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  1. #1
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    How to Pown as a Warleader

    Hello guys,

    I haven't saw such a thread about the warleader, so here is a little guide for our dear Warleaders :

    > 1 Getting Started

    Reasons to choose War-Leaders :
    - You are an uruk, and that's awesome.
    - You shout at people with red eyes, and that's awesome.
    - You will have many, many friends among creeps, and that's awesome.
    - Freeps will hate you, and that's awesome.

    Problems as War-Leaders :
    - Freeps will target you first all time.
    - Solo, you're like a captain, you can do a bit, but you won't shine, and you won't make the others shine. If you're a solo roamer, it might be not the most suitable class.


    2 Corruptions :
    Few things to know about corruptions :
    - Critical defense is useless (numbers are to low compared to crit chance of the freeps)
    - Tactical/physical mitigation is useless ( It will gimp yourself, see above)
    - Resistance, Morale is useless (see above)
    - Dmg, masteries is GOOD :
    Masteries don't only Boost your damage, it also boost your HEALS ! And that's what you are, a healer. You want to heal your group well, and you want to heal yourself well !
    The dmg for x tier 2 is better than a mastery. But a mastery is bette than damage for x t1.
    I suggest you to slot 4 masteries, 1 Dmg for power t2, 1 morale for power t2.
    I said morale was useless? It is indeed, but with this set-up, you'll run at around 16k morale. If you slot damage for morale t2, you will be at 13k morale. The main problem it occurs is that freep will target you more if you are low morale. So it's a psychological advantag to not be to low morale as freeps tend to TAB till they find something with low morale.
    You can also choose to run with 19k morale... But i really don't like it as your heals are very, very low. I made some test against a burglar, he needed to do more dmg to kill me on 14k morale than on 19k morale, because my heals was more effective.

    3 Racial traits
    Everything exept tireless warrior (300icpr, icmr) and Favoured servant of the dark (200 all mitigations)

    4 Class traits :

    Solo :
    -Empowering (more heals, more dps)
    -Damage boost (more dps, don't affect heals)
    -Harsh Language ( Obviously, never remove it)
    -Enhance Black speech (every little help on dps is welcome)
    -Purge ( Obviously, never remove it)
    -Power of fear (obviously...)
    -Enhance QnW (obviously...)

    Grouping :
    I remove empowering, dmg boost, and black speach and put :
    - Improve bubble (obvious)
    - Improve rez (NEVER use your rez without it being prove, and never join a group/raid without it sloted)
    - Lead the charge (The banner of Horror is your best friends to help your group do + 5% dmg + banner for 3%)

    Now your geared UP. You can go and kick some &&&.

    Freep class you can kill solo (you can, it's not 100%):
    -Champions, Burglars, hunters, runekeepers (bad ones), guardians, Lore-master

    Freep class you better run, run, run away !
    - Minstrels, Captains, Wardens,
    This 3 classes can selfheal more than what we can damage. It's simple math, it will never die.

    Champions tips :
    Basicly, you need to outheal their dps, and slowly kill them.
    - Don't waste your 100% crit. Use it with intimidation shout when they use the first bubble, and kite. If they pop sprint, pop purge (to not be mazed and kite all around). Very good champs will be luck relative, if you keep crit, you'll heal a lot and you're dps will be good, if you don't and they do, you're dead.

    Burglars tips :
    - If you want to be mean, use banner of terror and they don't have enough power to kill you. If you're a brave warrior and you know the burg is around ready to attack in stealth, pop Horror. Burgs are kinda easy, slow them, kite them but never showing your back to them, dps them as much as you can, when you hit about 3k morale, switch to commander stance, use get a grip and QnW, switch back to brawler, you should be at 13k-15k morale and the burg dispressed.
    - Don't use Purge on first stun (the Diminushin return won't apply and the morale cost of purge will be same than the burg attacks). Use it in midfight whenever you manage to get a lucky crit on intishout (slow) to make some space between you and the burg, heal up with quit whining and fight and shout from 20 meters.

    -Hunters : Nuke as fast as possible and heal up, shouldn't be to hard.

    -Runekeepers : If they good and selfheals, you'll do no dps, if they don't, nuke as fast as you can, use purge after their 5th attack (it's the moment they are gonna try stun you).

    -Guardians : You should be able to outheal their dps, it's just gonna be long to kill them, but nothing hard.

    -Lore master : If they use a raven (like 90% of them). Kill the raven first !!!!
    It seems idiot, but it's the only way i can kill our best LMs. They got nice tactical miti usually, and we dps them very slowly. Killing the bird will :
    - Surprise the lm
    - Remove 1500 tactical mitigations to the lm
    - The lm can no longer heal up by flank (a big pain for us, as we dps very slowly)
    - The raven can no longer interupt you, so you can switch commander to heal up anytime, especially when DR did his work after 1 or 2 mins of combat

    5 Group Fighting !

    Here, your best friend is your experience, each fight is different so it's hard to make a guide, but i can give few tips :
    - Always start a fight in brawler, send some shouts, and swith to commander after (so the cds on shout is not long yet)
    - Never start a fight with shadow of fear. You are not a dps. Keep this shadow for using Instant Heals when needed.
    - Power of fear can provide two instant heals : Get the fear proc, target your friend, yourself, or anything that is not an ennemy or a mob, use your heal (instant) and put in skill queue another heal, if you don't move at the exact moment the second one is launching, it will be instant aswell. I suggest you to practive on dummy : Shout dummy, untarget it, use Quit whining and fight, crack the whip. After, repeat it and try move between the two heals.
    - MOVING ! During a fight you always need to move and kite. When to much are on you, use your shouts to get instant heals. Don't waste this shouts to try do some dmg, it's not your role.
    - Don't waste Purge to remove a simple stun, use it to :
    Pass threw a tar like it's nothing.
    Remove an aoe mini slow when charging.
    Pass threw the melee (and aoe champ horn) to get the squishy at the back of the raid when your raid leader scream to push !


    Sry if this is full of typo and bad english, i think it's still better than nothing.
    I'm at your disposal to answer any question you may have.
    Thx for reading.
    Last edited by korig; Oct 02 2012 at 10:15 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e010000142303/signature.png]Koriburz[/charsig]

  2. #2
    Good information in there! Glad someone took the time to put this up on the forums. However I do have one question, if you dont use Tireless Warrior what do you use in its place? I find Tireless Warrior to be extremely helpful.
    [I][b][center][color=red]Overlord Gothnon [/color][/center][/b][/I] [I][b][center][color=yellow]Brandywine[/color][/center][/b][/I]

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazything View Post
    Good information in there! Glad someone took the time to put this up on the forums. However I do have one question, if you dont use Tireless Warrior what do you use in its place? I find Tireless Warrior to be extremely helpful.
    You are right, i did a mistake, there is 7 racials and only 5 slots.
    As i didin't even bought the 200 phy miti and 200 tactical miti from trainer, i see only 6 at my bard.

    To make it clear i use :
    -Get a grip
    -New breed
    -Imposing Presence
    -Leaders of the orcs
    -Brutal persuasion

    4 of them are indeed better than others. So it's or :
    -200 mitigations
    -300 Mastery
    -300 Icpr/icmr

    As 200 mitigation = nothing, i go for mastery (every little more healing helps !).
    I don't use tireless warrior cause i never end out of power (with rain of coms you should have more power pots than necessary, if you start using them early, you shouldn't have any problem). And icmr is worse than 300 mastery in few heals over a minute.

    Thanks for kind words.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e010000142303/signature.png]Koriburz[/charsig]

  4. #4
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    Why recommend people away from mitigations?

    In my experience, when used in conjunction with an armour pot, mitigations becomes invaluable in a lot of scenario's.

    This would include:

    Tanking - Warleaders primary role is to, as orion once said tank and support (in terms of buffing). This offshoots into NPC management, as well as being an invaluable target to a group of freeps.
    Fighting heavy DPSers such as red-line captains, wardens, champions, burgs and lightning runekeepers.

    Obviously that's more group orientated, however for me it also works very well solo. Warleaders for me have just not seem to cut it with damage output since isengard, more especially since audacity. Because of the padded mitigations and majority of enemy utility, I find that becoming squishier for such a subtle damage improvement isn't worth it.

    My warleader is only rank 8, and has been sitting at that rank for a long long long long (you get the idea) time, but I look forward to hearing back from you.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Why recommend people away from mitigations?

    In my experience, when used in conjunction with an armour pot, mitigations becomes invaluable in a lot of scenario's.

    This would include:

    Tanking - Warleaders primary role is to, as orion once said tank and support (in terms of buffing). This offshoots into NPC management, as well as being an invaluable target to a group of freeps.
    Fighting heavy DPSers such as red-line captains, wardens, champions, burgs and lightning runekeepers.

    Obviously that's more group orientated, however for me it also works very well solo. Warleaders for me have just not seem to cut it with damage output since isengard, more especially since audacity. Because of the padded mitigations and majority of enemy utility, I find that becoming squishier for such a subtle damage improvement isn't worth it.

    My warleader is only rank 8, and has been sitting at that rank for a long long long long (you get the idea) time, but I look forward to hearing back from you.
    hey m8.
    i recommend to not use mitigations corruptions (for WL only) for the following reasons :

    -WLs got very low mitigations (about 36% tact). If you use 6 tactical miti corrs, you'll get around 45%.

    Without mastery and damage corrs, you're gonna lose about 15% damage and healing.
    15% healing + 15% damage > 10% mitigations in my book.

    If you solo : You want your opponent to die as fast as possible, so he does less damage than if he stay alive longer (common sense) so killing him 15% faster, will save you 15% damage take in your face. If you add to this you are healing yourself 15% better, it's a total win.
    Note also that Warleader dps is so low, we need to be sure to bypass the healing of our opponent. If a runekeeper is self healing 100 morale per second. We need or damage per second to be 101 or his morale is never gonna move .


    Group wise : if you trait for yourself (miti, morale, anything) you're doing it wrong as you are a heal, you need to trait for heals.
    If you are on freep RAT you are or bubble, or focus healed by some creep healers, or dead. But some morale or 9% miti won't help you at all.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e010000142303/signature.png]Koriburz[/charsig]

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by korig View Post
    hey m8.
    i recommend to not use mitigations corruptions (for WL only) for the following reasons :

    -WLs got very low mitigations (about 36% tact). If you use 6 tactical miti corrs, you'll get around 45%.

    Without mastery and damage corrs, you're gonna lose about 15% damage and healing.
    15% healing + 15% damage > 10% mitigations in my book.

    If you solo : You want your opponent to die as fast as possible, so he does less damage than if he stay alive longer (common sense) so killing him 15% faster, will save you 15% damage take in your face. If you add to this you are healing yourself 15% better, it's a total win.
    Note also that Warleader dps is so low, we need to be sure to bypass the healing of our opponent. If a runekeeper is self healing 100 morale per second. We need or damage per second to be 101 or his morale is never gonna move .


    Group wise : if you trait for yourself (miti, morale, anything) you're doing it wrong as you are a heal, you need to trait for heals.
    If you are on freep RAT you are or bubble, or focus healed by some creep healers, or dead. But some morale or 9% miti won't help you at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion
    On the battlefield, the Warleader shines as a warrior on the front line and inspiration to his allies. Through mocking, humiliation and force of will, the Warleader can inspire the meekest of troops to greatness. His fearsome howls augment his strong arm and shield to make his blows all the more deadly.

    Primary Role: Tank, Buff
    Secondary Role: Rabble-rousing (Healing)
    Even with the game and class changes since that point, I still don't think this is out-dated information. Whether or not you believe the same is different I suppose. Have at it either way, I'm not here to challenge you on the warleader, you obviously have more experience than I do.

    I guess I'll have to log back in my warleader and take it for a spin. My last exclusive testing was telling me survivability (perhaps at least for me?) was doing a lot better than damage focused builds. But I'll rerun it.

    Thanks for the info.

  7. #7
    Yeah I completely agree with Koriburz here. I run 3 Health Corruptions along with Damage for Power 2 and 2 Masteries. Mitigations arent worth slotting for WL's because of the decrease in healing. For other classes like Spider/Warg/Reaver mitigations are the way to go
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Even with the game and class changes since that point, I still don't think this is out-dated information. Whether or not you believe the same is different I suppose. Have at it either way, I'm not here to challenge you on the warleader, you obviously have more experience than I do.

    I guess I'll have to log back in my warleader and take it for a spin. My last exclusive testing was telling me survivability (perhaps at least for me?) was doing a lot better than damage focused builds. But I'll rerun it.

    Thanks for the info.
    Orion is funny buddy, but Tank is not something that exist on ettenmoors.
    We have no aggro skills to tell the freeps to attack us and not the squishy shadow warg !
    Buffer? it's an aura, so not really anything to do exept plant a banner.

    Don't forget traiting damage improve your heals ! That's the key.
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  9. #9
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    I disagree on corruptions in terms of morale. I trait full morale, but, knowing it reduces my healing, I also put in damage for power T2 and a mastery trait to get as much extra healing in there as possible while still maintaining 19.4k morale. I agree that the other traits are indeed useless.

    I disagree on solo setup. I think LTC is very helpful solo because it can be very effective if a warden needs to die or a burg attacks you when you're unprepared. Damage boost trait, I think, is not worth traiting.

    I firmly agree with your guide on defeating champs. Every time I fought one that was good, kiting has been the road to victory. You're also right about RKs, good ones are a no-go but bad ones are a relatively easy fight. Burgs are a nearly assured win for high rank WLs who know what they're doing. Lrms are also beatable, quite beatable, but good ones can be a chalenge.

    One thing to note, however, is that there really is no 'best' corruption line for WLs. There is major difference in opinion between WLs in how to trait in corruptions, and both morale and non-morale builds have their merits.

  10. #10
    I generally always keep Lead the Charge traited unless Im going to a set up 1v1 circle or something like that, in that case I switch it out for Shield Mastery.
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  11. #11
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    This guide does come at a bad time, considering most existing information on classes will have to be largely revised when RoR is released.

  12. #12
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    I agree with the crit defense, I used to trait them as my last 2 corruptions but freeps can stack too much crit which makes the corruption almost useless.

    Tireless warrior however I think takes a better slot over Leader of the Orcs and when combined with Empowering means your not gonna run out of power even with an abundance of power pots around.

    Also your power of fear tip is nice but a warning about it, Make sure your not in brawlers stance when you attempt it with quit whining and fight as it is instant anyway.

    And following the update...

    Lead the charge will become more viable since banners wont share a CD.

    Health corruptions should look more appealing to Warleaders as creeps in general gain an incoming healing modifier for every rank of battlefield promotion which means better heals. (Unless the mastery boost scaling provides a significant increase in healing, not just 100-250 on heals)

    DPS should be slightly higher if you get a good rotation with the new skill going but it will require sacrifice of a trait slot for Improved Menacing Roar to get a lower cooldown.
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  13. #13
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    Cheers for the guide I may not agree with everything, but most of that is just personal preference.

    One question though, any reason why you'd run away from a cappy? I find cappies to be one of the easiest classes to beat as a creep, arguably -the- easiest class. I'd much rather run away from a champ or rk :P
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    This guide does come at a bad time, considering most existing information on classes will have to be largely revised when RoR is released.
    This ^^

    Considering how the game will change in two weeks, you will need to renew the how to fight vs freep classes.

    Overall nice guide kori.
    Last edited by Yelloweyedemon; Oct 03 2012 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Because i could!
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calminayon View Post
    Cheers for the guide I may not agree with everything, but most of that is just personal preference.

    One question though, any reason why you'd run away from a cappy? I find cappies to be one of the easiest classes to beat as a creep, arguably -the- easiest class. I'd much rather run away from a champ or rk :P
    If you find a good cappy, as a warleader you'll most likely be running.

    I guess I'd like to discuss some things and get your higher ranked warleaders input, but I guess this isn't the place?

  16. #16
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    I disagree on the topic of captains. I have defeated bad-average cappies with ease on my WL. I have defeated average-good cappies with a little bit of a struggle. I do not consider them a class we should immediately flee from.

    However, if you encounter a very good cappy, you will either lose, or be faced with a never-ending battle. I fought a good cappy with good power regen and the fight lasted half an hour before we called it a draw.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I disagree on the topic of captains. I have defeated bad-average cappies with ease on my WL. I have defeated average-good cappies with a little bit of a struggle. I do not consider them a class we should immediately flee from.

    However, if you encounter a very good cappy, you will either lose, or be faced with a never-ending battle. I fought a good cappy with good power regen and the fight lasted half an hour before we called it a draw.
    Brusef, a red line captain on my server has average 1v1 times of 5 minutes with my warleader. That's with me traited full physical mitigations exempting two health. Any other corruption setup by my careful eye on combat analysis puts the fight in his favour, and ends the fight noticeably earlier. I have to use morale and power pots every time they are up as effectively as possible.

    I need to use QnW, Uruk Heal and banner of terror, as well as my buff banner, I have to use the melee DPS aura so that my auto-attacks actually take off damage instead of being a knat for his muster courage heal to swat away. He is the hardest hitting captain on the server, and uses revealing mark. He has near cap mitigations for a heavy class, and stacks a considerable amount of crit. He doesn't have power problems because of his crit chance on DS, and if he did, he could power pot (He uses no consumables when he fights me). He doesn't have to use last stand or man heal.

    With all of this, he generally ends at 400-800 morale as the victor, unless he crits for a rally cry at the end, leaving him with over 3k morale normally.

    My movement is as good as I can get it on my warleader, or close to.

    Have any of you faced an opponent like this before? If so, are there any tips or strategies you could offer me?

    Just for reference, I have not fought him in awhile.

    This might sound vague, but if there's any questions about the scenario's I can help you with, I shall.
    Last edited by Untg99; Oct 03 2012 at 03:02 PM.

  18. #18
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    Well, I have never carefully analysed a fight with a captain, but I think that this is one scenario where a traited QNW would be excellent. It would mean you never run out of power or morale.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Well, I have never carefully analysed a fight with a captain, but I think that this is one scenario where a traited QNW would be excellent. It would mean you never run out of power or morale.
    Overall fight time lasts around 5 minutes, I usually have to save QnW anywhere between 40 seconds to 2 minutes (interchangeable with uruk heal, dependant on whether or not I crit my shouts if they don't happen to resist).

    I might be able to post a video or some CA numbers next time I convince him to 1v1 me.

  20. #20
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    Why not bother fight a captain?

    i don't know about the cappys you use to fight, but on my server, they understood since long ago than 15% return morale mark + muster courage heals + nice mitigation + r8 banner = Lot more heals than the warleader dps output.

    After like 2-3 minutes, the cappy is at full morale, with about 1.5k power. I'm at 10k morale, with about 1.5k power aswell, all i can do is switch to commander, QnW, and spam heals to get enough QnW to keep my power over 1k morale so when the captain is bored, we call it a draw.

    We don't use power/morale pot on my server, and that would advantage lot more the cappy anyway.

    If, as a wl, you can damage a captain more than he can selfheal, he is doing something really wrong, or need to work on gear. And arguements like "me i can do it" would be crazy, not like the warleader have a complicated dps rotation !!

    @constriction : If the cappy you fight use dmg mark, and stack crits and might (and don't have high tacti miti then). You should trait full mastery/dmg (on a long fight, your heals will be more effective than a bit of mitigation, and indeed, your dmg will be higher.

    When you drop below 5k morale, switch to commander, full heal (he can interupt you only once a minute), rinse, and repeat, if he doesn't switch his mark, he is dead.
    Last edited by korig; Oct 03 2012 at 08:25 PM.
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by korig View Post
    - You shout at people with red eyes, and that's awesome.
    There's a guy that lives downtown that does that and it is not awesome.

    +rep for guide.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    There's a guy that lives downtown that does that and it is not awesome.
    Rofl! + rep to you.
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  23. #23
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    i personally run with 6 crit protection, and it puts me at around 19% crit hit avoidance,

    reasoning: our heals are perfectly fine to deal with most freeps non critical hits, its the chained 2-5k crits that usually do the most harm, and after a good bit of combat analysis testing and just general palytime with the setup i prefer it atm over all others, in testing it gave better incoming dmg reduction than both mitigation types, and the dmg decrease i was taking was higher than the +16% outgoing healing u get from full mastery/empowered.

    tho i usually run with the mindset of, its not how much you can hit for its how much u can get hit for and still win.

    it rlly brightense my day when a burg with max crit and dev moors set, flips and wonders why they only got 10 crits/devs on me the entire 2-3m fight and its the same for hunters, any class that relys on crits will be gimped by this setup when fighting you, especially cappys cus they will get very very little defeat events, might solve some *run when u see a cappy felling* (which i never got 0.o)

    as for your run from classes, only a warden with spearlords set who knows how to spam the incoming heal debuff or a good rk i rlly think should not bother being fought, for minis just switch to commanders stance and sit there and outheal them, cappys, might just be my server but ive had rlly no threat from them in a long while.

    idk why after reading this i feel like i my setup seems strange XD

    very nice guide, i always love listening/reading how wls from other servers play, always feels like i learn something each time

    P.S. Cant wait for SHIELD BASH!!!!!!!
    crygin-R11 Warleader, dwarrowdelf

  24. #24
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    Always nice to see another Warleader thread.

    I play my Warleader quite a bit differently but I do agree with many of your points.

    1) I find traiting some morale is useful in groups. I go for an even split on damage and Morale with my corruptions. Still leaves me lower than most other Warleaders on my server but the extra buffer does keep the freeps on me longer and gives other healers more time to react and get of a timely Blessing of Darkness or Field Promotion.

    2) Traits. I'm not a fan of Purge and I doubt I ever will be. Empowering was nice, but I switched to using Tireless Warrior and that let's me free up that slot on my Class traits bar.

    My class traits are: Improved Rez, Improved Bubble, Shield Mastery, Avoidance Boost, Lead the Charge, Power of Fear, and Harsh Language. When I want to get meaner with my soloing I drop the improved skills and grab Damage boost and Empowering.

    3) You seem to focus on kiting, shouting, and Brawlers Stance as your soloing strategy. I prefer to focus on a more melee intensive style where I tend to move in circles either around my opponent or around my Command Post. I also use Commander's Stance against certain opponents, most notably Champions. It's very effective as long as you know what you're doing and remember to keep facing them and move to throw them off.

    I must completely disagree with your assessment against Captains as it is just flat out wrong. Utilize Commander's Stance and Banner of Terror and you WILL run them out of power. Once the captain's power pool dries up it's easy enough to clean up. Also, Wardens aren't a problem either, just a stalemate (same for minstrels, unless they fail to properly manage their power). Again this is because I will use Commander's Stance.

    Still, an interesting look at a different way to play the class and I think I'll have to try some of it out for myself.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a01000017ae5d/signature.png]Ugmog[/charsig]

    Co-host and editor of [URL=www.throughthepalantir.blogspot.com]Through the Palantir[/URL].

  25. #25
    When you update it for RoR, I recommend you integrate it with the Monster Manual here

    http://dailystats.theblackappendage.c om/content/warleader

 

 
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