Wonder if they may get nerfed next, who knows, I also have some wargs scattered all over the servers so going to explore a bit.
Wonder if they may get nerfed next, who knows, I also have some wargs scattered all over the servers so going to explore a bit.
For the sake of self dignity - guys, stop with rolling new defilers. Its OP, its exactly same thing as freeps did are doin with FOTM classes.
Remember "They are nabs, they stacking heals" phrase?
For Irmas and 'ganking drama'. Its too laate now, but pre-u13 u should roll a grenie creep and try to step out of grams. U would be surprised how those fair-play freeps are oneshooting u, again and again, and again. You would be even more surprised after taking a look at your combat log - clean.
If you are blaming someone for ganking start blamng your side-mates. 3 burgs + mini groups were more EZ and lame than any wargpack i can imagine. Both sides are ganking.
TBH i didnt know that there is wargpacks ganking untill i transfered my freep here and being ganked But still - i am ganked no matter wich side im playing. Both sides doing it.
Apart from defilers which are really just too much (but really they are just a new mini)
this update looks good balance-wise imo..
Lol at those scalers tho, they are just a free meat.
Everyone can write his/her own opinion about new update although old players have seen same kind of action again at start of RoR and actually know what pvp we are going to have..
The only sure thing is that Turbine pvp creators seems to be really confused from update to update..
P.S. : Rest are here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...08-Defilers-OP
Last edited by jivius; Apr 15 2014 at 04:44 AM.
Yep still happening this morning the new freeps are going to love this style of play they get to explore soooooo much of the map.......... lets see how long they stick around it was already hard enough to get new people into the moors.
Basically many of the guards, yellow-lined cappies, minis, and burgs will be fighting the good fight with you on their defiler!
Also, before "Im quitting' drama, some of us should calm down and consider words below:
Andneeds a bit more testing before throwing the nerf bat...but lets look at it objectively
yes defilers can crit heal for 25K+ now...which is roughly about 1/2 of the lower end morale pools... so about 50% average...roughly about the same as minis can do fairly easily. RKs not quite as much but can still hit them fairly often. Technically this was not a nerf to freeps but a bump to equality on morale to heal ratio. Not saying this is a good thing yet. But that is the initial thought.
You have to look at damage the same way though. Also do not judge directly on crit numbers themselves. If you do that, your argument is already off the table because freeps can crit for 25K. That looks really scary. But then when you look at the fact that a low end creep has 45,000 morale...well a little over 50% of morale. So when you see a 7K revenge...well that is about even in percentages...
Yes your mits got dropped a little...because you were practically capped...leaving no room for any increase for creeps to be more competitive. Tac mits especially. They left tac creep classes in the rear by far. If you are at capped mits, the only thing you can do at that point is sit and pump more morale or DPS into your toon making it nasty strong....with a kick back it mits...now you have to decide if you want to bump your mits more, DPS more, or morale more...dynamic building.
Again...not saying that this is going to work...but it was more of a balance option
Are you still using your same build and rotation as before the update? Have you looked into traits, skill rotations, using more skills, strats, etc? Yes mits were dropped and creeps damage buffed...but one thing I noticed is no one really traited any mits because they were already maxed. Have you explored your options?
Last edited by giboosc; Apr 15 2014 at 06:35 AM.
Having reinstalled the game yesterday to come see what the new patch was like.
I paid 200 TP for 20 mitril coins as I was curious how the scaling works, and took my dorf mincer into the moors. WHat annoyed me most was that the 6 hour pass that cost me 20 of these Mithril coins was for 1 char only.
So all in all I think what will put a lot of people off it the sheer cost of these passes.
As for creeps camping outside GV, well seems that is what always happens the 1st day after a major patch.
You have to consider that a lot of the time its normally newer creep players or the people that will do that anyway and its not like certain freep players don't camp Grams and farm greenies now is it.
I would wait and see how it plays out over the coming months before resigning yourself to the fact its not fair on the 1st day.
Scaling is a joke, no idea how that went live - maybe its just another way to shut creeps up and get all freeps up to cap. Lots of creeps quite happy to camp outside GV yesterday afternoon when it was my hunter, Phak's dwarf (?) and two other squishies - including some creeps who I thought were better than that. That is what shocked me.
In the evening it was understandable. Dunc/Lish obviously had a craid up - although why you need a craid to camp gv is beyond me. There were a fair few freeps there, although they were probably outmatched by the many easymoders on their defilers (yay our class is op now, best class - someone actually said that in creep ooc) - eventually Irmas got a fraid up, we lacked heals and tbh it wasn't well coordinated at all - got a few kills and then disbanded. By the time I logged back to creep to look at gv, obviously some creeps had gotten bored and logged off, only a few left behind.
As to why freeps won't come out of gv = the same reason you won't come out of grams when Kami/Dunc not online. Without someone barking orders at you and coordinated heals people will hide in safety,especially when the other side has a craid up with several wls and defilers....
RIP defiler, you've been made too powerful. A small heal increase on the slimes and a reduction in FR cd would have been enough. Still not as good as a mini ofc, but a wl and defi in a group will take some serious cc and if creepside plays like they played pre U13 I think anyone but the best freep players and leaders are going to have a lot of trouble. Didn't want creepside made easier, wanted it to stay as it was and for creepside to up their game. Now sadly looks like adequacy will do.
My guess is, that too many developers come and leave this game so quickly, that they just dont understand what the game really needs. If the game had stable developing team I guess they would have learned by now, that creating balance is about continuosly doing small adjustments and polishes not doing crazy revamps, buffs and boosts until everyone can outheal nearly everything, constants CC, do one-shots, sprint like crazy, hips like crazy etc..
Considering our warg counted 6 hunters 4 minis and 4 burgs at the time I had a group of 6 , it would have only taken a leader to forge a group capable of forcing the creeps away from GV.Something I do at grams 1 day out of every 2 when I log on .
Do I come here and QQ ..no ..Freeps come to grams because its where the creeps are.
Well guys , you where at GV.
Saying that Im unhappy with the current changes, I only play creep because its a challenge , or was.
Don't expect freeps to raise their game, Withys raid leaders have all left.
Healer wise you had 3 defis, 2 wls at least at one point - so yes we could have done better and got some more kills than we did, but we were never going to win and fighting out of gv would have been difficult.
I understand completely why you were at gv and this is something I said to the fraid. I don't like it when people say 'omg they are grams/gv farming' -> to me its only farming when the other side clearly doesn't have the strength to put up a fight, a lot of times freeps are 'farming grams' they are waiting for a fight and aren't getting one because you/Kami aren't online. Sane last night with freeps, we only formed when Irmas logged. In my eyes you weren't farming. The afternoon creeps were imo though.
6 hunters? Yes, me - scaled hunter, little auda. And at least 2 other no rank squishy hunters, a squishy warden, and some others who struck me as inexperienced and a bit nabbish: we didn't exactly have skilled freeps at our disposal.
Freepside lost leaders? Well they lost Leischo but i don't think that was a great loss at all. They have Dahawk, Irmas and Imi and others who sometimes lead like Mel, Best One. So they have a larger potential pool than creeps who only really have you and Kami.
Can understand you having a group, or small craid of less than 12 in those circumstances. I had no trouble with behaviour of the evening creeps except from perhaps the many defilers. My problem was with the afternoon creeps who were pew pewing gv with me and a few squishies who couldn't put up any fight at all. Was not qqing, I posted to defend creepside and disgaree with Rols ^^
I'm sure freeps with their many skills are capable of putting up a fight, my concern now is that 2 wls in a group is no longer required - and at least, creepside should try and just have one wl per group for now and see how that goes. As I've said before, there are many things creepside are not trying in craid situations - for example we have to shout for webs, spiders won't do it unless told. Half the time reavers are chasing target that isn't slowed at all - which makes no sense when creepside have a lot of slows, included ba hindering shot. Reaver dust not used for full potential either... and I think creepside suffers from a lot of players not playing their class properly (same probably true of freepside too but idk much about that)
Last edited by Akrorgash; Apr 15 2014 at 04:27 PM.
p.s challenge is 1 shotting scalable freeps so lets go
Last edited by da-hawkz; Apr 15 2014 at 06:38 PM.
So whilst I don't think a creep group was required last night, I can understand that Dunc assumed maybe you'd gotten a group together and went to see with his, and when he saw you there, I can appreciate his decision to attack, here's why:
1. He may not have known they were scaled - not sure how they appear to creeps, and its only been a day, can't expect them to recognise buff icon.
2. Creeps may not have grasped quite how pathetic scaled dps is, ofc the scaled freep notices, but would a creep, especially one who has been farming at gv and beeing constantly defi healed to prevent 'freep farming'
3. So, maybe Dunc thought it was you + squishies. Groups of squishies are regularly called out on ooc and killed. I have killed groups of them myself - but I've only done so when i thought there were enough freeps and not too many creeps, that the freeps at least had a chance to kill me or creeps with me. I don't know how many dunc had in his group, i dont know what classes and how many you had hawk - but it may have appeared to dunc, if they had been lvl 95 and not scaled, that they could put up a fight. I don't know, I wasn't there. Only you can decide that.
4. Pvp is warzone, therefore:
5. You can't expect on such a dead day as yesterday was, that creeps will be so merciful.
So to me, its not as unreasonable in the same way zerging a solo freep is - which ofc, I won't defend Dunc for - he knows he does it, but also to his credit, sometimes he will ask for that freep to be left alone, varies on his mood I guess.
So hawk, you are telling me that if up13 had been reversed, and it was weak creeps at grams, and weak creeps taking an op, and you with a freep group of your friends, hungry for action - you are telling me you would let them live? Different for you maybe, you can log off and do a skrim or something, dunc is perma on creepside - he either plays his creep or he logs out, and presumably he really enjoys this game, so doesn't want to do that. I think you would have done the same he did, and tbh, i think I would have done as well, (if action had been awful that day, AND if I didn't know how bad scaled freeps were/didn't know they were scaled) - but i wouldn't have taken the op - but if your buddy says he needs it for the quest, ofc you will take it Friends come before enemies, even for people like me who try their best to be objective and nice to the other side.
And also, no reason to take the op. I would say Dunc is not alone in that creepside are very focused on points rather than the overall picture of both sides - same could be said of freepside, like i said, I don't know - infact I have heard freeps say similar things - its always the creeps fault for overstacking/same with creeps saying that about freeps, sometimes its true ofc, but sometimes ive heard people say things and thought 'hmmmm, thats the freep/creep goggles talking' I almost wish I could wear creep goggles, i'd sure feel a lot happier when playing if I cared a lot less. I'd say its only really me and Thro that actively think about things and are concerned with overall pvp picture - creepside at least.
Oh, and props to you for helping the newbies out. I have seen new creeps get laughed at recently, and nobody apart from me seems to bother about telling them how to turn voice on/turn rat on. Similarly yesterday, the new freeps were being ignored mainly and also, an rk there wasn't healing the newbies freeps dying around him/her - at least creepside (usuallly) heals everyone they see who needs a heal
Blame Turbine for implementing such a stupid scaling system.
Last edited by Akrorgash; Apr 15 2014 at 07:05 PM.
Don't think its only just freep leaders that left moors. We have only a few creep leaders here too from RoR.
Dunc why not come and see what happened on cappy and run some skraids if no freeps around for fights ?
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