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Thread: final straw

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Really? If you count solo as a horde of players walking after the highest rank and obeying their every ooc whim, while alt-tabbing to whatever target they post in ooc/pressing 1, 2, 3 on the closest or most threatening target, then yes. There was a lot of lazy solo gods who played sloppy and succeeded because of imbalance.
    Yes, these are exactly the type of Solo Gods that I was refering to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    If not, then there was never really any solo players during RoI, and you would be a fool to classify what little players who did engage in the playstyle under that disgusting banner.
    You are correct, true solo players are not what I was refering to as "Solo Gods" however many of our true soloers did so on God like classes.

    1v1 there wasn't much a Creep could do against a half way decently played mini, warden, burg or champ. Some of these players I could never best, even if things were perfectly even. There is however plenty of Freeps about who must believe that, over night, they became better players.

    Many soloers also only discovered their love of soloing after Turbine handed them an OP class.

    Finally, considering that OP plays a rank 12 mini (that gained ~97% of their renown during ROI) who claims to have been PvPing for 5.5 years. I'm inclined to pause and wonder; what class were they playing for 4.5 years prior to their ROI mini?

    So I checked... Rank 12 hunter... More and more it makes sense.
    Last edited by ksjock; Oct 28 2012 at 11:10 PM.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitefox1313 View Post
    Last time the LOTRO PvP was close to balance was in Book 12-14 of SoA, and thats 4 years old. Everything that came after was an absurd one-side show in favour of the freeps, with the exception of the unlimited BAs firedots episode.

    Currently, all things being equals, i would say Creeps have a slight advantage on the field. But this wont last for long, thats a given.
    How I miss book 12-14. That was good pvp. Prebk12 wasn't particulary balanced for creeps, but it was still fun for both sides indeed.

    Don't forget the pounce conj era. To say it was considerably freep-favored after book 12-14 THE WHOLE TIME tho is a bit drastic, dont ya think? I mean, cmon, u play a defiler , they have never been underpowered and they always been in the slightly op-op range ever since book 13. They definitely need a dps stance tho, just make sure they dont make the same mistake with minnies and allow them to heal for 3k lol (which they need to nerf on minnies btw).

    I have a rank 9 reaver btw.

    The other expacs freeps were only slightly stronger than creeps, not drastically, except I would say book 6 moria where freeps dominated, as well as some classes in SoM heal proc era for heavies and RoI audacity era for some classes like minnie and champs. In the time span from moria to RoI, both sides had fluctuating opness, but it wasn't too extreme like it is now. For example, in book 7 moria reavers were op as well as Rks.

    I'm an optimist that says freeps will get stronger with gear, but overall, I still think pvp as a whole will be unbalanced for both sides.
    Last edited by Grimphore; Oct 29 2012 at 12:00 AM.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    I will take all of your very experienced and objective opinions into account then.
    What a very odd and useless comment, but go ahead anyway. You are very welcome to.
    Last edited by Aztec_Soul; Oct 29 2012 at 12:50 AM.
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  4. #54
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    Got to love all the comments here. Most are from hardcore players of only one side or the other with just a few who play both sides regulary. If you play only one side then you will have an extremely biased point of view.

    Were changes need to the creep side? yes Turbine/WB just didnt look forward to how launch would be. They listened well in beta (much better then previous betas) but most beta players are close to the top percent for both sides. Not the average Joes which make up the majority of players on both sides.

    As to the lets wait for gear thought.... What actual gear could they possibly get? After the crafted jewlery and the upgraded pvmp armor sets? Lets take a look at the upgraded sets. The stat increase is not a medium let alone a large increase. And a new instance cluster/raid armor when it does show up is not going to have audacity on it.

    Most hardcore freeps have all the crafted jewlery and a few peices of the upgraded pvmp armor. There is not much of an upgrade after that. So the wait for instance/raid gear thought is false.

    I have yet to see a post on how defilers are currently recieving the buff intended for reavers(only) where they start out with a plus to mitigations.

    Keep in mind fellas most creeps are the more dedicated pvmpers thats why they play creep side, they needed a boost. But imo the mechanics put in to make them viable in the past are the true culprits now, the large morale pool and mitigations. Which were very needed at the time but now that they have been boosted not so much anymore.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars0621 View Post
    Got to love all the comments here. Most are from hardcore players of only one side or the other with just a few who play both sides regulary. If you play only one side then you will have an extremely biased point of view.

    Were changes need to the creep side? yes Turbine/WB just didnt look forward to how launch would be. They listened well in beta (much better then previous betas) but most beta players are close to the top percent for both sides. Not the average Joes which make up the majority of players on both sides.

    As to the lets wait for gear thought.... What actual gear could they possibly get? After the crafted jewlery and the upgraded pvmp armor sets? Lets take a look at the upgraded sets. The stat increase is not a medium let alone a large increase. And a new instance cluster/raid armor when it does show up is not going to have audacity on it.

    Most hardcore freeps have all the crafted jewlery and a few peices of the upgraded pvmp armor. There is not much of an upgrade after that. So the wait for instance/raid gear thought is false.

    I have yet to see a post on how defilers are currently recieving the buff intended for reavers(only) where they start out with a plus to mitigations.

    Keep in mind fellas most creeps are the more dedicated pvmpers thats why they play creep side, they needed a boost. But imo the mechanics put in to make them viable in the past are the true culprits now, the large morale pool and mitigations. Which were very needed at the time but now that they have been boosted not so much anymore.
    Well stated. Let's hear a call out from the posters in this thread. I'm saying the creep changes are ridiculous and my mains are a rank 10 warg, a rank 10 LM, a rank 9 burg and a rank 8 reaver. Plenty of lower ranked creeps but those are the mains. I'll bet dollars to donuts the vast majority of creeps saying "boohoo" right now not only have less creep experience than me but also have only seen it from one side. (BTW: for what it's worth, I play solo only so those ranks are the best I have after 5 and half years).

    One of my best friends is the highest ranked creep on our server. He's only ever played creepside and we have conversations all the time about balance and I can tell you: there's just no talking to him. BECAUSE HE'S ONLY SEEN ONE SIDE. The moors are in peril right now with these changes and there are some players that would be happy to see it go down the tubes before admitting they possibly were never as gimped as they wanted everyone to believe. Their victories were always because of skill and their defeats were always because the other side was OP. Likewise, when they turtle or log it was because there was no chance of victory but now freeps are unskilled and not used to playing to their potential. It's just sad all around.

    BTW, I have one qualifier: I play on a small population server (Nimrodel). Numbers have always been the great equalizer in the moors and for all I know things have gone on as usual on the big servers. I can only comment on my own experience.
    Last edited by 22Acacia; Oct 29 2012 at 01:11 AM.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    Well stated. Let's hear a call out from the posters in this thread. I'm saying the creep changes are ridiculous and my mains are a rank 10 warg, a rank 10 LM, a rank 9 burg and a rank 8 reaver. Plenty of lower ranked creeps but those are the mains. I'll bet dollars to donuts the vast majority of creeps saying "boohoo" right now not only have less creep experience than me but also have only seen it from one side. (BTW: for what it's worth, I play solo only so those ranks are the best I have after 5 and half years).

    One of my best friends is the highest ranked creep on our server. He's only ever played creepside and we have conversations all the time about balance and I can tell you: there's just no talking to him. BECAUSE HE'S ONLY SEEN ONE SIDE. The moors are in peril right now with these changes and there are some players that would be happy to see it go down the tubes before admitting they possibly were never as gimped as they wanted everyone to believe. Their victories were always because of skill and their defeats were always because the other side was OP. Likewise, when they turtle or log it was because there was no chance of victory but now freeps are unskilled and not used to playing to their potential. It's just sad all around.

    BTW, I have one qualifier: I play on a small population server (Nimrodel). Numbers have always been the great equalizer in the moors and for all I know things have gone on as usual on the big servers. I can only comment on my own experience.
    1 v 1 right now is unbalanced, creeps are simply in a much better place than freeps and I would guess that something like 80% of all possible 1 v 1 fights would be won by the creep (at least if the creep is rank 6 or higher).

    What I have seen is that in raid fights, 12 freeps are still better than 12 creeps due to superior CC, superior healing and superior focus fire. Freeps can put out more healing, more CC and more burst DPS than creeps can and if numbers are even the freeps should still expect a win. I expect that once freeps get new end game jewels and LIs it will balance more than it is currently with most people running crafted gear and a few getting into skraid bling and 2a LIs.

    One thing that does unbalance things now are OP buffs, the side with superior numbers which is almost always creep side gets a huge buff from controlling the map which really makes fights lopsided. A 6v6 with 3 blue OPs is pretty much a face-rolling while 6-8 creeps with 4 red OPs can roll 6 freeps hiding in EC despite the NPCs.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    Well stated. Let's hear a call out from the posters in this thread. I'm saying the creep changes are ridiculous and my mains are a rank 10 warg, a rank 10 LM, a rank 9 burg and a rank 8 reaver. Plenty of lower ranked creeps but those are the mains. I'll bet dollars to donuts the vast majority of creeps saying "boohoo" right now not only have less creep experience than me but also have only seen it from one side. (BTW: for what it's worth, I play solo only so those ranks are the best I have after 5 and half years).
    Longevity isnt important, really if you've partaken in a &&&&&& product for 5 and a half years thats more an indication of the type of expirence rather then some sage position. Really, there is nothing special about having played LOTRO for a long time, nothing at all.

    I havent played as long as you, ive played both sides. Freeps are: RK, hunter and guard, burg briefly. However you are mostly correct in your assertion that this expansion is ridiculous for the moors, because the moors are ridiculous. They have been for a long time, wouldnt you concur based on your 5+ years? Creeps got the buff and the OP this time around and a lot of us are drinking up the tears of freeps. Again, didnt hear a lot of cries from freeps when the shoe was on the other foot.

    but on a serious note, no one i talked to had really big expectation for the moors this expansion. For a lot of us it was to little to late anyway. That said the buffs are powerful and the whole map is likely red and freeps are struggling, well WAI.... Thats what the devs wanted, thats what we have. Yeah its &&&&, it will be &&&& with the next expansion as well. Balancing toons created for two different purposes hasnt gone well for them, spiders for instance are OP now, IMHO.

    Maybe it will be warlords next expansion ? Wargs were flavor of the month last time, who knows maybe cappies will get something OP? You see a trend here? I sure do, this time its the otherside, the problem isnt freep or creep the problem is expectations of a balanced PvP expirence with the lotro product. Not happen, great PvE game, pvp not so much.


  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    The mini should have dropped in seconds, they didnt and still dont.
    If that's the case, especially this update, they have every reason to laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Integrity and civil rights? Its a video game Untug, please...
    Maybe you miss the point of the analogy altogether.

    If I wanted to relate this politically, then I would say that the majority of lotro PvMP'rs are right wing radicals who seek inequality out in favour for themselves. Unless of course they are the underdog, then they become left wing radicals with blatant right wing intentions.

    Please tell me you don't belong to such a crowd, and the posts I've read by you have just been hallucinations, and I'll gladly pack up and leave.

    As far as your connotation, just for the record, I, and the others you interact with are real people, not simply part of a video game.

  9. #59
    my prior post is based on the fact that i have played freep(quite a bit). ive lead freeps, ive lead creeps.

    freeps- freeps are like cats. they lay around, kick back, if something makes it mad they scratch its eyes out and jump over a wall. they fell that everything is rightfully theirs, they aren't here for anyone but themselves. sure they like to be pet, they like to lay on your bed. but as soon as the stuff hits the fan, they bail. if a freep raid is rolling, they freeps stay, if it wipes a few of them drop cause it was someone other than themselves fault they lost...
    p.s. your not all this way

    creeps- creeps are like beaten mutts, all they know is pain. they have been smashed their entire lives. one broken house to the next. they are afraid of anything that moves too suddenly or makes loud noises. they finally get into a good home and get some decent food in them and they start to become normal again. but they remember where they came from... creeps are so willing to group up, they want to group up for no reason sometimes just to hang out with their fav people ingame. they listen well, and take orders like good little maggots, and unless they have made several horrid mistakes leading to a wipe they dont discourage easily, and are always willing to give it one more push.
    p.s. your not all this way

    my advice to you? get in a group, learn to focus, learn to move.
    Garamburn
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  10. #60
    I like the basic balance changes. My freeps can now die in a 'fair' fight which is refreshing and means I'll probably start playing them a bit more again (OP is lame). Creeps are certainly stronger and more competitive, any threads professing that creeps are now OP are just silly as freeps haven't had any time to properly gear up yet while creeps are already closing on their maximum effectiveness for the next 12 months.
    Taking spiders as an example, good spids could beat bad and average freeps (or certain freep classes) before the patch so it's not like they've come from nowhere. Even taken now as a strong moors class they still aren't a patch on pre-RoR minis, wardens, rks and champs. Time will tell if they are more balanced against those classes now.

    The changes I don't like are the OP buffs, just plain silly in my opinion and pigeon-holing all of us into groupy, zergy mindsets (where before I was virtually pure solo now this style of play is punished). I enjoyed GW2 structured pvp, but I couldn't stand the hugely disappointing WvWvW due to the pure Zerg. I hope lotro doesn't go down the same path.
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  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    Well stated. Let's hear a call out from the posters in this thread. I'm saying the creep changes are ridiculous and my mains are a rank 10 warg, a rank 10 LM, a rank 9 burg and a rank 8 reaver. Plenty of lower ranked creeps but those are the mains. I'll bet dollars to donuts the vast majority of creeps saying "boohoo" right now not only have less creep experience than me but also have only seen it from one side. (BTW: for what it's worth, I play solo only so those ranks are the best I have after 5 and half years).
    First of all, In this Freep QQ thread, there aren't a lot of Creeps saying "boohoo". Unless you consider Creeps pointing out to minstrel that they aren't gimped QQ?

    Second, Freeps had such a one sided advantage in ROI esp with group play that Turbine, for the first time I can recall, actually came out and said so. So I don't think that the OPness of Freeps in ROI can logically be disputed and passed off as Creep QQ.

    Now: I have a few Freeps, I have a rank 6 Champ played only in SOA where renown gain was tiny (in today's Moors he'd be rank ~9?) an RK and Tard that I only leveled enough to get the fast Grams map. I also have ~ 1.5 million inf across all my Creeps. I've PvPed solid for the last 4 years. I played as Turbine improved things leading up to and through out MOM and I still played as things slowly returned to OP Freep BS culminating with the debacle that was ROI.

    Which leads me to Third point, I don't need to have played a Freep recently to know how OP some Freep classes are because I played against them when they weren't OP. That and I can read the posts made by quite a few Freeps asking for turbine to "please fix my class" because it's just way too OP for PvP (kinda like the post directly above mine). I could also reference quite a few chats I've had with Freep flippers on my server who ditched their mains to play Creeps side because Freeping simply wasn't a challenge.

    Now I satisfied your request, will you answer a few questions of mine?

    What Creep changes in particular are ridiculous?

    What is your opinion about minis, wardens and champs both in ROI and now?

    Your LM is your highest ranked Freep. What's your opinion on the ROR LM, with the changes to DR and the addition of water lore (1 second induction, stacks 3 times, provides 15% incoming healing and means you will probably be able to self heal ~150 to 200 HPS)?
    Last edited by ksjock; Oct 29 2012 at 06:50 AM.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legonist View Post
    i decided to play some creep side to see how much it had changed since i had played it in Pre ROI, Post ROI and now ROR. I am finding that at a low rank most creep classes can do a lot of damage to freeps (considering the amount of moral and mits they have). I do admit that wardens and minstrels are hard to kill but now all creeps have mits that dont match up with how much damage they do and moral they have. Also ive seem a few defilers out heal some solo hunters dps (at level 85 with maxed out bow and such while in SS with burn hot).

    The main issue is that when ever i go in the moors the freep always have outnumber buff and its almost impossible to leave GV.
    Right, main healer on creep side isnt allowed to outheal main dps class on freep side? *Looks around confutsed*.
    Whats the use for healers if they cant heal through damage from a single freep, whereas mincer could outheal +2 creeps in warspeech and dps traits?
    Dont know about you, but i find this quite odd.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legonist View Post

    The main issue is that when ever i go in the moors the freep always have outnumber buff and its almost impossible to leave GV.
    One thing I dont get is..how are freeps meant to get the lvl 85 audacity set? If you enter the moors with just quest gear you wont stand a chance and getting any commendations at all will be a blessing.

    oh and defiler healing is OP some might say, but its no worse than RKs/Minstrels and dont worry, defilers dont deal 20% of the dps as RKs/minis does
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    I'll bet dollars to donuts the vast majority of creeps saying "boohoo" right now not only have less creep experience than me but also have .
    Out of curiosity, how does a QQ thread created by a freep eqaul Creep QQ?

    Just because it takes more thought than before to kill creeps doesn't make them OP. Just because you can't push a few buttons and kill creeps doesnt make them OP. Just because Creeps can actually kill you without needing 4 others' help doesn't make them OP. Moors is supposed to be a challenge to Freeps, not a cakewalk.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    One thing I dont get is..how are freeps meant to get the lvl 85 audacity set? If you enter the moors with just quest gear you wont stand a chance and getting any commendations at all will be a blessing.
    Freeps came out not long after the expansion on BW and were getting some solid points.

    Decent freeps can still tear you a new one.

    And if they aint, they probably on their creeps sitting right next to you @ GV.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    oh and defiler healing is OP some might say, but its no worse than RKs/Minstrels and dont worry, defilers dont deal 20% of the dps as RKs/minis does
    I was unaware that healing minstrels and RK's could deal significant damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Selebrimbor View Post
    Out of curiosity, how does a QQ thread created by a freep eqaul Creep QQ?

    Just because it takes more thought than before to kill creeps doesn't make them OP. Just because you can't push a few buttons and kill creeps doesnt make them OP. Just because Creeps can actually kill you without needing 4 others' help doesn't make them OP. Moors is supposed to be a challenge to Freeps, not a cakewalk.
    This is certainly true for mos creeps. If you are a melee versus a weaver though, you might need a GM to toss you some help from above.

    As for the other creep classes which received some significant changes, this is where the outposts become absolutely stupid.

    Reavers in particular have very high (among the highest) mitigations creepside(Morale pool considered too). For a melee DPS class, they have the highest potential damage output as well. Without outpost buffs considered, I've found the ratio that the reaver currently has in terms of it's damage/survivability to be very adequate.

    Problems start to originate (I.E. They become overpowered) when that ratio becomes significantly changed. It becomes that their initial damage ratio to survivability is far too high, resulting in the player being able to dish out too much compared to what he should be taking in.
    This isn't just a problem with overpowering creeps either, my friend Rainithir I brought up in that other thread? Still one, two and three-shotting creeps with outdated gear (Very important for a hunter of his style to be on top of having the latest gear) just because of outposts. Although, I admit that the survival/damage ratio is somewhat more acceptable on a hunter than a reaver, weaver or a lot of other classes (freepside included).

    I liked the Outpost buffs, and I definitely like how it's moving action around to different parts of the map now. Big plus. However, the buffs that originate from controlling the outpost is far too potent for combat usage. Potentially, one side zerging the entire map in their colour will negate the ON buff and any session plays the other side would throw at them, as well as more than double their rewards for doing so.

    Outposts in current implementation are a lazy way of shifting balance that should be predetermined, into the hands of the majority of the players online at any one specified time. The very fact that this is the way it currently works, should speak for itself regarding all the problems it has over the limited advantages for moors play.

    I'm all for outposts, and what they do as far as map distribution right now, but the buffs for owning them are just too ridiculous to bring a proper overall benefit.
    Last edited by Untg99; Oct 29 2012 at 11:25 AM.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    you might need a GM to toss you some help from above.
    Hahaha

    Outposts in current implementation are a lazy way of shifting balance that should be predetermined, into the hands of the majority of the players online at any one specified time. The very fact that this is the way it currently works, should speak for itself regarding all the problems it has over the limited advantages for moors play.

    I'm all for outposts, and what they do as far as map distribution right now, but the buffs for owning them are just too ridiculous to bring a proper overall benefit.
    Now this I agree with. One of the only things I didn't like about the RoR OP buffs...they seemed a bit over-the-top.

    Have any Freeps got a chance to have the all OP buffs yet? Just curious how they work out for you guys. My server's map has been red for some time now, so I haven't gotten a chance to find out yet?
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    If you are a melee versus a weaver though, you might need a GM to toss you some help from above.
    I find it pretty hard to imagine GMs even taking shots at us; we are out of control atm.
    The only class that still has a chance are minstrels because they can heal and DPS without penalty.
    Even then it will be an even fight without NPCs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by playlotro145 View Post
    Quite apart from the personal opinions and anecdotes articulated above the server data collected by Surugi appears to suggest a distinct and growing creep advantage ever since the RoR release. Infamy vs. commendation ratios of 3 or 4 to 1 across all servers would be expected the first few days after a release, but it is troubling to see those ratios continue nearly two week out. If balance is the intended goal then this metric is most worrisome. I hope to see less imbalance over the next two weeks even though the data is trending in the opposite direction.
    I think you may have over-estimated how quickly people are leveling en-mass and getting out into the Moors. I think your "Wait a couple more weeks" view is a good one to have. The imbalance in Infamy/Renown gain is almost entirely based on the numbers of people out there. The Freeps in general haven't gotten all geared up and the fights currently favor the Creeps. At least in numbers, if not in raw firepower.

    I'm actually not surprised to see the Infamy gain eclipse Renown gain two weeks out. And I think it's much too early to decide whether the "Balance" has been set where intended. From what I've observed and gotten from talking to people on both sides, it's actually closer to balanced than it was previously.
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  20. #70
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    Seriously guys...stop qq(both sides) about everything

    Give it a month or two till both sides are ready and then you will have feedback.
    just considering things being op without real tests its just...wrong

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    I just had several 1v1's last night. I only used up to R8 skills, and all other variables seemed to add up to a somewhat balanced setting.

    One RK: I won quickly.

    Second RK: First couple fights were won, though not as quickly. The third was very close, and could have gone either way.

    Guardian (OP): First fight I lost badly, rather quickly. Second fight I won convincingly, though it took a few minutes.

    Gear and player skill were at work here. The difference between the two RKs were noticable. Against the Guardian, it took a lot of kiting to win. I won't disclose the specifics on how I pulled it off, but I was able to strafe in circles all while facing my opponent at all times, firing off ranged skills in tandem.

    None of them had full audacity gear, and I believe still used lvl75 LIs and wore lvl75 jewellery.

    My point? Don't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that Creeps need to be nerfed, just because Freeps are having it hard this early since RoR. Be patient and get your gear up to level. Future instances will come around, as they have in the past, most likely offering a much more powerful variance to lvl85 crafted gear, perhaps with set bonuses like the Limlight gear has.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c2140100000b9311/signature.png]Mavirthael[/charsig]

    6 Chestnut Street, Branway, Breeland, Crickhollow

  22. #72
    New expac - check
    Moors update - check
    Parity seemingly addressed - check
    Freeps undergeared still thinking they can faceroll as before - check
    Countless freep QQ threads - check

    Seriously, how much of the freep population is fully geared, traited, etc.? You can't faceroll now but once more of you are geared/traited/LI'ed out, you'll find that you do much better than you think. The moors have changed, just get everyone geared up and organized. Most importantly outposts play a key role in damage now, learn the lay of the land first. I do think that once the freeps are geared up, they stop whining and play the moors as they should be played it will be very different than these QQ threads claim.
    Last edited by Viloxus; Oct 29 2012 at 05:18 PM.
    [B][COLOR=cyan][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000039d09/signature.png]Viloxus[/charsig]
    8-time Grand Champion Guinness Drinker[/COLOR][/B]
    [SIZE=2][B][COLOR=silver]June 2008 model in "Failmasters of 2008" Calendar[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE][SIZE=2]
    [B][COLOR=green]Making the world a better place one less pair of pants at a time :p [/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    408
    Quote Originally Posted by Traur View Post
    1 v 1 right now is unbalanced
    1v1s will be unbalanced until they take away those fluctuating buffs from OPs and the relics. They are pretty much dead right now and dont prove much, unless everyone makes a mutual agreement not to take OPs and relics, which I don't see happening as a majority of moors players are zerglings. Heck, do you even get comms from OP now? What's the point besides a lil bit of infamy? Are ppl really that desperate for rank with it being easy as heck to get now with the keep buffs lol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aztec_Soul View Post
    Guardian (OP): First fight I lost badly, rather quickly. Second fight I won convincingly, though it took a few minutes.

    Gear and player skill were at work here. The difference between the two RKs were noticable. Against the Guardian, it took a lot of kiting to win. I won't disclose the specifics on how I pulled it off, but I was able to strafe in circles all while facing my opponent at all times, firing off ranged skills in tandem.

    None of them had full audacity gear, and I believe still used lvl75 LIs and wore lvl75 jewellery.
    Curious how u kited the guard so well assuming, as most guards do these days, have the auto stagger set. That's y I stopped playing my guard; I thought it was dumb that ppl that prob couldn't land stagger b4 now can without any skill by simply pressing the button. That's when you could tell who was good at guard and who wasn't is with stagger application as that could turn the tide of the fight and validated who was a good guard and who was bad, but I digress lol.

    Yeah, I'm one of those optimists that say freeps just need gear, but the moors will still be unbalanced as a whole for each side, so doesnt matter imo.
    Last edited by Grimphore; Oct 29 2012 at 05:15 PM.
    Ewoc EMAY of the "Lonely Mountain" , Izergz Reaver
    OP RoI Hunter Build:
    http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/p...nShot00071.jpg

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    221
    Lots of impassioned responses in this thread. I can respect that and empathize with people who are finding this current state not much fun. As a creep. I don't respect my fellow creeps who use this as an excuse to say "well you got what you deserved after ROI". Freeps aren't developers. They played the game they were given, just as you are now. If ROR turns out to be as borked as ROI then we all should as PVP'ers call for a fix because there is no moral highground. Either it sucks for us all or it wins for us all.

    That said.

    There's alot of broken systems contributing to this, how appriopriate, perfect storm the ettenmoors have become.

    1) The first broken system is audacity. It's bad for creeps because of the cost. Its horrific for freeps. Not only are you compiling the gear to get the audacity, but also the updated 85 stats. So freeps are double nerfed, on one hand they have to kill to compile audacity, but on the other they have to kill to compile a level 85 set of gear stats. The grind and potential for losses and high amounts of deaths or being pinned in GV contribute to the next problem in two different ways.

    2) F2P. Because you can F2P on creep but not on freep, numbers are always in the creeps favor. Because many freeps are discouraged because of the audacity grind, these numbers skew even further to the creep direction. Creeps have been buffed up, but it doesn't account for the numbers they can bring to bear. With maps, march and the delving they can overwhelm even OP freeps as we all know happened often in ROI. Now that they're buffed and freeps are under geared? It's ten times worese and contributes to the next fail system.

    The mechanic to fight those numbers is session play. They changed session play so you can roll three rangers and fellow with them. Great addition. However, these sessions cost commendations! If the freeps are trying to eke out every point of comms they can to reach gear balance and max audacity, they can't spend them on rangers. Also, you can't gain commendations or renown on session play. Another big disincentive for fighting and needs to be corrected.

    3) Outposts. I like the mechanic, I like the stacking buff. Some people don't, I respect that. But its something different. But it doesn't take into account numbers. If outposts and their buffs can be flipped at will, its again creep advantage simply due to numbers. It will be initially anyway impossible for outnumbered freeps to take advantage of the OP buffs to fight the numbers of creeps.


    So the creeps have been buffed to be more even with the freeps. The freeps are currently in a nerf stat trying to compile gear and audacity, they are always outnumbered by an enemy that can basically appear on top of them at the drop of a hat, and that enemy has an extra 4x buff to their dps. And all of this inhibits directly the flow of points needed to compile the gear to correct the issue.

    Genius.

    That said.

    Freeps have yet to adapt to the changes. How many are complaining they can't get out of GV? There's the back route to GV and the delving. How many freeps are trying to smash faces horde to horde but fail? How many freeps are killing the delving bosses to increase their comm generation? Taking relics and keeps? How many freeps are coordinating separate groups to continually take OP's? If all freeps congregate, then all creeps congregate and there are way more of them.

    I'd recommend:

    Not raiding to fight the creeps. Split up, multiple groups of 6 to 12 will split the creeps to hunt you. Take OP's constantly, use the delving, kill the delving bosses to increase your comm generation to gear up faster. Like it or hate it, it's just not ROI anymore. You have to adapt.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by ksjock View Post
    First of all, In this Freep QQ thread, there aren't a lot of Creeps saying "boohoo". Unless you consider Creeps pointing out to minstrel that they aren't gimped QQ?
    I guess we're reading it differently.

    Second, Freeps had such a one sided advantage in ROI esp with group play that Turbine, for the first time I can recall, actually came out and said so. So I don't think that the OPness of Freeps in ROI can logically be disputed and passed off as Creep QQ.
    Funny, of my mains characters, my warg was by far my most potent class for the last few months.

    Now I satisfied your request, will you answer a few questions of mine?

    What Creep changes in particular are ridiculous?
    Health, mitigations and reaver/weaver DPS.

    What is your opinion about minis, wardens and champs both in ROI and now?
    Same as always, hard to kill. I haven't tested enough yet but they seem easier (note though that I haven't used my reaver yet, I'm basing it only on my warg but if I can come close to what I see other reavers doing out there, it will be a lolzfest).


    Your LM is your highest ranked Freep. What's your opinion on the ROR LM, with the changes to DR and the addition of water lore (1 second induction, stacks 3 times, provides 15% incoming healing and means you will probably be able to self heal ~150 to 200 HPS)?
    It's a 2 second induction. Absolutely useless in anything but a support role in the moors. But my LM is about where it's been for a long time now: Decent in groups or near group fights, below average in 1v1's. Any creep that cares to brand (most in my experience on our server) facerolls me otherwise I can put up a good fight. Definitely the weakest of all my classes.

 

 
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