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  1. #26
    I can't publish all of my data, but i will publish my averages and results. They are very similar to NZ's.

    All of my samples are based on spending an average of 1400 marks. This results in 200 T1 fused relics or 75 T2 fused relics (1425m). As a result everything is averaged in terms of relics or shards per mark.

    Bartering for T1 averages 1200 T2 relics or 8.5 relics per mark.

    Bartering for T2 averages 1100 T2 relics or 7.8 relics per mark.

    One can save some gold by starting at T2, but for the purposes of my experiment I started at T1. Each entry includes the average per mark, average per gold. The average shards from refinement (RS) and cumulative average (total of all previous tiers) shards for those produced by crits are included in parenthesis.

    Tier 1 averaged 2.1 shards per mark and 19,000 shards per gold. (3000 RS)

    Tier 2 averaged 2.8 shards per mark and 3000 shards per gold. (3600 RS, 300 CS)

    Tier 3 averaged 3.9 shards per mark and 1900 shards per gold. (4900 RS, 600 CS)

    Tier 4 averaged 5.8 shards per mark and 1700 shards per gold. (7000 RS, 1000 CS)

    Tier 5 averaged 7.4 shards per mark and 1400 shards per gold. (8800 RS, 1400 CS)

    Tier 6 averaged 7.3 shards per mark and 1000 shards per gold. (8400 RS, 1700 CS)

    Tiers 3 to 4 and 4 to 5 produced the largest number of shards per crit, averaging just over 400 for those tiers while averaging in the low 300s for each other tier. T6 saw a 6% drop from T5 refined shards but is statistically even in shards per mark due to the shards produced in crits.

    To conclude, my recommendation is to always start at T1 and refine at T5. That will produce the largest number of shards for the initial investment of marks. One can save about 15% gold by starting at T2 while taking an estimated 9% reduction in shards. However, for saving even more gold one should eliminate tier 5. This saves roughly 35% gold while only taking a 20% reduction in shard output.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000000af3c6/01008/signature.png]Ateowe[/charsig]

  2. #27
    Both posts show your great work, +rep
    One thing to correct though.

    Quote Originally Posted by NZCrusader View Post
    Reset Time on Each Crafted Relic Barter Item Recipe:

    - Supreme Tier 1 = 18 Hours
    - Supreme Tier 2 = 2 Days and 18 Hours
    - Supreme Tier 3 = 6 Days and 18 Hours
    - Westfold Tier 1 = 2 Days and 18 Hours
    - Westfold Tier 3 = 6 Days and 18 Hours
    - Eastemnet Tier 1 = 2 Days and 18 Hours
    - Eastemnet Tier 3 = 6 Days and 18 Hours

    Amount of Each Relic you can Craft in a Week:

    - Supreme Tier 1 = 7
    - Supreme Tier 2 = 2
    - Supreme Tier 3 = 1
    - Westfold Tier 1 = 2
    - Westfold Tier 3 = 1
    - Eastemnet Tier 1 = 2
    - Eastemnet Tier 3 = 1

    (note you could in theory craft 9 supreme Tier 1's but the special ingredient makes this problematic as will be explained below)

    Special Ingredients:

    Compendium of Middle-Earth Volume 1 - Moria, Anazarmekhem, 13.3S by 108.1W
    Compendium of Middle-Earth Volume 2 - Mirkwood, Ost Galadh, 14.5S by 51.5W
    Compendium of Middle-Earth Volume 3 - Dunland, Galtrev, 80.2S by 16.8W
    Compendium of Middle-Earth Volume 4 - East Rohan, Hybold, 57.9S by 55.0W

    Compendiums are obtained by doing a daily quest which means you can obtain a maximum of 7 of each type per week

    This is the reason you can't make 9 Supreme Tier 1 Relics as you can't get enough compendiums from the quest alone

    (There is of course the AH and other Players but that is beyond the scope of this experiment)
    Following your naming convention:
    Tier 1 Relics doesn't require special ingredients.
    CoM-E Volume 1 is required for Supreme Tier 2 relic
    CoM-E Volume 2 is required for Supreme Tier 3 relic
    CoM-E Volume 3 is required for Westfold Tier 3 relic
    CoM-E Volume 4 is required for Eastemnet Tier 3 relic

    So it is possible to make 9 Supreme Tier 1 relics.
    As a side note I'll add that, except AH and other players, CoM-E Volumes 1-3 are available from Crafting Vendor in any Skirmish Camp.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2b225000000018034/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingion View Post
    Both posts show your great work, +rep
    One thing to correct though.



    Following your naming convention:
    Tier 1 Relics doesn't require special ingredients.
    CoM-E Volume 1 is required for Supreme Tier 2 relic
    CoM-E Volume 2 is required for Supreme Tier 3 relic
    CoM-E Volume 3 is required for Westfold Tier 3 relic
    CoM-E Volume 4 is required for Eastemnet Tier 3 relic

    So it is possible to make 9 Supreme Tier 1 relics.
    As a side note I'll add that, except AH and other players, CoM-E Volumes 1-3 are available from Crafting Vendor in any Skirmish Camp.
    Good point, thanks for pointing that out, will make the necessary correction later today.

    Thanks
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000019762/01007/signature.png]Tarthaliondor[/charsig]

  4. #29
    The shard grind seems endless to me... It's very useful to have help from users who have tested methods, but I still would rather this was revised and made less time consuming.

  5. #30
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    i don't think the shard grind is endless -- simply another *currency* that has value -- especially if you are interested in some of the mounted relics or T9 relics -- you will need shards. The conversation that has occured are trying to find ways to maximize shards and minimize efforts.

    Whether or not I *like* the current implemenation of the system -- it is what we have. I remember fondly (or not so much after the effort to achieve them) when the LAST set of top tier relics collapsed into obsolence (still using adamant gem of dreams! :*) ). I was very excited and relived to realize that we wouldn't need tier nine relics again...oh wait...

    ...and now...mounted relics? ...

    In short -- I very much appreciate the guides, math, experimentation being put into figuring out methods to get shards!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/062050000000aa753/01004/signature.png]Roselindea[/charsig]

  6. #31
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    Shards might not be the biggest problem after all. Needing specific tier 9 relics to meld something could be. I honestly can't imagine doing this. Fortunately it's just for bridle relics (in my case), and considering how well I perform already, I will probably settle down with lvl75 ones, "only" requiring tier8's, which is still pretty bad, but somewhat more doable.
    [color=#33FFFF]Many philosophical problems are caused by such things as the simple inability to shut up.[/color]

  7. #32
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    Experiment Phase Three - Skirmishes for Marks and Gold to Fund Phase One Technique

    Notes:

    The purpose of this phase of my experiment is to see how many skirmishes you would need to run on average to get enough marks to repeat the technique described in phase one of the experiment (7,000 marks)

    I also wanted to see how much gold would be earned while doing this.

    I chose the skirmish - Battle in the Tower - to get my data from and took a data sample size of 10 skirmishes which I am going to use to extrapolate the required number of skirmishes.

    I am acting on the assumption that item repair bills won't be too much and that no encounters or NPC's die and also that any medallions or relics acquired will be ignored.

    I'm also not factoring in the time it takes to run the required number of skirmishes as that will vary greatly from person to person.

    I ran the Skirmish as Tier 1 Level 85 without the Instance Finder Bonus, if run at Higher Tiers and/or Levels, or with the Instance Finder Bonus then it should reduce the number of Skirmishes needed

    Summary of Results:

    - 46 skirmishes needed to get 7,000 skirmish marks
    - Profit after refining at Tier 4 = 35 Gold, 879 Silver, 10 Copper
    - Profit after refining at Tier 5 = 24 Gold, 679 Silver, 10 Copper
    - Average Skirmish Mark Gain per Skirmish = 153
    - Average Master Guardsman Bounty Gain per Skirmish = 2
    - Average Veteran Master Guardsman Bounty per Skirmish = 1

    Data Breakdown:

    - A Master Guardsman Bounty is worth 46 Silver and 38 Copper
    - A Veteran Master Guardsman Bounty is worth 175 Silver

    Skirmish 1 Result:

    - 156 Marks Gained
    - 1 Gold, 67 Silver, 39 Copper Gained
    - 3 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 2 Result:

    - 156 Marks Gained
    - 1 Gold, 72 Silver, 34 Copper Gained
    - 3 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 3 Result:

    - 156 Marks Gained
    - 1 Gold, 60 Silver, 89 Copper Gained
    - 1 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 4 Result:

    - 156 Marks Gained
    - 1 Gold, 36 Silver, 2 Copper Gained
    - 3 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 5 Result:

    - 148 Marks Gained
    - 0 Gold, 996 Silver, 14 Copper Gained
    - 4 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 6 Result:

    - 164 Marks Gained
    - 1 Gold, 5 Silver, 39 Copper Gained
    - 3 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 7 Result:

    - 156 Marks Gained
    - 1 Gold, 61 Silver, 39 Copper Gained
    - 3 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 8 Result:

    - 156 Marks Gained
    - 0 Gold, 995 Silver, 64 Copper Gained
    - 5 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 9 Result:

    - 133 Marks Gained
    - 0 Gold, 984 Silver, 64 Copper Gained
    - 2 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Skirmish 10 Result:

    - 156 Marks Gained
    - 1 Gold, 31 Silver, 14 Copper Gained
    - 1 Master Guardsman Bounties Gained
    - 1 Veteran Master Guardsman Bounties Gained

    Conclusion:

    Based on the above results I must conclude that if you have the ability to run skirmishes very quickly then it is best to combine the relics to Tier 4 then refine into shards for the highest profit after relic combine expenses while still getting a large amount of shards to spend
    Last edited by NZCrusader; Oct 30 2012 at 08:39 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000019762/01007/signature.png]Tarthaliondor[/charsig]

  8. #33
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    Wow, thank you guys so much for putting actual work and math into my lazy armchair guessing! Much +rep.

    Rose, I should have clarified: my skirmish soldier traits were all at rank 35 (is that the highest tier that was available at level 75? I can't remember now). I purchased the reset scroll and only leveled the soldier back up to 75 (rank 31 traits) and wound up with the skirmish mark excess.

    I'm not really the biggest fan of doing solo skirms. I find them incredibly tedious. However, I do enjoy raid skirms and have been doing/will be doing lots of them because they're really the only raid content available right now and have relatively good rewards (nice teals, IXP pills, Tier 8 relic boxes, 2nd age symbols). If you're participating in the skirm raid "grind" like lots of folks are, you've probably got a lot of marks coming in. You also get a decent amount of marks from doing Warbands, and I'd suggest that doing those might be even more efficient for the solo player than doing solo skirms.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000019dccb/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

    Ulver - 85 Runekeeper | Grevling - 85 Burglar

  9. #34
    Okay.. but how does one go about getting t9 relics in a somewhat timely fashion? Raid skirmishes aren't the answer as you have to luck out on winning the roll. I don't see Stoneheight or normal skirmishes as an answer either as it will take a huge amount of lower level relics to get to 1 t9.
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  10. #35
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    While not the fastest method out there, I have been grinding level 76+ LIs to level 60, then deconning them, take the rune produced (which can range anywhere from 300k to 900k IXP) and use it on a new LI.

    I have been running around 5 or 6 parallel (hooray for maxing out the LI slots), and found this to be a fairly good source of relics, especially if you have been catching the IXP from doing a lot of tasks while going through Rohan, and I've already produced the three T9 True relics, and I'm 4/6 for the T9's needed to meld into mounted combat.

    As far as generating shards go - if you take a max LI level decon, and shard all relics from the decon, it nets you around 4k shards. Using the methods described above with this should help you generate the desired top end relics fairly fast.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothirieth View Post
    Okay.. but how does one go about getting t9 relics in a somewhat timely fashion? Raid skirmishes aren't the answer as you have to luck out on winning the roll. I don't see Stoneheight or normal skirmishes as an answer either as it will take a huge amount of lower level relics to get to 1 t9.
    I don't really think there's any easy AND cheap way to get T9's. Some of us were able to do a lot of group content in RoI and thus had large numbers of sealed relic boxes laying around. I had a couple stacks of T7's and T6's and many stacks of T5's. One stack of 25 T5 relic boxes is about enough to combine up to one T9 relic.

    Sealed T8 relics drop from raid skirm chests, but you've gotta win the rolls for those so it's not reliable or quick.

    I think you could produce a good number of T9's by spending skirm marks on sealed T1's as described above and combining up to T9. That would probably be the most affordable in terms of non-gold currency investment (i.e. very few marks) but would take a decent amount of gold to combine to T9's. On the other end of the spectrum, if you're sitting on vast quantities of seals and medallions, you can buy sealed T8's in the skirmish camp now. That would be really quick and the cheapest gold-wise but would of course deplete your seal and medallion reserves that are hard to replenish currently.

    Deconning 76+ LI's at max level might be a pretty decent option for those who can do lots of tasks, lots of IXP pills saved up or some other method of leveling and deconning LI's easily.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000019dccb/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

    Ulver - 85 Runekeeper | Grevling - 85 Burglar

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    Deconning 76+ LI's at max level might be a pretty decent option for those who can do lots of tasks, lots of IXP pills saved up or some other method of leveling and deconning LI's easily.
    Well I am working on a list and so far I am up to 223k IXP per day easy and that does not even count all of Lothlorien and beyond. There is probably at least 2 mil IXP if you did every daily... maybe more... if you were that bored... lol
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroburn View Post
    Well I am working on a list and so far I am up to 223k IXP per day easy and that does not even count all of Lothlorien and beyond. There is probably at least 2 mil IXP if you did every daily... maybe more... if you were that bored... lol
    One stoneheight T2 run gives about a million item XP and takes under 20 minutes.
    Mellichae - R12 Champion
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  14. #39
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    Yea I'd like to see a stone height test. How many runs solo (1st boss t2 farm or full run?) to get t9? Or even how many shards would a single stone height run get you if you refined all?
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  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by eskla View Post
    One stoneheight T2 run gives about a million item XP and takes under 20 minutes.
    Yes, but not everyone can solo it... And to the fact that I have not gotten that far, and I am not counting loot in chests, just the quests.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoman73 View Post
    Yea I'd like to see a stone height test. How many runs solo (1st boss t2 farm or full run?) to get t9? Or even how many shards would a single stone height run get you if you refined all?
    I just did a quick Stoneheight Tier 1 run solo on my Lv 85 Guard to see if it would be practicable for me to run it on tier 2 to farm IXP runes.

    Given the lack of guard DPS i had to use a few morale potions and many guard cool down skills to get through it in one piece.

    Im sure there will be some high DPS classes that could use this to make a lot of IXP runes quickly

    For me personally i wont be using this instance to farm IXP but here are my loot results from Tier 1 in case its of use to you.

    took me 30 minutes on my guard by the way.

    6 x 50,200 IXP Runes
    10 x Tier 4 Relic Boxes

    I didn't loot the trash mobs but i imagine that they might yield some decent amounts of trash loot and silver to make some money on the side

    also got a lv65 star lit crystal (worthless to me at lv85), not sure if its guaranteed at each run or random loot but could be useful to any alts your working on.
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  17. #42
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    In terms of farming StH just grab two kinnies and blast through it. I ran in a champ/champ/hunter farming group last week, average time to do T2HM was ~4min, rinse and repeat for a half hour or so. We honestly didn't even grab most of the IXP because we were blasting through so fast the relics were the real bounty.
    "We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result... we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. " - E R Murrow

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkens View Post
    We honestly didn't even grab most of the IXP because we were blasting through so fast the relics were the real bounty.
    This was a big mistake. You could have used the IXP to level L76+ LIs to L60 and the deconstructed to get a bunch of Tier 7s along with lower tiers too.

  19. #44
    I still think the fastest way is skirm hopping. Enter something like the ford, equip junk items, kill a wave all but 1 or 2 mobs, leave, bust, repeat.

    If you have a lot of marks, getting a bunch of the cheapest relic wads from those at the skirm camp is also effective. 200 or so of those will get you a tier 9 and a close to enough shards to make 1 useful relic.
    Draegon:
    "stack all the morale you want but dont come on here wonderin why you aint hittin hard! :D"

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZCrusader View Post
    I just did a quick Stoneheight Tier 1 run solo on my Lv 85 Guard to see if it would be practicable for me to run it on tier 2 to farm IXP runes.

    Given the lack of guard DPS i had to use a few morale potions and many guard cool down skills to get through it in one piece.

    Im sure there will be some high DPS classes that could use this to make a lot of IXP runes quickly

    For me personally i wont be using this instance to farm IXP but here are my loot results from Tier 1 in case its of use to you.

    took me 30 minutes on my guard by the way.

    6 x 50,200 IXP Runes
    10 x Tier 4 Relic Boxes

    I didn't loot the trash mobs but i imagine that they might yield some decent amounts of trash loot and silver to make some money on the side

    also got a lv65 star lit crystal (worthless to me at lv85), not sure if its guaranteed at each run or random loot but could be useful to any alts your working on.
    I ran STHt2ch solo with my lvl85 champ, took me around 20min, used might food and scrolls and no long cd skills. I got 19 runes 50,200iXP = 953,800 ixP and deconning the relic boxes I got 43 t4 relics. Quite effective

    Loot the trash if you got free bagspace, looting the silver alone pays for repairs and food/scrolls.

    PS: When soloing, it's easier and quicker to sneak past the sleeping wolves ... just switch from running to walking and don't step on the tails
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  21. #46
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    Another easy way to get (T1) relics is farming Rusted Dwarf Tools and Khudzul Tablets in Moria. They drop a lot and since the latest patch can be bartered for 1x T1 Relics (Rusted Dwarf Tools) and 2x T1 Relics (Khudzul Tablets) which can then be combined into higher tiers.

    I had >50 RDT and >50 KT left after finishing Moria, other people may have similar or even higher numbers. Although it does tend give you RSI after combining so many relics :P...

  22. #47
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    Thanks for this thread, btw...inspired me to farm some shards.

    Armed with 8 Scrolls of Combination from some lottery or goody bag (maybe anniversary awards?) and ~1000 T1 relics (from 10 characters' worth of Tablets and Rusted Tools) I ended up with 200,000 shards and 5 Million in IXP runes. I combined them all up to T5 and refined. T5 made sense with the +25% crit scrolls.

    Took me 2 hours and 50G, but I can relax about making crafted relics for a while.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZCrusader View Post
    I just did a quick Stoneheight Tier 1 run solo on my Lv 85 Guard to see if it would be practicable for me to run it on tier 2 to farm IXP runes.

    Given the lack of guard DPS i had to use a few morale potions and many guard cool down skills to get through it in one piece.

    Im sure there will be some high DPS classes that could use this to make a lot of IXP runes quickly

    For me personally i wont be using this instance to farm IXP but here are my loot results from Tier 1 in case its of use to you.

    took me 30 minutes on my guard by the way.

    6 x 50,200 IXP Runes
    10 x Tier 4 Relic Boxes

    I didn't loot the trash mobs but i imagine that they might yield some decent amounts of trash loot and silver to make some money on the side

    also got a lv65 star lit crystal (worthless to me at lv85), not sure if its guaranteed at each run or random loot but could be useful to any alts your working on.
    On Riddermark a small star lit sells for 5-10 gold, and on tier 2 you get about 8 gold from one run just from opening the chests. I don't play guard but on champ if I trait glory the whole thing is pretty easy to solo on tier 2 I usually get about 12-16 IXP runes and ~45 T4 relics. (Relics, not sealed relics. That's after I decon.)
    Mellichae - R12 Champion
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  24. #49
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    Where is this barter person to trade in my old khuzdul tabs and rusted tools?
    [CENTER][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/Eriendel/"][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000001b57/01007/signature.png]Eriendel[/charsig][/URL][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][SIZE=5]
    [/SIZE] [SIZE=5][COLOR=#3d991a]T[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#4ba02a]h[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#58a83a]e[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5] [/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#73b65a]L[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#81bd6a]a[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#8ec57a]s[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#9ccc8b]t[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5] [/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#b7dbab]K[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#c4e2bb]n[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#d2e9cb]i[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#dff0db]g[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#edf8eb]h[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#fafffb]t[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#edf8eb]s[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5] [/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#d2e9cb]o[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#c4e2bb]f[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5] [/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#a9d39b]G[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#9ccc8b]o[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#8ec57a]n[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#81bd6a]d[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#73b65a]o[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#66af4a]l[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#58a83a]i[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=5][COLOR=#4ba02a]n[/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [/CENTER]
    [CENTER][COLOR=Yellow][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/Eriendel"]Eriendel ~ 75 Hunter Brandywine[/URL][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=White][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/shimblie/"]Shimblie ~ 65 Runekeeper Brandywine[/URL][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Cyan][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/lariele/"]Lariele ~ 75 Captain Brandywine[/URL][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Cyan][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/Dolu/"]Dolu ~ 75 Warden Brandywine[/URL][/COLOR]
    [/CENTER]

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    252
    It's the same npc where you barter for your class's LI.

    I know one in 21st hall just outside the vault, and there's one in Bree between the Prancing Pony and the West Gate. There may be more too.

 

 
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