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  1. #351
    I really think you guys need to just ignore Nick, anyone who starts their arguments with "LOL YOU'RE FUNNY" and other such condescending mannerisms is clearly trolling you.

    The fact of the matter is that there is clearly a shared disappointment from a lot of the community (and just because some people don't voice their opinions here doesn't mean they are happy). War Steeds may be a new feature but the cosmetic system is NOT. The prices are considered unreasonable by many, and those who purchased the expansion have every right to challenge it. IF you're happy to pay the current prices then good for you, what do you have to lose if they take on board our advice and lower the prices in time?

    Currently the dye packs are out of reach for a lot of players as you can clearly see by the number of plain grey horses in game, it is in Turbine's best interest to listen to their customers and sometimes reducing prices increases profits. Why do you think we have sales? A more accessible product brings more customers. Even breaking it up into smaller payments... sure people might end up buying 4 dyes anyway, but over the course of a certain period, without having to pay such a hefty amount in one go and also giving them the power to chose a selection of colours instead of a selection of shades.

    Flat out ignoring customer concerns does not help either party, coming to a more reasonable agreement shows us we are not being taken for a ride and makes us more willing to hand over hard earned money to a respectable merchant.

    Just because it's fluff doesn't justify the price tag, something so basic with no alternative ways of acquiring it should not cost more than a VIP is rewarded in a month.

    I still can't understand why we didn't get a few basic colours for free initially, not even Sorrel :P

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickStern View Post
    How on earth could you not expect it?
    Why wouldnt we expect them to sell them exactly like they do the regular ones? With in-game equivalents STILL acquirable.

    What gets to me is there is only the DEFAULT hide/tail color for free. This is not just a matter of 'some colors' for sale, at this point it's 'all colors require additional purchase'.

    Especially, with the fact that we dont get the color for our premium war-steeds purchased, when its part of the description for the steed at the time of purchase.
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  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    What gets to me is there is only the DEFAULT hide/tail color for free. This is not just a matter of 'some colors' for sale, at this point it's 'all colors require additional purchase'.

    Especially, with the fact that we dont get the color for our premium war-steeds purchased, when its part of the description for the steed at the time of purchase.
    Both of these points are very agreeable.

    Give us two color options and the colors for the purchased steeds... then sell the rest. That sounds fair.

    unfortunately, I'm still seeing lots of folks buying the colors. I have to back Turbine on this... if people are willing to pay, don't lower the price.

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radbug
    "*Some coat/tack colors and coat styles may require additional purchase"
    This implies that we would get some starter coat colors for 'free' with the purchase of the expansion to me. That's the whole reason I expected we would to begin with, but we didn't.

    "Most tack colors and coat styles will require additional purchase. All coat colors will require additional purchase" is more like it. But honestly, I don't even care that we have to buy them in the store, as long as the price doesn't force me to give up food for the week. And no, that isn't an exaggeration. I live alone in an apartment and make just over $450 a week while attending college. My dad helps pay for my rent (so nice of him, I wish he didn't though), and I have other bills to pay. The search for a roommate is well underway, but everyone I've talked to about it so far have been slobs or junkies... I don't want a slob for a roomie, nor a junkie..
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  5. #355
    FEEDBACK FOR LOTRO STORE CONSIDERATION:

    I bought the Legendary pre-sale. $70 USD, that seemed like a lot to me, but I love this game, so I did it. Rohan is breathtaking! I am still finding myself dropping everything to stare at the sunset each time! I love the game mechanics of the warsteed, really great job, and thank you! I have had little to no issue with gameplay, storyline, or anything. My ONLY complaint (and it's rare that I only have one, as I can be quite picky) is the ADDITIONAL price of my warsteed appearance. I find this greedy tactic somewhat insulting.

    Suggestions (opinion):
    - let us use player crafted dye on warsteed cosmetics.
    - let us choose one color at a time for warsteed colors (the pack "variety" choices are unacceptable).
    - let us have a choice to buy for one character or account-wide.
    - consider incorporating more of the horse styles we already had, not just the class-horses, but the festival and rep-horses too.
    - award a few extra free options for people that bought expensive pre-sales....

    I will NOT be purchasing warsteed cosmetics from the store unless the methods of sale are re-evaluated and adjusted to a more appropriate manner. Optimistically, I can't wait till you fix this issue (that SO many players seem to agree is an issue), because I am STILL excited about my warsteed appearance, I just consider the pricing and delivery options a "pending issue" waiting to be fixed. I can be quite patient. I hope you are able to find my feedback helpful.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b000000085ea3/01000/signature.png]Darahir[/charsig]

  6. #356
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    My 2 cents

    I have to agree. I wanted to have unique characteristics for my horse so I did buy a hide and a color, but I don't think I'll be able to buy any more for a long time at the current prices.
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  7. #357
    /signed

    I was enjoying ROR, but I am very disappointed in the dye prices. It may be fluff to some, but fluff adds to my enjoyment and keeps me playing. I feel these prices are more than excessive. I don't mind paying for store items, but there is a limit, and Turbine has hit it with these.

    As the honeymoon effect wears off with mounted combat, I'm liking my plain 'Steed of the Night' less and less and growing more resentful of Turbine's greed. Do I really want to keep supporting this? Right now, I leaning towards no... Fortunately, I have other games I play. I've bought every expansion, but this may well be my last.

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Why wouldnt we expect them to sell them exactly like they do the regular ones? With in-game equivalents STILL acquirable.

    What gets to me is there is only the DEFAULT hide/tail color for free. This is not just a matter of 'some colors' for sale, at this point it's 'all colors require additional purchase'.

    Especially, with the fact that we dont get the color for our premium war-steeds purchased, when its part of the description for the steed at the time of purchase.
    Well because expecting = assuming based on facts not in evidence.
    Because this is not a normal Dye for cosmetic clothing it is a new war steed skin color.
    Because everything gets monitized since F2P.

    The description does not say you get matching horse color from a premium mount purchase.

    It says..
    •Unlock this Premium Mount Bundle to get the travel mount and the matching War-steed Appearance!

    I would presume that refers to the equipment Barding and Tack not the color of the mount.
    that makes it a differant mount not just movingyour equipment from one mount to another
    as would be normal for a rider with multiple mounts.

  9. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by NickStern View Post

    It says..
    •Unlock this Premium Mount Bundle to get the travel mount and the matching War-steed Appearance!

    I would presume that refers to the equipment Barding and Tack not the color of the mount.
    that makes it a differant mount not just movingyour equipment from one mount to another
    as would be normal for a rider with multiple mounts.
    I would presume that since the APPEARANCE tab in the Mounted Combat panel includes the ability to change the hide and hide color, that "Matching War-steed APPEARANCE" includes hide and color...

    Turbine used said "matching War-steed appearance" as a marketing tactic to sell class steeds and the steed of the night. It really isn't too much to ask that we actually be able to match our warsteed to the class steed, as advertised.
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
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  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigram View Post
    I would presume that since the APPEARANCE tab in the Mounted Combat panel includes the ability to change the hide and hide color, that "Matching War-steed APPEARANCE" includes hide and color...

    Turbine used said "matching War-steed appearance" as a marketing tactic to sell class steeds and the steed of the night. It really isn't too much to ask that we actually be able to match our warsteed to the class steed, as advertised.
    of course there is a tab to change hide and hide color.
    If there was not they could not sell them in store.
    That does not prove they intended to include premium mount colors free.
    I do not presume that it does since the small print the legaleze clearly states some matching colors will require additional purchase.

    Seems clear to me when one assumse caveat emptor...

    No business gives things away for free nothing a business does is with out gain to them.
    The sonner people understand that the better att that point when you expect the worst
    do the research and find the truth you will not be dissapointed in the end.

  11. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by NickStern View Post
    The description does not say you get matching horse color from a premium mount purchase.

    It says..
    •Unlock this Premium Mount Bundle to get the travel mount and the matching War-steed Appearance!

    I would presume that refers to the equipment Barding and Tack not the color of the mount.
    It says we get the matching War-steed Appearance. That should mean we get the appearance of the mount as a war-steed. The steed is the horse. It's the horse's appearance we were promised, not just its tack.


    Quote Originally Posted by NickStern View Post
    that makes it a differant mount not just moving your equipment from one mount to another
    as would be normal for a rider with multiple mounts.
    Yes, it's a different mount, which is what we bought with that 1995 TP.

  12. #362
    I agree the prices are way too high. I had money I'd been thinking to spend on the games I play but seeing the prices of the warsteed cosmetics I couldn't justify that and ended up spending all of it on gw2 instead (as I still trust their way of handling store).
    I think it's a poor strategy for turbine to use since while they may sell a few items at that price they also lose the faith of many customers. If you push your customers a bit further every single time, even the most patient are sooner or later going to bail.

    In cases like this it's not always a matter of whether the customers have the money but rather if they feel the money is well spent. If not then it's not only about them not buying, they will also be less likely to buy other things from the same company since the trust is lost and will advice others against playing the game as well.
    Last edited by Dawnsinger; Oct 26 2012 at 05:44 PM.
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  13. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsinger View Post
    I agree the prices are way too high. I had money I'd been thinking to spend on the games I play but seeing the prices of the warsteed cosmetics I couldn't justify that and ended up spending all of it on gw2 instead (as I still trust their way of handling store).
    I think it's a poor strategy for turbine to use since while they may sell a few items at that price they also lose the faith of many customers. If you push your customers a bit further every single time, even the most patient are sooner or later going to bail.

    In cases like this it's not always a matter of whether the customers have the money but rather if they feel the money is well spent. If not then it's not only about them not buying, they will also be less likely to buy other things from the same company since the trust is lost and will advice others against playing the game as well.
    Re: the bolded part..

    That right there is exactly the issue. Turbine points are just like money, they have value and with that, the product has to have enough value to match the asking price.

    Even right now, I have FREE Turbine Points that I get on a monthly basis. Enough to cover about half of what I want from the store. However, they are asking me to spend 595 Turbine points for 1 color I will use and three I will not. That to me is wasting 446 Turbine points that I could better use on something else of more value.

    I'm still chaffed that I have to buy a color pack to make my Steed of the Hunter tack actually look like the Steed of the Hunter - and I am hearing even then, the color is not quite the same.
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
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  14. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by NickStern View Post
    of course there is a tab to change hide and hide color.
    If there was not they could not sell them in store.
    That does not prove they intended to include premium mount colors free.
    I do not presume that it does since the small print the legaleze clearly states some matching colors will require additional purchase.

    Seems clear to me when one assumse caveat emptor...

    No business gives things away for free nothing a business does is with out gain to them.
    The sonner people understand that the better att that point when you expect the worst
    do the research and find the truth you will not be dissapointed in the end.
    It doesn't disprove it either.

    The fact of the matter is that when someone makes a statement saying "you will receive a matching appearance", people are going to expect a matching appearance, and they are going to expect that 'appearance' is all encompassing.


    This page, touting a matching appearance as a selling point for the Steed of the Hunter has NO fine print on it stating it may require an additional purchase. http://www.lotro.com/lotrostoresale/...-steeds#hunter

    On top of that, taking hide out of the equation and just looking at the tack: buying the gear color pack that contains the colors closest to what is on the Steed of the Hunter does not get you tack for your warsteed that matches the tack on the Steed of the Hunter, none of the greens are a match.

    Your argument would make more sense if they didn't tout it as "matching". If we want to discuss it on the merits of vagueness and interpretation, than neither of us can assume we're correct until Turbine weighs in on that specific matter.
    Helm's Deep Devamp killed my long time toons. Currently bouncing around between post-HD newbie alts (a warden and champ) and other games.
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  15. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niwashi View Post
    It says we get the matching War-steed Appearance. That should mean we get the appearance of the mount as a war-steed. The steed is the horse. It's the horse's appearance we were promised, not just its tack.



    Yes, it's a different mount, which is what we bought with that 1995 TP.
    Not disagreeing with that MY POINT was however clearly that that was an assumption.

    They Did not state it that way.

    A color change makes it a differant mount not a mount of similar appearance.

    You payed 1995 TP for a standard premium mount not another
    war steed mount there is a huge differance in stats.

    All I am saying is presume the worst where large companies and profit are concerned
    that leads to much less disapointment.

    when they do happen to give something free or at reduced cost it is a bonus and you
    are happier then you would have been otherwise.

  16. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigram View Post

    Your argument would make more sense if they didn't tout it as "matching". If we want to discuss it on the merits of vagueness and interpretation, than neither of us can assume we're correct until Turbine weighs in on that specific matter.
    I am not in disagreement that Most will asuume.
    i am simply saying that unless it is clearly spelled out,
    especially with Turbines History, you are much safer to
    believe otherwise.

    Yes it is up to Turbine/WB to decide on interpetation
    I just always assume they will do so in thier favour.

  17. #367
    Can we please be polite to each other, stop both the trolling and insult slinging, and return to a civilized discussion? Pretty please?

  18. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathrien_Estelenlaer View Post
    Can we please be polite to each other, stop both the trolling and insult slinging, and return to a civilized discussion? Pretty please?
    ^This. Also, going back on topic would be nice.

    As the shiny newness of RoR fades for me, I'm finding that I'm less and less interested in the mount customization. My horse will stay it's dapper grey color until the prices fall, and I have patience enough for that.

  19. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    And what about the fact that dyes since their production WERE always producible and acquirable in-game?

    Did anyone *PRIOR TO BETA* really expect them to sell them to the exclusion of an in-game production method after having been a key part of the cosmetic systems which has been one of lotro's best features for YEARS?
    Am I the only one who finds the concept of dyeing a horse to be a little silly?

    Tack, sure. . .I feel that dyes for that should be craftable in-game. In fact, I don't see much reason, other than the need for adding graphical support for each of the many color/item combinations, why horse tack should require dyes that are different from those available for armour & clothing. Tradable, but consumed on use. (Yeah, I realize that such notion is completely academic at this point.)

    I'm often at odds with the game when design decisions stray from reality. Like, how come I can be a Master Eastemnet Metalsmith, but still need to pay an NPC to hammer out dents in my helm? Or, how come my pocket isn't big enough for more than one Trinket of Destiny, yet it can hold a meter-long Auroch's Horn of Fate? [Trying hard to resist the "or are you just happy to see me?" joke.] Or the idea that RKs can cast spells by madly chiseling strings of heiroglyphs into stone in the middle of a battle. It just spoils the verisimilitude. (To be honest, though, I do greatly appreciate that my backpack can apparently hold over 60 metric tons of raw warg pelts [figuring about 7Kg each with ninety 100-count stacks] without even slowing me down.)

    But dyeing the hide of a horse just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It's not like repainting an automobile, and I'm pretty sure that Tolkien never put zippers on them.

    You can go to a barber in-game to change your hair style and color, but can't change your scars, eye color, or breast size that way, so why should one expect to be able to re-skin a horse without paying the Store for the change? That's what one must do in order to re-name a toon. I would expect retooling a mount to be similar. Maybe they consider it to be kinda like "re-forging" (gaw! I hate the game's overuse of that concept) a legendary item?

    Now, I don't have a warsteed, so my understanding of the options for customizing them is far from complete (although, I have tried to figure out what I can from this thread and others).

    What would have made sense to me is if there were 2-4 base color combinations available for selection when acquiring the mount. The selection should be permanent. If you then want to change it, you should expect to pay mightily for the replacement (or, perhaps, to acquire a replacement appearance skin as a drop or quest reward). In any case, it shouldn't be something that you can just hang onto a collection of and swap them around at will.

    Mounts are character-bound. It would only make sense that the color options acquired for them, once applied, would be too. Same with dyes for tack. I think Turbine threw players a pretty big bone there by making them reuseable at all, but a lot of folks here are calling for making them account-wide to justify the price. I think widening their flexibility in that manner is really the wrong way to go (especially since it would only benefit those who have multiple toons with warsteeds and want the same appearance for each).

    Maybe it would be better now if Turbine could come up with a budget-priced, one-use, customizable, warsteed appearance kit that would offer a variety of choices for hide color, hide pattern, and mane & tail color (and perhaps include a choice of one reusable dye for gear). You buy the kit, right-click on it in your inventory to bring up a preview window, make your choices, and hit "apply": your horse is repatterned and all that's left of your kit (which was consumed on apply) is the reuseable bucket of dye for your horse gear. I kinda suspect, though, that the current method for using an item or skill might not allow for an in-game pop-up choice window, so a single-priced kit might not be feasible, as the customization selections would have to be done prior to Store checkout.

    Alternatively, maybe they could add a completely new section ("Body Shop"? "Steed Style Salon"? "Mount Makeover Market"?) to the Store with an interface for selecting the customizations. That way, it would also be pretty easy for them to offer "premium" colors or patterns at an extra cost.

    "You want to change your warsteed's color? Make your own combinatation from any of 12 basic hide colors & patterns and 12 basic mane/tail styles & colors for just 350TP (note: some combinations not available). Premium colors starting at 750TP. Or, for those who don't care about LoTR and who for some reason still think that looking distractingly ridiculous will somehow earn them the respect and admiration of their fellow players: 1500TP for the limited-edition Leopard-spotted, Red Plaid, or Blue Shag skins. This month's special: add the 'Green Flaming Mane & Tail of the West' for only 1200TP. Be sure to see the 'Warsteed Tack' category in the Store menu to purchase matching accessories."

  20. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Halgoreth View Post
    ...

    But dyeing the hide of a horse just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It's not like repainting an automobile, and I'm pretty sure that Tolkien never put zippers on them.

    ...

    Mounts are character-bound. It would only make sense that the color options acquired for them, once applied, would be too. Same with dyes for tack. I think Turbine threw players a pretty big bone there by making them reuseable at all, but a lot of folks here are calling for making them account-wide to justify the price. I think widening their flexibility in that manner is really the wrong way to go (especially since it would only benefit those who have multiple toons with warsteeds and want the same appearance for each).
    They aren't really horse dyes, that just seems to be the verbiage folks are using because of being accustomed to things already in the game.

    You get dyes for gear and tack. You get different hides and hide colors to use for the horse itself. The re-usable thing is worthless to a lot of us. If I buy color pack five, all I want is copper. I guess I could re-use it.. Every day go in and reselect the copper color I want? That selling point is totally worthless to me. QuarterMasterL's justification that it is reusable has no value to me.
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  21. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by NickStern View Post
    I am not in disagreement that Most will asuume. i am simply saying that unless it is clearly spelled out, especially with Turbines History, you are much safer to believe otherwise.
    The point is that it IS explicitly spelled out. Turbine themselves state (emphasis added): "Unlock this Premium Mount Bundle to get the travel mount and the matching War-steed Appearance!" However, in direct contradiction to that promise, players who have bought these don't get a matching appearance for their war-steeds at all. They do get a reasonably good match for the steed's tack (though apparently even that doesn't get the colors quite right in some cases), but not for the steed itself, and it's the steed's appearance that Turbine promised would match.

    In fact, though I don't think it would be any better, it would at least be somewhat more defensible based on a possible reading of the claim if it had been implemented the other way around, with the only thing we got being the steed's coloration (and hide patterning where applicable). After all, the claim doesn't explicitly mention matching tack, just a matching steed. That still wouldn't work, because for the travel mount that this appearance is supposed to be matching, those are inseparable. The only way to match an inseparable combination of horse and tack is to provide all parts of it. But there is most certainly no excuse for trying to argue that the steed's appearance is not part of the steed's appearance.

  22. #372

    It may be fluff to some, but fluff adds to my enjoyment and keeps me playing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kylani View Post
    /signed

    I was enjoying ROR, but I am very disappointed in the dye prices. It may be fluff to some, but fluff adds to my enjoyment and keeps me playing. I feel these prices are more than excessive. I don't mind paying for store items, but there is a limit, and Turbine has hit it with these.

    As the honeymoon effect wears off with mounted combat, I'm liking my plain 'Steed of the Night' less and less and growing more resentful of Turbine's greed. Do I really want to keep supporting this? Right now, I leaning towards no... Fortunately, I have other games I play. I've bought every expansion, but this may well be my last.
    +rep added

  23. #373
    Since it would be very difficult for Turbine to change the price of the current bundles (imagine the uproar from people who already bought them), this is what I feel would be the most reasonable solution..

    - leave the colour bundles in store unchanged.
    - introduce 1 time consumable dyes for hides 150-250TP each.
    - introduce 1 time consumable dyes for tack around 25-50 TP each.
    - grant permenant single colours to people who purchased store exclusive mounts (INCLUDING YHE APPROPRIATE HIDE).
    - make consumable dyes craftable via scholars guild with enough of a cooldown so that the store options don't become obselete.
    - warband drops. Rare.

    No?

  24. #374
    I guess I'm lucky my first (and thus far only) Premium Steed was a Steed of the Champion. It's already grey. I didn't even know about the hide colors not being part of the package til I saw it mentioned here.

    Even less reason for me to ever buy another, or purchase any warsteed cosmetics.
    The navigation throughout the LotRO site is horrible. You can quote me on that.
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  25. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by paperslug View Post
    Since it would be very difficult for Turbine to change the price of the current bundles (imagine the uproar from people who already bought them), this is what I feel would be the most reasonable solution..

    - leave the colour bundles in store unchanged.
    - introduce 1 time consumable dyes for hides 150-250TP each.
    - introduce 1 time consumable dyes for tack around 25-50 TP each.
    - grant permenant single colours to people who purchased store exclusive mounts (INCLUDING YHE APPROPRIATE HIDE).
    - make consumable dyes craftable via scholars guild with enough of a cooldown so that the store options don't become obselete.
    - warband drops. Rare.

    No?
    I considered some of the ideas in here when writing out my original ideas of how Turbine could change the prices - but the one time consumables prices which you suggested, I would argue remain too high. One time consumables, I think, are not the way to go with warsteed hide/hair colours, because I do not think that it would be cost effective - and people would be even more irritated if they used a colour, then changed to another, and then had to buy the old one back - with dyes for clothes we can simply buy/find a multiple of the item we wish to dye and then dye that separately, whereas with warsteeds that is not possible.

    Unfortunately, though I would LOVE the dyes to be craftable, I don't think that Turbine would accept that even with a weekly cooldown because people would simply wait for them rather than pay in the store.

    With the warband drops, I agree wholeheartedly - yes, make them rare, but the difference from the craftable dyes is that this is based on chance, and so therefore people may get frustrated at not getting one in their warband reward box, and so buy them from the store, yet we still have a chance of getting them if we are patient (win/win for Turbine/players).

    My suggestion, which would hopefully pacify players that have already bought the dyes, would be to make the purchases account wide (giving us value for the high prices, and enabling those who have bought at the prices to customize their alts effectively for free), and also dividing the dye packs up into singular colours. Both these ideas can work without too much hassle in terms of those who have already paid, because if you have paid for the full pack, you retain all four colours (that can remain an option), whereas for 100TP (ish) those who have not bought anything can grab the individual dyes.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Telperon, Completionist LM -
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Ex-Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

 

 
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