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  1. #1

    Legendary Solo Build: Memories of the first age

    Please read this entire thread before posting, for your sake and my own.

    Legendary Solo Build:
    Memories of the first age.
    - Separated from your companions you draw upon the songs and stories of the first age to inspire you from despair.

    Notes. -
    Captains have been tethered and balanced upon the following equation - (captain power = Personal contribution + Group buffs). There is nothing wrong with this equation, and it is good that we are balanced this way, however there is one major flaw. If we are not in a group then our total power is cut in half. There are 2 notions expressed on these forums that are particularly telling in this regard.
    1. Leveling a captain is slow and arduous, the dps is poor.
    2. We are an alting class. Or in other words the captain only logs in when a group is made, then logged out after.
    Over the past year we have seen two major requests on the forums.
    1. make heralds useful.
    2. give us dps. (this has always been denied because we are tethered to the above equation)
    Our current Developer, DEviled_Egg has truly made some head way here, more so than I have ever seen before. However we still have a long way to go, and we share that developer with other classes who also need work.

    The only way to fix the solo captain is to allow the ability to alter this equation. The only way to alter it while keeping the balance it entails is to create a new legendary trait...Memories of the first age. What this trait would do is subtract from "Group buffs" and add that same amount to "Personal Contribution" in such a way that the net total of "captain power" remains the same. By maintaining the same total the world around us remains in the same balance.

    How the legendary would be added.

    IDOME would drop off the legendary trait line and become a skill available without traiting. This would open up a free spot for a new legendary trait. This would allow us the room to have a capstone, while only having to choose between a defensive legendary or an offensive legendary. This is the only way I see to get this in, if you are concerned about the value of IDOME please see our threads on the subject from the captain library.

    Summary of Memories of the first age.
    We can currently have blade brother on us and a banner down, but we have to have a player in our group. Memories of the first age would allow us to do the same thing without a group and have a herald out.

    Details.
    Banner - When a banner is equipped both the internal and planted buffs are applied without planting, banner is un-plantable

    Herald -
    1. Herald armor is dropped entirely, all heralds become oathbreakers (Heralds are not currently powerful enough to make two different kinds and no one wants to walk around the battlefield with some homeless guy carrying a sign). You may now summon an oathbreaker herald at anytime or traitline. While Memories of the first age is traited heralds banner auras are turned off.
    2. Herald dmg matches weapon type. Example if you have beleriand then your herald will do beleriand
    3. Give herald reasonable finesse and agility (fix miss avoid chance).

    Blade Brother - While Memories of the first age is traited brother skills become a toggle and locked onto yourself and the herald. Brother skills cannot be applied to the group. SOW becomes toggled to on at 15% and To Arms is reduced to 12.5% dmg (effectively half to-arms power throughout S/bb/sb) and is toggled on at all times.

    PvP -
    Battle shout has a 50% chance to slow for -10% run speed for 10seconds.
    Last stands cool down is reduced to 5m (command set to make that 4m). It no longer prevents death, but gives us a 2.5k morale bubble for 1m and a 2min power POT. This is a value nerf to last stand, but an effective buff to it because Laststand is completely useless to anything but newbs who don't know they can't kite the 15s out with nothing to fear but battleshout.

    TLDR what value did we get?

    1. We can now have a herald along with our banner
    2. We reduced the miss avoid chance of herald, which can be 33% through agility and finesse on a "heavy" creep.
    3. We altered Last stand in such a way as to make it useful. A value nerf but effective buff, only applied while traited.
    4. We have oathbreaker heralds in any traitline.
    5. We now have a ranged slow that will allow us to reach a perma kiting opponent and increases our slow to a competitive level.
    6. IDOME, gets used again for things other than skirmishes.

    What miscellaneous value did we get?
    1. We removed banner plant, and it's consequential 268 power cost per plant
    2. We removed the need to replant the banner and lose 2s every time something moves outside it's range.
    3. We removed the conflict with morale banners planted value only occurring in range. Example if you are surprised by a creep then you have no planted value.
    4. We removed Hotswap emblem>Hotswap weapon>cast strength of will>cast To Arms>hotswap back>hotswap back out of our rotation while trying to defend ourselves against creep or npc attack or just plain battle prep before every attack.

    What did we lose.

    1. Banner aura for other players.
    2. Any brother skills for other players.
    3. Last stand as we know it. Only altered when legendary is traited.
    4. massive amounts of non dps battle prep and power lost to banner planting.

    *This is play style neutral. Other than getting IDOME for free, captain mechanics as they currently exist can be entirely maintained by not traiting Memories of the first age. If your getting hung up on IDOME please see our IDOME threads, you can find them under the "Legendary Traits" section of the "captain resources" section.

    *This thread is meant to convey concept. Consider all value changes Dev-balanced within the equation, ex herald dmg, BB etc.

    *While reading this thread you may wish to read the dev diary for Guardians as it will be referenced a lot under the assumption that the reader understands the ROR changes.
    Last edited by Armitas; Nov 26 2012 at 03:39 PM.
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  2. #2
    You say Captains lack DPS and you also say Heralds are useless. This is an oxy-moron. Traiting Loyalty and Banner of War significantly increases your Herald's DPS and hence your own as well.

    I can understand if Captains have problems in PvMP but I think your problem is you never traited Loyalty while leveling.


    EDIT: Also, Archers have significantly more DPS than a standard Herald.
    Last edited by Finnway; Nov 22 2012 at 11:04 AM.
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  3. #3
    ^^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    give me 15min to look over this before responding. Message will disappear after quality check.

    Are you unable to follow directions? I can tell I will have a jolly good time with this thread if people can't even read the first banner bolded and waffled. Not mad at you personally I just have nighmares of previous unread threads flooding back to memory and raising my general frustration at forum posting...along with my growing concern over the voyage of repetition I will soon embark on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnway View Post
    You say Captains lack DPS and you also say Heralds are useless. This is an oxy-moron. Traiting Loyalty and Banner of War significantly increases your Herald's DPS and hence your own as well.

    I can understand if Captains have problems in PvMP but I think your problem is you never traited Loyalty while leveling.


    EDIT: Also, Archers have significantly more DPS than a standard Herald.
    Oxymoron - I do not think it means what you think it means.

    In regards to herald dps go calculate it against a creep or any of the moors training dummies. Calculate the actual dps not damage. I can tell you now that with loyalty traited it is 10dps on kelsen and less on a reaver. On a reaver it's about 8dps which is less than the reavers icmr.

    I always have loyalty traited when I use a herald for pvp.

    IMO Heralds are good enough in pve. This is just the first step however. For those who want additional dps there is room to reblance the equation further along herald dps, should that be needed. But lets stick with the above for now.
    Last edited by Armitas; Nov 22 2012 at 12:00 PM.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Bulgaria
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    So, are you asking for in-depth change of class mechanics and skills just becouse you cannot solo in da moors?
    If YES - you are officially proclaimed for the Lendas of the Captains!

    If NO - I can understand how unique, exciting and simply great your proposal looks in your eyes, but you have to understand there will be people that may not see it like you do.

    Actually I liked some part of it, but then you started asking for too much, too many toggles at least. For example: I can agree exchanging IDOME for a new Legendary that enhances solo play could be a nice move, but I can see IDOME more like a part of yellow line instead of un-traited toggle, thats just too much.
    I hunt. I kill.

    Warden by destiny, Hunter in the heart.

  5. #5
    ^ See our threads about the value of Idome.

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyKOko View Post
    So, are you asking for in-depth change of class mechanics and skills just becouse you cannot solo in da moors?
    Yes, when there is no group to join I would like myself and other captains to effectivly be a part of the moors as much as any other class. This is both for pve and pvp, as the equation applies to both. I will reference the current mini which is a great raid healer and a great solo moors class, one that is currently holding first to second place among the creep OP list. I will also reference the current and peer-reviewed moors hierarchy list. I understand the Lendas reference but I don't care what title you bestow upon me, your nobody to give me one.

    Allowing you to summon a herald with a banner equipped is not in-depth. The only thing close to "in depth" might be the changes to last stand, which I mentioned is a value nerf.

    The toggled blade brother is equal in value to the current blade brother 100% except that now we don't waste 6-8 seconds on non dps hand waving.

    In total the "captain power" remains unchanged per the equation variables.
    Last edited by Armitas; Nov 22 2012 at 12:46 PM.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    ^ See our threads about the value of Idome.

    Yes, when there is no group to join I would like myself and other captains to effectivly be a part of the moors as much as any other class.
    To be fair, Captain PvP is kinda sluggish if you're not in a group. Although if you do ditch all your healing stuff to build for DPS it will improve. But if you're gonna do that you might as well roll a champ. So I see where he's coming from on this.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
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    206
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    Please read this entire thread before posting, for your sake and my own.

    Legendary Solo Build:
    Memories of the first age.
    - Separated from your companions you draw upon the songs and stories of the first age to inspire you from despair.

    Notes. -
    Captains have been tethered and balanced upon the following equation - (captain power = Personal contribution + Group buffs). There is nothing wrong with this equation, and it is good that we are balanced this way, however there is one major flaw. If we are not in a group then our total power is cut in half. There are 2 notions expressed on these forums that are particularly telling in this regard.
    1. Leveling a captain is slow and arduous, the dps is poor.
    2. We are an alting class. Or in other words the captain only logs in when a group is made, then logged out after.
    Over the past year we have seen two major requests on the forums.
    1. make heralds useful.
    2. give us dps. (this has always been denied because we are tethered to the above equation)
    Our current Developer, DEviled_Egg has truly made some head way here, more so than I have ever seen before. However we still have a long way to go, and we share that developer with other classes who also need work.

    The only way to fix the solo captain is to allow the ability to alter this equation. The only way to alter it while keeping the balance it entails is to create a new legendary trait...Memories of the first age. What this trait would do is subtract from "Group buffs" and add that same amount to "Personal Contribution" in such a way that the net total of "captain power" remains the same. By maintaining the same total the world around us remains in the same balance.

    How the legendary would be added.

    IDOME would drop off the legendary trait line and become a skill available without traiting. This would open up a free spot for a new legendary trait. This would allow us the room to have a capstone, while only having to choose between a defensive legendary or an offensive legendary. This is the only way I see to get this in, if you are concerned about the value of IDOME please see our threads on the subject from the captain library.

    Summary of Memories of the first age.
    We can currently have blade brother on us and a banner down, but we have to have a player in our group. Memories of the first age would allow us to do the same thing without a group and have a herald out.

    Details.
    Banner - When a banner is equipped both the internal and planted buffs are applied without planting, banner is un-plantable

    Herald -
    1. Herald armor is dropped entirely, all heralds become oathbreakers (Heralds are not currently powerful enough to make two different kinds and no one wants to walk around the battlefield with some homeless guy carrying a sign). You may now summon an oathbreaker herald at anytime or traitline. While Memories of the first age is traited heralds banner auras are turned off.
    2. Herald dmg matches weapon type. Example if you have beleriand then your herald will do beleriand
    3. Give herald reasonable finesse and agility (fix miss avoid chance).

    Blade Brother - While Memories of the first age is traited brother skills become a toggle and locked onto yourself and the herald. Brother skills cannot be applied to the group. SOW becomes toggled to on at 15% and To Arms is reduced to 12.5% dmg (effectively half to-arms power throughout S/bb/sb) and is toggled on at all times.

    PvP -
    Battle shout has a 50% chance to slow for -10% run speed for 10seconds.
    Last stands cool down is reduced to 5m (command set to make that 4m). It no longer prevents death, but gives us a 2.5k morale bubble for 1m and a 2min power POT. This is a value nerf to last stand, but an effective buff to it because Laststand is completely useless to anything but newbs who don't know they can't kite the 15s out with nothing to fear but battleshout.

    TLDR what value did we get?

    1. We can now have a herald along with our banner
    2. We reduced the miss avoid chance of herald, which can be 33% through agility and finesse on a "heavy" creep.
    3. We altered Last stand in such a way as to make it useful. A value nerf but effective buff, only applied while traited.
    4. We have oathbreaker heralds in any traitline.
    5. We now have a ranged slow that will allow us to reach a perma kiting opponent and increases our slow to a competitive level.
    6. IDOME, gets used again for things other than skirmishes.

    What miscellaneous value did we get?
    1. We removed banner plant, and it's consequential 268 power cost per plant
    2. We removed the need to replant the banner and lose 2s every time something moves outside it's range.
    3. We removed the conflict with morale banners planted value only occurring in range. Example if you are surprised by a creep then you have no planted value.
    4. We removed Hotswap emblem>Hotswap weapon>cast strength of will>cast To Arms>hotswap back>hotswap back out of our rotation while trying to defend ourselves against creep or npc attack or just plain battle prep before every attack.

    What did we lose.

    1. Banner aura for other players.
    2. Any brother skills for other players.
    3. Last stand as we know it. Only altered when legendary is traited.
    4. massive amounts of non dps battle prep and power lost to banner planting.

    *This is play style neutral. Other than getting IDOME for free, captain mechanics as they currently exist can be entirely maintained by not traiting Memories of the first age.

    *This thread is meant to convey concept. Consider all value changes Dev-balanced within the equation, ex herald dmg, BB etc.
    Instead of a trait, it could be a stance, like the hunters and champs have.. while u are using the captain solo stance, all this you told is applied to the captain...thus we could switch from solo stance to group when needed without having to search for a bard...
    [b][size=3][FONT=Garamond][color=#8B0000][center]HELGRIMM OF ELENDILMIR[/color][/FONT][/size][/b][color=#696969][i]Still I'm pushing onward, alone I can't deny
    My presence fills the desert, my spirit never dies![/i][/color][/center]
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  8. #8
    Yeah stance would work and it's a lot easier than retraiting every time. I hesitated to put it in there because I know there is a good portion of the crowd here that is anti-stance. I'd be cool with it either way. As long as something allows us to alter that equation I'm good with it.

    I will leave it like it is, but a stance is most certainly a viable candidate on altering that equation and one that would lay right over top of all this..so imagine it in the way you prefer.
    Last edited by Armitas; Nov 22 2012 at 06:31 PM.
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  9. #9
    I will say this first - after having played exclusively as a captain for a long time and then spending the last few weeks as a warden, the deficiencies of the captain class stand out a little more to me now. The difference between playing a captain vs. a warden is like night and day, and this difference really comes to light in solo skirmishes. Whereas I always have to stay on my toes with a captain + herbalist even on Tier I solo, my warden + archer now breezes through them with almost no survivability concerns, even in Storm on Methedras, which used to be challenging.

    But that being said, the captain is still a support class. That is his prominent role, and no one does it better than he does. The entire class is built around it. It would take much more than what you're suggesting to increase his solo capability - it would require a complete redesign of the class, and I just don't see that happening. He was designed to be played in groups, and no other class even comes close to bringing what a captain brings to a group. Yes, that means we have to suffer a little more in solo play, but that's how it is.

    If you're that eager on solo play, I would recommend starting another class and using that one for it. Warden is a great choice. I still love my captain and consider him my main, and he is a blast in groups, but when I want to play alone or can't find anyone, I have my warden. The most important rewards I get on my warden can still be used on my captain, so I'm really not losing much for either class.

    What I bring to a group as a captain is unmatched by any other class. The developers are very big on concept, and they will not be willing to make the class so solo-friendly without giving up some of his group benefits, and I wouldn't give those up for anything. They are what make a captain a captain.

    In response to your specific suggestions:

    1.) IDOME as a regular skill would work, but it would have to be scaled back (to about half). Yes, I've read the threads about the minimal benefits compared to other legendary skills, etc., but no matter how you look at it, +85 to everything is still noteworthy enough to be a legendary trait when you consider that it's a toggle skill with no buildup or other requirements.

    2.) I do not agree with your concept of having a banner and herald at the same time. Being able to have the +physical mastery of a banner +unlimited blade brother even at 12.5% is far too OP. The only reason we get physical mastery on our banners is because we lose the attack of the herald, so for this to work, you would have to remove all physical mastery bonuses from all of the banners. Truthfully, I would rather see that anyway - let banners just give the banner effects (morale, power, or might/agility), and do away with the regular herald. Make all the heralds archers and give them the morale/power share abilities with it, along with morale of the regular heralds. And then make the brother skills just like War Cry - give them the ability to always stay up, in solo or grouping. The boost is only 25% - it's very helpful but it will not be game-breaking to let it stay up 100% of the time instead of 50% of the time. But it does need to actually be used - not a toggle skill.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by SentinelBasch View Post
    But that being said, the captain is still a support class. That is his prominent role, and no one does it better than he does. The entire class is built around it. It would take much more than what you're suggesting to increase his solo capability - it would require a complete redesign of the class, and I just don't see that happening. He was designed to be played in groups, and no other class even comes close to bringing what a captain brings to a group. Yes, that means we have to suffer a little more in solo play, but that's how it is.

    If you're that eager on solo play, I would recommend starting another class and using that one for it. Warden is a great choice. I still love my captain and consider him my main, and he is a blast in groups, but when I want to play alone or can't find anyone, I have my warden. The most important rewards I get on my warden can still be used on my captain, so I'm really not losing much for either class.

    What I bring to a group as a captain is unmatched by any other class. The developers are very big on concept, and they will not be willing to make the class so solo-friendly without giving up some of his group benefits, and I wouldn't give those up for anything. They are what make a captain a captain.
    This.

    I play my Captain for the sole reason that he's awesome in group play and you can really feel the difference between having a good Captain or bad/no Captain in a fellowship.

    While Captains are a absolute pain to lvl, he's alright in solo when well geared. When you get to lvl 85 and start reaching 2.3-2.6k might and 24-30% melee crit chance you're actually doing decent DPS in LtC while still having loads of heals, and Mounted Combat on Captain just insane at the moment.

    While I guess a stance similar to the Minstrels War-speech might be nice, I really don't think Captains should be changed as radically as you do it here.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    I like the concept of being able to use a banner and herald at the same time, while also sacrificing some of our survivability and group buffing capability (out of combat buffs don't count IMO). Like the guardians, wardens, and minis before us, we are long overdue for a VIABLE DPS stance.

    To prevent a derail: The entire captain/herald relationship needs work. I strongly feel that the damage type sharing should be baseline herald stuff, and that the herald and skirmish system should be married into a stronger herald.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SentinelBasch View Post

    If you're that eager on solo play, I would recommend starting another class and using that one for it. Warden is a great choice.
    This just should not be. It's poor design to have a class that is not entirely fulfilled. It should be embarrassing to Turbine that the notions I posted at the top are so readily confirmed. Having to roll a second class to make up for a certain portion of underdevelopment is just plain bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by SentinelBasch View Post
    It would take much more than what you're suggesting to increase his solo capability
    I agree. This is only the first step but a necessary one. I don't want anyone to be confused about this thread. The purpose of "Memories of the first age" legendary is to allow us the option to re-balance the variables in the equation. This legendary is the #1 reason for this thread because it is the only foundation upon which our class can grow in the solo spectrum without breaking the world balance. The equation total MUST remain the same, only the variables can change. At any rate the "details" are just steps on a path, the foundation is what really matters. If we don't get that foundation in we won't ever get there.

    Quote Originally Posted by SentinelBasch View Post

    The developers are very big on concept, and they will not be willing to make the class so solo-friendly without giving up some of his group benefits, and I wouldn't give those up for anything.
    These are only given up by choice. You voluntarily give them up because you are playing solo by traiting the trait. Without traiting it all things remain the same (save IDOME)

    Quote Originally Posted by SentinelBasch View Post
    1.) IDOME no matter how you look at it, +85 to everything is still noteworthy enough to be a legendary trait when you consider that it's a toggle skill with no buildup or other requirements.
    Menace put a lot of data and numbers into that thread. The only rebuttal has been "Idome, its just awesome when you combine it all" but I have seen no data as to the value of that combination. I'm going to need hard proof, not here, to believe it. I am a strong believer in Gestalt theory, but I still need the hard data at the end of it. (not here please).

    Quote Originally Posted by SentinelBasch View Post
    2.) I do not agree with your concept of having a banner and herald at the same time. Being able to have the +physical mastery of a banner +unlimited blade brother even at 12.5% is far too OP.
    Why? why is this OP when you just said it doesn't go far enough? Where do you think our dps will be in comparison to other classes? Blade brother with banner down is already happening now, we are only adding a herald. Our herald dps is about 8-10dps on some reavers. How will adding 10dps to the already currently used BB and banner combo make us OP? DPS classes can reach 4 and 5k dps, best I have heard out of cappies is 1700. What is 10 dps on top of that? Will archer dps single-handedly bridge the 2-3k dps gap? As far as the blade brother it is exactly equal to the current one, it's just that now you don't have to waste time hotswaping and casting while attacked (30seconds at 25% = 12.5% at 1m). By making this a toggle you are adding around ~150dps (3x 2second casts in a minute parse is now removed from the parse or 1400 avgdps x 60seconds = 8400dmg/ 54 seconds = dps added..ish.), so by removing the toggle you are nerfing the change way too much.

    You have your warden to fall back on, but I'm going to stay here and hold out for what is right. And what is right is for our class to be completely fulfilled, rather than an alt class. Alt classes are a sign of poor development. Our current dev has taken the first strides into this territory and I have hope that she will keep it up.
    Last edited by Armitas; Nov 26 2012 at 06:29 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    Alt classes are a sign of poor development.
    This really is the crux of the larger discussion.

    I think it's safe to say that everybody here plays a captain at least in part because they love the idea of what the captain brings to a group. They like the idea of a support class, and they like the playstyle of being a force-multiplier. I don't think anybody is arguing or would argue that.

    I'd invite everybody, though, to look through the first 3 or 4 pages of this forum. Find all the "new captain question" posts where somebody is asking what captains do, how they play, how much fun they are, or that talk about the pain they're feeling as a level 30 captain. I'd challenge anybody to find one that DOESN'T eventually tell the questioner "get a group; captains don't really shine unless you have a group to run with."

    That game-design concept is simply flat-out broken.

    The fact is, 100% of players, and 100% of classes, solo for something. Leveling, skirm grinding, farming, PvMP until they join a group, whatever, everybody does it at some point or another. Currently, 8/9 LOTRO classes can do so with a minimum amount of pain...1/9 can't. That makes the 1/9 an incomplete class. 8/9 can participate without undue pain in both group and non-group content. 1/9 can only do so for group content. If any class compels you to either find a group immediately upon login, or log a different class, that's a problem. It just slays me that some people insist on pointing to a captain's group utility, and somehow try to use that as justification for why the solo Captain experience has to be manifestly more painful than everybody else's.

    I can remember the days of pre-BC WoW, where once the raid was over, and everybody broke up to farm/PvP/quest/whatever, all the priests, druids, paladins, and shammies would all log out....you could watch it in guild chat...10 people would log out, and 10 alts would log in. Blizzard finally realized how horrible that design was, and started taking steps to fix it.

    Different game, with different construction? Of course. I don't think anybody wants to see LOTRO go down the same path of class homogeneity. The design concept, however, remains the same...you shouldn't ever be compelled to log a different character to perform basic MMO functions.

    Is Armitas' suggestion the cure-all for the issue? No, it's got flaws...the biggest is the one already pointed out: a legendary trait fix doesn't help the first 50 levels of existence. But I agree wholeheartedly with the idea behind it...let's at least get the ball moving in the right direction. As the wise hobbit said, "It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish."

    And yes, captains CAN obviously complete any current landscape content; this is obvious, or there'd be precious few level 85 captains. Can you honestly say they're as complete as the other 8 classes when doing so? Are they in any way more painful to do so with? Are there large level ranges where the pain is more clear? Why can't steps be taken to correct that?
    Last edited by Ailedra; Dec 30 2012 at 01:38 PM.
    The forums are not an accurate representation of the thoughts and feelings of the whole player base. Those who like a particular feature are in the game enjoying that feature. Those who don't like it log out to mention it on the forums. It is a relevant but biased source of feedback, and any claims of community desire should take this fact into account.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    [SIZE=4][B][COLOR=#ff8c00]Please read this entire thread before posting, for your sake and my own.

    Notes. -
    Captains have been tethered and balanced upon the following equation - (captain power = Personal contribution + Group buffs). There is nothing wrong with this equation, and it is good that we are balanced this way, however there is one major flaw. If we are not in a group then our total power is cut in half. There are 2 notions expressed on these forums that are particularly telling in this regard.
    1. Leveling a captain is slow and arduous, the dps is poor.
    2. We are an alting class. Or in other words the captain only logs in when a group is made, then logged out after.
    Over the past year we have seen two major requests on the forums.
    1. make heralds useful.
    2. give us dps. (this has always been denied because we are tethered to the above equation)
    Our current Developer, DEviled_Egg has truly made some head way here, more so than I have ever seen before. However we still have a long way to go, and we share that developer with other classes who also need work.
    First sorry english isn't my usual speaking.

    Read the post and their is some great idea and even if I'm a total noob to the captain class I have a vast experience as MMO player so I have seen a lot of failed and success class balance.

    "jack of all trades" class have the potential to be borderline overpowered to be borderline gimped in a MMO and its all depend on the conception of the class.


    A) A well balanced jack of all trades can,t have a gimped DPS (usualy lower then 70% of what a pure DPS can do is gimped from what I have seen in many games). If you deal half the damage of another class in a 6man group you'd need insane buff to make it for the damage you do vs what another damage dealing class could bring.

    B) If your grouped DPS is fine usualy your solo killing speed will be. Yes you deal less DPS in group because you bring buffs, but you can solo with these buff as the other class won't have you buffing them whent hey will be soloing. And this is not true in LotRO as a champ AoE solo damage unbuffed is so much more then what a cappy can do with his own buff.

    C) jack of all trade usualy have "tools" the pure damage dealer don't, like CC,Invis, debuff and the content as been made around this.

    If class A can use his tool to split/skip a pack of enemies it is useless if class B can just RAMBO the contant and destroy it as quick as your ability to kill only 1 of them, your tools as useless.

    I don't think captain should be re-worked in a way they can trade their "group-like" abilities to gain what the damage dealer class can deal.

    I think they should just re-think about how they are balancing the class right now. Cappy just seems to give too much damage in order to bring utilities.
    Last edited by varlak74; May 06 2013 at 11:39 AM.

 

 

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