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  1. #3276
    So your point is that creep side is overwhelming freeps with their superior dps?
    I find that creeps have an edge when it comes to getting one specific target down instantly in rapid fights, whereas the freep side by a long-shot has the tools to overpower opponents by pure constant damage output, while having a distinct wider pool of debuffs/buffs/stuns/mez/knockdown/cj/area damage at their disposal.
    Also in your example of a RK EC'ing for 7k and Hunter US for 10k, sorry I don't believe they are hitting that low in the first place, secondly add all the damage boosts a freep group can have on the target and the hits become 12k and 15k. While the creep damage stops after Impale (DS)/VT, the freeps can follow their big hitters by nearly as potent skills.
    To back that arguement, RK can follow EC by ceaseless arguement+Shocking words+lightining bolt (or the new AoE lightning toggle skill), which stand only a little bit behind the initial EC damage.
    Hunter I really don't know so much about to make a fact based opinion here, but let's not forget that each time the target hits 50%(70% from traits) morale, hunter can apply -50% inc heal. (same CD as dev strike)
    And they still are the top ST damage class.
    I'm a big believer in pure-dps classes which I consider being champion/rk/hunter/burglar and from my recent experience, the freep groups tend to fill up with secondary damage players which I find to be the biggest obstacle as far as being competitive against a group with same/bigger numbers.
    Along with the previous thoughts, bearing in mind the last update, I find it useless to go into ettenmoors without maxed mitigation virtues, which is something new to many that I've met.

    So to counter your statement that in numbers creep side are superior to freeps, I challenge you to make a group of 12 consisting of 2 healers,2 captains(red+yellow), lm, rest pure dps classes and go fight 12 creeps with same defiler warleader ratio that your captain/mini ratio. If you still find freeps to be weak, ill rescind all ive written and apologize.
    [IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/344cakx.jpg[/IMG]

  2. #3277
    I brought a group of new freeps from my kin today, they were scaled and low rank.
    We ran into another group of greeny creeps almost immediately and had some really good back and forth fights.

    I think it is safe to say that we have even more new freeps in the moors of Withy, coupled with some new creeps.
    Train them well.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  3. #3278
    Quote Originally Posted by georg112 View Post
    from reading previous 15 pages...
    Don't go soft dunc
    Akro, get out of the firing lines, you can't make them make up and kiss
    irmas with his jibberish rants is always a fun read
    rols, I'm sure you know this is the best solo balance we've had for god knows how long, so dying on freep is a legitimate outcome
    some new withywindlers on pvmp :P?... just teach them well and don't let them stray off the path of decency.
    ^^

    Lulling them into a false sense of security Georg.

  4. #3279
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    I brought a group of new freeps from my kin today, they were scaled and low rank.
    We ran into another group of greeny creeps almost immediately and had some really good back and forth fights.

    I think it is safe to say that we have even more new freeps in the moors of Withy, coupled with some new creeps.
    Train them well.
    Got pretty decent control of any high rank groups at them moment so you should be safe from all but low rank groups and solos.
    Didn't like the massacring of low rank creeps by freep groups and the opposite wont be tolerated while Im leading .
    Some good fights last night , if a bit late.
    Buy a new PC Akro .

  5. #3280
    Quote Originally Posted by elfbane1 View Post
    Got pretty decent control of any high rank groups at them moment so you should be safe from all but low rank groups and solos.
    Didn't like the massacring of low rank creeps by freep groups and the opposite wont be tolerated while Im leading .
    Some good fights last night , if a bit late.
    Buy a new PC Akro .
    Think it was more the Powerpoints and documents I had open, hopefully we'll find out tonight ^^
    Akrorgash - r11 reaver // Morakh - r8 wl // Tyrakh r6 ba // Silthus r8 Defi // Rawrik r6 neglected warg // ----- Withywindle

  6. #3281
    Was talking to a freep tonight. He tells me the usual freep leaders have stopped leading, which explains the terrible action in the past week or so. Just him leading now.

    I spoke to him and explained our perspective, he understood and accepts that creep leaders are trying, but the fact is, if he is fighting a craid that already has an advantage because a. creeps more powerful this update b. freeps have trouble getting the minis atm, then if he then sees double the creeps fighting his fraid, he will disband after a wipe. He said there were 30ish creeps on track at lug hill and he had 15 freeps.

    I then suggested that after that wipe, if he hadn't disbanded, the craid would/should have disbanded or, at least, some people would have switched to low rank chars, and we'd have tried to map away from the leechers. I do think he was rash in disbanding, particularly when before that we'd had some alright fights and we'd wiped a few times. But, I can understand him getting annoyed - the map was red and they were getting 6 renown per kill, no ops. Again, not the craids fault.

    So I don't entirely agree with him. I think freeps could be more patient, I think there is much merit in the forum consensus that this update, freeps are not adjusting well enough to being the new underdogs. But that doesn't change the fact that freeps are annoyed, and at the moment, action is suffering because of it. So I honestly couldn't really care less even if the freeps were literally whining over nothing = it doesn't matter, because they are upset, and therefore action sucks for them and us.

    The craid isn't to blame as I explained to him, its the leechers and the lack of freeps.

    There are less freeps logging into Moors everyday, so they have a lot more trouble getting together a fraid. We know already that if freeps/creeps don't have a leader online, they'll just sit at GV and wait - so now with only one (useful) leader they don't often get that fraid going. When they do, they don't have that many freeps. They struggle to find 20. To fight creeps this update, they need a lot of minis OR, some v. good dps and cc. Lava no longer has VIP. Dah AWOL. No idea where Imi/Lain are but they haven't logged recently. So only minis freeps can find is Rosli, Cele and Rhia.

    So there are less freeps. Some of them are logging creep -> that isn't helpful and tbh I don't understand why, with the exception of Lavi, who doesn't have VIP anymore. But even if they weren't, we'd still have far more creeps in Moors than freeps most nights.

    I logged freep the other night and I was a little bit disgusted by two things: 1. Freeps sat in GV, nobody is there to lead them. There are experienced ranked freeps sat there. But nobody will step up to lead. I asked them why, and the only reply I got was Arafast, who told me he'd be up for it but he didn't have a mic atm. Instead there is a kin group and the group I was in with Beo and Nova. Freepside is not united like creepside, and that is part of the problem. 2. Creeps camping gv the same night with a few groups, including sadly some creep friends of mine - running with far too many heals. I like a lot of creeps as people, but sadly I respect few of them these days because they are taking advantage of the situation - but only once the craid action is over.

    Come back Dahawk and others - yes Dunc shouldn't have responded so aggressively to your posts here, he apologised later on. But he is not the enemy. He wants decent action. He is not the problem. Yes he makes mistakes and bad calls sometimes, but so does every freep/creep.We can't control leechers. But guess what is making the situation even worse? Those freeps that don't log anymore. So the freeps that are left now, that are trying, are getting more and more annoyed everyday because of this imbalance. Please don't let Withy moors die.

    Not my most coherent post, but for the TL; DR folks: 1. Freeps who have left need to come back for things to improve 2. Craids have got to carry on being considerate, and possibly might have to be outrageously considerate sometimes and disband to prevent death of action (if enough leechers).
    Last edited by Akrorgash; May 19 2014 at 10:27 PM.
    Akrorgash - r11 reaver // Morakh - r8 wl // Tyrakh r6 ba // Silthus r8 Defi // Rawrik r6 neglected warg // ----- Withywindle

  7. #3282
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    236
    Well yeah some fights yesterday was nice and I was killed many times on creep ( love my reaver ) maybe I was part of the reason why Hawky not here as we played creep group 1 night when they did not had many. I don't think its just because of the creep side more OP then before or unbalanced groups that the freeps not playing, the game is at its most boring part ever since I start playing it and myself go and play other games more and more.

    It time we get more freep leaders for moors. I heal mostly everytime I play on freep side so not going to try lead while healing someone. Hope Imi returns soon and Haras.

    I will get working on passes in moors to play freep side when they need it so VIP is not an excuse for not playing freep.
    E-strolling must be made in South Africa.

  8. #3283
    Quote Originally Posted by Akrorgash View Post
    To fight creeps this update, they need a lot of minis OR, some v. good dps and cc. Lava no longer has VIP. Dah AWOL. No idea where Imi/Lain are but they haven't logged recently. So only minis freeps can find is Rosli, Cele and Rhia.
    Maybe the same reason that freeps struggle to get heals is for the same reason creeps have less healers until specifically asked for, and that's this whole heal stacking argument nonsense. If I log my mini, there's a good chance that somebody will say 'oh look another healing mini, now they're stacking heals' without considering whether we need the extra healer to survive or not.

  9. #3284
    some freeps left/are coming less because of RL problems(me for example, having finals and it's harder to find time to log at night).
    i've logged quite a few days lately not in the primetime, and what i saw usually was a full red/blue map with 4 OPs to the side that controlls the map.
    this is not healthy for action.
    while we're trying to have spars from time to time just to check changes we did to characters or just to have fun, some ppl are coming to zerg/taking all OPs and camping them. i'm sorry, but if we're sparring, we're doing it because we don't want/can't make a group. taking all OPs and camping them so we'll stop sparring won't make us to make a group and come to zerg the campers, it will just make us to leave. same for both sides.
    i've tried to make a group of creeps some days ago (with fata) and we had 6...freeps had 10 at least (pr0 counting from us) idm if soloers or not, and we had like 2-3 wargs leeching. we came back after wipes. we died alot. we killed the freeps a few times. was very nice action.
    why can't we get groups of 6 creeps roaming around the map? why can't we get groups of 6 freeps roaming around the map? and if we're making a raid, why don't we check if the other side can fight us without being heavily outnumbered/unable to fight due to no leader/unable to fight because all of the map is controlled by the other side and the other side is having 4 OPs?
    if we would not just do the cycle of Login->Raidup->Search for other side's group, even if it does not exist, it could make the action abit better.
    i was saying this side and the other side, because it's not always creeps outnumbering freeps, sometimes the freeps are the outnumbering. it happens.
    with some communication/will to make it balanced instead of just making a raid instantly when you come to the moors, the action would be much better for both sides.
    hopefully someone can see my point here and aim for it to be done on both sides..
    just my point of view.
    [center][IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/ohqwlt.png[/IMG][/center]
    [center][color=red][size=3]all chars kinda retired, not playin anymore[/size][/color][/center]
    [center]out of date but too bored to change it[/center]

  10. #3285
    Quote Originally Posted by roi1807 View Post
    some freeps left/are coming less because of RL problems(me for example, having finals and it's harder to find time to log at night).
    i've logged quite a few days lately not in the primetime, and what i saw usually was a full red/blue map with 4 OPs to the side that controlls the map.
    this is not healthy for action.
    while we're trying to have spars from time to time just to check changes we did to characters or just to have fun, some ppl are coming to zerg/taking all OPs and camping them. i'm sorry, but if we're sparring, we're doing it because we don't want/can't make a group. taking all OPs and camping them so we'll stop sparring won't make us to make a group and come to zerg the campers, it will just make us to leave. same for both sides.
    i've tried to make a group of creeps some days ago (with fata) and we had 6...freeps had 10 at least (pr0 counting from us) idm if soloers or not, and we had like 2-3 wargs leeching. we came back after wipes. we died alot. we killed the freeps a few times. was very nice action.
    why can't we get groups of 6 creeps roaming around the map? why can't we get groups of 6 freeps roaming around the map? and if we're making a raid, why don't we check if the other side can fight us without being heavily outnumbered/unable to fight due to no leader/unable to fight because all of the map is controlled by the other side and the other side is having 4 OPs?
    if we would not just do the cycle of Login->Raidup->Search for other side's group, even if it does not exist, it could make the action abit better.
    i was saying this side and the other side, because it's not always creeps outnumbering freeps, sometimes the freeps are the outnumbering. it happens.
    with some communication/will to make it balanced instead of just making a raid instantly when you come to the moors, the action would be much better for both sides.
    hopefully someone can see my point here and aim for it to be done on both sides..
    just my point of view.
    I also would like to see something like this happening.

    Small group action is more fun in my opinion and less laggy. It will also give the smaller side a larger chance of finding action without being vastly outnumbered.

    Roi also said something about RL getting in the way of many leaders and players on both sides. Exam season goes on for about a month starting last week, this is undoubtedly getting in the way if people wanting to play the game.
    If there are still no freep leaders out there in a month or so, we will need to start up this conversation again.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  11. #3286
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealwynn View Post
    Maybe the same reason that freeps struggle to get heals is for the same reason creeps have less healers until specifically asked for, and that's this whole heal stacking argument nonsense. If I log my mini, there's a good chance that somebody will say 'oh look another healing mini, now they're stacking heals' without considering whether we need the extra healer to survive or not.
    Yes they will because it's the 'cool' thing to do, 'oh omg look they got another mini..' 'why are they hugging' 'lol they hug because they're freeps' -> just ignore this bs because its usually from people who aren't trying to understand the situation. Heard similar stuff freepside from freeps who just try to pure dps targets down and then wonder why they can't kill anything.

    But that kind of argument is not as prevelant now as it was before U13 - now we like to see minis in fraid because it means we might get some prolonged action

    @Lava Would be surprised if it was somehow your fault Fata, and get VIP not those silly overpriced passes! xD


    @Rols shut up about finals, i'm pretending they don't exist atm ^^ Yes heard Imi isn't well, but impression I got was a lot of the rest are annoyed ^^ Groups of 6 sound fantastic, and in this week ive been a in a few myself, but they soon turn into 12 mans because the freeps rarely run as just 6 - which i can kind of understand because of worry re zergs. But, I would think that a skilled 6 man has little to fear as long as they keep moving around the map.

    Can't speak for freepside, but these days, aside from the occasional 6 man, craids aren't formed unless there are 6+ freeps looking like they are grouped. We die a lot solo mapping to where freeps are before we actually group up :P

    I think communication could work very well right now, we are all reasonable people.

    I think most freeps are older than Rols and don't have exam issues and after what the freep I spoke to told me, I think thats not the problem here.
    Akrorgash - r11 reaver // Morakh - r8 wl // Tyrakh r6 ba // Silthus r8 Defi // Rawrik r6 neglected warg // ----- Withywindle

  12. #3287
    Quote Originally Posted by Akrorgash View Post
    I think most freeps are older than Rols and don't have exam issues and after what the freep I spoke to told me, I think thats not the problem here.
    exams starting now not only in school...university also
    +i'm not sure about many ppl, i see big loss of freeps and i can't know about every1
    [center][IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/ohqwlt.png[/IMG][/center]
    [center][color=red][size=3]all chars kinda retired, not playin anymore[/size][/color][/center]
    [center]out of date but too bored to change it[/center]

  13. #3288
    Quote Originally Posted by Akrorgash View Post
    @Lava Would be surprised if it was somehow your fault Fata, and get VIP not those silly overpriced passes! xD
    Well those overpriced passes can be bought by farming tp in game which don't require real life money. Currently our country's currency is a lot of money when converted to US Dollars and even more so to the Euro.
    'In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him.'

  14. #3289
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenila View Post
    Well those overpriced passes can be bought by farming tp in game which don't require real life money. Currently our country's currency is a lot of money when converted to US Dollars and even more so to the Euro.
    I just googled it, and yes, can see your problem. But the passes are still ridiculous for what you get :P Not worth the grind imo, stay on creep - one person going back freepside isn't going to help and I think the issue is more lack of leaders/not wanting to group with anyone but buddies. (I don't count Chedder and his gang in this because I'm aware of the issue there)

    @Rols: I know, I'm at Uni xD I was told reason that there are less freeps is because of creep numbers and their inability to cope with them, so idk who goes to school/uni or whatever, but that is what I was told was the reason ^^
    Akrorgash - r11 reaver // Morakh - r8 wl // Tyrakh r6 ba // Silthus r8 Defi // Rawrik r6 neglected warg // ----- Withywindle

  15. #3290
    Quote Originally Posted by Akrorgash View Post
    I just googled it, and yes, can see your problem. But the passes are still ridiculous for what you get :P Not worth the grind imo, stay on creep - one person going back freepside isn't going to help and I think the issue is more lack of leaders/not wanting to group with anyone but buddies. (I don't count Chedder and his gang in this because I'm aware of the issue there)

    @Rols: I know, I'm at Uni xD I was told reason that there are less freeps is because of creep numbers and their inability to cope with them, so idk who goes to school/uni or whatever, but that is what I was told was the reason ^^
    That may be the case for why the guy you talked to is frustrated. There have not been many freeps on for the past week.
    However, that is when exam season started, people need to study.

    I am not sure about the other fraid leaders, but from what I heard fom Dahawkz while he was in voice chat suggests he is pretty young. Definitely possible that he is still in college.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  16. #3291
    Quote Originally Posted by Akrorgash View Post
    ust ignore this bs because its usually from people who aren't trying to understand the situation.
    That sums up a worrying number of people these days, though.

    Also, finals here too, im trying to play when im not revising but it's sucking up a lot of time

  17. #3292
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealwynn View Post
    Maybe the same reason that freeps struggle to get heals is for the same reason creeps have less healers until specifically asked for, and that's this whole heal stacking argument nonsense. If I log my mini, there's a good chance that somebody will say 'oh look another healing mini, now they're stacking heals' without considering whether we need the extra healer to survive or not.
    Don't care any more how many minis you bring , creeps currently hold the right side of balance and can make a group to fight whatever's there , lot of creeps missing too, may be exams or apathy at a #### game.

    I log on and react to what the other side have got , according to reports of people I trust not to exaggerate .I don't run around with a group top fight nothing , everyone on creep side will support this.




    Thur 15..30 creeps , heal stacked



    Fri 16 . 30 creeps .. heal stacked



    Sat 17 ...30 creeps ,,heal stacked



    Sun 18..30 creeps , heal stacked.



    Mon 19 ..30 creeps , heal stacked.

    As Santarem will tell you , nothing rankles more than being accused of something you are not guilty of.

  18. #3293
    Quote Originally Posted by elfbane1 View Post
    Don't care any more how many minis you bring , creeps currently hold the right side of balance and can make a group to fight whatever's there , lot of creeps missing too, may be exams or apathy at a #### game.

    I log on and react to what the other side have got , according to reports of people I trust not to exaggerate .I don't run around with a group top fight nothing , everyone on creep side will support this.
    I think you missed my point Dunc, im agreeing with the creeps way of only getting heals as and when they need them, instead of Freeps raiding up to fight solos. On freepside you're known as a healstacker, but having spent the past few days in your raids and in TS, i'm not sure why

  19. #3294
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bowling Green, Ohio
    Posts
    4,423
    I've never seen that many plugins and stat markers in a screen, but then PvMP isn't my regular gig. What are those plugins called that seem to be the norm in this thread's screen shots?
    Founder, Leader - www.SonsOfNumenor.com

  20. #3295
    I give up.

    Stuff to do in rl right now that is more important. Action isn't great and is only going to get worse thanks to how freepside is fractured at the moment. Wish I could help fix it but tbh I'm not sure I should give this game too much more of my life. Got enough stuff to deal with in rl without silly game I'm supposed to be playing for fun adding more. Uninstalled for a bit.

    Ty to Rols for spars earlier, good fun.
    Akrorgash - r11 reaver // Morakh - r8 wl // Tyrakh r6 ba // Silthus r8 Defi // Rawrik r6 neglected warg // ----- Withywindle

  21. #3296
    Quote Originally Posted by Comstrike View Post
    I've never seen that many plugins and stat markers in a screen, but then PvMP isn't my regular gig. What are those plugins called that seem to be the norm in this thread's screen shots?
    If you're talking about Dunc/Gzumrats screenshots, he has the PvMP+ plugin open across the top, with his last 5 kills in the bottom corner.

    Also he has 2 raid assist targets, and because he's playing a healer, he has the vitals of every raid member open at once so he can heal/bubble them. It might look cluttered but it all makes sense

  22. #3297
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    236
    Quote Originally Posted by Akrorgash View Post
    I give up.

    Stuff to do in rl right now that is more important. Action isn't great and is only going to get worse thanks to how freepside is fractured at the moment. Wish I could help fix it but tbh I'm not sure I should give this game too much more of my life. Got enough stuff to deal with in rl without silly game I'm supposed to be playing for fun adding more. Uninstalled for a bit.

    Ty to Rols for spars earlier, good fun.
    Well tbh I was gutted last night after spending tp for a pass and we disbanded 30 minutes later so now for 1st time I spent time on festival... Hope you enjoy the off time from Lotro Akror and going to miss you calling me the nab ( true ) on creep

    Its boring to not play the night in moors.
    Well tbh I am not gona blame anyone last night and seemed like a big misunderstanding from my side.

    People want to play so guys from outside groups will follow you or look for you on map freep side and creep side.

    Ps : Already got my new 68 speed horse from 1 hour festival play
    E-strolling must be made in South Africa.

  23. #3298
    Quote Originally Posted by Akrorgash View Post
    I give up.

    Stuff to do in rl right now that is more important. Action isn't great and is only going to get worse thanks to how freepside is fractured at the moment. Wish I could help fix it but tbh I'm not sure I should give this game too much more of my life. Got enough stuff to deal with in rl without silly game I'm supposed to be playing for fun adding more. Uninstalled for a bit.

    Ty to Rols for spars earlier, good fun.
    Me too , going to take a break , not wasting any more time on this unless things improve.

    Will maintain a presence on Cojones TS if you need me but wont be logging in otherwise.

    Thanks for all the fun guys .

  24. #3299
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    I brought a group of new freeps from my kin today, they were scaled and low rank.
    We ran into another group of greeny creeps almost immediately and had some really good back and forth fights.

    I think it is safe to say that we have even more new freeps in the moors of Withy, coupled with some new creeps.
    Train them well.
    I've been on Withywindle but had never gone into the Moors before. This week I've rolled a creep and started exploring that side of things. Each time I've been on there have been some very helpful, welcoming players: it's great fun. The freeps have had a nice balance between pitying the new guy and showing the hard truths of war, too, which is both hilarious and helpful. Speaking as a Newblet, it's all very good to see!
    Neddor, Untrustworthy Guardian of Arkenstone
    Massan, Captain Nutter of Laurelin

  25. #3300
    A lot of the past few days has comprised of fun small group action when everyone is not standing around GV or Grams.
    Its been fun once everyone breaks out into groups.
    Withywindle will have great action if people break out sooner.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

 

 
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