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Thread: U9 Patch Notes

  1. #26
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    Doubt this will change anything outside the moors. If any mobs in the new instances have Crit Defense, it'll be a first.

    Very nice for the moors, though. :)
    [COLOR=#8b4513][B]Fredecar [/B][/COLOR]- Burglar[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Original Challenger of Saruman[/I][/SIZE]
    [B][COLOR=#daa520]Fingolwë [/COLOR][/B]- Champion[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Challenger of Gortheron[/I][/SIZE]
    [COLOR=#003399][B]Eleril [/B][/COLOR]- Captain[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Bane of the Lieutenant[/I][/SIZE]

  2. #27
    Yes, i ment it in a moors sense mostly.
    No longer shall they trait 4-6 crit defences before going to spar me :P.
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  3. #28
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    Huh. I wonder how this changes the priority for getting Crit Def through relics/shields/etc.

    Wild guess: I'd reckon that the overall value of Critical Defence in general has gone up, and more importantly that small amounts of it are relatively more valuable than before. For one thing, the mitigation formula's scaling is more generous, but let's crunch numbers.

    Here's a model for "Effective Damage Prevented" in either the Live or BR cases. For BR, I'm assuming that the mitigations are calculated in parallel, rather than in series. It's easy to generate a number that goes the other way, though, so I'll do both. Also, in both cases, I'm using the expected value over time, which for BR damage requires I multiple by the chance you got critically hit. (Only way to make the comparison sensible.)

    Live Damage Prevented = (Crit Damage * K) * % Mitigation * % Crit Defence,
    where K = scale factor that reduces crit damage down to normal hit damage, ~67%
    BR Damage Prevented = Crit Damage * % Mitigation * % Crit Defence * % Critical Chance

    Throwing numbers from the thread in there, it appears that the current rating conversion formula gives 5% chance to avoid for 1800 rating, where the BR formula would give ~30% extra mitigation. Let's assume a 10k hit, which isn't unheard of, and 50% mitigation, which should be about average for a Captain. Also assume the enemy has a 20% critical hit chance (kind of arbitrary).

    Live Damage Prevented = ~168
    BR Damage Prevented = 300

    Anyway, let's say instead that you have 5k Crit Defence (I guess not unheard of for non-Captain tanks). This is ~15% critical hit chance reduction or 55% critical hit mitigation

    Live Damage Prevented = ~503
    BR Damage Prevented = ~550

    (As a side note, it appears that Live-style Crit Defence, like Finesse, subtracts directly from your opponent's rating. This makes the result for any given amount of it dependent on how much Crit Rating your opponent has; the more they have, the less your Crit Def does, thanks to diminishing returns. Upshot: 5% is probably too high for the Live Damage Prevented...)

    Now, how about my assertion that small amounts are more useful than before? It should be obvious. The more rating you have, the more the two Damage Prevented numbers converge. More importantly, BR Damage Prevented is significantly higher for the low-rating case.

    In addition to the above, let's say you double your rating from 1800 to 3600. On BR, the resulting reduction goes from 30% to ~45%, for a 50% increase. Live style is tricky, but I'll give it a go.

    Based on [ul=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?424066-Combat-stat-changes-on-Isengard-release.-Mitigation-and-Offence]this[/url], let's assume your opponent is a level 85 monster with 5100 Crit Rating. The reduction in his crit chance for 1800 Crit Defence is ~4%. You double your rating to 3600, and now the reduction in his crit chance is 5%. That's only a 25% increase.

    So, doubling your rating from 1800 to 3600 does more for you in the proposed new version of Critical Defence than in the current version. This also applies to doubling from 900 to 1800, so the amount of Critical Defence present on relics (for instance) is a bigger boost than it used to be.

    ...

    Additional side note: This assumes that mitigations stack multiplicatively. Ask yourself what happens when you have 50% Crit Defence and 50% Mitigation; it should be obvious why I assumed that. :P
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
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  4. #29
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    And.... a master listing of all the Hytbold and 'Moors armor sets, with the BG 2.0 Armor set listed last...

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1djMFZXaDFSVVE

    Given what the original one was, it's not a bad translation... but it's not particularly good either...

    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Batt...der%27s_Armour
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  5. #30
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    I can't imagine that anyone would use the scaled BG sets, the bonuses were always terrible (except the Champ set, but that is now a 3-piece Hytbold bonus...). If tier 1 is really easy (assuming there is a tier 1), maybe the sets will se a little use.

    I just hope the cosmetics are cool. :p
    [COLOR=#8b4513][B]Fredecar [/B][/COLOR]- Burglar[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Original Challenger of Saruman[/I][/SIZE]
    [B][COLOR=#daa520]Fingolwë [/COLOR][/B]- Champion[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Challenger of Gortheron[/I][/SIZE]
    [COLOR=#003399][B]Eleril [/B][/COLOR]- Captain[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Bane of the Lieutenant[/I][/SIZE]

  6. #31
    I'm more worried about the changes to crit defense that may lower our already gimped dps even lower since most of our skills only do significant damage when they crit...

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...itical-Defence
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jchudz View Post
    I'm more worried about the changes to crit defense that may lower our already gimped dps even lower since most of our skills only do significant damage when they crit...

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...itical-Defence
    That's a tricky situation. It does lower our DPS a bit, but on the flip side will also raise the amount of defeat responses we can use (since we crit more, just not as hard). As a more group-oriented captain I'm happy with the change, but I can see how DPS/solo cappies are gonna be upset with it.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    That's a tricky situation. It does lower our DPS a bit, but on the flip side will also raise the amount of defeat responses we can use (since we crit more, just not as hard). As a more group-oriented captain I'm happy with the change, but I can see how DPS/solo cappies are gonna be upset with it.
    That's also a good thing for the 'Moors cause it makes it easier to get a defeat response out there.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  9. #34
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    Yeah, I really thing the crit def changes will be a net plus for us.

    Also, I'm not sure how prevalent crit def on PvE mobs is anyway. It mostly matters for a) the Moors, where our DPS was already a joke, so who cares, and b) Captain tanks, who benefit because we're getting more damage reduction out of our relatively small amount of crit def.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  10. #35
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    how reliable is that BG set bonus? if Battle Shout resets itself 20% or more then im interested. ~50% and i might make the switch!

    that is the only raid ive never done in this game, so i never had that set.


    edit: found it in another thread... 10%. no thanks. might get it for cosmo... but im still wearing the same thing since the day the adventurer hat was released! my wool-lined vest is getting a little crusty, but its holding up!
    Last edited by SapienChavez; Dec 03 2012 at 11:56 AM.
    "I am always serious; I am never serious." -Me
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  11. #36
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    I still haven't found anything to replace my Fancy Plumed Hat and Frostbluff Robe of Thanks, at least for formal-wear. Though I do find myself wearing Lavanham with trousers a lot, which provides a good balance of fashion and utility.

    (Actually, I do think Rohan so far as been much better for armour cosmetics than Dunland was, although I still prefer the lightly-armoured look for my Captain.)
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    I still haven't found anything to replace my Fancy Plumed Hat and Frostbluff Robe of Thanks, at least for formal-wear. Though I do find myself wearing Lavanham with trousers a lot, which provides a good balance of fashion and utility.

    (Actually, I do think Rohan so far as been much better for armour cosmetics than Dunland was, although I still prefer the lightly-armoured look for my Captain.)
    I think right now I'm rocking the T2 chest (Fuinham?) from ToO for my cosmetics. Looks snappy AND it shows I'm competent enough to beat T2 content. Plus it goes super-well with my pirate hat and eyepatch.
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    I still haven't found anything to replace my Fancy Plumed Hat and Frostbluff Robe of Thanks, at least for formal-wear. Though I do find myself wearing Lavanham with trousers a lot, which provides a good balance of fashion and utility.

    (Actually, I do think Rohan so far as been much better for armour cosmetics than Dunland was, although I still prefer the lightly-armoured look for my Captain.)
    Yeah, some of that "heavy" armor doesn't look heavy at all. Perfect for my "farmer-boy-turned-war-hero" look (when combined with the Farmers' faire hat). :-D
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

  14. #39
    These miss chance changes and crit avoidance changes are huge for us.

    Very pleased.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy_Eclipse View Post
    These miss chance changes and crit avoidance changes are huge for us.

    Very pleased.
    It's going to completely reinvent what a captain means in the 'Moors now.....
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  16. #41
    can't wait for my SL crits to go from 3000-4000 to 2100-2800... at least if i'm understanding the mechanics properly.

    eg. 3000 damage crit with 30% crit defense hits for 3000*.7=2100

    or I could be wrong and the defense applies to the modifier in which case the math gets more complicated...

    Oh well i guess since our dps is so bad to begin with a percentage dps drop doesn't effect us as much as say, a hunter or rk who depend a lot on crits
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jchudz View Post
    can't wait for my SL crits to go from 3000-4000 to 2100-2800... at least if i'm understanding the mechanics properly.

    eg. 3000 damage crit with 30% crit defense hits for 3000*.7=2100

    or I could be wrong and the defense applies to the modifier in which case the math gets more complicated...

    Oh well i guess since our dps is so bad to begin with a percentage dps drop doesn't effect us as much as say, a hunter or rk who depend a lot on crits
    My guess is that it's going to narrow the gap between the high end and the low end of the DPS spectrum, while placing more emphasis on crit above offence.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  18. #43
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    Should be good for solo captains as well, considering the healing they get is from rallying cry and the war-cry / routing cry will be good for their playstyle.
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