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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    On the bright side, you now have a shield to switch to if your first one breaks, and plenty of fodder for messing with your GLFF.

    (I obtained my second shield last night as well, and have been having fun with Silverlode's GLFF. )
    Nice! I usually stay out of GLFF unless fools are spouting off misconceptions of the game's mechanics. But this time I had to link mine. Pointed out that one was busted up whilst the other wasn't when someone congratulated me for learning to link the same item twice. I recalled to glff that one time I made a D&D fighter who dual-wielded Dwarven Axe-bucklers. At least I didn't try to sell my gold, like a kinmate tried for bout a week, heh.

  2. #77
    RockX is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    As has been mentioned, the Legendary quality pieces which drop from the scaling instances are not Unique. Things can get pretty ugly when we have scaling gear set to be Unique.

    As to the drop rates, what's in the chests, etc. I am actively making adjustments to the DG and Erebor spaces. While I can't guarantee only one member gets an Incomparable piece of gear on Tier 2 sort of thing with the new looting system, I can make sure the average group will see one. This is not currently the case on Live. I'm also reviewing the LI related items being dropped, and making adjustments.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    As has been mentioned, the Legendary quality pieces which drop from the scaling instances are not Unique. Things can get pretty ugly when we have scaling gear set to be Unique.

    As to the drop rates, what's in the chests, etc. I am actively making adjustments to the DG and Erebor spaces. While I can't guarantee only one member gets an Incomparable piece of gear on Tier 2 sort of thing with the new looting system, I can make sure the average group will see one. This is not currently the case on Live. I'm also reviewing the LI related items being dropped, and making adjustments.
    Thank you. Even chances of increase the drop rate for that crystal of remembrance

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    As has been mentioned, the Legendary quality pieces which drop from the scaling instances are not Unique. Things can get pretty ugly when we have scaling gear set to be Unique.

    As to the drop rates, what's in the chests, etc. I am actively making adjustments to the DG and Erebor spaces. While I can't guarantee only one member gets an Incomparable piece of gear on Tier 2 sort of thing with the new looting system, I can make sure the average group will see one. This is not currently the case on Live. I'm also reviewing the LI related items being dropped, and making adjustments.
    Take this piece of advice however you will, but at least consider it: if you're changing things, don't "nerf" a single thing. For the first time in a LONG time, I haven't heard people complaining about repeatedly running the same content. I know it's a "bridge" from one packet of content to another, but at least people find incentive in running it thus. If you make it harder to get anything (harder than it truly already really is - i've been on plenty of runs where no one gets ANYTHING) then you'll start to hear more complaining. The people that are complaining about high drop rates are the ones that grind out things in order to make cash, of which that type is not really going to move forward this game. People will certainly have their share of things they complain about no matter what, but if you're making changes, make things drop more plentifully across the board and especially so in places you want to see run more often. I have no problem varying loot...make scalable things drop more seals and such in places like Annuminas, Fornost, Great Barrows and the like, without improving the loot quality. The quantity should never decrease. I STILL haven't gotten a symbol or a "gold unique" piece from running all the new instances and scalable DG, but I'm not upset. If you "nerf" it and make it even less likely for me to get one, I know people like me will be upset that there are others who seem to ooze luck, have no life and look for every shortcut imaginable and seem to get rewarded while others who play for fun are told, "look, we have to make it tougher to get stuff so we'll keep a small portion of the public from complaining louder than you". If you want to keep that lot happy, then introduce something new that they'll grind themselves silly for, but don't take steps backward.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardineck View Post
    Take this piece of advice however you will, but at least consider it: if you're changing things, don't "nerf" a single thing. For the first time in a LONG time, I haven't heard people complaining about repeatedly running the same content. I know it's a "bridge" from one packet of content to another, but at least people find incentive in running it thus. If you make it harder to get anything (harder than it truly already really is - i've been on plenty of runs where no one gets ANYTHING) then you'll start to hear more complaining. The people that are complaining about high drop rates are the ones that grind out things in order to make cash, of which that type is not really going to move forward this game. People will certainly have their share of things they complain about no matter what, but if you're making changes, make things drop more plentifully across the board and especially so in places you want to see run more often. I have no problem varying loot...make scalable things drop more seals and such in places like Annuminas, Fornost, Great Barrows and the like, without improving the loot quality. The quantity should never decrease. I STILL haven't gotten a symbol or a "gold unique" piece from running all the new instances and scalable DG, but I'm not upset. If you "nerf" it and make it even less likely for me to get one, I know people like me will be upset that there are others who seem to ooze luck, have no life and look for every shortcut imaginable and seem to get rewarded while others who play for fun are told, "look, we have to make it tougher to get stuff so we'll keep a small portion of the public from complaining louder than you". If you want to keep that lot happy, then introduce something new that they'll grind themselves silly for, but don't take steps backward.
    +rep. Well said.

  6. #81
    to RockX
    Does that mean a higher statistical chance of golden and teal items per run than is currently the case on live server? It reads as if you want to decrease the chances, but then you say that an average drop rate of 1/3 for 3mans and 1/6 for 6mans will probably/maybe/likely/perhaps happen, which is an actual improvement from my point of view. I have for example done 100+ runs to Dungeons, but I have only seen two teal journals and one teal ring.

    to Ardineck
    In one sentence you want everything to stay the same drop chance wise
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardineck View Post
    if you're changing things, don't "nerf" a single thing.
    in another you want it improved for certain instances.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardineck View Post
    make things drop more plentifully across the board and especially so in places you want to see run more often.
    Then later you want it improved for yourself, but not those who grind for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardineck View Post
    If you "nerf" it and make it even less likely for me to get one, I know people like me will be upset that there are others who seem to ooze luck, have no life and look for every shortcut imaginable and seem to get rewarded while others who play for fun...
    I am entirely uncertain what your opinion is and what your exact arguments are. Could you clarify please.

  7. #82
    I think he just doesn't want no more bounties.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nokor View Post

    to Ardineck
    In one sentence you want everything to stay the same drop chance wise

    in another you want it improved for certain instances.

    Then later you want it improved for yourself, but not those who grind for it.

    I am entirely uncertain what your opinion is and what your exact arguments are. Could you clarify please.
    RockX says he's making changes. I won't begrudge a dev from doing that. I'm simply stating that I'm hoping that the changes do not reduce the chances in any way or in any instance. "Nerf" in this sense is a reduction, so I plainly ask that nothing be "nerfed" and if any changes are to be made, then increase the chances, not reduce them. If, in the future, they wish other loot to have a reduced chance, then implement that "nerf" at that time, but not with the current loot tables. I don't say that I want it to stay the same, but that it should at least stay the same, not be reduced. If they wanted people to run something other than Durchest, they should make it profitable to go elsewhere, not reduce the chances something drops from what it is live. I don't say that I want it improved for myself and not those who grind for it. Those people "farming" it are not grinding - they are increasing the number of chances they have at the RNG and those asking for the chance to be reduced for others are not doing so because it isn't as fun, they're doing so because prices on things are dropping from what they were when the stuff went live and they liked rolling in cash. It's not for anyone's benefit other than THEIR own, but it seems from the way you worded it that you'd like to imply that I'm out for myself, which is not the case. Increasing the chances benefits everyone. Leaving them the same is amenable to most. Reducing them only benefits those with a stockpile or those who want to play the market. I think in the first passage I was clear enough. I hope this makes my position more clear to you.
    Last edited by Ardineck; Jan 06 2013 at 09:09 AM.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardineck View Post
    Take this piece of advice however you will, but at least consider it: if you're changing things, don't "nerf" a single thing. For the first time in a LONG time, I haven't heard people complaining about repeatedly running the same content. I know it's a "bridge" from one packet of content to another, but at least people find incentive in running it thus. If you make it harder to get anything (harder than it truly already really is - i've been on plenty of runs where no one gets ANYTHING) then you'll start to hear more complaining. The people that are complaining about high drop rates are the ones that grind out things in order to make cash, of which that type is not really going to move forward this game. People will certainly have their share of things they complain about no matter what, but if you're making changes, make things drop more plentifully across the board and especially so in places you want to see run more often. I have no problem varying loot...make scalable things drop more seals and such in places like Annuminas, Fornost, Great Barrows and the like, without improving the loot quality. The quantity should never decrease. I STILL haven't gotten a symbol or a "gold unique" piece from running all the new instances and scalable DG, but I'm not upset. If you "nerf" it and make it even less likely for me to get one, I know people like me will be upset that there are others who seem to ooze luck, have no life and look for every shortcut imaginable and seem to get rewarded while others who play for fun are told, "look, we have to make it tougher to get stuff so we'll keep a small portion of the public from complaining louder than you". If you want to keep that lot happy, then introduce something new that they'll grind themselves silly for, but don't take steps backward.
    +rep

    Agreed. Playing for fun can be tough these days, and yes there is a balance to be achieved. I like a challenge, its nice to wipe on a raid 3 or 4 times, then figure out how to improve and finish it. Its not nice to complete a really really easy raid 1000's of times and get nothing.

  10. #85
    I think I am almost done with the table list. I have been going to bigger servers to check what they have on their AH

  11. #86
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    The biggest mistake with this update was having t1 and t2 share the same loot table. This (as should have been foreseen) resulted in people farming t1 instances with almost no incentive to run t2 instances. Some items should be shared between the tiers, but the top quality items should really be restricted to the t2 and t2c chests, as it has been in the past. Call me an elitist, call me whatever you want, but it's really nice having a certain item, and knowing that you got that item from lots of hard work with your raid. Having the exact same top quality items as people farming t1 instances for hours feels wrong. Also, as a general rule, gold quality items should have a 0% chance to drop in any t1 instance.

  12. #87
    I think it was nice that they shared the same loot table, yes it result in others farming T1 but mostly Durchest but the good loot is a rare drop to see on T1. I think they just need to change the drop rate on T2 for the rest of us.

  13. #88
    RockX is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
    I think it was nice that they shared the same loot table, yes it result in others farming T1 but mostly Durchest but the good loot is a rare drop to see on T1. I think they just need to change the drop rate on T2 for the rest of us.
    This is pretty much the current plan, to adjust the drop rates on the rare/incomparable pieces between T1 and T2, as well as make some adjustments on the chances to get LI related stuff. Challenge chests will see some more stuff on them as well, to flesh them out a bit more. Naturally, everything is subject to change, your mileage may vary, etc.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    This is pretty much the current plan, to adjust the drop rates on the rare/incomparable pieces between T1 and T2, as well as make some adjustments on the chances to get LI related stuff. Challenge chests will see some more stuff on them as well, to flesh them out a bit more. Naturally, everything is subject to change, your mileage may vary, etc.
    Figure that what ya was planing
    any news on how OD gear would be scaled to?

  15. #90
    RockX is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
    Figure that what ya was planing
    any news on how OD gear would be scaled to?
    Not yet, that's something I'll discuss further once we get closer to Update 10.

  16. #91
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    Ok, well if t1 and t2 will continue to share the same loot table, then my second biggest gripe is the lack of locks. Even if it's a daily or bi-weekly, something should be done to encourage people to run the instance as a whole. I understand that locks don't work well with scaling instances, but loot locks work pretty well with them (skirms and hele) don't they. Run Durchest as many times as you want, but you only get loot once a day. That being said, the loot drop rate difference needs to be a lot bigger between t1 and t2, regardless if locks are implemented or not. Imo, the t1 drop rate for anything worth mentioning, should be at the very least a fifth of what it is on t2. Incentivise people so that they're aim is to progressively run harder content, instead leaving the incentive at t1 Durchest, where the rest of the group will leave as well. I still stand by my statement that the very top quality jewellery should be t2 (c) only, but it doesn't seem like this will be the case.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    This is pretty much the current plan, to adjust the drop rates on the rare/incomparable pieces between T1 and T2, as well as make some adjustments on the chances to get LI related stuff. Challenge chests will see some more stuff on them as well, to flesh them out a bit more. Naturally, everything is subject to change, your mileage may vary, etc.

    Are we going to have to wait for update 10 for all the adjustments you mentioned or can we expect them any sooner than that?

  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by ROCOMAN View Post
    Ok, well if t1 and t2 will continue to share the same loot table, then my second biggest gripe is the lack of locks. Even if it's a daily or bi-weekly, something should be done to encourage people to run the instance as a whole. I understand that locks don't work well with scaling instances, but loot locks work pretty well with them (skirms and hele) don't they. Run Durchest as many times as you want, but you only get loot once a day. That being said, the loot drop rate difference needs to be a lot bigger between t1 and t2, regardless if locks are implemented or not. Imo, the t1 drop rate for anything worth mentioning, should be at the very least a fifth of what it is on t2. Incentivise people so that they're aim is to progressively run harder content, instead leaving the incentive at t1 Durchest, where the rest of the group will leave as well. I still stand by my statement that the very top quality jewellery should be t2 (c) only, but it doesn't seem like this will be the case.
    Well the top gold class pieces are higher to drop on t2 cm. I do agreed with Ardi, they should have at least one gold piece drop on t2 and most teal and purple on t1, no gold ones. I have heard that a few people get their gold class items on T1.

  19. #94
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    Not yet, that's something I'll discuss further once we get closer to Update 10.
    Thanks for 'confirming' scaled OD will go live with U10!!! You're the best Rock!

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhoris_they_spider View Post
    Thanks for 'confirming' scaled OD will go live with U10!!! You're the best Rock!
    I think we all figure it out after reading the Producer's letter
    but was trying to let him slide with that

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    This is pretty much the current plan, to adjust the drop rates on the rare/incomparable pieces between T1 and T2, as well as make some adjustments on the chances to get LI related stuff. Challenge chests will see some more stuff on them as well, to flesh them out a bit more. Naturally, everything is subject to change, your mileage may vary, etc.
    This did not actually clear anything up, I am still uncertain as to how these changes will be in relevance to current drop chances. My question to you, RockX, still remains - Is this an actual increase in drop chances for T2 and T2C chests?

    If possible clarify for both class specific and stat specific items.
    Last edited by Nokor; Jan 08 2013 at 01:34 AM.

  22. #97
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    My only gripe is the new loot system, i hate it.

    I wont farm Durchest but i did 50 runs over a week of DoDG and got sod all, yet a fellow kinnie got 4 crystals in there 6 runs, and a fellow kinnie got 2 CoR back to back from 3 runs.

    How on earth is this loot system working things out?

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    My only gripe is the new loot system, i hate it.

    I wont farm Durchest but i did 50 runs over a week of DoDG and got sod all, yet a fellow kinnie got 4 crystals in there 6 runs, and a fellow kinnie got 2 CoR back to back from 3 runs.

    How on earth is this loot system working things out?
    I did 50+ HoC runs before I got an anvil, other people got one on their 1st run.

    I'm still on the fence about the new loot system but it isnt so greatly different from before.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROCOMAN View Post
    Ok, well if t1 and t2 will continue to share the same loot table, then my second biggest gripe is the lack of locks. Even if it's a daily or bi-weekly, something should be done to encourage people to run the instance as a whole. I understand that locks don't work well with scaling instances, but loot locks work pretty well with them (skirms and hele) don't they. Run Durchest as many times as you want, but you only get loot once a day. That being said, the loot drop rate difference needs to be a lot bigger between t1 and t2, regardless if locks are implemented or not. Imo, the t1 drop rate for anything worth mentioning, should be at the very least a fifth of what it is on t2. Incentivise people so that they're aim is to progressively run harder content, instead leaving the incentive at t1 Durchest, where the rest of the group will leave as well. I still stand by my statement that the very top quality jewellery should be t2 (c) only, but it doesn't seem like this will be the case.
    I do not agree. Just a few days after U9 went live, people started playing BG as a whole because they no longer needed symbols but more likely teal gear-items. That Durchest-thing never hurt anybody either. Getting more symbols into the game isn't that bad since we all pretty much expect 1st ages to come along with U10. So what's the problem?

    Locking people out of the content they like playing? I can't see any good reason to do so. Alright, there's a certain amount of items being spread over the servers. Most of these items are pretty mediocre though. So even there: No bigger problem now, is there? So what would happen if you put a lock on Durchest? People would just play less. They wouldn't play the other stuff, they just wouldn't play Durchest anymore. Is that what Turbine is supposed to want? I don't believe so. And if you really want to improve your char, you have to run all the other instances as well.

    But there's the main problem: Compared to Durchest, loot in the 3mans and 6mans is just way too lousy. I recently asked for the spider-ini's cloak for tactical classes. What answer did I get? "Are you kidding us? Nobody runs that instance!" Nobody was able to show me that cloak either. So that's a truth out there. Another time I was looking for a tank for the great goblin. Nobody answered. After a while some guy IMed me and said: "You won't find anybody to run that ini with you. It's too difficult considered the big chance to gain nothing at all out of there." I waited for another 15 minutes or something, kept looking too, but the guy was right. I had no chance. So I started looking for Iorbar's Peak. It just took 10 seconds and I had at least 3-4 people asking to join me.

    So we got the huge problem that only Iorbar's peak and BG are being played out of the "new" content. Iorbar because it's easy and BG because loot is alright there. Maybe some people also play SG because it's easy too, but on my good oal german server people can't see that ini no more.
    Last edited by GithlithMonaghan; Jan 08 2013 at 09:58 AM.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by GithlithMonaghan View Post
    I do not agree. Just a few days after U9 went live, people started playing BG as a whole because they no longer needed symbols but more likely teal gear-items. That Durchest-thing never hurt anybody either. Getting more symbols into the game isn't that bad since we all pretty much expect 1st ages to come along with U10. So what's the problem?
    The problem is it's silly easy and lots of people felt no need to run anything else. There is no challenge to Durchest T1 and I personally feel funneling people through it ad nauseum is just plain bad for the game - loot aside.

    Quote Originally Posted by GithlithMonaghan View Post
    Locking people out of the content they like playing? I can't see any good reason to do so.
    FWIW, they have been locking people out of the content they like playing since CD. This is nothing new and apparently the long-standing belief is that it served a purpose - which would primarily be to get people to play other content - as well as not be able to farm some of the better loot in the game. What good are the 3-mans if no one plays them?

    If locks serve no purpose, then why does every other legitimate raid still have them?

    If there were locks, perhaps more people would venture past Durchest? How is this bad? Even a daily lock would serve that purpose. Silly faceroll skraids still have weekly loot locks. Why are they there?

    Quote Originally Posted by GithlithMonaghan View Post
    Alright, there's a certain amount of items being spread over the servers. Most of these items are pretty mediocre though. So even there: No bigger problem now, is there? So what would happen if you put a lock on Durchest? People would just play less. They wouldn't play the other stuff, they just wouldn't play Durchest anymore. Is that what Turbine is supposed to want? I don't believe so. And if you really want to improve your char, you have to run all the other instances as well.
    Is that how it's gone over the years? What about alts? What about grinding 3 or 6-mans for teals and other LI-related desirables? People only like Durchest because it's a fast track to some decent (sell-able) loot. If they really liked the content, they wouldn't be pugging T1 runs all day long. Your excuse strikes me as little more than a plea for the vindication of faceroll loot farming, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by GithlithMonaghan View Post
    But there's the main problem: Compared to Durchest, loot in the 3mans and 6mans is just way too lousy. I recently asked for the spider-ini's cloak for tactical classes. What answer did I get? "Are you kidding us? Nobody runs that instance!" Nobody was able to show me that cloak either. So that's a truth out there. Another time I was looking for a tank for the great goblin. Nobody answered. After a while some guy IMed me and said: "You won't find anybody to run that ini with you. It's too difficult considered the big chance to gain nothing at all out of there." I waited for another 15 minutes or something, kept looking too, but the guy was right. I had no chance. So I started looking for Iorbar's Peak. It just took 10 seconds and I had at least 3-4 people asking to join me.
    Agreed, rewards should be better in the more challenging content. But Turbine has dropped that ball regularly since the Moria instance loot revamp made GS farming the only way to go. Still, there is desirable loot to be had in most of the content. Depends on the class and depends how much of a challenge you're willing to face to get it. Great Gob and Scuttledells are not that hard. People just don't have the incentive to spend the time there, so they don't. Path of least resistance always wins, right devs? Especially when loot odds are borked.



    Not to be rude, but this was just another big ball drop on the itemization front. Big time. I appreciate RockX's willingness to discuss things with us, but I'd much rather he show his competence as a developer rather than as a community representative... It strikes me as either fairly simple math that was applied very very wrong or else it's a big red flag showcasing a severe out-of-touchness between dev and players (again).
    Last edited by Southpa; Jan 08 2013 at 11:35 AM.
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