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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyzau View Post
    I didn't quote your entire post I agree with the sentiments that you express. I'm a lifer who has never hesitated or blinked an eye at buying store cosmetics or class steeds before RoR. Why? Because they felt like an enhancement of my game experience. They felt like a luxurious addition that I permitted myself to enjoy spending money on. And truly, they were! And still are! Cosmetics are an addition to the basics of a very well designed cosmetic wardrobe system that I can use as a tool be utterly creative within my favorite game environment.

    For someone like me who has never hesitated to buy anything related to store cosmetics (in fact there aren't many store cosmetics that I don't own), it was a new and shocking experience to find out that the warsteed appearance system requires a lot of money to access the most basic of all outfitting features: colors. Colors are the main toolbox of any serious outfitter. Colors are the core, the heart of any wardrobe. It's not about "what" you are wearing, it's about "how well coordinated" it all is. Colors are not an "enhancement" or an "option". Colors are the center of what outfitting really is all about. Without reasonable access to all colors on all characters, the entire appearance system is rendered useless as a creative tool. The creative potential provided by the wardrobe and its infinite possibilities, has made it the huge success that it is today, and it has added a completely new dimension to the game, expressed by the many threads and blogs about cosmetics.

    Now truly I don't mind paying for my cosmetic customizations. Quite the contrary I will gladly pay, and I have always supported the idea that I'd rather see the lotro store sell cosmetics than stat tomes. I don't mind the prices on the hide types and will gladly purchase them when I can, because I consider them a cosmetic "enhancement". I don't mind the prices on the accessories and will probably buy one at some point because I consider them a cosmetic "option". But colors are the core. Colors are the essence of outfitting. They are not an enhancement, addition or an option, they are the nucleus. I think this fact has been very much misunderstood by the department responsible for the current pricing.

    Current color prices have been set so high that full access to all colors on all my characters is completely out of the question, and thus the creative potential of the warsteed appearance system has been nullified for me, with the result that I don't participate in it at all. I would be more than happy to pay for my color options the way it has been suggested over and over in this thread, but not like it currently is. As it is now, I don't even buy hides or accessories, because what's the point if I cannot dye them to match my outfits anyway.

    I'm curious to find out if Turbine is going to address the concerns at some point and change the pricing. No doubt the matter has caught their attention but it may be their policy to never go back on their price plans no matter what the consequences. It may be that they will wait a few months to see if customers will give in and buy those color packs anyway. This may or may not happen, but for me, in a few months time the novelty and desire to play around with customizing my warsteed will probably have worn off, leaving nothing but the bitter taste of grey.
    QFE

    The people at Turbine need to read this. And then read it again. Then, if they need to take some higher-up pencil pushing marketing monkey from Warner Brothers out back and show them the end of a hose, they need to do that, and then read this post again!

    I'll say it again: when one of the most popular outfitting blogs is not buying the colors, something is severely wrong with the pricing structure.

    At this point I personally think the best resolution would be to split the colors up into singles for up to 150TP a piece. This is a must if I am regularly going to be purchasing any colors. As they are now my only course of action is to not buy and wait until they go on sale and then see if I feel the colors are of enough value for the sale price. Making them account wide would be a much appreciated bonus.
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
    Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
    http://cruciblegaming.com

  2. #402

    You don't say...

    I thought this was too funny not to post here...!



    BELLEDHEL: Guardian | BREGOLSUL: Hunter | GLANGALAD: Loremaster | BETHBELEG: Runekeeper | LINBALAN: Minstrel
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  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Bragor_Sul View Post
    I thought this was too funny not to post here...!




    Ohh. It almost hurts. lol
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
    Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
    http://cruciblegaming.com

  4. #404
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    The text from 'A Fair Bargain' illustrates that someone in your quest department understands this principle. Perhaps they could go attempt to teach Marketing the same lesson!
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  5. #405
    Well said, Lyzau. I don't think anybody here could have nailed the majority of the sentiments here so precisely and eloquently.

    I've said it before, but I'll say it again. If we're spending our time and money to advertise stuff designed by Turbine, it's because those very products are reasonably affordable and can be used multiple times through the wardrobe and color options! I've seen very little out there on the cosmetic blogs (even the 'Show Us Your Favorite Cosmetic Outfit' forum thread) for war-steeds using the few free colors provided, and far fewer using the store-exclusive ones.

    I can't stress this enough. Lower the prices or make them more accessible and more of the bloggers and outfitters will buy colors. Those players will provide the pictures highlighting the customization system on the blogs and forums. People who see those outfitted steeds will go "Oooh!!! Shiny!!!" and more than likely purchase those featured colors. I should also mention that these colors will be seen outside of the steed dressing room in natural light! Far too often do the dyes look differently in the dressing room. As Lyzau said, colors are the core of all outfit forms!

    By helping us advertise, Turbine, you'll be reaping the benefits, quite possibly more than we will!

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    The text from 'A Fair Bargain' illustrates that someone in your quest department understands this principle. Perhaps they could go attempt to teach Marketing the same lesson!
    Bingo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathrien_Estelenlaer View Post
    Well said, Lyzau. I don't think anybody here could have nailed the majority of the sentiments here so precisely and eloquently.

    I've said it before, but I'll say it again. If we're spending our time and money to advertise stuff designed by Turbine, it's because those very products are reasonably affordable and can be used multiple times through the wardrobe and color options! I've seen very little out there on the cosmetic blogs (even the 'Show Us Your Favorite Cosmetic Outfit' forum thread) for war-steeds using the few free colors provided, and far fewer using the store-exclusive ones.

    I can't stress this enough. Lower the prices or make them more accessible and more of the bloggers and outfitters will buy colors. Those players will provide the pictures highlighting the customization system on the blogs and forums. People who see those outfitted steeds will go "Oooh!!! Shiny!!!" and more than likely purchase those featured colors. I should also mention that these colors will be seen outside of the steed dressing room in natural light! Far too often do the dyes look differently in the dressing room. As Lyzau said, colors are the core of all outfit forms!

    By helping us advertise, Turbine, you'll be reaping the benefits, quite possibly more than we will!
    The original idea for my "cosmetic items database" on WARSTEEDS was to have actual screens of the steed in each color and hide variation.

    Thankfully I was able to sort of do this with the preview ability, but there is absolutely no way I can get proper screen shots of the various combinations actually applied to the steed. I simply can't afford it.
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
    Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
    http://cruciblegaming.com

  7. #407
    Well said, Hymne. That is exactly the problem with the current color pack set up.

    I still have a little hope that the company will listen if sales are more anemic than whatever goal they've set.

    Just a little hope, though.
    [url=http://ponyloversanonymous.wordpress.com/]Pony Lovers Anonymous[/url]
    Matching outfits to the steeds of Middle-Earth
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520300000018379f/01004/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Elyara View Post
    Well said, Hymne. That is exactly the problem with the current color pack set up.

    I still have a little hope that the company will listen if sales are more anemic than whatever goal they've set.

    Just a little hope, though.
    "You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later."
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
    Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
    http://cruciblegaming.com

  9. #409
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    If you have the choice to purchase regular dyes in-game or in the actual Turbine store, you should have the same choice for war steed dyes. It would be an interesting addition to the scholar craft to see Eastemnet war steed dyes.

    I'm just literally shocked at what's happened to the war steeds. I was really looking forward to it, and then when I saw the prices I instantly lost interest. Sometimes I look at prices like, "Well, they're just trying to make money." But I really can't look at it that way for this situation. The game is free to play. If you work hard enough with grinding, you could essentially never have to spend real money on the game. But that's not logical and many people have come into the game as f2p and then spent money buying VIP, expansions, and TP cards. So, honestly, I'm not buying the whole "We need to make money" factor, especially when there's NO WAY Turbine is hurting financially. And another thing: when this expansion's "fully loaded" package is 20$ more than last year's, I can't understand why they decided jacking up Turbine store prices was a good idea.

    I'm not spending any TP on war steed dyes unless the prices are changed. It's just not going to happen. There are better ways to waste my hard-earned turbine points.
    Last edited by Sooule; Oct 31 2012 at 07:28 PM.

  10. You know, Hymne, I thought of donating a 5000 TP code to you so you can buy some steed colors.

    But then I thought twice... because if I would do that it would help you but no-one else. What is an outfitting-blog worth if all the other players can watch your wonderful designs but can't afford buying them for their own? It's like window-shopping and knowing your wallet is empty. It's no fun.

    Basically, if I would help you, I would frustrate everyone else. How is that helpful? And which stupid, unknowing, not understanding and probably not-caring Excel jockey within the pricing decision process made it so that it turned out this way?

    The best help for everyone is to not support this pricing scheme. Until they finally learned their lesson.






    And then you look at the Apple App Store and see every day anew: A small price times a bazillion people makes you how much money?

    And here? A huge price times a few people who complain all over the internet makes you just more people who complain and buy nothing.

    Wasn't the Lotro-Store supposed to make money? Must be more than enough already that they can afford to put some luxury-articles into their store which only a few can and will buy.

    Oh wait... what was the reason for the recent layoffs again?
    Last edited by Glenwin; Nov 01 2012 at 04:50 AM.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenwin View Post
    You know, Hymne, I thought of donating a 5000 TP code to you so you can buy some steed colors.
    But then I thought twice... because if I would do that it would help you but no-one else. What is an outfitting-blog worth if all the other players can watch your wonderful designs but can't afford buying them for their own? It's like window-shopping and knowing your wallet is empty. It's no fun.
    Basically, if I would help you, I would frustrate everyone else. How is that helpful? And which stupid, unknowing, not understanding and probably not-caring Excel jockey within the pricing decision process made it so that it turned out this way?
    The best help for everyone is to not support this pricing scheme. Until they finally learned their lesson.
    Awww that's very sweet!
    And it's not that I couldn't afford to buy a few steed colors, it's that I am unwilling to invest more than the price of the Legendary RoR edition to give only one of my characters access to all colors. So I'm not buying, even if I technically could afford it (and indeed would spend that money if it were account wide or if I could pick my own colours).

    And the problem regarding the blog bothers me as well. I want my blog to be an inspiration, not a shopping window to drool over.
    COSMETIC LOTRO

    a blog about Middle-earth outfits

  12. #412
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    The dye pack prices are obscene as is "per character". If they were account wide it would be tolerable.

  13. #413
    I was very tempted to buy the Bone armor for my war-steed, until I calculated that changing the tack color from that awful purple, along with the two hide colors I want (to get a black steed with white main and tail; of course they're in separate packs) would run me around 2,500 TP. No thanks. Since we've had no response at all from a blue name, aside from the earlier post, I'm going to assume that the prices aren't changing. I guess the most we can do is refuse to pay full price and only buy when they're on sale.

  14. #414
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    Wow, 11 pages, still going, and all but the occasional troll agreeing with this, and yet Turbine still chooses not to respond. I am sure that the dev's are reading this, and maybe possibly considering their options on this, but I wish they would respond. At least to let us know that they hear us, and they are looking into it. I made sure with the Massivly interview that at least a few key people at Turbine are aware that people are not happy about this. I am just wondering who I could contact at Turbine and how to contact them to actually speak to someone who has the power to answer questions about this. I am half tempted to call them and see if maybe I can get someone on the phone. Maybe if we flood the call center someone might get answers? Here's the phone number information for calling them (though they are closing early today at 4 EST.)

    For Account Management Phone Support please call 855-WBGAMES or 781-407-4020.

    English Support is available at the following times:

    Monday - Friday: 10:00 AM to 9:00 PM Eastern
    Saturday - Sunday: 12:00 Noon to 9:00 PM Eastern

    If anyone does call them and gets answers, please post them here. Thanks!
    Lethareth, the Celebratory

  15. #415
    Quoting a post from another thread, as I thought it would bring some perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    595
    Shades of Grey Mount Colour Pack
    + 395
    Dappled Hide
    +1995
    Steed of the Rune-Keeper
    + 595
    Shades of Blue Tack Colour Pack
    +1995
    Steed of the Lore-Master
    +1995
    Steed of the Minstrel
    + 395
    Braided Flower Tail
    + 395
    Accessory of the Northstar
    =8360
    TPs! Or roughly $80 USD!!!! (estimates, not online atm but pretty sure those are the costs)






    I'm glad that you're happy with you're mount, don't get me wrong; I just want Turbine to realize that these prices are insanely high. $80 to get a VIRTUAL horse that you like just seems a bit much to me...
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
    Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
    http://cruciblegaming.com

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigram View Post
    Quoting a post from another thread, as I thought it would bring some perspective.
    I'll never agree that the prices are reasonable, but those numbers don't factor into this conversation at all... You get 3 mounts, 2 color packs, and 3 cosmetics while the OP of what you linked worded it as all necesary to customize. You don't need 3 different $25.00 mounts to customize.

    It would be much easier to simply focus on the issue... 595 for a single color pack. Everything else just waters it down.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by hucklebarry View Post
    I'll never agree that the prices are reasonable, but those numbers don't factor into this conversation at all... You get 3 mounts, 2 color packs, and 3 cosmetics while the OP of what you linked worded it as all necesary to customize. You don't need 3 different $25.00 mounts to customize.

    It would be much easier to simply focus on the issue... 595 for a single color pack. Everything else just waters it down.
    Thanks, I understand but I also disagree. Color Pack prices are at the core of the issue but the bigger picture is important as well.
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
    Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
    http://cruciblegaming.com

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigram View Post
    Thanks, I understand but I also disagree. Color Pack prices are at the core of the issue but the bigger picture is important as well.
    Throwing 3 store exclusive mounts into a quote and claiming dyes cost $80.00 isn't showing the bigger picture.

    But, disagreement is allowed/encouraged... but there is also a historical appreciation for store exclusive mounts. They are everywhere in game. There are many threads where people defend the ability to buy them AND their current price as fluff items. If you think dividing the comments into sub-groups in people for/against the dye AND people for/against mount prices (who also may be for/against the dye)... you are certainly free to do so... But I suspect it will have the opposite affect you are anticipating.

    The more aggressive term is thread hijacking, even though there is a slight relation overall. The thread title and OP content is about the color pack. Trying to change directions will result in splintered opinions and a locked thread as the discussion goes off course. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else on this forum

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by hucklebarry View Post
    Throwing 3 store exclusive mounts into a quote and claiming dyes cost $80.00 isn't showing the bigger picture.

    But, disagreement is allowed/encouraged... but there is also a historical appreciation for store exclusive mounts. They are everywhere in game. There are many threads where people defend the ability to buy them AND their current price as fluff items. If you think dividing the comments into sub-groups in people for/against the dye AND people for/against mount prices (who also may be for/against the dye)... you are certainly free to do so... But I suspect it will have the opposite affect you are anticipating.

    The more aggressive term is thread hijacking, even though there is a slight relation overall. The thread title and OP content is about the color pack. Trying to change directions will result in splintered opinions and a locked thread as the discussion goes off course. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else on this forum
    The beauty of discussion! I think what I quoted applies. I'm not trying to change direction - just add some emphasis on the already high costs of obtaining cosmetics. Adding extremely high priced COLORS is insult to injury and hampering the very ability to be creative.
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
    Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
    http://cruciblegaming.com

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigram View Post
    The beauty of discussion! I think what I quoted applies. I'm not trying to change direction - just add some emphasis on the already high costs of obtaining cosmetics. Adding extremely high priced COLORS is insult to injury and hampering the very ability to be creative.
    Agreed! The bigger picture IS the ridiculous prices in the Turbine store. Even though this is about the color packs, the store items are still over priced. 1995 TP for the occasional exclusive steed is no big deal but the smaller stuff? I don't understand the prices for those. Big things like exclusive mounts, quest packs, even shared storage and auction house slots make sense to be upped in price because of what they are. But things like colors, skins, and cosmetics? They really have no business being above 300 TP at the most.

    LOTRO is continuously hindering players' ability to be creative and its frustrating a lot of people into contemplation of leaving the game because its just too expensive!

  21. #421
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    I've been playing ever since F2P came out and this is just outrageous...
    I'm willing to spend some money on stuff and I don't consider myself one to complain :/
    But these prices are just RIDICULOUS! I agree with most of what's been said on this forum and I hope that Turbine sees the mistake that they are making. Unfortunately, this has drained much of my former enthusiasm for RoR. I really looked forward to riding around on a customizable war-steed which was supposed to be "Customizable in the way avatars are." And that would have "Prominent feathering on their hooves." -Ror War-steeds dev diary. I have seen neither of these with all the restrictions and money grubbing foolishness.

    Honestly, I've all but stopped playing the game after the first few days of riding around. I feel cheated, as many players do, and to play the game makes me resent Turbine even more. Shame on you Turbine Until this gets fixed, consider me no longer one of your "income sources". I wont spend another red cent on ANYTHING you try to sell me...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e215000000004329/signature.png]Dagthire[/charsig]

  22. #422
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    Turbine is playing the waiting game...

    It seems Turbine is determined to wait this out, in the hope that we will just give up and the issue will go away. My PM to Sapience remains unanswered, presumably because the higher-ups have told him there is no movement on the prices, but that doesn't mean we should stop the pressure here - keep posting and supporting this petition, and make sure you don't buy the dyes in game while they are at such an extortionate price, or things will never change.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  23. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist View Post
    It seems Turbine is determined to wait this out, in the hope that we will just give up and the issue will go away. My PM to Sapience remains unanswered, presumably because the higher-ups have told him there is no movement on the prices, but that doesn't mean we should stop the pressure here - keep posting and supporting this petition, and make sure you don't buy the dyes in game while they are at such an extortionate price, or things will never change.
    I've no plans to quit complaining about it.
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
    Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
    http://cruciblegaming.com

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sooule View Post
    I can't understand why they decided jacking up Turbine store prices was a good idea.
    If you watch this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677OoDGU0ig (especially the 3 minute to 3:30 mark), you'll understand the attitude behind the price increases. Fernando Paiz pretty much says that no matter what goes into the store, the players will get past the complaints and still stay with the game because they love it so much.

    Don't give in on this. The buyer has a lot of power over what a company can and will do. Exercise that power.
    [COLOR="#6666ff"][FONT=Century Gothic]To many people, free will is a license to rebel not against what is unjust or hard in life but against what is best for them and true.[/FONT][/COLOR]

  25. #425

    Don't give in on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abiyah View Post
    If you watch this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677OoDGU0ig (especially the 3 minute to 3:30 mark), you'll understand the attitude behind the price increases. Fernando Paiz pretty much says that no matter what goes into the store, the players will get past the complaints and still stay with the game because they love it so much.

    Don't give in on this. The buyer has a lot of power over what a company can and will do. Exercise that power.

    I don't think Mr Paiz is advocating price gouging here. He's talking about 'free to play' and the presence of items of advantage in the store. This is the bone of contention he refers to @3:30 when he's saying everyone was up in arms and threatening to leave the game (not LOTRO) "but they didn't because they enjoy the game experience."

    His final line in the vid is:
    "Our job as game designers is to make games that work well, that are fun and that are appropriately monetizing some of this stuff while still leaving room for player accomplishment, skill and rewards."

    That said, a good vid and I totally agree with you.
    The dye prices are too high and need to be account wide.
    There will be no giving in.

    BELLEDHEL: Guardian | BREGOLSUL: Hunter | GLANGALAD: Loremaster | BETHBELEG: Runekeeper | LINBALAN: Minstrel
    DOLENTUR: Burglar

    MENELDOR : LANDROVAL : LAURELIN

    Last edited by Bragor_Sul; Nov 03 2012 at 01:49 AM. Reason: spelling correction

 

 
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