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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr View Post
    Another very good question. However, I don't have an answer for it at this time!

    Let me ask some questions and I will post here with my results.
    Confirmed that yes, a Mac client will be available for Palantir testing!

  2. #27
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    so what about the people that are working closely with the devs on certain mechanics and changes...Now we can't do that anymore because we get kicked out in the middle of working on it?

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrabath View Post
    If it's mostly a preview program, then this change makes sense.
    As I heard it, it's a pre-preview program. They old isengard program was an alpha-testing server as I understood it from people who've been in it. Ie, you see content before it's finished, features are still being decided upon, etc. Whereas beta is supposed to be a more finalized form, with emphasis on finding bugs rather than feedback that will change how a feature is implemented, though of course it's not always that clean. Beta is also somewhat a preview server too, so that players will eventually let other players know what's going on and create player guides and so forth. Palantir presumably never tell anyone what happens in Palantir.

    since you will probably lose a lot of experienced testers who know how to give feedback, what to test etc.
    Well, they still have an application process. Plus you don't always want the same old fogies looking at stuff. They want a broad based range of people; not just soloers, not just raiders, not just people at max level. If they always stick with the same people maybe they end up overlooking some areas that need looking at?

    The fact that you guys had to delay RoR because a couple of things didn't work as good as hoped/expected makes me wonder if reducing player testing is a good idea;
    The problems with Rohan were more than just a couple of things that didn't work. A lot of things were basically just not finished and given the time line it did not seem likely that it wasn't going to be finished in time. Not talking about bugs per se, but unfinished content, like quests with only minimal descriptions, lack of translations to German/French, balancing of mounted and pvp skills, etc. I don't want to sound too harsh, but it really did feel like it was not yet ready for Beta.

  4. #29
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    "NOTE: If you have multiple subscriptions under this username, please provide the Subscription Nickname of the VIP subscription you would like to use"

    For the purpose of others who may be confused by the mismatching information presented in +Kehleyr's post above The VIP qualifier is not necessary. Apply you Premium players!

    edit: The purpose of this post rather than a PM is because we were expressly told NOT to PM regarding this thread.
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  5. #30
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    six months is to long for me I think. Three months of Beta wore me out totally! Just thougt I would say Hi :

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saelyth View Post
    Are european players eligible for this as well or it's only for NA players?
    Yes, European Players have been allowed to apply to this Program since Migration(former Codemaster accounts, that is, if that's what you meant).
    Hir i Meigol Bruinen/High Council Member of the EoI/Of the Exiles of the Hidden City/Meigol Bruinen, Uncle Seregnin's Misguided Children, Curse the name of Maeglin, the Treacherous Villain, forever, may he rot in the Halls of Mandos for all time....
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  7. #32
    Is the Palantir program still accepting applications?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redstar View Post
    Is the Palantir program still accepting applications?
    Pretty sure they are still accepting applications. If +Kehleyr is running it like before, she will post an update when they are ready to send out the current invites. Something like "everyone from day one when they started accepting invites through Nov. 15th". Anything from Nov. 16th on will be considdered for the next invite. So unless +K says to stop sening in applications, they are still accepting.

    Keep a watch on the first couple of posts in this thread. +Kehleyr is pretty good about keeping them up-to-date so you don't have to dig through the thread for her posts.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redstar View Post
    Is the Palantir program still accepting applications?
    Yes, we are! We accept applications year-round, even if the program goes offline for a time.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoronthor View Post
    You will end up with a fresh batch of testers every 6 months that have absolutely no clue what is expected of them or how the devs prefer to receive their feedback, or what they find important.
    Putting on my "I used to be a game developer and I still am a software developer" hat for a moment, I think you may be wrong on this.

    My own experience—both as a beta-tester for various things *and* as a developer who has run beta tests—is that even the best, most experienced teams will reach a state of inertia. This is why it's often nice to get fresh eyes into a testing cycle; they see things everyone else had taken for granted.

    Think of it like someone joining your tabletop group and, upon learning one of your house-rules changes to the system you're using, asking, "Well, I see you're trying to solve this issue in the system, but why do it that way and not this other way?" Everyone else at the table has been using this house rule for 3 years and just sort of accepts it as given, but someone with a fresh perspective might have a good alternative no one considered.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packet View Post
    Think of it like someone joining your tabletop group and, upon learning one of your house-rules changes to the system you're using, asking, "Well, I see you're trying to solve this issue in the system, but why do it that way and not this other way?" Everyone else at the table has been using this house rule for 3 years and just sort of accepts it as given, but someone with a fresh perspective might have a good alternative no one considered.

    The thing with this 6-mth rotation is nothing like you describe

    They are not "Joining your table-top group" as you put it

    They are REPLACING it

    If you have 6 people in your group now, those 6 people will have to wait 6-mth before reapplying
    You will have 6 new people, with the usual start up questions.... what do I do, where do I post, is this a bug, why is this not working who do I see for this stuff etc.........

    My suggestion would be to set a number for testers
    Mix that number with Older Testers and New Testers

    At least that way the newer testers at the table can ask the older ones for help should a "How do I .... " situation arise

    We have seen plenty of silly stuff on the forums during open betas. When the Devs have posted "How-to's" on the forum. And as soon as you log in game, the first question comes up.... "How do I .....?"
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packet View Post

    that even the best, most experienced teams will reach a state of inertia. This is why it's often nice to get fresh eyes into a testing cycle; they see things everyone else had taken for granted.
    I agree... especially since this game has a complicated past. Long term testers also have a high probability of seeing things in a certain, static, light... Something fresh players and eyes might be able to see past.

    IMHO, the real solution is to offer compensation. Up the requirements for entrance AND keeping a spot, but provide something for effort (even if TP on live). This would allow people to perform via time/bugs/etc who really want to keep their spots. I know I passed this last beta round as its very frustrating from previous beta rounds to report bugs only to see them make live. It removes the "Do you gain a sense of pride when you file bugs, knowing that you've helped us improve the game by doing so?" for me. So, for me, I either need to see the impact or I need an alternate form of motivation. (just providing feedback ).

    One thing I do want to mention... this seems like a contradiction to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr
    Do you have a few hours of free time a week that you would like to devote to helping us test LOTRO?
    and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr
    If real life obligations or hobbies (including playing on Live) take up the majority of your spare time, the Preview Program may not be right for you... If you feel you will not be able to regularly participate on the server, this program may not be right for you.
    In my small world view a few could mean 3 hours. Can you set expectations between 3 hours a week and we need a majority of your spare time?

  13. #38
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    I have a question regarding re-submitting applications. In your first post, as you described the ways you are revamping the program, you mentioned that you will need to limit the number of testers involved at any given time. Then, in your FAQ post you say that you encourage people who did not get in the first time to re-apply but not to submit the exact same application -- to add any pertinent information they feel may have been left out the first time. What I'm wondering is, when you are ready for the second 6-month-round are you going to review applications from the first 6-month-round?

    I ask because it sounds like including all the possibly pertinent information in the application might increase someone's chances of getting in; but then there's nothing to add for the second 6-month period and they would have to submit the same application, or not submit at all, which seems like if you don't get in the first time you never will, even though the pool of applicants and testers is going to be changing every 6 months.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hucklebarry View Post
    Can you set expectations between 3 hours a week and we need a majority of your spare time?
    No where is it stated we 'need the majority' of your spare time.

    We have no way of knowing what your personal needs are, or how you wish to spend your free time. If 3-4 hours a week devoted to Palantir is how you want to spend it, then we are more than happy to have you.

    What we don't want to happen is folks to feel obligated to log in whether they have the free time or not.

    We were very careful to use the words 'may not be right for you'. Only you can decide what is right for you and how you spend your spare time. All we are trying to do is give you some things to consider about how that time might be spent.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitza View Post
    What I'm wondering is, when you are ready for the second 6-month-round are you going to review applications from the first 6-month-round?
    Applications will be purged from one round to the next, so no, we won't be reviewing past applications from one round to another.

    While not going into the details of our process, I will say that we base participation solely on the application. We won't deny an application because we've 'met our numbers', which seems to be the basis of your question.

    I hope this answers your concern.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr View Post
    No where is it stated we 'need the majority' of your spare time.

    We have no way of knowing what your personal needs are, or how you wish to spend your free time. If 3-4 hours a week devoted to Palantir is how you want to spend it, then we are more than happy to have you.

    What we don't want to happen is folks to feel obligated to log in whether they have the free time or not.

    We were very careful to use the words 'may not be right for you'. Only you can decide what is right for you and how you spend your spare time. All we are trying to do is give you some things to consider about how that time might be spent.
    Can you give more information about when the time is you require from us. I have sometimes time during the week, but rarely during the weekend. Unfortunately past beta rounds for RoR, often Bullroarer was online in the weekend and down during the week. So if Palintir is only open during the weekend, it might be silly to apply.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DobbelB_EU View Post
    Can you give more information about when the time is you require from us. I have sometimes time during the week, but rarely during the weekend. Unfortunately past beta rounds for RoR, often Bullroarer was online in the weekend and down during the week. So if Palintir is only open during the weekend, it might be silly to apply.
    We don't shut Palantir down unless we have to, which is rarely. It's usually up and running 24/7 and only comes down for patches.

    Raina coordinates events as flexibly as possible, however she does work around the developers a lot, so you may not be able to participate in some events. However any testing you are able to do and bugs you file will be beneficial to us, so even if you can't participate in events your contribution will still be valued.

  18. #43
    So I have a question that I am hoping a Dev can answer. I am the IT Manager for the company I work for, so I have full control and can see everything happening on my Exchange Server. I trying to email you guys my new app, but its just sitting in que and says, " The remore server is not responding to your request." I have emailed my app before in the past and it has always gone out. Is there something going on on your end? I have double checked and have made sure my domain is not on a black list and we are using reverse dns and all other email going out from my mail server is working.

  19. #44
    I have a suggestion...

    Since the PPP is intended to be a fast-turnaround user-based QA program for product updates, it sounds like efficient testing is an important goal. And, since I've noticed that occasionally pre-existing elements -- thinkgs it's easy to take for granted, since they were working fine in the last patch -- wind up broken from one patch to the next, it might be a good idea to have a standard checklist in the PPP Discussion Boards for the devs to check off as the elements are verified.

    For example, one bug that seems to pop up frequently in beta testing is problems with stable-master mount pathing. In one such case, I discovered a bug for the goat route from Anazarmakhem to the 21st Hall in Moria, in which the goat would suddenly and consistently get lost en route at a certain point, and begin to circle aimlessly as though the AI in its pathing logic had a bug in it. In another case, the stable pony running the route from Aughaire to Esteldin would consistently be blocked by a small rock on the slope up to the east entrance to Esteldin, and would run in place.

    It might help if the devs create a big master list of all the routine in-game elements that need to be tested to verify they still work correctly, and update the list with checkmarks that players have verified are working as intended. The list could be re-used with updates whenever a new round of PPP testing begins.

    Well, as always in beta testing, the fun comes in trying to break things. So, testers, have at 'em! Break it, exploit shamelessly, and do your darndest to jam your character through every chink in the landscape you can find! Whack that 2-zillion-Morale fire-drake with a frying pan, to make sure the pan doesn't do six jillion points' worth of damage at a whack! Be creative, be fun, and think 'waaaaaay outside the box! Most bugs reported wins! Wins what...? Uhhhhh... *blank stare* *points helplessly at Sapience*

  20. #45
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    Is the program still on?
    I am thinking of applying,where exactly do I apply?

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangaar View Post
    Is the program still on?
    I am thinking of applying,where exactly do I apply?
    The application info is in the 2nd post of the thread.
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  22. #47
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    Every when do you check the applications?
    I applied like 5-6 weeks ago and i didnt got any answer.Not even a decline of approval to get into the project.
    Or it goes like that? I mean if you get rejected you dont get any answer.A clarification would be welcomed tbh

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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangaar View Post
    Every when do you check the applications?
    I applied like 5-6 weeks ago and i didnt got any answer.Not even a decline of approval to get into the project.
    Or it goes like that? I mean if you get rejected you dont get any answer.A clarification would be welcomed tbh
    This post makes me realize that I have been lax in posting to this thread when invitations have gone out for this program. For this I apologize.

    We've actually had 4 rounds of invitations go out since October, the last one being on February 28th. All applications filed through that date have been processed. If you were accepted to the program, you will have received an email at the address that is registered to your LOTRO game account.

    Unfortunately we do not send emails to those we do not accept.

    Our next round of invites will be going out shortly. This will cover all applications filed since March 1st.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr View Post
    Our next round of invites will be going out shortly. This will cover all applications filed since March 1st.
    sorry, does that mean I need to apply again every few months?

    I don't mind it's just I think I sent in an app very early this year, got no response so assumed I didn't get in, but am still a willing possible participant. is my named/details stored if I'm needed or a different system?

    or should I just send an app after a few weeks after you say "invites just gone out" if I'm not needed?
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr View Post
    This post makes me realize that I have been lax in posting to this thread when invitations have gone out for this program. For this I apologize.

    We've actually had 4 rounds of invitations go out since October, the last one being on February 28th. All applications filed through that date have been processed. If you were accepted to the program, you will have received an email at the address that is registered to your LOTRO game account.

    Unfortunately we do not send emails to those we do not accept.

    Our next round of invites will be going out shortly. This will cover all applications filed since March 1st.
    Now I am thoroughly confused..I thought invitations only went out once every 6 months now, because of the whole "we want to kick everyone out every 6 months" thing. Has this changed again?
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