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  1. #2401
    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    I knew you will bring out creep skills. Im not gonna compare hips, sprint or burrow.. this skills do nothing. Freeps with cooldowns they have now will both regen and get thier skills ready again when warg or spider comes back. So if you forced him once to use one of them, you should do it again.

    Evade, lets do some comparison:

    My BA has 15% base avoidance + 50% evade
    A good freep now reaches 25% reduction easily, probably 30% with good gear with finesse

    A champ should have capped parry easily and some 5-10% from evade which should be 40-45% with partial effects
    r10 creep gets 15% reduction with finesse

    Creep avoidance 40%
    Freep avoidance 30%

    BA has a gap of 10s without any avoidance cuz of high finesse ratings these days, where a smart champ will us CBR, CB and CD with full capacity
    Freep just has to make sure to face the target

    This is how good evade is. Evade is good for hunters though. -75% ranged evade
    Wrath=fight on. Champ-reaver fight shouldn't take more then a minute -minute and half. Reaver doesnt have bracing attack and renewal strikes and a killing spree will prevent dying from bleeds after kill.


    Now when you know that, i can just say... Learn to play!

    Champions Duel skill increases its potency every 3 seconds. at start its -10% slow -5%outgoing dmg on enemy and +3% melee dmg, all buffs increase over time to -50% slow, -25% outgoing dmg and +30%melee dmg. Skill is tactical so evade doesnt work. With full fervour +25%, CD +30% and CB +15% you have +70% dmg. You an decrease your attack speed by 25% as well i think.

    If you have any question about champ just ask XD

    EDIT: I already posted whats new in 12.1. Scroll up or go page or two behind and you will see it.
    Wrath: 35sec cd

    Evade: 40sec cd

    Hips: 1.30sec cd

    Fight on: 3min cd (I m not able to use it even on spars >2mins cd)

    Red champ 20k morale / creeps 40k-70k morale

    What If 5 bas on 40m away focous on you while ungrouped? / 2-3 wargs jump on u while mooving? Read them all those percents then and wait to die.. lol!

    Since now all the others can't be used in decent way so as I ve said I ll wait for update to see..
    Last edited by jivius; Dec 13 2013 at 05:19 AM.


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  2. #2402
    Quote Originally Posted by jivius View Post
    Wrath: 35sec cd

    Evade: 40sec cd

    Hips: 1.30sec cd

    Fight on: 3min cd (I m not able to use it even on spars >2mins cd)

    Red champ 20k morale / creeps 40k-70k morale

    What If 5 bas on 40m away focous on you while ungrouped? Read them all those percents then and wait to die.. lol!

    Since now all the others can't be used in decent way so as I ve said I ll wait for update to see..
    OMG! What do you want? Kill 5 BAs? Something is wrong with the balance of the game if you survive alone against 5 enemies right? We are talking here 1vs1. If the game is in a bit of a balance 1 guy shouldnt be able to take down 2 guys. Looks to me that you forgot that you need to die sometimes. Creeps are played by humans. They want to kill to you know.. Tell me, except for wargs, which creep has skills to run away from 5 freeps? Exactly, none. But you still want these kind of skills right?

    Last 5 pages here you were constantly moaning and crying about broken state of moors. Now when i try to picture you some things you just completely ignore it and post again cooldowns of the skills. Did you think about what these skills mean? How they work? Come on, look at the whole damn picture.

    Update is on BR, i tried it, and its copy of RoR. Reavers are the only class that can do something solo. Im not gonna explain it to you because i posted it in this thread already. Feel free to browse.

    Most creeps that can do dmg will run on 50k morale. Most freeps will run on 20k. Now, your champ has +60% from Fight on landing you on 32k. With RS and BA you will land on around 40k. Now compare dps of champ and dps creep (when audacity is correctly applied on both sides).

    Looks to me that RoR age made you think that you deserve bubles, dire need, unlimited antistun and long sprints. Maybe you should learn how to play first, do the maths about skills, then come here and complain. Now go read again my previous points, maybe something breathtaking will happen in your head and you will see what i posted there. I too thought that theyre insane with this evade cooldown, i dont think se anymore tbh.
    [b][center]LUTZ THE GOD of Whitywindle[/center][/b]

    [center]Z fanboi[/center]

  3. #2403
    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    OMG! What do you want? Kill 5 BAs? Something is wrong with the balance of the game if you survive alone against 5 enemies right? We are talking here 1vs1.

    We are talking about pvp general..

    How many times there's ungrouped action up and down between keeps/shooters without taking any heals?

    Those 5 bas I won't be able even to reach them (not to kill them) while they can hit range from 40m away.. (champ as heavy melee class needs to go in front not to stay at the back)

    Survivability is basic on moors only nabs and new comers don't know this..


    About 1v1:

    6k morale from fight on and 3k morale from 3 bracing attacks on 1.30 min (20k+10k=30k morale total) can't be compared with 2 MT evaded damage every 40secs and 2 wraths healed damage every 35 secs on 50k morale pools

    On spars fight on won't be able to be used either as >2mins cd


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  4. #2404
    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    Now, your champ has +60% from Fight on landing you on 32k.
    Once again:

    Fight on:

    restores 3% of max morale every 2 secs

    Duration: 20 secs

    Cooldown: 3 mins

    20sec/2secs = 10times

    10times x 3% = 30% (where do u see 60%)?


    30% of 20k red champ's morale = 6k morale


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  5. #2405
    Quote Originally Posted by jivius View Post
    We are talking about pvp general..

    How many times there's ungrouped action up and down between keeps/shooters without taking any heals?

    Those 5 bas I won't be able even to reach them (not to kill them) while they can hit range from 40m away.. (champ as heavy melee class needs to go in front not to stay at the back)

    Survivability is basic on moors only nabs and new comers don't know this..
    Yes 5 BAs should kill you in few seconds. 5 hutners will kill reaver in few seconds as well. You will never challenge 5 BAs anyway.

    With 13 ranks you should know that dps and cc is basic of moors. If you kill something before it kills you you win. Its good to have decent survivability but it will never provide win. Except if you play broken/op class.




    Quote Originally Posted by jivius View Post
    About 1v1:

    6k morale from fight on and 3k morale from 3 bracing attacks on 1.30 min (20k+10k=30k morale total) can't be compared with 2 MT evaded damage every 40secs and 2 wraths healed damage every 35 secs on 50k morale pools

    On spars fight on won't be able to be used either as >2mins cd
    With legacy you get 12k morale from fight on. l2p
    3k from 3 bracing attacks
    and if you use a strike skill every 2 seconds (which you should) for 90 seconds thats 45 strike skills. 10% chance for 5% heal from RS gives 4.5 heals (lets round it up to 5) thats 25% of morale = 5k morale

    20+12+3+5 = 40k morale
    [b][center]LUTZ THE GOD of Whitywindle[/center][/b]

    [center]Z fanboi[/center]

  6. #2406
    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    Yes 5 BAs should kill you in few seconds. 5 hutners will kill reaver in few seconds as well. You will never challenge 5 BAs anyway.

    With 13 ranks you should know that dps and cc is basic of moors. If you kill something before it kills you you win. Its good to have decent survivability but it will never provide win. Except if you play broken/op class.






    With legacy you get 12k morale from fight on. l2p
    3k from 3 bracing attacks
    and if you use a strike skill every 2 seconds (which you should) for 90 seconds thats 45 strike skills. 10% chance for 5% heal from RS gives 4.5 heals (lets round it up to 5) thats 25% of morale = 5k morale

    20+12+3+5 = 40k morale
    1. Need to waste legacy/points for a skill with 3min cd for 6k morale? (of course not by the time u can't use it even on spars + I ll loose much dps on these 3mins from this)
    2. With kite/evade + 10% chance none can count on RS vs bas
    3. Even on 40k morale: How difficult is for a ba to make 40k dmg on 90secs? 40k/90= 445 dmg per sec (not so difficult)
    Reaver has 50-60k + 2 heals from wraths on 90secs (do the math there)
    Warg/spiders can counter fight on with a single hip/borrow
    Last edited by jivius; Dec 13 2013 at 07:12 AM.


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  7. #2407
    Im not sure whats your point Haras. Do you think Creeps goin to be OP with CDs youve listed?
    Gilrain: Keeslanaff - r12 RVR
    Withy: Keeslaff - r13 HNT, Cometodaddy - r9 BA, Warglaff -r7 STK

  8. #2408
    Quote Originally Posted by giboosc View Post
    Im not sure whats your point Haras. Do you think Creeps goin to be OP with CDs youve listed?
    Update will show..

    Since now we compare low survivability cds of creeps vs red champ's survivability skills


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  9. #2409
    Quote Originally Posted by jivius View Post
    1. Need to waste legacy/points for a skill with 3min cd for 6k morale? (of course not by the time u can't use it even on spars + I ll loose much dps on these 3mins from this)
    2. With kite/evade + 10% chance none can count on RS vs bas
    3. Even on 40k morale: How difficult is for a ba to make 40k dmg on 90secs?
    Reaver has 50-60k + 2 heals from wraths (do the math there)
    Warg/spiders can counter fight on a single hip/borrow
    Sure, i dont have time so ill do it fast:

    1. Swap weapon (or rune not sure)
    2. Good champ cant be kited, especially with CD slow and hamstring root. Almost all strike skills have 2-3 hits so you get the heal anyway. + im not sure if you need to hit or jsut use the skill.
    3. You have double base dmg, many crit multipliers and posibility to have up to 40% crit for some time. Possibility to get +70% melee dmg, -25% attack speed. Huge resistance on bleeds with cbr. You have double if not triple avoidance. When those 2 hips/burrow, you get some cooldowns back.
    + you have -20% dmg, -25% dmg, +10% miss chance debuffs

    I dont have more time now, next lesson some other day.

    Maybe this time you do the math
    [b][center]LUTZ THE GOD of Whitywindle[/center][/b]

    [center]Z fanboi[/center]

  10. #2410
    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    Sure, i dont have time so ill do it fast:

    1. Swap weapon (or rune not sure)
    2. Good champ cant be kited, especially with CD slow and hamstring root. Almost all strike skills have 2-3 hits so you get the heal anyway. + im not sure if you need to hit or jsut use the skill.
    3. You have double base dmg, many crit multipliers and posibility to have up to 40% crit for some time. Possibility to get +70% melee dmg, -25% attack speed. Huge resistance on bleeds with cbr. You have double if not triple avoidance. When those 2 hips/burrow, you get some cooldowns back.
    + you have -20% dmg, -25% dmg, +10% miss chance debuffs

    I dont have more time now, next lesson some other day.

    Maybe this time you do the math
    Just open 2 evades put some uruk heal pot dazes on 10 secs without evade and make 40k damage on 90secs like u do it on a dummy..

    EDIT: You can't swap gear on HD if u are in combat.. Oops!

    After hips/burrow when fight on expires in some secs only survivability skill is bracing attack on red champ. Champions dule expires too if out of combat for 9 secs..
    Last edited by jivius; Dec 13 2013 at 07:27 AM.


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  11. #2411
    Join Date
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    Haras knows everything lutz dont argue with him. Despite he hasnt even spent 1 minute in the classes he is speaking off he knows everything.

  12. #2412
    Quote Originally Posted by paiNz View Post
    Haras knows everything lutz dont argue with him. Despite he hasnt even spent 1 minute in the classes he is speaking off he knows everything.
    New anonymous fruit!

    Aff is that u? Dual forouming?


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  13. #2413
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    Quote Originally Posted by jivius View Post
    40k damage on 90secs like u do it on a dummy..

    EDIT: You can't swap gear on HD if u are in combat.. Oops!

    After hips/burrow when fight on expires in some secs only survivability skill is bracing attack on red champ. Champions dule expires too if out of combat for 9 secs..
    1-You can swap li's;
    2-hips is no survivability skill, its an escape/attack skill.
    #JeSuisDunc

    [img]http://i59.tinypic.com/11rgmfm.png[/img]

  14. #2414
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    Quote Originally Posted by jivius View Post
    New anonymous fruit!

    Aff is that u? Dual forouming?
    Old crying and clueless fruit. xD

    Yes its me but some people that cant reply keep reporting me. Why do you ask anyway? You made your lifes dream to ban me so i wont shove the truth everyday in your face.

    Haras do you have a BA or a Reaver ABOVE rank6? No? I know. So please close your mouth.

    Edit: You have been crying about creeps last 10 pages but you never bothered playing besides ROI OP Warg. Your opinion counts as much as Hurati's. Stick to the gz posts and leave threads like those.

  15. #2415
    Quote Originally Posted by jivius View Post
    Just open 2 evades put some uruk heal pot dazes on 10 secs without evade and make 40k damage on 90secs like u do it on a dummy..

    EDIT: You can't swap gear on HD if u are in combat.. Oops!

    After hips/burrow when fight on expires in some secs only survivability skill is bracing attack on red champ. Champions dule expires too if out of combat for 9 secs..
    You can swap LIs, you cant swap armour etc.

    I explained evade already, read again.

    If we follow your logic... Yeah but after spider burrowed or warg hipsed they have that skill on cooldown.. What then? CD has 1min cd. This is where good tactic is important. Maybe before you use FO you should nuke him down with cbr, cb and cd. And after all, you have your lovely sprint skill.

    Good champ should prepare for that 10s period and do a lot of dmg. Anyway evade is not so op, go read my post again please.

    I would like to see some better reason for this complaining. Try with similar methods as i did. You are the one that is complaining, so put your facts here and we can discuss. Reasons like "omg you have evade wrath and hips" are lame.
    [b][center]LUTZ THE GOD of Whitywindle[/center][/b]

    [center]Z fanboi[/center]

  16. #2416
    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    You can swap LIs, you cant swap armour etc.

    I explained evade already, read again.

    If we follow your logic... Yeah but after spider burrowed or warg hipsed they have that skill on cooldown.. What then? CD has 1min cd. This is where good tactic is important. Maybe before you use FO you should nuke him down with cbr, cb and cd. And after all, you have your lovely sprint skill.

    Good champ should prepare for that 10s period and do a lot of dmg. Anyway evade is not so op, go read my post again please.

    I would like to see some better reason for this complaining. Try with similar methods as i did. You are the one that is complaining, so put your facts here and we can discuss. Reasons like "omg you have evade wrath and hips" are lame.
    1. You can't swap even LI class items try it..

    2. Fight on duration 20secs and cd on 3mins/ hips cd 1.30min / burrow cd 1min so they are able to do it later again after counter it.. You tell me to play red champ so as to spint away on 1v1? lol As u know Warg can sprint too / Spider's out of combat speed is almost as champs sprint...

    3. From 10 secs I ll loose 2-4 from your daze+kite and u can use uruk heal morale pot to reduse the inc dps of that small window.. (evade is not so op = ...)

    4. I need to inform u that the discussion start about your QQ about blue traited champs while in current time they can be outdpsed even from a mid decent warg.. I just wanted to show to u that things are not in the way that used to be with all these crazy small cds..

    U say blue HD champs lame
    U say others lame when they refer small op creep cds..

    Something is not hearing well here..
    Last edited by jivius; Dec 13 2013 at 08:23 AM.


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  17. #2417
    Quote Originally Posted by jivius View Post
    1. You can't swap even LI try it..

    2. Fight on duration 20secs and cd on 3mins/ hips cd 1.30min / burrow cd 1min so they are able to do it later again after counter it.. You tell me to play red champ so as to spint away on 1v1? lol As u know Warg can sprint too / Spider's out of combat speed is almost as champs sprint...

    3. From 10 secs I ll loose 2-4 from your daze+kite and u can use uruk heal morale pot to reduse the inc dps of that small window.. (evade is not so op = ...)

    4. I need to inform u that the discussion start about your QQ about blue traited champs while in current time they can be outdpsed even from a mid decent warg.. I just wanted to show to u that things are not in the way that used to be with all these crazy small cds..
    Since you dont want to accept any different opinions, nor you present any decent pros or cons there is no point discussing with you.

    All you showed with this discussion with me is that you have no idea about your own class (where again FO is 40s duration with legacy) and that you have no idea about any other classes. Maybe you should start playing your class, read tooltips, get some decent rotation and not only randomly press buttons.

    LI will be able to swap (Its bug known from beta, but sadly came live)

    Have fun discussing with affected and co XD
    [b][center]LUTZ THE GOD of Whitywindle[/center][/b]

    [center]Z fanboi[/center]

  18. #2418
    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    Since you dont want to accept any different opinions, nor you present any decent pros or cons there is no point discussing with you.

    All you showed with this discussion with me is that you have no idea about your own class (where again FO is 40s duration with legacy) and that you have no idea about any other classes. Maybe you should start playing your class, read tooltips, get some decent rotation and not only randomly press buttons.

    LI will be able to swap (Its bug known from beta, but sadly came live)

    Have fun discussing with affected and co XD
    Told u that i m not going to use FO legacy by the time Legendary class item can't swap during in combat..

    You show me that u are looking for no challenging battles like hiting 40k on 90secs..


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  19. #2419
    It becoming clear that Champs got nerfed. It will take 30secs to take down average creep, instead of 20s.
    Gilrain: Keeslanaff - r12 RVR
    Withy: Keeslaff - r13 HNT, Cometodaddy - r9 BA, Warglaff -r7 STK

  20. #2420
    Quote Originally Posted by giboosc View Post
    It becoming clear that Champs got nerfed. It will take 30secs to take down average creep, instead of 20s.
    30 secs? lol

    50k/30secs = hiting 1650 dmg per sec without counting heals evades hips burrows ++


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  21. #2421
    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    Wrath=fight on. Champ-reaver fight shouldn't take more then a minute -minute and half. Reaver doesnt have bracing attack and renewal strikes and a killing spree will prevent dying from bleeds after kill.
    Wrath = 2% morale - thats 1200 heal (for 60K morale reaver) - and it happens on hit - not sure if auto-attacks count into it, if yes its 1-2 procs per second - thats 1200-2000 hps self heal
    with 100% proc chance, against a champ it should be around 80-90% hit chance, so 960-1800 hps self heal. It can be kited though, but considering the short CD and slow abilities of reaver, its probably only worth it if youre ranged dpser, youd kite anyway. But against melee classes, wrath must be deadly unless they changed it.
    Fight On = restores 3% max morale every 2 secs for 20 secs = thats 450 heal for 15K morale champ every 2 seconds = 225 hps

    But I logged my reaver only once in HD and didnt test it and maybe im doing the math wrong and wrath does less self heal, but i remember having over 400 hps heal from it in some parses in RoR so with having 3 times more morale, 1200 hps self heal or more could be real.
    Naius - Burglar of Withywindle
    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-uYwngjXZI[/url]

  22. #2422
    If you create a character sololey for ettenmoors in lotro, you're going to have a bad time.
    [IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/344cakx.jpg[/IMG]

  23. #2423
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg112 View Post
    If you create a character sololey for ettenmoors in lotro, you're going to have a bad time.
    All creeps have a bad time
    [center][URL=http://s1170.photobucket.com/user/Glohir/media/99b92620-47a6-43d6-8b52-1ff43a173a35_zpsz90debot.png.html][IMG]http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r524/Glohir/99b92620-47a6-43d6-8b52-1ff43a173a35_zpsz90debot.png[/IMG][/URL][/center]

  24. #2424
    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Wrath = 2% morale - thats 1200 heal (for 60K morale reaver) - and it happens on hit - not sure if auto-attacks count into it, if yes its 1-2 procs per second - thats 1200-2000 hps self heal
    with 100% proc chance, against a champ it should be around 80-90% hit chance, so 960-1800 hps self heal. It can be kited though, but considering the short CD and slow abilities of reaver, its probably only worth it if youre ranged dpser, youd kite anyway. But against melee classes, wrath must be deadly unless they changed it.
    Fight On = restores 3% max morale every 2 secs for 20 secs = thats 450 heal for 15K morale champ every 2 seconds = 225 hps

    But I logged my reaver only once in HD and didnt test it and maybe im doing the math wrong and wrath does less self heal, but i remember having over 400 hps heal from it in some parses in RoR so with having 3 times more morale, 1200 hps self heal or more could be real.
    Yes youre doing it wrong. Problem is cooldown on former "spamskill" Sudden strikes where you could get higher heals just because there was basicly no delay between skills. When you dont spam these skills you have pretty long delays compared to sudden strikes spam. Basicly you get skill off every 1.5-2 skills. Hit chance could be around 80. Now that should be more like 600 hps, where champ with other all healing skills shoulkd be around or even more then 300. Dont forget debuffs for dmg that are a lot more potent then potable miss chance from reaver. Impale could make a difference with dev strike after it. Reavers are strongest creep class, so if champ can fight evenly against them, im sure others wont be a big issue, except maybe spider.
    [b][center]LUTZ THE GOD of Whitywindle[/center][/b]

    [center]Z fanboi[/center]

  25. #2425
    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Wrath = 2% morale - thats 1200 heal (for 60K morale reaver) - and it happens on hit - not sure if auto-attacks count into it, if yes its 1-2 procs per second - thats 1200-2000 hps self heal
    with 100% proc chance, against a champ it should be around 80-90% hit chance, so 960-1800 hps self heal. It can be kited though, but considering the short CD and slow abilities of reaver, its probably only worth it if youre ranged dpser, youd kite anyway. But against melee classes, wrath must be deadly unless they changed it.
    Fight On = restores 3% max morale every 2 secs for 20 secs = thats 450 heal for 15K morale champ every 2 seconds = 225 hps

    But I logged my reaver only once in HD and didnt test it and maybe im doing the math wrong and wrath does less self heal, but i remember having over 400 hps heal from it in some parses in RoR so with having 3 times more morale, 1200 hps self heal or more could be real.
    its only on skill hit, else it would be to OP.

 

 
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