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  1. #1

    Starting again after a long break.

    Hello fellow captains!

    I used to play as cptn back at launch and recently have been thinking about having another go at it. I've decided that I'll make a new character and delete the old one. I have a couple of questions...

    Is it possible to deal respectable damage with this class? By respectable I don't necessarily mean top of the line DPS, comparable to say, Champions or Hunters, but I want to contribute in a meaningful way (damage wise, that is). I'm asking because while I like the support oriented nature of the class, I'd still like to play aggressively and do more than annoy the enemies. Unfortunately it'd seem that (from what I've read) it's not really possible. I hope I can be proven wrong about this

    Should that prove to be impossible, which class would you recommend? I like the jack of all trades playstyle the most, and generally enjoy doing at least two things at a time (e.g. healing and dealing damage). I've been wondering about Champions as well, but they seem to be a one tricky pony (that is, do lots of damage).

    Would really appreciate help!

  2. #2
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    Captains is probably the only true jack of all trades in LotrO, though I guess Lore-master has some of it as well.
    While LtC traited Captains can deal a fair amount of damage, they're still very healing oriented and thus heal at least as much as they DPS if in a 6 man group. Captain's main DPS still comes from the buffs he gives to the fellowship rather than his own damage.
    Also, Captains have become a very good source of power for the fellowship, which is a huge bonus as I see it.

  3. #3
    And that sounds very good, I like that kind of a playstyle - but my only worry is that I'd be one the sidelines all the time, doing piddly damage.

    I guess my aim is to really Lead the Charge indeed, but not in name only

  4. #4
    cappy dps isnt as bad as it was pre-roi, you can get pretty good dps these days, but all the infight buffing you do means you will never get as high a dps as champs.
    after roi i hardly ever trait blue anymore, but i play a cappy, not a cappy-alt for raiding
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2521c01000026f3e4/signature.png]Kalraburz[/charsig]

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Not to mention every group wants a captain, they're extremely helpful although not the best solo class.

  6. #6
    If I remember correctly, some captains (with great gear) were parsing around 2/3 the single target dps of champions and hunters on the Galtrev training dummies at level 75. So that dps is good enough for soloing and you can add a lot to your fellowship through pure damage.

    But you will never add only damage, but also be spotting heals, throwing out buffs, and performing other utility duties during group fights, which in themselves lower your personal dps, but serve to increase your group's dps and survivability. It's a fun class.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    If I remember correctly, some captains (with great gear) were parsing around 2/3 the single target dps of champions and hunters on the Galtrev training dummies at level 75. So that dps is good enough for soloing and you can add a lot to your fellowship through pure damage.

    But you will never add only damage, but also be spotting heals, throwing out buffs, and performing other utility duties during group fights, which in themselves lower your personal dps, but serve to increase your group's dps and survivability. It's a fun class.
    And that's exactly what I'm looking for - jack of all trades gameplay, so that makes me pretty happy.

    I'd be fine with 60-70% of say, Champion's damage Just that when I do go stuck in, I want to make a difference, not just engage in melee because I've exhausted all my buffs and there's not healing needed at the moment and I attack simply because I've got nothing else to do ;P

    As I've mentioned, I'd really want to Lead the charge sometimes

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle-ready View Post
    And that's exactly what I'm looking for - jack of all trades gameplay, so that makes me pretty happy.

    I'd be fine with 60-70% of say, Champion's damage Just that when I do go stuck in, I want to make a difference, not just engage in melee because I've exhausted all my buffs and there's not healing needed at the moment and I attack simply because I've got nothing else to do ;P

    As I've mentioned, I'd really want to Lead the charge sometimes
    Captains are not doing 60-70% of what good Champions do. It's not unusual for Champions to reach 3-4k DPS in skirmish raids and I have yet to see Captains do more than 2k DPS.

  9. #9
    ^ that.

    I don't want you to have any illusions that our dps is anywhere near that of a dps class, not even close. We can beat the button mashers that play at a dps class, but we are by no means close to a dps class that knows what they are doing. Rotation and build is everything.

    We have our strong points but dps is by no means one of them, we are on the lowest end, and possibly the lowest for personal dps. However we have the means to give those dps classes the power to reach their insane dps. We are absolutely amazing in a group if played properly, honest and truley amazing, though it's subtle and not always recognized.

    I would keep your captain rather than re-roll, most do not find the captain leveling experience a joyous one, however some still do. Use our Captain Library to re-fresh yourself rather than starting all over.
    Last edited by Armitas; Nov 23 2012 at 09:34 AM.
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  10. #10
    Thanks for all the answers.

    That's rather disappointing, but expected. I was hoping you could play as a hybrid with decent (not great, but decent) DPS.

    I'm torn between champion and captain now, but as I've mentioned, I don't like one dimensional classes.

    And I'll definitely start over, I actually enjoy the process of leveling up

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Battle-ready View Post
    Thanks for all the answers.

    That's rather disappointing, but expected. I was hoping you could play as a hybrid with decent (not great, but decent) DPS.

    I'm torn between champion and captain now, but as I've mentioned, I don't like one dimensional classes.

    And I'll definitely start over, I actually enjoy the process of leveling up
    I have both. If you are going to level a champion and a captain, level the captain first.

    As for the captain's playstyle, it's tough to explain, but you won't ever be called upon for your personal dps, but when a group needs a lot of dps, they always want a captain around. Also, you should almost always be actively attacking an opponent. Some of your heals are caused by melee attacks, so while you may not be doing a ton of direct damage on your opponents, you are definitely making them angry.

    It would be a mistake to concentrate all your attention on doing dps on your target. The captain's main strength is to help direct the flow of battle as needed. If someone starts losing morale, it's your job to help heal. If a monster attacks the healer, it's your job (or the champion's) to get it back toward the tank. If your group needs a dangerous monster kited away from the melee, well, that's probably your job too. If, as a captain, all you were looking at was the mob's morale bar, you would just be a wimpy champion.

    If you want to concentrate your attention on the actual damage-dealing role, the champion is probably what you want, but the champion is much more of a 1-dimensional--maybe 1.5, they're ok at tanking if you put in the effort--class.

    If you can find a champion friend to play with your captain as you level, you will understand.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  12. #12
    Well, I actually like the jack of all trades playstyle - doing damage a bit, then healing, supporting my team etc.

    I've decided that I'll play as a captain - that said, any tricks to maximizing the DPS? I still want to play the support role, but I want to put a biggest possible emphasis on the damage (without sacrificing the support gameplay). Any suggestions?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Battle-ready View Post
    Well, I actually like the jack of all trades playstyle - doing damage a bit, then healing, supporting my team etc.

    I've decided that I'll play as a captain - that said, any tricks to maximizing the DPS? I still want to play the support role, but I want to put a biggest possible emphasis on the damage (without sacrificing the support gameplay). Any suggestions?
    Level independent:

    Try to get as much might(->Physical mastery) and crit as possible

    >Lvl33:

    Equip 4 "red" traits as quick as possible -> +5% melee crit

    Lvl58:
    Get the red Capstone "Lead the Charge" as soon as possibel
    After that try to get a emblem with "-Shadows Lament CD"
    you can also use an archer herald from that point. If you don't like heralds equip the banner of war

    Lvl74/75:
    use bladebrother on fellowship member or herald
    get 3 Pieces of the Dagor Set
    Last edited by Nebukadnezar; Nov 26 2012 at 10:23 AM.
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  14. #14
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    From what you describe, have you considered the burglar class?

    Their playstyle is truly jack-of-all trades, not as "trait for a role" like captains, they provide survivability/healing through debuffs/CC/FM heals, they provide off-tank support via CC or direct off-tanking, they offer some of the highest single target DPS, they provide power for the group, as well as all their individual fun (sneaking, burglarizing).

    Groups always want burgs, as they boost everyone's damage and reduce the healer's load (similar to what we do as captains).

    You have to stay on your toes as a burg, adapting to the circumstances, catching adds that might arrive, adjusting to the flow of battle to switch from boosting crits/finesse/damage to reducing MOBs attack speed/damage ability, filling in for a healer that might have dropped, filling in for a tank who might have dropped. Which says nothing of the CC management, lacking in the captain class.

    From what you describe, desiring DPS plus utility, that is precisely the definition of burgs.



    "Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post
    From what you describe, have you considered the burglar class?

    Their playstyle is truly jack-of-all trades <snip>
    Not really. Don't get me wrong, Burglar is my main and I love the class, but you can't really call it a jack-of-all trades. It's a high single-target DPS class with some minor additional utility (mainly Riddle, Disable, Twist, CJs). DPS is the only role the classes share in group play, and the first Captain in a fellowship will contribute even more to group DPS than a Burglar through buffs, Telling Mark, and Sure Strike (and Oathbreakers for burst damage). However, the Captain can also function as a healer, at the same time. You don't need to trait Hands of Healing to heal, far from it. Captains can also off-tank fairly competently, again at the same time as healing and contributing to group DPS. They can even main-tank in a pinch, although you do need to retrait for that if the content you're running is challenging.

    tl;dr: Captains can fill 2-3 roles at once, whereas the Burglar really excels at one role (with a bit of utility on the side).
    [COLOR=#8b4513][B]Fredecar [/B][/COLOR]- Burglar[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Original Challenger of Saruman[/I][/SIZE]
    [B][COLOR=#daa520]Fingolwë [/COLOR][/B]- Champion[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Challenger of Gortheron[/I][/SIZE]
    [COLOR=#003399][B]Eleril [/B][/COLOR]- Captain[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Bane of the Lieutenant[/I][/SIZE]

  16. #16
    Well, I didn't think of Burglar - I'm usually not a fan of stealth classes (or dual wielders). But I admit, that has piqued my curiosity Then again, from Gondolindhrim's post it would seem that they're DPS focused (similiarily to champions).

    One more thing I've been wondering about : do Champions have any group support?

    P.S.

    My captain's level 17 already, doing well! I'm more and more tempted to maximize all DPS from this class - it's a challenge, admittedly, but I'm really anxious to try.
    Last edited by Battle-ready; Nov 27 2012 at 06:30 AM.

  17. #17
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    As others have said, captain DPS is ok for solo content. in groups though the DPS usually comes from the dedicated damage classes (hunter, champ, runekeeper, burg), and the relevance of your own DPS becomes smaller as the group gets larger. A captain will do around half the (direct) damage of a dedicated class, depending on gear and traits. Also he is restricted pretty much to single-target damage, as the two AoE attacks are gated. On the flip side you get amazing buffs, nice healing capabilities and two in-combat revive skills (which for some content can be very important), and you're less depending on gear than most other classes.

    While champ is a primary damage class you can also have some other responsibilities depending on content, like kiting enemies around, interrupting inductions or even main-tanking if you can handle it. However your skills are focused on hitting the enemy and ensure your own survival, there isn't much to (directly) help others.

    If you're looking for a class that has both nice damage and great support you need to look at the tactical classes like Runekeeper and Loremaster. Though obviously they lack the tanking capabilities of a Captain or Champ.
    Last edited by Grimdi; Nov 27 2012 at 08:41 AM.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  18. #18
    If only you could play the Loremaster as a melee class There's staff strike, but I don't suppose it's very useful.

    (And yes, as you can see, I like oddball class combinations - and especially making them actually work).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battle-ready View Post
    Well, I didn't think of Burglar - I'm usually not a fan of stealth classes (or dual wielders). But I admit, that has piqued my curiosity Then again, from Gondolindhrim's post it would seem that they're DPS focused (similiarily to champions).
    In the current state of the game, Burglars are masters of single-target DPS while Champions are masters of AoE. On single targets, Burglars are so far ahead of the rest (apart from Captains, but unlike Burglars they don't stack well) that it's more than a little silly; however, they have the weakest AoE DPS in the game by far. Champions, on the other hand, have the best AoE while still being able to deal excellent single target DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battle-ready View Post
    One more thing I've been wondering about : do Champions have any group support?
    Not much. Champions get an armour debuff which is pretty good, an AoE stun, and they are good at off-tanking DPS targets. That's more or less what you get in terms of group support.
    [COLOR=#8b4513][B]Fredecar [/B][/COLOR]- Burglar[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Original Challenger of Saruman[/I][/SIZE]
    [B][COLOR=#daa520]Fingolwë [/COLOR][/B]- Champion[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Challenger of Gortheron[/I][/SIZE]
    [COLOR=#003399][B]Eleril [/B][/COLOR]- Captain[SIZE=1] ~ [I]Bane of the Lieutenant[/I][/SIZE]

  20. #20
    Thanks for the detailed answer!

    I'm more and more thinking about the Lore-master. I only wish they had more than 2 melee attacks (those are pretty powerful though, it seems). They have a few melee traits, but I don't think I could play them that way

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinge View Post
    after roi i hardly ever trait blue anymore, but i play a cappy, not a cappy-alt for raiding
    I missed this little gem. such true words i wish more people understood.

    im happy to listen to a raid leader and follow orders, but most of the time they would be better off just taking off my leash and letting me do my own thing. as a carreer capn, i know what i need to be doing at all times.
    "I am always serious; I am never serious." -Me
    "I make the most outrageous and exaggerated statements of any man to ever live, has ever lived, or that will ever live." -Me

  22. #22
    I'd like to thank people who have suggested the lore-master; now at level 52 and having a blast. It was exactly what I was looking for - jack of all trades with good DPS.

 

 

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