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  1. #1
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    Healing One Hander

    Soo.... going with the proposed Cappy Shield.... what legacies and relics would you use to make a healing oriented one hander?

  2. #2
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    Heya fellow captain! I have Weapon + Emblem for each Traitline. For HoH I have the following at 1h sword (Since there arent many healing legacies is a bit of buff weapon tbh)

    Pressing Atack Max Targets
    To arms duration
    Motivation Speech
    Make haste Duration
    Critical Buff
    Might Legacy

    I guess if you are doing this for 1 build, you may like telling mark damage or kick.


    Relics :

    25 Might
    574 Phy/Tac mastery

    148 Tact Mitigation
    657 Tact Mastery
    210 Max Power

    148 Phy Mitigation
    525 Phy/Tac mastery
    22 Fate

    20 Fate
    540 Critical
    540 Tactical Mastery!


    This was in RoI, I didnt updated them yet since not much healing atm. Hope helped! Safe travels!
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  3. #3
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    Not in-game and I'm horrible with remembering legacies but To Arms duration and the new Defeat Response Duration are a must.


    Edit: Oh, I also like Defensive Strike Armour Buff when healing so that I can use IHW and take less damage.
    Last edited by Fendrone; Nov 29 2012 at 10:10 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Can't say I've tested it, but I doubt Defensive Strike makes any difference during IHW, since you take 50% of your fellows' damage (so it's their stats that matter).

    Anyway, I'd get a lot more critical rating if I made a healing 1h. Without defeat responses, your healing goes down the drain pretty quickly - and let's not forget about Relentless Optimism.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rucagorn View Post

    Pressing Atack Max Targets
    To arms duration
    Motivation Speech
    Make haste Duration
    Critical Buff

    Might Legacy
    ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Fendrone View Post
    the new Defeat Response Duration are a must.
    ???
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  6. #6
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    I actually do think that Defeat Response Duration can be fairly useful for non-LtC Captains, who don't get as many PA/DB crits and thus need to be a bit more judicious in their use of defeat responses. And, come on, it's not like there are a ton of other great weapon minor legacies for healing.

    (Crit buff legacy is a bit hard to justify on anything other than a buffstick, though. Which is why I think it should be eliminated.)
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    (Crit buff legacy is a bit hard to justify on anything other than a buffstick, though. Which is why I think it should be eliminated.)
    Motivation, and arguably Make Haste and To Arms fall into that category, too (I for one have all three of those on my buffstick). Melee/Cry Power cost would be better choices, as would DB/PA critical rating since you may not have Expert Attacks in a HoH build. Telling Mark is also a legacy that I would have on any weapon, since it dynamically updates its value every few seconds.

    I think I would use:

    Telling Mark Damage
    Melee Skills Power Cost
    Pressing Attack Max Targets
    Devastating Blow Critical Rating
    Cry Power Cost
    Battle-states & Defeat Response Duration or Might

    Again, keep in mind that I have all buff legacies on my buffstick, including To Arms and Make Haste.
    Last edited by Gondolindhrim; Nov 30 2012 at 08:17 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
    Can't say I've tested it, but I doubt Defensive Strike makes any difference during IHW, since you take 50% of your fellows' damage (so it's their stats that matter).

    Anyway, I'd get a lot more critical rating if I made a healing 1h. Without defeat responses, your healing goes down the drain pretty quickly - and let's not forget about Relentless Optimism.
    Unlike Guard's shield wall, IHW uses your own mitigation.

    Case in point: Acid T2, say someone hits their pot in a group and everyone gets the nasty disease. If you hit IHW, you'll have half a dozen of the same red number pop up above your head while the group is taking damage from that source.

    Also, what shield has crit? I missed that I guess, all I remember is tact mastery and might on assorted captain shields. Or would you just make different relic choices?
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  9. #9
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    Don't the Diseases on Acid remove a set amount of morale, rather than deal damage, thus bypassing any mitigation? There have been a few effects that worked this way in past encounters, which would explain what you're describing. It's of course still possible that IHW uses your own mitigation; I haven't been playing Captain before Rohan, so I just assumed that it worked the same way as Shield-wall. :p

    As for crit, yeah, I'd pick different relics. True Setting of the North and Red Agate Gem of the Steadfast, to be precise (not sure which runes I'd go with to be honest).
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  10. #10
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    I don´t really see the need of the "state duration"!

    Without the 3-ettenmoors perserverance bonus... well you can wait with your rallying cry untill the group takes a great amount of damage... but for such cases I can use time of need (with composure) for example or I just get the three pieces of the ettenmoors set...^^ Everytime I want a RC I will get a Rallying Cry ...

    so no use for me there

    (I hate S&B btw)

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  11. #11
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    It will give you more attempts to land Blade of Elendil if for some reason it does not connect. Will give you more freedom to decide when to use PA/DB as well; if you suddenly need to toss out a couple of heals, you can do so without missing out on DB/PA. Also helps if you get stunned right after Battle-shout or DB/PA.
    It does have some use, though a Might legacy may be better.
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  12. #12
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    I personally use a halberd as opposed to a shield and one handed but that's my own personal preference.

    On my normal halberd, seeing as we are limited in terms of good healing legacies I tend to run a mainly dps weapon, but let me explain how this impacts my healing.

    I run a HoH cappy for the most part with a whole bag dedicated to my tanking equipment, since I do tank on occasion as well. But I digress, my legacies on my lvl 85 halberd are as follows:

    Devastating Blow Crit
    Pressing Attack Crit
    Melee Power Cost
    (4th major, which I have not decided on yet but currently I have Maximum Pressing Attack Targets)
    Vit
    Might

    Now let me explain my reasoning behind these legacies. One, crit. As a cappy I rely on crit to give me a defeat response from both DB and PA so that I can use Rallying Cry often. I use both legacies pertaining to Rallying Cry on my Emblem so this works out quite nicely.
    Two: because cappies tend to have power problems, or at least the ones I've spoken to, I use the power cost legacy so that my melee skills, including my melee healing skills can use less power thus being able to use the attacks without worrying when they're off cool down.

    Three, Maximum Targets, more targets means there's a better chance at getting a crit right? I might end up keeping this one.

    I don't like any of the minor legacies, and quite frankly I don't need the Battle states and defeat response ones since sometimes I find that I don't have enough defeat response skills and because of cool downs


    When healing I find that this works well since i rely on rallying cry because it is really good and keeps my side with power as well. Feel free to make other suggestions though, I can always use improvements.
    Last edited by QueenArleth; Nov 30 2012 at 11:35 AM.
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  13. #13
    First of all i can not help to point out many of the wrong things said in this thread:

    1. If you are making a weapon for pure healing that does not mean you dont have anything smarter to put on it than buff legacies. Things like DB crit, PA targets, telling mark (with a shield you can also be a telling mark and/or command captain in raids) would still help you a lot.

    2. Lack of crit is not an argument against a 1h/shield. You miss some 400 at most from a passive (if you get it)


    I have always been a big fan of 2h, and i still will be. It looks cool and it has its benefits in moors and soloing instances.

    But, as it has been said before in here, with 1h/shield you really do not lose anything else than some dps.
    Therefore it is better unless your raid needs every bit of dps they can get.
    It will be tempting for a lot of cappies, especially if this shield goes live.

    The block while in red or blue traits is nice and the extra stats are good too.

    I've always used 1h only as a tank weapon when i had enough aggro and needed more survivability only.
    But as much as i like messing around with LIs i do not doubt ill make at least one 1h for dps/heals.
    I will expore how it with red traits in moors and soloing instances too.
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  14. #14
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    ok, im jacking the thread!


    im confused on how In Harms Way works now... i always assumed, we took 1/2 the dmg our group would have taken (as the tool tip says, or at least, used to say). so, only THIER mitigation is taken into account.

    if they took 100 dmg, we would take 50 and they would take 50

    if they mitigate 10%, that would be 90 dmg: we would take 45 and they would take 45.


    are you all saying that it calculates the mitigation at both points?

    if i have 20% mit and they have 10% mit: would they take 45 and i take 40 (1/2 of 80% of the original dmg?)

    or would i take 20% off of my shared 45dmg.


    i always thoght it was straight 1/2... because it used to be strairght 100%, when i started. i didnt think they got all fancy with the calculations.


    ps- sorry if even my simple math is jacked... im a gut-feel player, not a number cruncher. but you regulars know this
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
    It will give you more attempts to land Blade of Elendil if for some reason it does not connect. Will give you more freedom to decide when to use PA/DB as well; if you suddenly need to toss out a couple of heals, you can do so without missing out on DB/PA. Also helps if you get stunned right after Battle-shout or DB/PA.
    It does have some use, though a Might legacy may be better.
    This.

    That's where the Battle States are going to shine, by extending the amount of time you can do stuff between steps of that skill chain, which may be needed if things get hairy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SapienChavez View Post
    ok, im jacking the thread!
    im confused on how In Harms Way works now...
    Obviously, none of us can see under the hood, and I'm away from Combat Analysis, but let me put my D&D Rules Lawyer hat on and make a guess based on the tooltip description.

    You put yourself in harm's way to defend your nearby companions, taking half of all damage dealt to them upon yourself.
    Note that it says "damage dealt", as opposed to "damage taken". To me, this means damage before mitigations. So, take the raw, base damage from the attack and halve it. Then, put it on the Captain. This part, I'm pretty confident in.

    The question at this point is how the Captain's mitigations affect the damage number. There are two ways the tooltip can be parsed. The fact that it says "taking" rather than "dealing" could imply (see above) that it ignores mitigations entirely. On the other hand, you could also read "upon yourself" to mean that it applies the damage to you as damage would normally be applied (i.e., going through mitigations).

    Considering that you're essentially mitigating the incoming damage by 50% just by activating the skill, I find the first of those two interpretations (ignores mitigations) most likely. But it also seems, based on a gut-check, like this would result in more instagibbed Captains than we actually see.

    Here's a proposed test: Get a group (any size) together where everyone is running Combat Analysis, and have them log their Damage Taken. Do any boss fight with a predictable source of AoE damage. I'd propose the Orc boss in Limlight Gorge for this. Have everyone other than the Captain deliberately stand in range of the AoE attack when it goes off; Captain activates IHW at this point.

    After the fact, grab everyone's logs and run the numbers.

    Case 1) IHW ignores everyone's mitigations: The sum of everyone else's incoming damage should be less than the amount of damage the Captain takes; they mitigated the half of the damage they took, the Captain didn't.

    Case 2) IHW obeys everyone's mitigations: Sum the amount of everyone else's incoming damage. Multiply that by the Captain's mitigation % shown on the character panel. This result should equal the amount of damage the Captain took.

    Case 3) Some combination of the above: It should be possible to work backwards from everyone's mitigations and damage log to determine the "true" damage dealt to both the Group and to the Captain. I'm having logic trouble today, which is bad because I've got a Formal Languages & Automata final exam in an hour. But some of the results will reduce to the above two cases. Some won't. At least one has to correspond to "IHW ignores everyone else's mitigations but obeys the Captain's". Another would correspond to "IHW ignores the Captain's mitigations but obeys the Captain's". Confusingly, I think there might be some overlap between either or both of those two and Case 1, but see above re: logic trouble.
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  17. #17
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    thanks for trying to think it out with me

    bottome-line, none of this changes how or when i use the skill and still keeps my finger-on-the-last-stand-trigger.

    but it would be nice to really know, for the reasons mentioned in this thread! its would add value to shields!
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  18. #18
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    Going through the legacies mentioned thus far:

    Telling Mark - Not needed, if you're going this far towards healing, you will (more than likely) be main healing 3/6 mans and be using Revealing Mark instead.

    To arms duration - While I would run this because I am set against using LI swap items... many will have a macro set up to make it work.

    Motivation Speech - Not needed, put it on your buff stick

    Make haste Duration - Better for a swap LI, but not needed.

    Critical Buff - If this is referring to Tactics: Relentless Assault, put it on your buff stick

    Might Legacy - This is an extremely good legacy to use with a Crystal of Remembrance. You essentially get free stats for ~$10 USD

    Defeat Response Duration - I can definitely see the use of this legacy, it gives us time to interleave other skills in the BS =>DB/PA => BoE skill chain

    Melee Skills Power Cost, Cry Power Cost - I like this one, but going with a Song Brother based healing may render it useless

    Pressing Attack Max Targets - Needed for Defeat Response Generation
    Devastating Blow Critical Rating - Needed for Defeat Response Generation

    Pressing Attack Critical Rating - Not sure if it's needed because of PA Targets and a base 20% crit chance.

    Defensive Strike Armor - Could be an interesting option.

    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    **post**
    If pur mitigations are in effect with IHW, that may be crucial for a 1H Healing sword.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    If pur mitigations are in effect with IHW, that may be crucial for a 1H Healing sword.
    Yeah, I might try to persuade some kinfolk to try it out.

    Any ideas for where to test this, other than Roots of Fangorn's Orc boss? Maybe have someone in the fellowship jump into a firepit somewhere? (One of the ones that does damage but isn't an instakill.)
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    B]Pressing Attack Critical Rating[/B] - Not sure if it's needed because of PA Targets and a base 20% crit chance.
    Could you explain further? I think I might not understand how PA processes.

  21. #21
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    As a Captain, your base chance to crit should be around 20%. Pressing Attack generates a Defeat Event if it crits against any of its targets.

    Chance to crit with PA against two targets: ~36%
    Against three targets (unranked legacy): ~49%
    Against four targets: ~60%

    Let's say your Pressing Attack Critical Rating legacy increases your crit chance on each attack by 2%. (This is pretty darned generous, TBH.)

    Chance to crit with PA against two targets: ~39%

    Even if you never put any points in it, the Targets legacy is pretty much always better. Unless you're in a situation where you never have more than two targets in range, that is. (Which almost always means a no-adds boss fight or something anyway.)
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
    Motivation, and arguably Make Haste and To Arms fall into that category, too (I for one have all three of those on my buffstick). Melee/Cry Power cost would be better choices, as would DB/PA critical rating since you may not have Expert Attacks in a HoH build. Telling Mark is also a legacy that I would have on any weapon, since it dynamically updates its value every few seconds.

    I think I would use:

    Telling Mark Damage
    Melee Skills Power Cost
    Pressing Attack Max Targets
    Devastating Blow Critical Rating
    Cry Power Cost
    Battle-states & Defeat Response Duration or Might

    Again, keep in mind that I have all buff legacies on my buffstick, including To Arms and Make Haste.
    This is almost identical to my 1Her that I've been using since like pre-GR. The only major switch is that I use Pressing Attack Crit instead of Telling Mark damage. I go on the assumption that the other cappy will probably be using a weapon with Telling Mark on it, so I go revealing mark whenever I use a 1H. If it really comes down to it and I need to use Telling Mark, I'll suck it up and use the 2H.

    I also prefer might over Battle-States, but I haven't really been in a situation yet where the defeat responses didn't outnumber the skills I could use them on (since we've got nothing but skraids right now, things die constantly. Plus, since I'm doing skraids I trait red so Shadow's Lament doesn't use defeat responses either.)

    Power costs are very important, with a 1H you tend to swing around more often so you'll go through power a bit faster.
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  23. #23
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    Consolidating the above, that gives us the following legacies:

    • Majors
      • +To Arms
      • -Melee Skills Power Cost
      • +PATargets
      • +DB Crit
    • Minors
      • -Cry Power Cost
      • +Battle States
      • +Defensive Strike Armor
      • Might


    That's actually an easily doable LI, and guaranteed if you drop the TP for a crystal of remembrance.

    What about the relics and such?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondolindhrim View Post
    Don't the Diseases on Acid remove a set amount of morale, rather than deal damage, thus bypassing any mitigation? There have been a few effects that worked this way in past encounters, which would explain what you're describing. It's of course still possible that IHW uses your own mitigation; I haven't been playing Captain before Rohan, so I just assumed that it worked the same way as Shield-wall.
    Ugh, yeah that's correct. I never thought to question how the damage of the acid worked, I assumed it was mitigateable.


    From beta, here's from casting IHW on my herald and bannerguard as an LG troll was aoe'ing them.

    The Marauding Stone-troll scored a hit with Melee Arc Knockback on Argendauss for 364 Common damage to Morale.
    The Marauding Stone-troll scored a hit with Melee Arc Knockback on Concorde for 364 Common damage to Morale.
    The Marauding Stone-troll scored a hit with Melee Arc Knockback on Argendauss for 538 Common damage to Morale.
    The Marauding Stone-troll scored a hit with Melee Arc Knockback on Patsy for 538 Common damage to Morale.

    Somehow my herald took less damage in 75 armaments than my herald (LtC, but no herald traits), but I guess since it was on beta (Captain pre-RoR from last RoR beta build, auto leveled to 85) my bannerguard was merely maxed for 75 and not 85. Patsy's still a beast though.

    EDIT: Oh and another tidbit, not surprising really but interesting to see how it's recorded:

    The Marauding Stone-troll scored a hit with a moderate swipe attack on Argendauss for 1,084 Common damage to Morale.
    The Marauding Stone-troll scored a critical hit with a moderate swipe attack on Patsy for 1,084 Common damage to Morale.

    I was hit, Patsy was crit. Neat.

    -----


    Back on the topic of 1H, in the current build of beta the Exemplary Captain's Shield gives +4 WoC pulses. Doesn't really change my opinion of 1H, which is that I just want to play with it see how it the attack speed affects my very crunched LtC rotation spamming Dagor BoE and SS for maximum synthetic defeat response generation (and at what cost for DPS).

    How does the prospect of +4 WoC pulses make y'all feel?
    Last edited by Omen_Kaizer; Dec 01 2012 at 04:31 AM.
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  25. #25
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    The WoC pulses sounds decent enough, I guess they've given all the classes a similar bonus on the gold items? I like that concept.

    I don't really have time to spam WoC in LtC since I run through the BoE chain every 13s and need to hit Inspire, Defeat responses, Sure Strike (for the incoming damage debuff), To Arms etc in between.

    Then again, I only really see myself using a 1h while in HoH. That shield may actually be pretty sweet for healing in the moors...
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