We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: end of Gollum?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    116

    end of Gollum?

    Has it been comfirmed in the books,that Gollum falls into the lava and dies?

    It might have been better if Gollum had actually fallen onto a ledge above the lava,but still loses the ring due to it falling into the lava. He climbs out of the volcano pit/cave,and returns to haunting deep and dark caverns.

    Did Smeagel/Gollum deserve the fate of death?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in a forest.
    Posts
    307
    At that point, death was only mercifull. Gollum/Smeágol would suffer much, MUCH more without the Ring.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e215000000015135/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    "And though all I see is darkness, I know that I will not flinch from my destiny."

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by womanlikesmmos View Post
    Did Smeagel/Gollum deserve the fate of death?


    "Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." Gandalf the Grey.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    116
    Was there ever even a tiny chance,Gollum/Smeagol could have mentally and psychologically healed enough to be once again,his former self before he found the one ring?

    If Tolken had allowed him to survive and live on without Sauron's Ring,would Smeagol have started becoming sane again?

    Could craziness and insanity be cured in Middle Earth?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    6,072
    Wouldnt he have aged dramatically in the same manner as bilbo? I dont recall this being addressed in the books, its been a long time since i read them though.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the cupboard under the stairs. (or is it under the stalls?)
    Posts
    3,153
    Quote Originally Posted by womanlikesmmos View Post
    Has it been comfirmed in the books,that Gollum falls into the lava and dies?
    Well, there is no report of anyone checking his pulse after he fell into the lava.

    Quote Originally Posted by womanlikesmmos View Post
    It might have been better if Gollum had actually fallen onto a ledge above the lava,but still loses the ring due to it falling into the lava.
    The mountain "blew up" shortly after the ring fell into the lava.
    The only reason that Frodo and Sam survived was deus ex machina (also known as Gandalf and the Great Eagles, which was a Blues band that often played in Gondor and parts north).


    Quote Originally Posted by womanlikesmmos View Post
    Did Smeagel/Gollum deserve the fate of death?
    Yes.
    "Just like Mary Shelly, Just like Frankenstein, Break your chains, And count your change, And try to walk the line"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    The Deserts of Arizona
    Posts
    18
    To the OP:

    Yes, Smeagol/Gollum fell into the lava with the One Ring with him. However, in the movies they showed a power-hungry Frodo and Gollum fighting over the Ring, then both falling over the edge, whereas in the book, Gollum was dancing with "joy" at getting the Ring back, then slipped and fell, while Frodo didn't offer any resistance after Gollum bit his finger off.

    As to whether Gollum deserved death, Wolfhelm answered it best by quoting Gandalf's words to Frodo. Notice that Gandalf was uneasy about making that judgment due to the fact he didn't feel that even he had the right to pronounce such a thing.

    As to whether Gollum had a chance at sanity after the Ring and Sauron perished, if he had the time, he might have had a chance. However, he was already old and had been given unnatural long life, so if the Ring were destroyed and he had survived, he would have perished relatively quickly.

    As to craziness and insanity being cured in Middle-Earth, it would be pretty hard. Frodo still felt the effects of his wounds after Sauron and the Ringwraiths perished. Gandalf himself said that there were some wounds that wouldn't heal. I think that the insanity and craziness induced by the Ring was one of those wounds.
    All men die; Few men ever really LIVE

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4
    Even if Gollum had not fallen into the lava, I have serious doubt he would escape the Orodruin(Mount Doom) alive.

    When Sauron was defeated the volcano erupted violently. Frodo and Sam wear nearly killed also, being surrounded by lava on a little island of rock, if Gollum was with them then it was not mentioned; and more than likely, the eagles would not have picked him up for rescue.
    keep your head down.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    378
    I don't think Gollum would have wanted to live without the Ring, even if he had survived. His last moments were ecstatic (before the painful end), he was overcome with the joy of regaining what he lived for.
    Mornawen "Molly" Bayberry
    Assistant Archivist of Bree, Landroval server
    Kinswoman of The Lonely Mountain Band

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    753
    Quote Originally Posted by ferdinanda View Post
    I don't think Gollum would have wanted to live without the Ring, even if he had survived. His last moments were ecstatic (before the painful end), he was overcome with the joy of regaining what he lived for.
    His end might not even have been painful. I don't know the mechanics of it but I'd imagine the logistics of it all could have allowed for a pretty instantaneous end.
    [CENTER][I][FONT=georgia]"Never laugh at live dragons"[/FONT][/I]
    [/CENTER]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,336
    Quote Originally Posted by Curandhras View Post
    His end might not even have been painful. I don't know the mechanics of it but I'd imagine the logistics of it all could have allowed for a pretty instantaneous end.
    He wouldn't fall into the lava so much as onto it (the stuff is molten rock, after all - it's really dense and viscous) so the fall would have killed him instantly. Unlike in the movie, however, he wasn't ecstatic - there was one last wail of "Precious" as he fell.

    Something else to consider - Gollum had said earlier that he thought that '...when Precious goes we'll die, yes, die into the dust' and so if true he was doomed anyway. He'd lived so long past his natural time that it's easy to imagine something horrible would have happened to him the second it was destroyed, as his unnatural existence was something that its power had created. Besides, he'd already become 'a lean, starved, haggard thing, all bones and tight-drawn sallow skin' and I doubt he could have gone on much longer - his desire for the Ring was the only thing that was keeping him going.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    344
    Even if he "fell onto a ledge" and dropped the ring he would have more then likely jumped after it.
    Co-Founder of TEAM F. Turined R9 champ. Mashedtaters R9 Reaver
    Perma-Retired Pre SoM- R9 Hnt. R8 Reaver

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Slin6 View Post
    Even if he "fell onto a ledge" and dropped the ring he would have more then likely jumped after it.
    Well said.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    753
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    He wouldn't fall into the lava so much as onto it (the stuff is molten rock, after all - it's really dense and viscous) so the fall would have killed him instantly.
    Almost certainly. I'd imagine he'd fall head first too, what with science and all that.

    It was "his time" though, definitely. Whether or not we personally think he "deserved" death or not is a different matter, it seems that Eru decided he did. Given Bilbo's rapid and uncomfortable aging, Gollum was probably right to say that without the Ring around it'd be the end for him anyway.
    [CENTER][I][FONT=georgia]"Never laugh at live dragons"[/FONT][/I]
    [/CENTER]

  15. #15
    The redemption of the corrupted is not something that is well-addressed or even often addressed at all in LotR, except in passing and tangentially... especially when dealing with corruption that is essentially coerced or externally driven--i.e. orcs.

    I think that Gandalf's statement (quoted above) is perhaps one of the most powerful statements in LotR--it potentially allows for redemption and it also allows for Providence (as we see with Gollum).

    While we might say or be inclined to believe that Gollum did, indeed, deserve death--my thought/question is--was his death a punishment or simply a necessity? I do not think so. In a certain sense, Gollum's death is a gift.. a reward, if you will, for the suffering that he underwent and the role that he ultimately played, even though he did not play it intentionally. It was a mercy--can you imagine Gollum's state of mind and being if he had somehow survived the destruction of the Ring, even if only briefly? I could not really imagine a worse torture than that.

    Just as Bilbo and Frodo were rewarded for their roles (being taken alive to West), so too was Gollum rewarded by a swift and merciful death--by, in the end, the only one capable of passing a true judgment--Iluvatar.

  16. #16
    Perhaps it's was Gollum's role to keep the Ring hidden for so long. To help Frodo do what he could not have done so on his own (even with Sam), finding a relatively 'safe' route into Mordor. Finally, to take away the impossible choice of Frodo, to willingly destroy the Ring. Also by seizing the Ring, he saved Frodo from a fate worse than death at the hands of it's real Master. Mission acomplished his reward was the moment of elation at regaining his precious and a solution to the constant anquish of the possession of same. This assumes more 'fate' than 'free will' but there are so many curious happenings that one could suspect the hand of a greater deity working some unknown plan. Maybe this is what Gandlaf was hinting at, no certain knowledge but suspicions that something bigger was happening that could only be revealed a step at a time.
    "You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81



 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload