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Thread: Toxic Carapace

  1. #1

    Toxic Carapace

    Weaver

    Toxic Carapace

    The Weaver secretes her venom over her carapace causing damage to all attackers.

    Buff that increases the Weaver’s mitigations and reflects 30% of all incoming damage back at the attacker.
    For each pip consumed on cast the duration and mitigation bonuses are increased.

    This skill says nothing about an increase in reflect, yet it is reflecting 100%... Is this a typo in the skill or is this skill not working as intended? Also what are the min/max durations?

    *Not trying to troll, just trying to get specifics on the skill*

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senzi View Post
    Weaver

    Toxic Carapace

    The Weaver secretes her venom over her carapace causing damage to all attackers.

    Buff that increases the Weaver’s mitigations and reflects 30% of all incoming damage back at the attacker.
    For each pip consumed on cast the duration and mitigation bonuses are increased.

    This skill says nothing about an increase in reflect, yet it is reflecting 100%... Is this a typo in the skill or is this skill not working as intended? Also what are the min/max durations?

    *Not trying to troll, just trying to get specifics on the skill*
    You are probably looking at old patch notes. The live version has no mitigation bonus, but reflects 100% of the damage dealt to the spider back at the attacker. This effect stacks up to 15 seconds, and during this time the weaver still takes the damage dealt.

  3. #3
    Thankyou very much for the info, one last thing? What is the cooldown on the skill?
    Last edited by Senzi; Nov 11 2012 at 01:56 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senzi View Post
    Thankyou very much for the info, one last thing? What is the cooldown on the skill?
    2 Minutes.

  5. #5
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    See, this is a constructive thread, the other one was just a "look at me, I sucked at a balanced class b4, so now I'm gonna gloat about how much I easymode on an OP class" thread .
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  6. #6
    This skill is nuts.

    Whether it was needed or not, is certainly a debatable topic; i'd say not needed but I really only played my spider for a month or two last book and didn't play near the zergs. So in 1v1 or small group fights, Spider was nearly where it needed to be in ROI and a well played one was pretty great. Now with the Rank Healing modifier, upgraded moral, upgraded pet AND TC... all i can say is wow.

    I easy moded it and bought the skill on the store at RoR launch, it an insane skill with a 2min CD. Almost a guaranteed SG each time you pop it to restore the damage you took through the reflect. Would be really tactically viable with someone healing you at the same time. Crazy.

    I'd probably adjust the reflect amount down a bit (maybe a lot, like 10-50% range for the skill ) and/or reduce the duration, and I would without a doubt throw up some type of Visible Bubble graphic. With all the OP, Keep, debuffs, buffs, pot buffs, etc all in a buff bar, spotting this thing is really somewhat tricky to do and react to before firing a skill or two off. I suppose it's really most dangerous when Hunters hit with focus buff up, or RKs at attunement or Champs with Seeking blades, or LMs hitting lightning, etc... that will really suffer immediately.

    Killed myself with 2 skills on the RK last night a few times after already being damaged a bit in the course of the fight. Zap Scribes 2.3k, Zap essence 3.5k..dead.....What the heck? Oh great reflect.... Without a doubt a great tactic vs an RK since you can judge attunement and when the big skills are coming, but what are you supposed to do as a freep at this stage when this gets popped at full strength?
    CC? - Laughable.
    Kite? - More Laughable.
    Stand there? - I guess so.

    RK healing still ridiculously OP btw. Once Full audactity is restored and a friendly LM is keepign SOPR up....DUMB OPness
    Last edited by Moofer; Nov 12 2012 at 03:42 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moofer View Post
    This skill is nuts.

    Whether it was needed or not, is certainly a debatable topic; i'd say not needed but I really only played my spider for a month or two last book and didn't play near the zergs. So in 1v1 or small group fights, Spider was nearly where it needed to be in ROI and a well played one was pretty great. Now with the Rank Healing modifier, upgraded moral, upgraded pet AND TC... all i can say is wow.

    I easy moded it and bought the skill on the store at RoR launch, it an insane skill with a 2min CD. Almost a guaranteed SG each time you pop it to restore the damage you took through the reflect. Would be really tactically viable with someone healing you at the same time. Crazy.

    I'd probably adjust the reflect amount down a bit (maybe a lot, like 10-50% range for the skill ) and/or reduce the duration, and I would without a doubt throw up some type of Visible Bubble graphic. With all the OP, Keep, debuffs, buffs, pot buffs, etc all in a buff bar, spotting this thing is really somewhat tricky to do and react to before firing a skill or two off. I suppose it's really most dangerous when Hunters hit with focus buff up, or RKs at attunement or Champs with Seeking blades, or LMs hitting lightning, etc... that will really suffer immediately.

    Killed myself with 2 skills on the RK last night a few times after already being damaged a bit in the course of the fight. Zap Scribes 2.3k, Zap essence 3.5k..dead.....What the heck? Oh great reflect.... Without a doubt a great tactic vs an RK since you can judge attunement and when the big skills are coming, but what are you supposed to do as a freep at this stage when this gets popped at full strength?
    CC? - Laughable.
    Kite? - More Laughable.
    Stand there? - I guess so.

    RK healing still ridiculously OP btw. Once Full audactity is restored and a friendly LM is keepign SOPR up....DUMB OPness
    Toxic does already have an obvious particle effect on the spider, though admittedly it might not show up well if you disable some effects or play in low settings (it's a green cloud, quite clear on my settings).

    If you see this as an RK, all you have to do is turtle with heals. Plan for a slightly longer fight. If you just try to quick pan-fry the spider, you are going to kill yourself every time.

    The only classes that don't have a strong counter play are captains and hunters. Captains, we'll see if they reach the same level sturdiness once they're in full audacity. From what I've seen of them (small sample of spars), traited piercing attack is more of a game changer against them than toxic carapace (they simply don't expect hits that hard from us).

    Hunters are just in a terrible place from a 1v1 perspective this update, and honestly need some work on their mechanics.

    All of this aside, the game is not being balanced for 1v1 fighting. The game is being balanced for group fighting, and in group fights this is perhaps the most balanced we've seen things since late SOA. I would go further and say that the group vs group balance is actually better than late SOA, as there are strong counters to previous "i win" raid strats (like champ balling the stairs in a keep, etc).


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  8. #8
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    This very overpowered skill needs to be reset to the original 30% reflect

    100% is insane

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureWorgNakh View Post
    This very overpowered skill needs to be reset to the original 30% reflect

    100% is insane
    only if you hit the spider

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    only if you hit the spider
    solution being "oh it's fair and balanced just don't attack for 10-15s"
    so the counter is do nothing

    Anyways it needs to be made more visible, the particle effect is extremely difficult to notice on low settings
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  11. #11
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    The skill is a rough skill. That was the idea when implementing it. It was a skill that required the opposition to think. As opposed to just mindless droning. Building a strategy around your opponent. If you just eye glaze over and smash skills, odds are, you are going to get yourself killed.

    As an RK, spam skill, spam skill, spam skill, perfect imagery, spam skill, EC. dead.

    Well now if you do that, you have issues. You need to rework your strat against that weaver, Moof. pop that stun/daze on the spider and heal yourself up as stickeez said. There are a few ways to notice the TC going off.

    1, the spider starts wailing like a banshee when it gets hit

    2, Big poofy green cloud.

    3, Bright green buff under the spider's health bar.


    If one can't be seen, there are two others.

    Every class has a way to counter the skill. You just have to use it. Is it tough..oh yeah it is. But it is completely workable.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    solution being "oh it's fair and balanced just don't attack for 10-15s"
    so the counter is do nothing

    Anyways it needs to be made more visible, the particle effect is extremely difficult to notice on low settings
    That was my tongue in cheek comment of the day

    I wouldn't be opposed to changing the particle effect to make it more noticeable.
    But like I said above. There is an audible notification, a visual notification, and a buff notification.

    What do you think would make a better visual notification?

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  13. #13
    The notifications are just fine. Chances are the people who think it needs to be changed are the same ones who aren't really paying attention to what the spider is doing anyways. In fact, it is one of the more obvious important skills out there to look out for on either side. Radioactive spider with bright green icon lol. I suppose a flash across your screen from PVMP+ telling you not to hit would be better....

  14. #14
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    Thumbs down OP

    Regardless if the effect is invisible or a glowing neon green pool of toxic venom, the issue is the 100% reflect is overkill given the Weaver's arsenal of countless other fatally potent offensive and defensive mechanisms.

    100% Reflect should only be available to a squishy class and as an ultimate last resort, similar to Dying Rage.

    Spiders are far from squishy and there is no penalty whatsoever for popping Toxic Carapace.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureWorgNakh View Post
    Regardless if the effect is invisible or a glowing neon green pool of toxic venom, the issue is the 100% reflect is overkill given the Weaver's arsenal of countless other fatally potent offensive and defensive mechanisms.

    100% Reflect should only be available to a squishy class and as an ultimate last resort, similar to Dying Rage.

    Spiders are far from squishy and there is no penalty whatsoever for popping Toxic Carapace.
    1. 100% reflect is not overkill, as mentioned before there are plenty of ways to work around it (unlike skills such as Last Stand). It just requires you to think. I know you're terrible at that, but you'll just have to learn.
    2. The penalty is that the Weaver's damage and self-healing goes down significantly due to losing all Venom pips. Again, it's good to learn things, preferably before you open your mouth and say something stupid again.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    That was my tongue in cheek comment of the day

    I wouldn't be opposed to changing the particle effect to make it more noticeable.
    But like I said above. There is an audible notification, a visual notification, and a buff notification.

    What do you think would make a better visual notification?
    The audible is hard to notice through all the obnoxious screeching and the buff is hard to pick out through the 3 bars of unnecessary buff icons. The buff icons need to be cleaned up, there's no reason that all the new OP/keep/delving buffs can't all be coupled under a zone wide effect instead of every individual buff taking up a spot under your bar.

    Perhaps instead of a change to the skill notification those changes could be made instead to make to easier to notice buffs
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    solution being "oh it's fair and balanced just don't attack for 10-15s"
    so the counter is do nothing
    *cough* last stand *cough*
    *cough* mini flop *cough*

    whew, allergies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    Anyways it needs to be made more visible, the particle effect is extremely difficult to notice on low settings
    You mean like Shieldwall and Shield of the Dunedain?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exion_Blade View Post
    *cough* last stand *cough*
    *cough* mini flop *cough*

    whew, allergies.
    protip: these skills are nothing compared to the spider reflect, and iirc captains in LS and minis in flop pretty much can't do anything really, flop is more comparable to burrow
    You mean like Shieldwall and Shield of the Dunedain?
    The dunedain bubble is the brightest most obvious thing in the game, and shieldwall has 2 icons and ...usually a guardian
    "death is nothing to us, for when we are.. death has not come. And when death has finally come, we are not"
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    protip: these skills are nothing compared to the spider reflect, and iirc captains in LS and minis in flop pretty much can't do anything really, flop is more comparable to burrow


    The dunedain bubble is the brightest most obvious thing in the game, and shieldwall has 2 icons and ...usually a guardian
    Errr really? How is it again that a captain in last stand can't do anything? o.O

    The bubble is definitely NOT obvious at low graphics settings, but those of us that learn to look at the other players' bar find it pretty easily. If I can find Shield Wall on a target during a raid, you should be able to find TC on a spider. But I'll agree that the OP buffs need to be gone. Waste of space. It really doesn't change the fact that the icon for TC is bright freaking neon green and sticks out like a sore thumb. It's just like looking for Touch and Go on a burg...which isn't hard to do. Can I complain about T&G being overpowered and needing a bigger animation now?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PureWorgNakh View Post
    Regardless if the effect is invisible or a glowing neon green pool of toxic venom, the issue is the 100% reflect is overkill given the Weaver's arsenal of countless other fatally potent offensive and defensive mechanisms.

    100% Reflect should only be available to a squishy class and as an ultimate last resort, similar to Dying Rage.

    Spiders are far from squishy and there is no penalty whatsoever for popping Toxic Carapace.
    Go 1vs1 a dps rk as a spider and let me know how not squishy you are

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo07 View Post
    Errr really? How is it again that a captain in last stand can't do anything? o.O

    The bubble is definitely NOT obvious at low graphics settings, but those of us that learn to look at the other players' bar find it pretty easily. If I can find Shield Wall on a target during a raid, you should be able to find TC on a spider. But I'll agree that the OP buffs need to be gone. Waste of space. It really doesn't change the fact that the icon for TC is bright freaking neon green and sticks out like a sore thumb. It's just like looking for Touch and Go on a burg...which isn't hard to do. Can I complain about T&G being overpowered and needing a bigger animation now?
    He probably means that a Cappy in Last Stand has no Morale(Unless they popped it early or are being healed) and some Cappy Healing skills cost morale and are unusable.
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  22. #22
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    I have to say, reviving this 6 month old thread is pureblood's best bit of trolling I can remember.


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  23. #23
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PureWorgNakh View Post
    Godmode? No it's not yet. I petition that this skill now negates 100% damage while it reflects 100%. Then you will see godmode.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Exion_Blade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    solution being "oh it's fair and balanced just don't attack for 10-15s"
    so the counter is do nothing
    *cough* last stand *cough* *cough* mini flop *cough*
    protip: these skills are nothing compared to the spider reflect, and iirc captains in LS and minis in flop pretty much can't do anything really, flop is more comparable to burrow
    I wasn't comparing them directly in effects. You cannot, they do radically different things. I was however commenting that you are saying you cannot attack for the duration. You can. My comparison was simply for your comment (complaint) that it's unbalance because you cannot attack something for 10 - 15 seconds. There are plenty of freepside examples of this occurring. Shall we get rid of them ALL? I didn't think so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    The dunedain bubble is the brightest most obvious thing in the game, and shieldwall has 2 icons and ...usually a guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    The audible is hard to notice through all the obnoxious screeching and the buff is hard to pick out through the 3 bars of unnecessary buff icons. The buff icons need to be cleaned up, there's no reason that all the new OP/keep/delving buffs can't all be coupled under a zone wide effect instead of every individual buff taking up a spot under your bar.

    Perhaps instead of a change to the skill notification those changes could be made instead to make to easier to notice buffs
    "Toxic Carapace is the brightest most obvious thing in the game, and Toxic Carapace an icon and ...usually a weaver." ~Legit

    Granted I'll give you the shieldwall thing, it's honestly easier to catch with its animation in the beginning (barring the fact that unless you're looking at the buffs and are able to see the shieldwall icon and are competent enough to notice Absorbed every single hit, you will NEVER know someone is being shieldwalled if you didn't catch the initial animation). But shield of the dunedain is much more difficult to see. Any fool with half a braincell can see Field promotion (usually because the animation says on for the FULL DURATION), It's a Black Bubble that's near impossible to miss. Shield of the dunedain is not so easy. And cant forget the fact that on some servers, captains are more sparse. Meaning we are not used to the animation and its FAR from obvious also given its duration. Oh and also barring that freeps have up to FIVE rows of "unnecessary buffs". Toxic Carapace is FAR easier to catch. IF you are competent and paying attention.
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