Gladden Ettenmoores: What do you consider as a Win?

[DaxMaxtor]

An example might be that someone who plays not to dye, might consider getting 5 stars a win and I consider that legit and a challenge of sort.

Someone else might measure a Win by how many time they die compared to their opposition or achieving a higher rank.

One might even measure Winning by how much Infamy/Renown they obtain.

I'm just curious to what each of you consider winning?

For myself, I consider myself traditional and play to what they have given me to play with, which is a "Capture the Flag" scenario.
An example might be this morning's fight where I died 7 times as compared to the majority Freeps I was facing only died maybe a couple of times each during some Outpost fights. In the end, they were back at GV and the Map was Red.

So what I consider a Win is anytime the Map is Red and we've forced the Freeps back to hiding in the NPC's at the Steps, That is a Win.. I then get to go about my pve'ing uninhibited and free roaming the only little area we Creeps have to roam until a call goes out to come defend our land again...

[DOABADKARMA2]

An example might be that someone who plays not to dye

Why not dye!?

[DrunkshipOfLanterns]

a win is when both sides fight to the death every time and don't quit till 12pm.

a win hasn't happened on a regular basis for sometime now.

[Emiele]

WIN: Sustained fights. Creep VS Freep. Equal force/numbers. Smart strategies. Challenging.

LOSS: The opposite. You may have temporarily 'won' or wiped the opposition but you've lost by forcing them to quit.

[Blazing_Clouds]

WIN: Sustained fights. Creep VS Freep. Equal force/numbers. Smart strategies. Challenging.

LOSS: The opposite. You may have temporarily 'won' or wiped the opposition but you've lost by forcing them to quit.

Which is exactly what freeps do... that's the dif between freeps v creeps... we keep coming back, and keep coming back and keep coming back... we may not always be organized or have good strategies, but we don't give up that easy(there are always exceptions of course) just because the freeps are more afraid of dieing and like to quit because they loose, isn't our fault. I don't know the reasons they log, and maybe its because its getting late and they all have lives... I don't really know. its pvp... not hide in gv till we have enough to wipe the creeps! I die... a lot... and I am like gun, I don't care if i die as long as the rez isn't on the other side of the map. lol



I am like E on this, I consider it a win, when freeps don't log after wiping 2-3 times. last night being a good example. vic had a raid, flipped the map blue and actually stayed after they wiped a couple times, but it was short lived after we wiped them outside of tr. but it was a very fun night and the freeps fought very well and actually got more kills than we did, but in the end we had more rezzes than them and they logged because they "wiped" even though they got more than we did during the fights.

But anywho, I definitely consider it a win when the freeps come out to fight and don't log when the creeps get organized.
I come to the moors to fight... and no other reason. if I wanted to pve I'd play my freep, but I don't that often. if the freeps log, yes it is a loss, for everyone involved, they can get renown for killing us while they are off and vis versa.

so on that note... freeps... please stay out and kill me, so I have a chance to kill you too... its just no fun without you

[Lathius]

An example might be that someone who plays not to dye, might consider getting 5 stars a win and I consider that legit and a challenge of sort.

Someone else might measure a Win by how many time they die compared to their opposition or achieving a higher rank.

One might even measure Winning by how much Infamy/Renown they obtain.

I'm just curious to what each of you consider winning?

For myself, I consider myself traditional and play to what they have given me to play with, which is a "Capture the Flag" scenario.
An example might be this morning's fight where I died 7 times as compared to the majority Freeps I was facing only died maybe a couple of times each during some Outpost fights. In the end, they were back at GV and the Map was Red.

So what I consider a Win is anytime the Map is Red and we've forced the Freeps back to hiding in the NPC's at the Steps, That is a Win.. I then get to go about my pve'ing uninhibited and free roaming the only little area we Creeps have to roam until a call goes out to come defend our land again...

My preferred win would be fights that were sustained and both sides pushing thoughout the map to keep the fights going. However, that does not happen that often so I change my wins depending on the situation.

I consider it a win when a creep runs back to the group and I manage to hit sprint, finish the kill, and manage to come back out alive.

I consider it a win to get a kb with let it fly!

I consider it a win to just enjoy the moors and I definately consider it a win when we have a designated drinking game for the evening.

[TQDesign]

Which is exactly what freeps do... that's the dif between freeps v creeps... we keep coming back, and keep coming back and keep coming back... we may not always be organized or have good strategies, but we don't give up that easy(there are always exceptions of course) just because the freeps are more afraid of dieing and like to quit because they loose, isn't our fault. I don't know the reasons they log, and maybe its because its getting late and they all have lives... I don't really know. its pvp... not hide in gv till we have enough to wipe the creeps! I die... a lot... and I am like gun, I don't care if i die as long as the rez isn't on the other side of the map. lol



I am like E on this, I consider it a win, when freeps don't log after wiping 2-3 times. last night being a good example. vic had a raid, flipped the map blue and actually stayed after they wiped a couple times, but it was short lived after we wiped them outside of tr. but it was a very fun night and the freeps fought very well and actually got more kills than we did, but in the end we had more rezzes than them and they logged because they "wiped" even though they got more than we did during the fights.

But anywho, I definitely consider it a win when the freeps come out to fight and don't log when the creeps get organized.
I come to the moors to fight... and no other reason. if I wanted to pve I'd play my freep, but I don't that often. if the freeps log, yes it is a loss, for everyone involved, they can get renown for killing us while they are off and vis versa.

so on that note... freeps... please stay out and kill me, so I have a chance to kill you too... its just no fun without you

This is kinda, funny? Creeps do it too, bud. The only reason you might think freeps do it more, is because (Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but this is how I feel) if I'm getting farmed and I'm really not having fun dying, I'll go somewhere other than the moors, like level an alt. Unlike the creeps, I'm not stuck in the moors.
Make sense? No? idk. I'm not even making sense to myself right now

[Ravyrn]

Creeps certainly disburse when things go south just as freeps do. I've put in ample time on both sides of the fence. Led many raids on both sides of the fence. More than enough to say without a doubt that both sides are guilty of logging when the going gets tough. I'd say at least 50% of the time when me, Aris, Del, or Tarvin have formed raids to bust up a creep or freep farmfest, within 20 minutes, 75% of the population on the opposing side that had been content farming for multiple hours at someone's oneshots, suddenly log off.

When freeps are in farm mode, they're perfectly content sitting at creep oneshots farming to their heart's content and criticizing creeps for being cowards.

When creeps are in farm mode, they're perfectly content sitting at freep onehsots farming to their heart's content and criticizing the freeps for being cowards.

Both sides are guilty of the same acts. When criticizing in the Moors, it's best to include one's self in your criticism. Odds are, you've done it before.

With that said, there's been quite a few threads since RoR that have criticized freeps for sitting in GV, or this, or that. You critics should be thanking the freeps that have been out and giving you something to do. If not for the few that have stuck it out, creeps would have nothing more than Goldie, An, Ost, Delving Bosses, and other dailies to do. Hell, I don't even know if you can still do Counter Assault lol. Without a doubt, the Ettenmoors is currently the most challenging it has ever been for freeps. I would suggest you critics aiming your criticism at those who are largely responsible for the current inactivity on freepside, the "ezmoders/fotmers" or whatever you'd like to call them. All the players who had been perfectly content on camping oc/lug rez for most of RoI, and now who are perfectly content on camping GV. The players who flock to whichever side is easy to get the easy renown/infamy.

I am like E on this, I consider it a win, when freeps don't log after wiping 2-3 times. last night being a good example. vic had a raid, flipped the map blue and actually stayed after they wiped a couple times, but it was short lived after we wiped them outside of tr. but it was a very fun night and the freeps fought very well and actually got more kills than we did, but in the end we had more rezzes than them and they logged because they "wiped" even though they got more than we did during the fights.

I like how you presume to know the reasons for my logging. I hardly logged because we "wiped". We had been out for a few hours by that point. We had wiped plenty of creeps and done some wiping ourselves. It was past midnight, I hadn't eaten dinner yet, so I called it a night. I would assume after my departure the same thing happened that often happens on creepside when Grog or Spider log... the raid disbands.

To all you critics out there of freeps, I cordially invite and will welcome any of you with open arms to come play on freepside. You can come solo, or better yet, you can come fill up, coordinate, and lead a freep raid. I'm sure I speak for more than myself, when I say we'd all love to see how long you guys last.

xoxoxo

-Vic

[Witch0King]

To all you critics out there of freeps, I cordially invite and will welcome any of you with open arms to come play on freepside. You can come solo, or better yet, you can come fill up, coordinate, and lead a freep raid. I'm sure I speak for more than myself, when I say we'd all love to see how long you guys last.

xoxoxo

-Vic

I guess you can say, the losing side will probably log.

And I prefer running duo with my cappy, no time for raids

[DrunkshipOfLanterns]

Originally Posted by Ravyrn

To all you critics out there of freeps, I cordially invite and will welcome any of you with open arms to come play on freepside. You can come solo, or better yet, you can come fill up, coordinate, and lead a freep raid. I'm sure I speak for more than myself, when I say we'd all love to see how long you guys last.

xoxoxo

-Vic

----ok buddy----

http://youtu.be/GGXzlRoNtHU

[DaxMaxtor]

Without a doubt, the Ettenmoors is currently the most challenging it has ever been for freeps.

It's not even close to being the most challenging it has ever been for either side. It's this miss-perception that's causing a lot of the flipflopping and quitting that's going on. As a matter of fact (Excluding soloing) it's actually the most balanced it's ever been in this game.

You can also contribute the general PVE mentality for the lack of participation and a good example is:

if I'm getting farmed and I'm really not having fun dying, I'll go somewhere other than the moors, like level an alt. Unlike the creeps, I'm not stuck in the moors.

While on the other hand you have someone like:

So I had a dream the other night... I was myself but I was in the moors where ec used to be and there was a present day house there... Almost like a frat house where myself and others who played lotro lived. The people I was partying with were freeps. I remember looking out the window and we were afraid to go into the woods. Funny how this about sums up the free people anymore. Remember - dying in game doesn't do anything to you in real life.

Eunuch has been fighting on his Creep since day one and is a hard core pvp'r.. He will even call someone like Ronnug/Gunnor a care-bear and I can't argue the point because of his perspective and time committed.

While a PVE'r will run back to doing the same quest over and over on Freep-side instead of dieing, Eunuch finds ways of making his PVP fun and challenging.

[Fendrone]

It's not even close to being the most challenging it has ever been for either side. It's this miss-perception that's causing a lot of the flipflopping and quitting that's going on. As a matter of fact (Excluding soloing) it's actually the most balanced it's ever been in this game.

You included "excluding soloing" which contradicts everything you said about it not being the most challenging its ever been for freeps. Freeps could always solo before, creeps still can.

[KneelBeforeZod]

pvp win = crush your enemies, see them driven from the ettenmoors, and to hear the lamentations of their QQ'ing leaders....

[cshamblin]

Old PVP win = The old hotspot fights that would last +30 minutes. Lots of death on both sides. Everyone stayed until only one side had anyone left standing.

Now PVP win = ....

I've had a few fun nights with small groups. Running with Lath, Pause, Croner(s) and others have been pretty cool. Just haven't seen any real well matched open field fights. Seems when there is something open field one side just gets rolled.

[shark1979]

Old PVP win = The old hotspot fights that would last +30 minutes. Lots of death on both sides. Everyone stayed until only one side had anyone left standing.

Now PVP win = ....

I've had a few fun nights with small groups. Running with Lath, Pause, Croner(s) and others have been pretty cool. Just haven't seen any real well matched open field fights. Seems when there is something open field one side just gets rolled.

There have been a few well sustained battles since RoR but they have been few and far between.

[Light12]

i consider it a win when i charge into a group of freeps, and hit all my skills, kill someone, wound a bunch of others, and get a bunch of comms before and after i hit the ground. i like to play in a suicidal fashion.

[DaxMaxtor]

You included "excluding soloing" which contradicts everything you said about it not being the most challenging its ever been for freeps. Freeps could always solo before, creeps still can.

Dear, there was an Ettenmoors before you or Vic came along and ask any of the folks that played in the beginning and they'll tell you that at times on both sides, it was way tougher than it is now. In recent history, Creeps had it way tougher just pre-RoR than what Freeps have it now..

Just one example, Gunnor took 4 1/2 yrs to hit rank 10 while Ronnug is nearly Rank 10 in about a year (as Eunuch might say, "that is some care bear chit")..
I've seen the time that 3/4 of a Creep Raid wiped 2 full Freep Raids at Ost Ringdar with all the npc's helping the Freeps.
So no, this isn't the most challenging time ever for Freeps. Not even close..

PS: Oh, someone needs to tell Nudes that you can't solo in the Moores and while your at it, remind him that Creeps are OP? He hasn't recieved that memo either..
Also tell Perch and the small group he's been running with that they can't be doing what they have either? Against even numbers, they've been kicking some booty.. The problem is, Creeps are so hungry for a fight that those numbers don't stay equal too long.

[the_blah]

So no, this isn't the most challenging time ever for Freeps. Not even close..

This, coming from some one that has not played freep side during this expansion. How can you even compare? Silly Gunnor.

[Witch0King]

What I consider a win, is when I'm not zerged after 2min...........

[DaxMaxtor]

This, coming from some one that has not played freep side during this expansion. How can you even compare? Silly Gunnor.

It is silly isn't it? Almost as silly as someone who flipflops and still hasn't a clue.. That's kinda like being told I needed to play the opposition in order to learn how to fight them. I always preferred learning how to fight them by fighting them.. Silly Gunnor!!!

[usernamealreadyinuse]

Killing as many creeps as possible and dying as little as possible. That's what I would consider a win.


You should bring your guard to the moors Gunnor if you think this isnt the most challenging time for freeps. For guardians at least, this is the worst we have ever been in the moors IMO.

[Ravyrn]

Originally Posted by Ravyrn

To all you critics out there of freeps, I cordially invite and will welcome any of you with open arms to come play on freepside. You can come solo, or better yet, you can come fill up, coordinate, and lead a freep raid. I'm sure I speak for more than myself, when I say we'd all love to see how long you guys last.

xoxoxo

-Vic

----ok buddy----

http://youtu.be/GGXzlRoNtHU

Cass, I'm pretty sure Nirrti or some other member of our kinship already claimed this video and song as our kinship's theme song. I'll see if I can dig up the post, and then you can take up claim to this youtube video with them.

[Ravyrn]

Dear, there was an Ettenmoors before you or Vic came along and ask any of the folks that played in the beginning and they'll tell you that at times on both sides, it was way tougher than it is now. In recent history, Creeps had it way tougher just pre-RoR than what Freeps have it now..

Just one example, Gunnor took 4 1/2 yrs to hit rank 10 while Ronnug is nearly Rank 10 in about a year (as Eunuch might say, "that is some care bear chit")..
I've seen the time that 3/4 of a Creep Raid wiped 2 full Freep Raids at Ost Ringdar with all the npc's helping the Freeps.
So no, this isn't the most challenging time ever for Freeps. Not even close..

PS: Oh, someone needs to tell Nudes that you can't solo in the Moores and while your at it, remind him that Creeps are OP? He hasn't recieved that memo either..
Also tell Perch and the small group he's been running with that they can't be doing what they have either? Against even numbers, they've been kicking some booty.. The problem is, Creeps are so hungry for a fight that those numbers don't stay equal too long.

I really don't see how any other era of pvp could be tougher for freeps than it is now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its impossible for freeps to have success, I've had some measure of success in small groups and raids that I've led or been a part of lately. I started pvping in May of '08, I'm pretty sure if anything it was easier for freeps before that time. No diminishing returns on CC? Burgs stacking dite until creeps walked backwards? I believe, from a purely balance standpoint, it is tougher now than it has ever been for freeps.

I don't doubt there were times when 3/4 of a creep raid farmed 2 raids of freeps in Ost. I would imagine that 3/4 of creep raid consisted of CTA, NQ, and Phalanx creeps led by Genbu/Aeons against the noob brigade led by Valistar/Ooty/Kalib. 18 of the best pvpers on the server vs 48 of some of the worst.

Also, where has anyone in this thread stated creeps were OP? In fact, I haven't seen a single thread of freeps crying, and alll that has been said from players of freeps in this thread is that creeps do the same thing they cry about and that this is the most challenging era for freeps thus far. I wouldn't say creeps are OP, but I'd say they definitely have an edge over freeps, if solely due to their extraordinary morale pools. Not to say it's impossible, but I'd wager it is highly improbable that I could defeat most creeps that have a morale pool larger than 24k on my hunter. I've had some measure of success on Vic solo, but in most cases I don't see myself defeating a half decent creep on my hunter. 9k morale vs 24k+ morale... not very likely.

PS: In reference to you ranking up a creep to rank 10 in a year compared to 4.5 years on Gunnor, how much of that infamy was from questing? Not really a fair comparison. And with these statistics, can you honestly try to argue that it isn't easier than it ever has been for creeps? Gunnor has gotten past rank 9 in about 13 weeks of pvp.

[DaxMaxtor]

I really don't see how any other era of pvp could be tougher for freeps than it is now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its impossible for freeps to have success, I've had some measure of success in small groups and raids that I'd led or been a part of lately. I started pvping in May of '08, I'm pretty sure if anything it was easier for freeps before that time. No diminishing returns on CC? Burgs stacking dite until creeps walked backwards? I believe, from a purely balance standpoint, it is tougher now than it has ever been for freeps.

I don't doubt there were times when 3/4 of a creep raid farmed 2 raids of freeps in Ost. I would imagine that 3/4 of creep raid consisted of CTA, NQ, and Phalanx creeps led by Genbu/Aeons against the noob brigade led by Valistar/Ooty/Kalib. 18 of the best pvpers on the server vs 48 of some of the worst.

Also, where has anyone in this thread stated creeps were OP? All that has been said from players of freeps in this thread is that creeps do the same thing they cry about and that this is the most challenging era for freeps thus far. I wouldn't say creeps are OP, but I'd say they definitely have an edge over freeps if solely due to their extraordinary morale pools. Not to say it's impossible, but I'd wager it is highly improbable that I could defeat most creeps that have a morale pool larger than 24k on my hunter. I've had some measure of success on Vic solo, but in most cases I don't see myself defeating a half decent creep on my hunter. 9k morale vs 24k+ morale... not very likely.

PS: In reference to you ranking up a creep to rank 10 in a year compared to 4.5 years on Gunnor, how much of that infamy was from questing? Not really a fair comparison.

Vic, I think your missing the point here.. With the exception of those few times that Val would rage log and tell others to do the same, Ooty, Kalib and I with many many more kept coming out and trying til we did manage to have some measure of success. Unlike the last raid I saw you lead where you died at least a couple of time running away from the fight.. I'm guessing you were considering it a win if you escaped and maintained that rating and/or Stars while leaving your raid behind to die huh?

Again, I guess a Win is different things for different folks. Also, to reiterate on something Clown said, How can you judge when you weren't even there?

Same ol Vic.. Never wrong and knows it all.. <snicker>

PS for your PS:

PS: In reference to you ranking up a creep to rank 10 in a year compared to 4.5 years on Gunnor, how much of that infamy was from questing? Not really a fair comparison. And with these statistics, can you honestly try to argue that it isn't easier than it ever has been for creeps? Gunnor has gotten past rank 9 in about 13 weeks of pvp.

Freeps now have access to the same amount of Renown as Creeps do Infamy. So yes, it's way easier to rank up on Creep as well as Freep.. That surely seems balanced to me.. Also, ask Perch if he and his small Groups aren't actually getting more kills than deaths? The difference there is they actually have to die to get them.. Again, Balance...

[DaxMaxtor]

I don't doubt there were times when 3/4 of a creep raid farmed 2 raids of freeps in Ost. I would imagine that 3/4 of creep raid consisted of CTA, NQ, and Phalanx creeps led by Genbu/Aeons against the noob brigade led by Valistar/Ooty/Kalib. 18 of the best pvpers on the server vs 48 of some of the worst.

One other point and I'll go play..

It again amazes me you have such insight on something you weren't around to see but I'll confirm it was 18 of the best pvpers on the server vs some of the worst for sure but again that doesn't change the fact that is was the worst time for Freeps in the history of Gladden PVP. Weather we suc'd or not is irrelevant. You know, not all of us can be Vics..

Then again, your no Genbu or Aeons either, they actually died many many times before the Blender came along and they would stand their ground even before those times.