. Many a player I know stopped farming durchest already and now wants to do full BG. Trouble is, that all the other content is not attractive on the drop-chance-side. People are like that: Unless they know that there's a real chance to get anything out of content, they won't play it. I've done SG twice. It's as entertaining as ever (not much that is). But on 65 it rewarded me alright. It does not at all now. So why run it again and again? Same for the old and new 3mans. I can't see any other content but BG, Helegrod and Skraids that are attractive that way these days. I suppose that's a shame, but no new ini-cluster has been that unattractive as the erebor one ever. I guess Fornost and Annuminas have been worse on the scaleable-side, but that's a different story. So until today I always felt that I got fairly rewarded for playing high end content in general. Now I don't - except for mentioned inis.

    So the main problem is not that you get too much too easily out of Durchest (I've done 5 runs in a row without getting one single item. I don't think it's balanced that badly), but that you get bloody well nothing out of everything else. Maybe Durchest needs a little nerf indeed, I might agree with you there. But mostly the other content needs quite a boost to become attractive. If you put a lock on Durchest without improving drop-chances and loot in general everywhere else big time, we will go back to no endgame at all. Respectivly to an endgame that only exists in theory.
    Last edited by GithlithMonaghan; Jan 09 2013 at 11:15 AM.

  13. #113
    I think the reason for no locks was because those who raid BG knew the strat, same strat just that mobs hit harder since they are 85. I agreed with Turbine for not adding locks would have been kind of waste if they did added locks since no one would raid.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
    Ok I am almost done, I just missing the following so PLEASE if you find these, take a picture and send it to me

    Iorbar's Peak: Completed.
    Seat of the Great Goblin: Brosh's Embroidered Cloak but it doesn't come out until Update 10 >_<
    Webs of the Scuttledells: Completed.
    Sammath Gûl: Completed.
    Warg Pens: Completed.
    Dungeons: Completed. Boots of the Northern Emissary & Boots of the Northern Messenger Also Drop in SH but I saw it drop in Dungeons so I added to Dungeons loot table.
    Sword-hall: Completed.
    Barad Guldur: Completed.

    Class Gold Pieces:
    Missing:
    Cloak of the Exemplary Burglar
    Figurine of the Exemplary Champion
    Cloak of the Malledhrim Warden

    Thanks all for the help
    Great work with everything

    Do you or anyone else have a similar list for all the other scaled instances, e.g. School/Library, GB, Helegrod, etc? I realize people pretty much only run BG and the new 3-mans these days, but I'm very interested in the others as well (for my own personal masterlist).

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaphael View Post
    Great work with everything

    Do you or anyone else have a similar list for all the other scaled instances, e.g. School/Library, GB, Helegrod, etc? I realize people pretty much only run BG and the new 3-mans these days, but I'm very interested in the others as well (for my own personal masterlist).
    I have a helegrod one but sorting out picture to post. Sch/Lib drops the same loot but just scaled and GB, no clue but I can run a few to see

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    107
    Hmm well, maybe this is in the wrong place but it is about Mirk loot and you seem to have the attention of a Blue so I'm gunna hijack/add my bit in here...

    I am wondering about SG loot but on its original 65 setting. I'm running an alt through Mirkwood with a kinnie and we're about to hit 65 and are thinking that some SG loot might be tasty (Guard and RK so Ril Mir and Glass Flask would be lovely hehe). We do T2 but nothing other than Bounty plus either a relic or ixp rune drops at each chest for all 6 members. We did all 4 bosses but no loot.

    I'm not a whinger, we all agree that it was fun anyhow but I'd really like to know whether this was epic unluck or the way it is to be. Are the shinies still there when running 65? If they're not I'll admit that this would alter how I view the scaling of instances. I feel that this is a 65 instance and there should be 65 rewards available. My 85s of course love running the retro instances, especially now we are seeing more scaled. I'm just not sure how I'd feel if this was at detriment to the earlier game.

    If anyone can answer my question there'd be tea and cake of course

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Maendae View Post
    Hmm well, maybe this is in the wrong place but it is about Mirk loot and you seem to have the attention of a Blue so I'm gunna hijack/add my bit in here...

    I am wondering about SG loot but on its original 65 setting. I'm running an alt through Mirkwood with a kinnie and we're about to hit 65 and are thinking that some SG loot might be tasty (Guard and RK so Ril Mir and Glass Flask would be lovely hehe). We do T2 but nothing other than Bounty plus either a relic or ixp rune drops at each chest for all 6 members. We did all 4 bosses but no loot.

    I'm not a whinger, we all agree that it was fun anyhow but I'd really like to know whether this was epic unluck or the way it is to be. Are the shinies still there when running 65? If they're not I'll admit that this would alter how I view the scaling of instances. I feel that this is a 65 instance and there should be 65 rewards available. My 85s of course love running the retro instances, especially now we are seeing more scaled. I'm just not sure how I'd feel if this was at detriment to the earlier game.

    If anyone can answer my question there'd be tea and cake of course
    The old shinies are gone, but the scaled versions of the new items should be dropping at lvl 65. So, the glimmering beryl prism (which is better than glass-flask, but a lot rarer), the agility earring, and the gold items as well.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    107
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_Pan View Post
    The old shinies are gone, but the scaled versions of the new items should be dropping at lvl 65. So, the glimmering beryl prism (which is better than glass-flask, but a lot rarer), the agility earring, and the gold items as well.
    Ah! Thanks for answering that.

    I'll admit to being a little disappointed. I'll not stop to grind too many instances at this level for the rewards preferring to continue leveling and keep landscape level relevant (I'll not get the xp disabler but that's a different story). I think that all 6 of us not getting any loot in a T2 instance is a bit lame to be honest but especially because of the circumstances; we're 65 we want to hit the instances as they are introduced in the epic line, hopefully gain a shiny or two but continue along the path to 85. While I don't expect automatic epic loot so to speak I do consider grinding gear more an end game activity, especially for an alt. I think in future when leveling up alts my kinnies may be more of the opinion that the instances may as well wait til end game which makes me a sad panda. Just my thoughts

    Peter Pan I believe I owe you tea and cake, if you find yourself in Lancashire, UK then I will happily deliver but until then I hope some pretty internets will suffice:

    Last edited by Maendae; Jan 11 2013 at 10:21 AM. Reason: Picture editing fail

  19. #119
    That looks so yummy

  20. #120
    Helegrod loot List added.
    http://horizon.corplaunch.com/forums....php?t=9020409

    Missing burg cloak and champion pocket Item.

  21. #121
    Any champions won the pocket item or any burg won the cloak?
    These two items are the only thing I am missing to complete the loot table.
    I would be adding the rest of helegrod today.

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
    Any champions won the pocket item or any burg won the cloak?
    These two items are the only thing I am missing to complete the loot table.
    I would be adding the rest of helegrod today.
    Blade of the Exemplary Loremaster does not have an up to date picture either.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaphael View Post
    Blade of the Exemplary Loremaster does not have an up to date picture either.
    Oh a LM has it on our server but he has not be online since he got it >_<

  24. #124
    Still missing 3 items to update.
    LM sword gold piece
    Burg cloak gold piece
    and the champion's pocket item gold piece
    btw Turbine why shield for capts -_-
    I hate 1handers on my capt.

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
    Posts
    3,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
    I hate 1handers on my capt.
    I love 1H on my cappy. My halberd was my 6th out of 7 LIs made and I'm still adjusting to using it, even though I only use it for DPS, haha.

 

 
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