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  1. #1

    Captains in 3-man content

    I've largely been a solo player and pretty new to grouping on my captain. I've gotten my captain up to 85 and have the Hytbolt healing set. I'm hoping to get my feet wet with how the captain performs in groups in the new 3-mans coming up and then graduate to 6-mans and raids.

    I'm trying to figure out what my main role in 3-mans will be. How do captains fare in 3-man content? Is it best to go in as a tank, healer or some hybrid of the 2? Is the ettenmore armor (the one with the RC cd on it) necessary to be a good healer or the Hytbolt set well enough? Should I save up my coins to get the LtC armor?

    If I do serve the healer role (without the Ettenmore armour), is it best to be HoH or LoM traited to be most effective in the group?

    Any other tips or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    I'm curious to see what advice people will post on this thread. I've been experimenting in skirmishes trying to figure out different Captain builds. I'd like to get my character up to a competition level build. Too bad the Ettenmores are kinda botched... oh well, PvE is always good.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikuma View Post
    I've largely been a solo player and pretty new to grouping on my captain. I've gotten my captain up to 85 and have the Hytbolt healing set. I'm hoping to get my feet wet with how the captain performs in groups in the new 3-mans coming up and then graduate to 6-mans and raids.

    I'm trying to figure out what my main role in 3-mans will be. How do captains fare in 3-man content? Is it best to go in as a tank, healer or some hybrid of the 2? Is the ettenmore armor (the one with the RC cd on it) necessary to be a good healer or the Hytbolt set well enough? Should I save up my coins to get the LtC armor?

    If I do serve the healer role (without the Ettenmore armour), is it best to be HoH or LoM traited to be most effective in the group?

    Any other tips or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
    Best to go either tank or healer, mixing doesn't sound like it'd work... well I say that but perhaps you could heal-kite Sword-Halls while mostly stacking vit.

    Healing's probably easiest, as Captain tanking has difficulties under certain circumstances, mostly with regards to our low max # of targets on our threat skills and a lack of a threat leech. Our survivability is just fine. Like I tanked Iobar's Peak just fine in BR, that was well suited to me as a captain; not too many badguys on screen at once. Having a little experience in there healing on my capt, Goblin-town looked easy enough to cappy tank until the very end, where a ton (i.e. way exceeding your max # of targets on skills) of little goblins that you can't kill for challenge swarm y'all. They don't really hurt much, so as a cappy tank maybe your group could just deal with some being on the healer--you might even be able to help the healer survive the numerous tiny minions with IHW, VS, WoC, inspire, even SotD if you like. I don't know nothin about Scuttledells or Warg Pens. Sword Halls definitely has more targets than you can handle while tanking unless you have fast DPS in a non-challenge run; but like I said, I'm theorizing a way to kite that as healer & tank and have your 2 DPS killing things off 1 by 1 and have revealing mark on w/e boss they're on. Wouldn't want a healer while you are doing that if they're gonna outheal & outaggro you--maybe a DPS-focused LM that could thow BoH or WL in a pinch. EDIT: Now that I think of it, that's probably already been done before. See I didn't do a whole lot of instancing back in Mirkwood days. Lots of GB trios and sch/libs for S3Ms, lots of GS, a smattering of other stuff.

    You don't have to have 3 Perseverance from the moors to be an effective 3man healer. Yeah, it'd probably be the best tool you could get in Sword Halls or something, but not so much Iobar's Peak or Goblin-town. I mean, your group could kill the adds fast enough in either of those to get RC's off in less than 15s each time, but if they're killing that fast then it's on Faceroll Farm status and you could probably heal it in Draigoch gear. HytHeal set is just fine. HytCharge is gonna be just fine too.

    No, don't heal in LoM. That's silly. This isn't 2011. Slap on Fellowship brother, Now for Wrath, RO, and whatever else you desire. I'm gonna heal these 3mans traited 5r/2b because from the gander I took in BR, they were way easy for me and my crew. No need to overheal.
    Last edited by Omen_Kaizer; Dec 16 2012 at 08:42 PM.
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  4. #4
    The short answer is that captains make great main healers and great main tanks in 3-mans. For the easier 3-mans, you can also act as main-dps.

    I like to look at 3-mans like 6-mans, but with half the players*: each player needs to assume the role of 2 players in the typical 6-man. If you are set up for healing, a captain can act as the main healer plus dps (kinda replacing the minstrel+captain combo in a 6-man). In a LtC build, you can be a dps-heals hybrid, (replacing a minstrel-champion combo), but then you'd want a teammate with some off-healing skills (warden, burg, minstrel, rk, captain, etc). Setup as a tank, you can be a main-tank/off-heal combo. Captains are great for 3-mans.

    Some fun 3-man group combinations, off the top of my head:
    • Captain/warden/champion (or captain/warden/lore-master). Perfect combination of heals/tank/dps.
    • Captain/burg/guardian. Same deal, but with a little less AoE dps.
    • Captain/minstrel/hunter (or captain/minstrel/rune-keeper). Solid tanking captain situation.
    • Captain/champion/champion (or captain/champion/burg). Go LtC and kill everything before it can damage you.
    • Captain/captain/captain. The essence of perfection (not much dps, but you won't die, though )

    Groups for 3-mans are supposed to be flexible.

    I think if you trait for HoH, the Hytbolt set will be more than adequate. We'll see how many defeat responses you can get in the new 3-mans soon enough.

    *Well, that sounds kinda obvious, but I think I'm making some sort of point here.
    Last edited by dietlbomb; Dec 16 2012 at 08:49 PM.
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    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  5. #5
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    I'm very slow at leveling, so I haven't hit 85 yet and thus haven't looked at the new armour sets yet. I am currently running with a hybrid set of Orthanc raid gear, half the healing set and half the DPS set, with an alternate set of random high vitality stuff from skirmishes for when I get to tank. The ettenmoors sets are not required at all. I have heard they have some neat benefits, but I've never set foot in the moors and have been doing just fine.

    As for the captain's role in a 3-man: if an ideal small fellowship is a tank-healer-DPS, a captain can fill any of these roles if you have the other two solid. You'll need to retrait a for each role. The trait lines match up with each role pretty cleanly:
    LoM (yellow) for more aggro = tank.
    HoH (blue) for more heals = healer.
    LtC (red) for more damage and crits = DPS.

    I have experience with all three roles and some very strange class combinations in the Orthanc 3-mans. All of which were doable (some easier than others and not always successful with T2 challenges). If you want to tank, however, that is where you will typically find the most resistance when looking for a pick up group. I find that random people are reluctant to bring a captain along as a tank, and thus I only get to do that role with my friends that know I can do it (albeit not as cleanly as a guardian or warden would due to limited number of targets on multi target aggro skills).

  6. #6
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    Having healed everything except for scuttledells (could not find a group for that one on BR), we're pretty solid in all of the 3 mans, and having Hytbold Healer + the usual might/crit gear will more than suffice for both healing and DPS traitings - the only thing that really needs to differ is the emblem.

    So why use Hytbold Healer armor for DPSing? Aside from the one bonus on Charge for SL Damage (which would be nice), Healer has more might and crit on it, and more power, than Charge does. Stats alone make this the one set to get from Hytbold, if you don't want to grind for any others. Oddly enough, the BG armor (statwise) looks pretty good for DPSing - it's got insane amounts of physical mastery on it, so could lead to some rather interesting parses once U9 goes live. This is assuming that it's going live as how it exists on BR.

    As far as tanking goes, get the Hytbold Leader set, and start stacking vit, or you're going to be too squishy for it. You will (most likely) need LIs with relics tailored for tanking.

    With 6 mans, I would suspect that RoR gave us enough healing tools that main healing a 6 man is possible with a captain, and maybe some of the best of us (healing wise) might be able to main heal a raid. We need those of us that like to push the envelope to do so.

    Same is probably true for tanking.
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  7. #7
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    I wouldn't bet too much on seeing Captains mainhealing raids yet, perhaps a setup with 2 Captains and 1 Minstrel/Runekeeper will suffice for a 12 man though.
    Captains force comes by having a lot of HoTs, and while this is plenty to heal regular, low-medium damage hits, I highly doubt it will be enough for the big hits you often see in raids. So unless Durchest forgot his mace somewhere or BG has been made too easy somehow, I don't think we will see Captains completely take the main healer role in raids.

    For 6 mans however, I'm very certain they can be mainhealed by Captains. And 3 mans should be fairly easy if you're well geared.
    Last edited by Elrantiri; Dec 16 2012 at 11:40 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    I wouldn't bet too much on seeing Captains mainhealing raids yet, perhaps a setup with 2 Captains and 1 Minstrel/Runekeeper will suffice for a 12 man though.
    Captains force comes by having a lot of HoTs, and while this is plenty to heal regular, low-medium damage hits, I highly doubt it will be enough for the big hits you often see in raids. So unless Durchest forgot his mace somewhere or BG has been made too easy somehow, I don't think we will see Captains completely take the main healer role in raids.

    For 6 mans however, I'm very certain they can be mainhealed by Captains. And 3 mans should be fairly easy if you're well geared.
    RoR helped shore up our spot healing a bit. It's not perfect, but that one BoE 3.0 did improve it by a fair amount.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    RoR helped shore up our spot healing a bit. It's not perfect, but that one BoE 3.0 did improve it by a fair amount.
    Sure, but it's still rather small compared to what the healer classes can supply. Furthermore, in a 5b build I guess our only way of getting BoE buff up is by using Battle-shout (and the 3 minute cooldown potion), so we can only use BoE once every 20s (15s with red trait). That's still quite a limitation.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    Sure, but it's still rather small compared to what the healer classes can supply. Furthermore, in a 5b build I guess our only way of getting BoE buff up is by using Battle-shout (and the 3 minute cooldown potion), so we can only use BoE once every 20s (15s with red trait). That's still quite a limitation.
    Sure, but it's not as bad as you think....

    Especially with SotD (instead of IDoME) and IHW at your disposal.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Sure, but it's not as bad as you think....

    Especially with SotD (instead of IDoME) and IHW at your disposal.
    That completely depends on how much damage people will be taking in the upcoming raid.
    If the raid generally takes much more damage than what can be healed by 2 Captains, SotD and IHW will not be of much help.

  12. #12
    Just a couple of things:

    Hytbold healer is great for when there are not lots of defeat events, when there are Perseverance is still better. If you have both switch it if you can.
    Trait Muster Courage and rather have that legacy than WoC pulses. You will need self heals.
    Even when healing crit is a very important stat.
    Go IDoME, Dunedain and HoH.
    Shield bro the tank and help dps with revealing mark.
    Unless there is some 360 degree aoe or bad environment around boss come to his back and do melee.
    Traits suggested here are to make the run more safe. But as time passes and as those you play with get to know the run better and get better themselves some 3mans may even be possible to heal with red traits and running blade bro for fast runs. Blade bro is the first step, red traits later on. Also, get OBs instead of Dunedain.

    If tanking a 3man go LoM, IDoMe and Dunedain or OB.
    5 yellow traits along with now for wrath and muster courage/relentless optimism/turn of the tide/expert attacks renewed voice.
    In each fight noble mark the most dangerous thing. Use your forced attacks well (routing cry in the beginning (not always first) of trash pulls and whenever adds come in boss fight), cutting attack/grave wound combo for aggroing stance at first, do Threatning shout whenever you can.
    Pressing attack max targets is a great legacy to have.
    Whenever you feel that your defences are more than enough switch to your more dpsish weapon for extra aggro then switch back. Never forget your own heals, Rallying cry is not only a heal but also an aggro-leech move.
    When something has noble mark on it for some time you do not need to attend it as much, focus on getting aggro on other stuff then and (talking boss fights mainly). If RC and WC are on c/d do not forget to use Shadow's Lament as now it actually gives some aggro. If you are confident enough about your defences and having a good healer you can put Perseverance here too for lower c/d on cries (more healing and lower aoe forced attack c/d.
    Never be too nervous if one small thing escapes your aggro in trash pulls, it will be ok.
    The tanking can not evolve as much as healing can later on. Though, it could be possible to tank some things with red traits and noble mark, will try it.

    If you experience power problems during either healing or tanking during boss fights (longer fights with no adds and you can not get your crits) going with a Victory banner is good or switching to song bro a bit is good.

    DPS slot in 3mans...
    Well, we have low dps but we buff other's dps.
    But why not then tank or heal and buff other's dps at the same time?
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  13. #13
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    If you don't have a tank/warden and no healer class either, I'd go for HoH with Now for Wrath traited. If you have no heavy armour class I'd recommend a more tank setup. Bear in mind it's relatively easy to tank in DPS traits with noble mark and the full group heals from HoH can also generate a lot of threat, particularly when you need to KITE a bunch of mobs around.

    On average I would say the DPS traitline is useful for most situations (crits leading to defeat responses, the pinnacle of our healing and buffing).
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  14. #14
    Last night I was able to tank Iorbar and Goblin on t1. I'm still using a 75 2a weapon. :/ I ran with 5y2b and the full hytbold leader set. My group for goblin was mini and lm, and for iorbar was mini/hunter. Goblin was easy with no deaths. Iorbar the hunter died on the final boss, because I hadn't figured out the bosses ground pound, I got stunned and he walloped the hunter, we reset and it was super easy.

    I didn't have any problem with aggro, even with a hunter who had a weapon 10 levels above mine. Not sure how t2 would go, but wasn't super difficult on t1.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavyMark View Post
    I didn't have any problem with aggro, even with a hunter who had a weapon 10 levels above mine. Not sure how t2 would go, but wasn't super difficult on t1.
    Not that T2 is that hard, but I think Turbine has once again made the gap between T1 and T2 rather large, especially if you want to do Challenge.

  16. #16

    Red face New Goblin Town Recommendation

    Recommended to have a real tank due to number of adds, a real healer like mini or RK, and cappy should be fine. Ran it yesterday with 2 cappys and a champ, not enough heals for the Raging troll, I am sure inexperience with the 3-man had some role to play in the wipe, but just saying. The goblins hit hard, I have good gear and was getting smacked for 1300-1500 every second or so when the goblins were out. POT YOUR POISONS, WOUNDS, AND DISEASE. They hit for about 2k every 2 seconds (At least thats what toolbar says, ticks me for about 450-600) Anyways, just fyi. Also, did Iorbars peak with 3 cappies it was slow going, but did it just fine. On Tier 2 when fighting the final boss, be aware that there are 3 dwarves with kegs that come at the egg, so everyone has to take their own, unless you have hunter that can blow stuff up quickly. Thats all...I will keep experimenting.
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  17. #17
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    Tanked Warg Pens T2C. Final boss was a bit ugly as that warg hits hard, but after the champ figured out how best to handle the adds (popping his bubbles for the frost manes), it was doable. There's some hidden aggro mechanic on the final boss there that I don't understand. Like an aggro wipe or something. I lost aggro to the champ not going hard, at other times yesterday our raid guard and raid warden and my own warden did too. Not normal. I was feelin pretty down and out about Captain single target threat until I figured out it was a fight specific thing.

    With the warden tanking in the other run, I healed in MoW. With the guard, HoH. Of course with the warden, champ and I got aggro and got wrecked and the warden just whittled the boss down himself for a couple minutes so all I really needed to trait for was keeping the champ up.

    When I was warden tanking that, I had a red captain healing me. Same thing occurred. Champ and Capt pulled aggro and got wrecked after killing off the adds. They alt-tabbed while I soloed the boss for several minutes. Then the champ got his teal ring, yay. Something about threat in that fight I just don't understand.
    Last edited by Omen_Kaizer; Dec 18 2012 at 11:32 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Tanked Iorbar with a mini healing and a champ (champ switched to hunter for final boss after a several failed attempts), did fine.

    Final boss is wicked tricky, and you need to use Line of Sight to your advantage there.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Tanked Iorbar with a mini healing and a champ (champ switched to hunter for final boss after a several failed attempts), did fine.

    Final boss is wicked tricky, and you need to use Line of Sight to your advantage there.
    Did it with 2 cappys and a champ. No problems, just have to know when to move away, cappy tank should kite away from healer at all times, and face him away, good to have mic in this fight to call out when to move. tricky part is the three lil guys with kegs, during the fight. T2 has the third guy and didnt see him the first time he came out.
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