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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaphael View Post
    It's the same npc where you barter for your class's LI.

    I know one in 21st hall just outside the vault, and there's one in Bree between the Prancing Pony and the West Gate. There may be more too.
    Do you mean bartering for an item, IDing it, and deconing it, or is there a way to directly barter KTs or RDTs for T1 relics?

    IDing and deconing lots of items is time consuming since I don't have much inventory space left and it gets expensive too.
    Mellichae - R12 Champion
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  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by eskla View Post
    Do you mean bartering for an item, IDing it, and deconing it, or is there a way to directly barter KTs or RDTs for T1 relics?

    IDing and deconing lots of items is time consuming since I don't have much inventory space left and it gets expensive too.
    21st Hall (5.7s, 105.0w), Dolven-view (8.1s, 112.2w), Bree (29.6s, 51.7w), Vineyards of Lorien (17.4s, 64.6w)

    They are named "Class" Legendary Item Trader.. You can trade 1 RDT for 1 T1 Relic, 1 KT for 2 T1 Relics, or 1 EoN for 1 T2 Relic.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Thanks for this thread, btw...inspired me to farm some shards.

    Armed with 8 Scrolls of Combination from some lottery or goody bag (maybe anniversary awards?) and ~1000 T1 relics (from 10 characters' worth of Tablets and Rusted Tools) I ended up with 200,000 shards and 5 Million in IXP runes. I combined them all up to T5 and refined. T5 made sense with the +25% crit scrolls.

    Took me 2 hours and 50G, but I can relax about making crafted relics for a while.
    That's a fantastic return. Do you mean 1000 sealed T1 boxes?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000019dccb/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    That's a fantastic return. Do you mean 1000 sealed T1 boxes?
    Yes, sealed relics. Not individual settings/gems/runes. Likely more than that, even, but I didn't count. Probably somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 sealed relics, and combined with whatever I had on me through normal gameplay, I started with somewhere between 10,000 and 13,000 T1 settings/gems/runes.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Yes, sealed relics. Not individual settings/gems/runes. Likely more than that, even, but I didn't count. Probably somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000 sealed relics, and combined with whatever I had on me through normal gameplay, I started with somewhere between 10,000 and 13,000 T1 settings/gems/runes.
    Impressive. But I have to ask, which new mouse prototype are you stress testing?
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  6. #56
    So once you "easily" got your shards/relics what was the actual cost for producing a specific t9 relic.

    Time and ingame cash mainly but also curious about how your fingers coped going through 10k+ relics.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loucifer View Post
    Impressive. But I have to ask, which new mouse prototype are you stress testing?
    Haha, just a regular 3-button mouse. The wife frequently laughed at the rhythmic clicking. Though I did not do all 2 hours' worth of 15-minute buffs consecutively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moneydie View Post
    So once you "easily" got your shards/relics what was the actual cost for producing a specific t9 relic.

    Time and ingame cash mainly but also curious about how your fingers coped going through 10k+ relics.
    I haven't gotten that far. Not bothering with new relics until I get 2nd Ages, and I'm mildly allergic to skirmishes. As far as getting the shards, I didn't do more than 2 15-minute sessions at a time. I get bored pretty easily.

    I took a brief glance at what I had on my characters, and I don't think it will be bad to get T9s. I only refined up to T5, and I have about 60 T6, 12 T7, and 1 T8 on my level capped characters, as well as a house full of sealed T6 and T7 relics.

    I never said it was easy--I used 4 years' worth of Khuzdul Tablets and Broken Dwarf Tools, and I'm sure most people don't have 200 T7s just taking up space. But I never bothered with T8 relics in RoI, since they were only tiny upgrades from T6 and T7.

    That said, it was a *lot* more profitable with the Scrolls of Combination. I kind of resent them, since if I didn't have them from another source, I never would have bought the "convenience" from the store. I still have no idea where I got them. Anniversary box and Goody Bag seem like the most likely culprits, since I had 9 of them and 9 characters as of the Anniversary (and I put it all in shared storage before they made them BoA instead of bind to account) or there may have been 3 in each of the 3 Goody Bags.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  8. #58
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    Neither of those are Scroll of Combination sources. Lotterys are most common.

    Any chance you've got any insight into how the crit process works on relics, or what the raw chance is without the scroll?

    I figured you just might have that kind of data =)
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Neither of those are Scroll of Combination sources. Lotterys are most common.

    Any chance you've got any insight into how the crit process works on relics, or what the raw chance is without the scroll?

    I figured you just might have that kind of data =)
    I didn't take any detailed data--it was mostly mindless clicking--but if I had to guess, I'd put the crit chance without the scroll at ~10%. I would get streaks of 8-10 no crits, and 4-5 crits. With the variance of the crits (some give just 3 of the next tier, some give 6 and shards) it would have been impossible to do it by an end count--I would have had to count each combine. And clicking 2 buttons 9,000 times apiece was already mundane enough.

    With the crit scrolls, it is extremely beneficial to combine as high as possible. For example, going to T5 from T4, all you would have to do is return 2 T5s once every 4 combines (25%) to break even. And crits not only often give more than 2, they award ~50-90 shards just from the crit. And you can get 2 T5s *without* a crit. If I had had more scrolls, time, focus, and wristpower, I would have gone to T6 or beyond. Especially since if it takes 10,000 shards/new relic, I'll need at least 600,000 for my characters. I was thrifty with shards in RoI, I'll probably splurge this time.

    [edit to add: I believe the scrolls of combination I was using worked up to creating T7s]
    Last edited by Frisco; Nov 09 2012 at 04:38 PM.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  10. #60
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    I got fast relics and shards by melding relic as low tier as possible up to t4. Then level LI's to max and decon for t5,6,7 relics i combined to t9's. I just bought all lvl76+ LI's for my class on AH for less then 100s each.

    And solo STH T2 first 2 bosses for 150k ixp per boss and a lot of relics.

    Edit: By the way people talking about scroll of combination, you don't get so many more shards from using this scroll. It all depends on the amount of relics you have ofc. Better buy your relics instead if you want to use this scroll since it's a waste of money.
    Last edited by DutchEZmoder; Nov 09 2012 at 07:00 PM.

  11. #61
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    I have plans to get 1,000 Sealed Tier 5 relic boxes from the skirmish camp and decon them then meld all the way to tier 9 in order to compare with my tier 1 Relic Box stats

    will require 250,000 skirmish marks

    going to take me a while to get the marks though

    will report my result in a month or two after ive done the necessary skirmishes to get the marks (800 to 900 skirmishes if i recall)

    this should take me through to xmas and the new instance cluster i hope while at the same time allowing me to gather some hopefully very useful data about relic combines for the lotro community
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchEZmoder View Post

    Edit: By the way people talking about scroll of combination, you don't get so many more shards from using this scroll. It all depends on the amount of relics you have ofc. Better buy your relics instead if you want to use this scroll since it's a waste of money.
    If you say so. The OP started with more T1 relics than I did and came up with 70k shards. I finished with 200k.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  13. #63
    I bought a full bag of sealed T1 relics just for testing purposes.


    Short story: 375 sealed T1 relics worth 2625 skirmish mark combined to T4 net me 16552 shards.

    I started with 0 T1-T4 relics and 20.822 shards.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

    Spent: 2625 skirmish marks for 375 sealed T1 relics.
    Deconstructed them and got:
    T1: 5515 combined to
    T2: 2156 combined to
    T3: 1035 combined to
    T4: 434 (13888 shards)

    I finished with 37.374 shards and at least 150 pieces of 5000 IXP runes.
    Oh, and I didn't use the relic combination scroll since I had none and I'm not willing to pay 200G on AH for it, but I guess it does help a lot, 25% more criticals is huge, I think you could maybe go to T5 with it.

    Hope it helps someone.
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  14. #64
    The relic combine changes were made in update 6. They average return divided by the cost (t1=5, t2=4 etc) appear to average out to around 2.5. So you will get more shards/relic the higher the tier you refine at. However that doesnt include gold cost, which is significant in t6+combines.

    (from an older thread on this topic) here
    After doing a bunch of combines the average combine returns and cost/return (eg for t1-t2 cost=5 and return =2.5).
    It looks like the returns are nearly normalized to the cost (how many relics of the lower tier it takes to make the next highest tier). Regardless its now much more effecient to refine at higher tiers. That being said the previous posters have a point. Combining a bunch of t7s will decon your wallet and fast

    Tier Combines Avg Return Combine cost/Return
    1 52 2.00 2.5
    2 45 1.84 2.17
    3 74 1.72 2.33
    4 80 1.24 2.42
    5 46 1.20 2.51
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  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Any chance you've got any insight into how the crit process works on relics, or what the raw chance is without the scroll?
    Here is the data I've collected so far (all since RoR released). Note that I'm nowhere near enough tests yet to have really good statistics, but I'm high enough to get some trends, and the anecdote is useful since the numbers are starting to become significant:

    Combining Tier 1 relics to Tier 2 (104 combines, total average 2.23 T2 relics, 0.65 shards):
    1 T2 relic: 22 (21%)
    2 T2 relic: 66 (63%)
    4+ T2 relics: 15 (14%) (average 5.2 relics, 4.5 shards)

    Combining Tier 2 to Tier 3 (71 combines, total average 1.83 T3 relics, 0.56 shards):
    1 T3 Relic: 26 (37%)
    2 T3 Relic: 39 (55%)
    2+ T3 Relic: 6 (8%) (average 4.3 relics, 6.7 shards)

    Combining Tier 3 to Tier 4 (36 combines, total average 1.67 T4 relics, 4.39 shards):
    1 T4 Relic: 18 (50%)
    2 T4 Relic: 12 (33%)
    1+ T4 Relic: 6 (17%) (average 3 relics, 26.3 shards)

    Overall: Non-scroll crit rate 27/211 = 12.79% (I'd guess this is either 10% or 12.5% in game, I'm suspecting 10% possible since my average outputs are higher than NZCrusader:

    NZCrusader average 2.05 T2 relics for 5 Tier 1, my 2.23
    NZCrusader average 1.84 T3 relics for 4 Tier 2, my 1.83
    NZCrusader average 1.47 T4 relics for 4 Tier 3, my 1.67

    So let's speculate with some round numbers:

    %s of 25/65/10 output of 1/2/5 T1->T2 result in 2.05 (exactly matching NZCrusader's data)
    %s of 35/55/10 output of 1/2/4 T2->T3 result in 1.85 (almost exactly matching both sets of data)
    %s of 55/35/10 output of 1/2/3 T3->T4 result in 1.55 (above NZCrusader's data)
    %s of 60/30/10 output of 1/2/3 T3->T4 result in 1.50 (just above NZCrusader's data)

    Not saying these are perfect, but they are reasonable guesses at the percentages that fit with what we are actually seeing both in larger aggregate data (NZCrusader) and my smaller detailed crit % data

    With respect to Ateowe's data:
    600 combines T1->2 produced 300 shards, or ~0.5, close to my 0.65 (and my crit rate % was high)
    He says about 1200 tier 2 relics, or very close to NZCrusader's 2.05
    300 Combines T2-T3 produced another 300 shards, 1.0 average is higher than my 0.56 (but my crit rate % was low)
    ~137 combines T3-T4 produced 400 shards, 2.92 lower than my 4.39 (and my crit rate % was high)

    ...but overall we're getting to the pattern on shards.

    Again, this can be matched with 10% crit rate, although with a bit of an issue on T2->3 shard production:
    600 T1->2 combines is 60 crits and at ~5 per crit (slightly higher than my data), it's 300 shards
    300 T2->3 combines is 30 crits and at ~10 shards per crit (much higher than my data)
    137 T3->4 combines is ~14 crits and at ~27 shards per crit (very close) is about 400 shards


    Also some other related analysis:

    Breaking level 3-5 (small "blue pill" [up to 2360 IXP] put into a weapon) items:
    Estimate "standard" return is 3-4 T1 relics (12/17 cases)
    Higher return (7,8, or 11) (5/17 cases)
    Average return: 4.94 Tier 1 relics

    This helps to produce an equivalent value check of value of unidentified low level weapons vs. a sealed tier 1 relic pack (3 low level weapons + IXP [by pill or kill] = 1 tier 1 relic pack)

  16. #66
    So now the key question, what's a scroll of combination worth?

    Note: Need to know from NZCrusader how long it takes him to run the skirmish to really see if these are valuable, I'm assuming 20 minutes since I am not familiar with the skirmish he is running.

    Key conclusion in my opinion: Don't use a scroll of combination until you are combining at least Tier 4->Tier 5, if not T5->T6 or T6->T7. It also requires you can keep it busy for the entire time the scroll is active.

    Let's use:

    %s of 25/65/10 output of 1/2/5 T1->T2 result in 2.05 (exactly matching NZCrusader's data)
    %s of 35/55/10 output of 1/2/4 T2->T3 result in 1.85 (almost exactly matching both sets of data)
    %s of 60/30/10 output of 1/2/3 T3->T4 result in 1.50 (just above NZCrusader's data)

    The averages will jump to:
    2.5 or 2.65 (depending on where the crits come from)
    2.15 or 2.3
    1.65 or 1.8

    Tier 1->2, assume 500 upgrades
    .45 improvement * 500 times = 225 tier 2 relics
    To get 225 T2 would normally take 225*5/2.05 = 548 T1 relics or 37 T1 relic packs, meaning 222 skirmish marks, or ~1.5 skirmishes.
    ...also 15% more produce shards @ 4.5 shards/crit = 500*.15*4.5 = 338 shards
    338 shards is ~1 T8 crafted relic or 5 T6 crafted relics, and thus not all that impressive

    Let's assume it's 20 minutes for the skirmish, 4 minutes for additional melding and 5 minutes for farming/cook prep for a total of 39 minutes. That means the scroll of combination at at 795TP is charging you ~1225TP an hour when doing T1->T2. (ouch).

    Best case (crit % comes from 1 rather than 2) improves this to 0.6 improvement to ~1015TP/hour

    T2->3:
    .30 improvement * 500 times = 150 tier 3 relics
    To get 150 T3 would normally take 791 T1 relics or 53 T1 relic packs, meaning 318 skirmish marks, or about 2 skirmishes.
    ...also 15% more produce shards @ 6.7 shards/crit = 500*.15*6.7 = 502 shards
    502 shards is ~1.5 T8 crafted relic or 8 T6 crafted relics

    Let's assume it's 20 minutes for the skirmish, 8 minutes for additional melding and 7 minutes for farming/cook prep for a total of 55 minutes. That means the scroll of combination at at 795TP is charging you ~865 TP an hour when doing T2->T3.

    Best case (crit % comes from 1 rather than 2) improves this to .45 improvement or ~635 TP/hour

    T3->4:
    .15 improvement * 500 times = 75 tier 4 relics
    To get 75 T4 would normally take 1054 T1 relics or 70 T1 relic packs, meaning 420 skirmish marks, or about 3 skirmishes.
    ...also 15% more produce shards @ 27 shards/crit = 500*.15*27 = 2025 shards
    2025 shards is ~5 T8 crafted relic or 32 T6 crafted relics*

    *Note: At this magnitude of crafted relics, we should get into the statistics of dropping IXP runes and the equivalent value of those items

    Let's assume it's 20 minutes for the skirmish, 12 minutes for additional melding and 15 minutes for farming/cook prep for a total of 87 minutes. That means the scroll of combination at at 795TP is charging you ~550 TP an hour when doing T3->T4.

    Best case (crit % comes from 1 rather than 2) improves this to .30 or ~325 TP/hour

    If we SPECULATE (very little data here and the shard results are becoming inconsistent across the data we have) on T4->5:
    Assume .15 improvement * 500 times = 75 tier 5 relics
    To get 75 T5 would normally take 2531 T1 relics or 169 T1 relic packs, meaning 1014 skirmish marks, or about 7 skirmishes.
    ...also 15% more produce shards @ 52 shards/crit = 500*.15*52 = 3900 shards
    3900 shards is ~11 T8 crafted relic or 61 T6 crafted relics

    Let's assume it's 20 minutes for the skirmish, 25 minutes for additional melding and 25 minutes for farming/cook prep for a total of 3 hr 10 minutes. That means the scroll of combination at at 795TP is charging you ~250 TP an hour when doing T4->T5.

    This is still more TP/hour than grinding new characters, but AT LEAST it's becoming reasonable when you start talking convenience of the scroll in saving you real time.

    The same assumptions for T5->6:
    Assume .15 improvement * 500 times = 75 tier 6 relics
    To get 75 T6 would normally take 6328 T1 relics or 422 T1 relic packs, meaning 2532 skirmish marks, or about 17 skirmishes.
    ...also 15% more produce shards @ 67 shards/crit = 500*.15*67 = 5025 shards
    5025 shards is ~14 T8 crafted relic or 79 T6 crafted relics

    Let's assume it's 20 minutes for the skirmish, 50 minutes for additional melding and 30 minutes for farming/cook prep for a total of 7 hrs. That means the scroll of combination at at 795TP is charging you ~115 TP an hour when doing T5->T6.

    Another data point would be if you assume playing a high level char produces income of 6 gold/hour, that means a scroll of combination is fairly priced at something like 42 gold (7 hours, 6 gold), assuming all of these (somewhat sketchy) assumptions are correct.

  17. #67
    My input!
    For relics my favourite way is to quickly solo StH and NCF t2 (for variety). I do it on my warden cause it s the easiest and quickest, but before anyone cries 'we can,t do that!' I do it in full dps mode (7.5k morale) and have done it on other toons too (cappy, LM and champ so far). Reason I use warden is cause I can pull all mobs between bosses and quickly aoe them down, and more importantly warden dps is high now so bosses take seconds. Each run takes about 15 mins, which returns about 15 50kxp runes and hmm, around 18 or so tier 5 relics (I think).
    Run both and I usually get at least one tier 9 relic just from the relic boxes. I tend to do it twice a week for the tokens, good for cosmetics

    For shards I just craft the three rarest relics, along with the purple quality rohan crafted relic every week across my 11 crafting toons. This allows me to get plenty of shards from refining all of those. For non-crafters id recommend buying stupid amounts of low tier relics and refining around the tier 4 stage.
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  18. #68
    I like Stoneheight for farming relics. But I agree with the idea that buying T2 relics (and now) combining them upward is most efficient.


    1 more thing to consider, there is a hytbold instance (85) that can be farmed for gold and LI XP (from kills) very effectively. If you haven't tried it with a group then you should. Ask around...If your servers AH has reasonable relic prices then this works very effectively on a comparative time basis to farming Skirmish marks. My results have been 10 times normal for Gold-per-hour than any other mob farming I've seen yet in game.
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  19. #69
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    Bumping for those who missed it, especially now that people are farming Durchest 'til their eyes bleed so there are probably a lot more people getting 2nd ages and needing shards/relics.

    BG gives *tons* of marks. I think a T2 clear gives over 6,000 marks, while a T1 full clear gives just over 4,000. Not to mention T1 Durchest giving 800-something marks, and can be farmed endlessly if that's your thing (it ain't mine). I was at just about zero skirmish marks and was almost out of sealed relic boxes and shards when BG came out, but just doing a T1 clear each day (with several days missed) I've earned enough marks to make the relics and shards for my RK's lightning stone and bag, which was 4 T9 True Relics + 2 T9 relics (so a total of 18 T9's and about 40,000 shards).
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  20. #70
    What's your strategy for getting the shards? Given all the changes I am not sure how much of this thread is valid. I have plenty of marks, but what level is best for deconstructing for shards? I saw that with my lower level ones, up to tier 4 (iirc) it was worthwhile to combine for higher tiers but at tier 4 combining often gave only 1 tier 5, which was no longer efficient. I find i am still short shards to meld the tier 9 relics.
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorebook LI guide
    Refining 1 Tier 4 Relic yields 32 Shards.

    Refining 1 Tier 5 Relic yields 79 Shards
    As you need 3 T4 relics (3x32 shards = 96 shards) to combine to 1 T5 (=79 shards) the shard profit is bigger at T4 considering you get just one T5 most of the times.

    If you got/use a Scroll of Combination (+25% crit on combining), you might get better results at T5 ...

    Something like 4x 3 T4 = 384 shards < 5 T5 = 395 shards if you just get one crit with 2 T5 when combining 4 times. The more lucky on crit, the better the result.

    I used SoC when combining T1---->T5, unfortunately I didn't do statistics so this is just my humble opinion. What I noticed is that I got a lot of 'SLOW DOWN ... too many requests!'
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by revoked View Post
    What's your strategy for getting the shards? Given all the changes I am not sure how much of this thread is valid. I have plenty of marks, but what level is best for deconstructing for shards? I saw that with my lower level ones, up to tier 4 (iirc) it was worthwhile to combine for higher tiers but at tier 4 combining often gave only 1 tier 5, which was no longer efficient. I find i am still short shards to meld the tier 9 relics.
    What changes? I made this thread after Rohan came out.

    I spend my marks on sealed T1 relics from the skirmish camp, decon those, combine them up to T4, then refine those for shards. One run through BG T1 gives 4k marks, which should be at least 10,000 shards via this method. Probably more like 20,000.
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  23. #73
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    I'm personally still mostly using my skirmish marks for the scrolls of empowerment. For those without excess skirmish marks or needing to do more solo, a few other good ways to get relics/shards remain:

    1) crafted relics (you can do a bunch per guilded crafter per week). These give lots of shards. Run crafting instance gives you the Compendium IV and lots of materials, Galtev daily gives you compendium III
    2) First boss (or all bosses) stoneheight tier 1. Really quick, full run gives 10 T4 relics and a bunch of 50k IXP pills.
    3) Running LIs up to level 60 gives T7. You can accelerate this with the IXP pills from #2 above.

    None of those are as fast as Durchest or Dungeons rinse/repeat. But you can do the above solo or in down time.

  24. #74

    Beating a dead horse

    The information in this thread is still accurate to follow, correct? I figure it's a good idea to ask every 4/5 months Im sitting on about 700 T4 relics and I was going to decon them, but with a combine scroll in hand now... I think I might bring them to T5 to decon now. I have a bunch of random combines to do from T6-T8 anyway, so now seems like the right time to ask.
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  25. #75
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    Well, for reference, my guard just reached 85 a few days ago, so had to get relics for his new 85 LIs. I had just used random T5 relics while levelling, and passed 3-5 stacks of sealed T5+T6 relics from my other chars to him. Just reforging all the relics I gained from levelling + those passed up to T8/T9 gave me about 20k shards from the crits (with one scroll of combination), though it costed about 110 gold :/
    But generally I just decon+refine crafted guild relics, cheaper and esp. faster (as in: less clicks) to get shards that way.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

 

 
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