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  1. #1

    Some clarification and/or help, please.. :)

    Okay...either I've just been staring at this too long and am missing something or I misunderstand something that's likely so simple I could slap myself.

    Anyway, I converted a song from sheet music into .abc format a couple of years ago and it came out great ingame. This time when I'm trying to convert another song, I can't seem to "get it".

    The timing on the song per the sheet music is "common", i.e., 4/4. (though there are a couple of scores that change to 2/4). The most common note is a 1/16 th note.


    Using the 'C' note as an example - in the written .abc file -:

    1/16 would simply be typed as C
    1/8 would be C2
    1/4 would be C4
    1/2 would be C8
    and a whole note would be C10

    Is this correct?

    Also, the total count of the score has to be 4 counts for the file not to throw an error. Correct?

    So, if I have the following score:



    I would type it as so? (combining the bass notes into the chords above them)

    [z2 F,8] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] [z2 F,8] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] |

    Then for another score:



    I would type it as so? (again, combining the bass notes with the upper ones) - note I transposed the lower base notes,, an octave higher.

    [z2B,4] [D2F,4] E2 [F2D2] G2 [A2G2] d2 [c4A4] [A2F4] B2 [c8C4] F4 |

    And, finally.... (sorry)



    This is the score that changes timing to 2/4. I'm not sure how to write this one or if the timing CAN be changed and work properly in an .abc file.

    Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. I love this song and would love to be able to play it ingame.

    Thanks, bunches!

    -Goldrush
    *******

  2. #2
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    I won't call myself an ABC expert but here goes ...
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldrushSE View Post
    The timing on the song per the sheet music is "common", i.e., 4/4. (though there are a couple of scores that change to 2/4). The most common note is a 1/16 th note.


    Using the 'C' note as an example - in the written .abc file -:

    1/16 would simply be typed as C
    1/8 would be C2
    1/4 would be C4
    1/2 would be C8
    and a whole note would be C10

    Is this correct?
    It could be correct hehe ... it depends on the "L: [x]" header line that defines the count basis. Your example is correct assuming you use the header line "L: 1/16". EXCEPT for the whole note, that one lasts 16 clicks (C16). I think you just made a calculation error with the whole note.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldrushSE View Post
    Also, the total count of the score has to be 4 counts for the file not to throw an error. Correct?
    I don't think so. The LOTRO ABC interpreter doesn't use the "M: [x]" header field, or gets it wrong occasionally. It probably won't throw any error. But it's not nice notation to make measures that don't add up.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldrushSE View Post
    So, if I have the following score:



    I would type it as so? (combining the bass notes into the chords above them)

    [z2 F,8] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] [z2 F,8] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] |
    Not really. Those chords will play one at a time which is not what you aim for.
    You can use ties however:
    F,2- [F,2-A2F2] [F,2-c2A2] [F,2A2F2] ... and so forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldrushSE View Post
    Then for another score:



    I would type it as so? (again, combining the bass notes with the upper ones) - note I transposed the lower base notes,, an octave higher.

    [z2B,4] [D2F,4] E2 [F2D2] G2 [A2G2] d2 [c4A4] [A2F4] B2 [c8C4] F4 |
    I think you can figure that one out for yourself using abovementioned method with ties.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldrushSE View Post
    And, finally.... (sorry)



    This is the score that changes timing to 2/4. I'm not sure how to write this one or if the timing CAN be changed and work properly in an .abc file.
    LOTRO ABC doesn't support changing time (or tempo), sadly. You will have to write the 2/4 part in common time (2 bars of 2/4 per bar of 4/4).

    Hope this helps a bit, if you need some clarifications just ask!
    Last edited by Phede; Sep 22 2012 at 06:17 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Lotro also ignores barlines and doesn't account for any notes or rests that might have been missed being put into the ABC notation (which can really screw up parts that are to be played in sync ). Basically it doesn't care if there's the correct number of beats, which can work out for certain situations with metre changes. Where you have the change from 4/4 to 2/4 you may be able to just use the same note lengths/durations as you did for the 4/4 section.
    Lasswen -Elendilmir Hunter
    ~The wind is full of a thousand voices~
    No Whole Bard

  4. #4
    Hello Goldrush,

    the number behind the note is the multiplier based on the value of the L header field (default note length).
    So, as Phede already stated, the answer to your first question is yes if you specify 1/16 as the default note length, except for the whole note. If 10 is not a typo then you probably assume a hexadecimal base for these values. This is not the case, ABC uses decimal values.

    Your first transcription is correct, but it will sound different than it does in game in almost any ABC player except for Digero's tool. If you use the notation Phede suggested it will (should) sound the same in all players.

    In your second transcription I see 16th in the screenshot that you transcribe as 8th and 8th you transcribe as quarter notes.
    The correct transcription would be:
    [z2B,2] [DF,2] E [FD2] G [AB,2] d [c2A,2] [AF,2] B [c4C2] F,2

    As for the timing with changing meters I'm not sure. Lotro does interpret the M header field but I don't think that it interprets multiple occurences in the same piece, so you should be perfectly fine with just transcribing away as if there were no meter change. Feedback on your findings with multiple M fields appreciated.

  5. #5
    Thanks for all the replies..

    That '10' was a typo... sorry.. as were the incorrectly entered notes you mentioned. Like I said, I'd been staring at it far too long.. ::laughs::

    Anyway, that first example, even with the 'ties' sounded odd so, instead, I typed it as follows:

    [z2F,2]([A2F2][c2A2][A2F2])[z2F,8]([A2F2][c2A2][A2F2]) |

    And it sounds perfect. I wasn't sure if ( ) would work, but was glad it does.

    For that third example, I typed it:

    ([B2G,2][A2D,2][G2C,2][C2C,2]) |

    I just didn't worry that there were only the four notes and it works when entered that way.

    Now, I just have to type out the remaining 50 scores... ::laughs::

    Thanks, again. When I run into any other problems (note, I said 'when' because I don't expect I won't) I'm sure I'll be posting here again in this thread.

    -Goldrush
    *******

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldrushSE View Post
    Anyway, that first example, even with the 'ties' sounded odd so, instead, I typed it as follows:

    [z2F,2]([A2F2][c2A2][A2F2])[z2F,8]([A2F2][c2A2][A2F2]) |

    And it sounds perfect. I wasn't sure if ( ) would work, but was glad it does.
    In that case "perfect" is not equal to "correct", sorry to say.

    Maybe it doesn't sound "wrong" on a lute or harp (because note duration doesn't really matter on those, they are "fire and forget"), but try playing it on a wind instrument. In the first half of the bar you won't have the sustained bass half note F below the melody notes, it will only play as an eigth note. Actually I suspect that first chord is just a typo of yours because you nailed the second half! Just change it to [z2F,8], like in the second half, and everything will be fine and dandy.

    In my humble opinion; never use a LOTRO plucked instrument for "proofreading" music, you will have no idea if note durations are correct. Bagpipe rocks!

    I am amazed that the second half of the bar plays correctly but it certainly does, at least in ABC player. I thought ABC "chords" played one at a time, but apparently that isn't so. The [z2F,8] only has 1/8 "to itself", then for the remaining 3/8 it plays "F," below the next three chords.

    In some ways this notation format is easier to sightread and more in sync with the standard notation "picture" than what I suggested.

    Thank you very much for teaching me that trick Goldrush and Shahn! Live and learn ...

    Apparently I had gotten too used to my own ways, making "vertical chunks" and tying them together. Which by the way will play correctly if you do it right, don't know what you did to make it sound odd.

    I should have paid more attention to what is written in the "Chords and Unisons" part of the ABC notation specification, particularly this paragraph: "All the notes within a chord should normally have the same length, but if not, the chord duration is that of the first note."

    Oh, and just for the sake of splitting hairs (like any good music teacher should): The last 8th note in your third example should not be the chord [C2C,2] it should be unison C2.
    Last edited by Phede; Sep 24 2012 at 11:14 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerBarde View Post
    As for the timing with changing meters I'm not sure. Lotro does interpret the M header field but I don't think that it interprets multiple occurences in the same piece, so you should be perfectly fine with just transcribing away as if there were no meter change. Feedback on your findings with multiple M fields appreciated.
    If I recall correctly LOTRO throws a fit if you use multiple M fields.

    I use the non-LOTRO-specific midi2abc as my converter tool, and that one transcribes MIDI time signature changes as multiple M fields.

    But when I made a transcription of Jethro Tull's "Songs from the Wood" which has lots of meter changes it wouldn't play. I had to rebar the MIDI in 4/4 throughout the song. Totally unreadable but plays fine.
    Last edited by Phede; Sep 24 2012 at 07:40 AM.
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  8. #8
    @Phede

    I discovered the reason it sounded 'odd' is because I /did/ forget to change that first F,2 back to F,8. When I fixed that, it sounds right.

    I do admit I haven't tried either of the two songs (the one I did a couple years ago and the one I'm working on now) with anything but a harp. I just love the way harps sound and since I've only ever played for my own enjoyment or when a friend wanted to hear a song, I don't play other instruments. Although, I did play "Once Upon A December" on a flute, once. It was really whiney and hurt my ears so I stopped midway through it.. ::laughs::

    I'll try this song on other instruments, anyway, just to see how they sound since I'm curious now.

    As for your mention of that last example [C2C,2], how do you write "unison C2"? Do you just type it that way? C2? Will you still hear both octaves? Thanks!

    -Goldrush
    *******

  9. #9
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    Just write "C2".

    It's how it's written in the notes, one note (the parenthesis around the G clef C are there to prevent your right and left thumb fighting for the same note lol).

    Keep up the good work! There are too few people making ABC's from sheet music!
    Last edited by Phede; Sep 24 2012 at 01:55 PM.
    [LEFT][SIZE=1][color=#BFBFBF][I]Phede's mini minnie army: [/I][color=#FFFFFF]Phedelene[/color], [color=#FFFFFF]Netteellen[/color], [color=#FFFFFF]Ledepeter[/color][I] and [/I][color=#FFFFFF]Amorph[/color].
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    [color=#FFFFFF][SIZE=2][FONT=Times New Roman]FOR THE SAKE OF PRISONERS AND THE FLIGHT OF BIRDS.[/FONT][/SIZE][/color]
    [/LEFT]

  10. #10
    Well, I finally managed to get it all transcribed into an .abc file. And, the song does play. But, the timing on some of the notes is a bit 'off' and I can't, for the life of me, figure out what's wrong with it.

    I had it posted here but after playing the entire song, it's just embarassing how off it sounds. So, I'm going to keep working on it and see where I have timing written incorrectly and see if I can fix the blasted thing... ::laughs::

    -Goldrush
    *******
    Last edited by GoldrushSE; Sep 30 2012 at 02:09 AM.

  11. #11
    I think I finally have it -- even though there does still seem to be a few miliseconds skips during the first few lines. Once it gets going it sounds fairly decent, I think. Anyway, here it is, if anyone wants to give it a try. I played it on the harp, but am going to try other instruments as well.

    It's called "Les Derniers Jours D'Anastasia" (or, Can You Hear My Heart -- in a Korean Drama) by Paul DeSenneville & Jean Baudlot.

    If anyone can figure out why those first few lines skip a bit, I'd appreciate it.

    Code:
    X: 1
    T: CanYouHear
    M: 4/4
    L: 1/16
    Q: 1/4=60
    K: F
    
    [z2F,2] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] [z2F,2] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] |
    [z2F,2] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] [z2F,2] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] |
    [z2F,2] [AC,2]B [cA,2]B[AC,2]F [G2E,2] [cC,] [G3G,3] E,2 |
    [z2D,2] [FA,2]G [AF,2]G[FD,2]G E2 E,2 C2 A,2 |
    [z2B,2] [DF,2]E [FD2]G[AB,2]D [C2A,2][AF,2]B [c2C2] F,2 |
    [B2G,2] [A2D,2] [G2B,2] [F2G,2] [A2B,2] D2 [G2C,] C2 |
    [z2F,2] [AC,2]B [cA,2]B[AC,2]F [G2E,2] [cC,] [G3G,3] E,2 |
    [z2D,2] [FA,2] G [AF,2] G [FD,2] G E2 E,2 C2 A,2 |
    [z2B,2] [DF,2]E [FD2]G[AB,2]D [C2A,2][AF,2]B [c2C2] F,2 |
    [B2G2] [A2D2] [G2C2] C2 |
    [z2F2F,2] [A2F2][c2A2][A2F2] [z2F,2] [A2F2][c2A2][A2F2] |
    [z2F2F,2] [A2F2][c2A2][A2F2] [z2F,2] [A2F2][c2A2][A2F2] |
    [z2F2] [aC,2] b [c'A,2] b [aC,2] f [g2E,2]G, [c'C] [gG] C G, E, |
    [z2D,2] [fA,2] g [aF,2] g [fD,2] g [e2A,2]E, A, C E, A, C |
    [z2B,2] [dF,2] e [fD2] g [aB,2] d [c'2A,2] [aF,] [bC] [c'F]C A, F, |
    [b2G,2] [a2D,2] [g2B,2] [f2D,2] [aB,] F, B, [g/D,]a/ [gC,] G, B, C |
    [z2F2] [aC,2] b [c'A,2] b [aC,2] f [g2E,2]G, [c'C] [gG] C G, E, |
    [z2D,2] [fA,2] g [aF,2] g [fD,2] g [e2A,2] E, A, C E, A, C |
    [z2B,2] [dF,2] e [fD2] g [aB,2] d [c'2A,2] [aF,] [bC] [c'F]C A, F |
    [bA,]G, [aB,]D, [gC,]G, [cB,]C [fF,] F, A, C F C A, F, |
    [z2B,2] [dBB,] [ecC] [fdD] [ecC] [dBB,] [fdD] [e2c2A,2] E, [cAA,] [cAE] C A, E, |
    [z2G,2] [BGD,] [cA] [dBB,] [cA] [BGC,] [cA] [AFF,] C, F, A, [zE,] F, A, C |
    [z2D,2] [AFA,2] [BG] [cAE2] [AF] [BGG,2] [cA] [d2G2A,2]A, [cAC] [cAE] A, C E |
    [z2B,2] [dBF,2] [dB] [dBD2] [dB] [fdF,2] [ec] [ecC,] E, B, E C B, G, C, |
    [z2B,2] [fFF,2] [fF] [fFD2] [fF] [aAF,2] [gG] [g2G2A,2]E, [eEA,][eEE] A, C E |
    [z2G,2] [dDD,2] [eE] [fFB,2] [eD] [eDC,2] [fF] [cCF,] C, F, A, [zE,] F, A, C |
    [z2D,2] [AFA,2] [BG] [cAE2] [AF] [BGG,2] [cA] [d2G2A,2]A, [cAC] [cAE] A, C E |
    [z2B,2] [fdF,2] [fd] [fdD2] [fd] [afF,2] [ge] [zge] |
    [zC,B] [Cz] G [EG] [GB] [BC] [cE] |
    [BC] [cE] [eG] [cE] [eG] [gB] [ca] [zf] |
    [z2F,2] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] [z2F,2] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] |
    [z2F,2] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] [z2F,2] [A2F2] [c2A2] [A2F2] |
    [z2F2] [aC,2] b [c'A,2] b [aC,2] f [g2E,2]G, [c'C] [gG] C G, E, |
    [z2D,2] [fA,2] g [aF,2] g [fD,2] g [e2A,2]E, A, C E, A, C |
    [z2B,2] [dF,2] e [fD2] g [aB,2] d [c'2A,2] [aF,] [bC] [c'F]C A, F, |
    [b2G,2] [a2D,2] [g2B,2] [f2D,2] [aB,] F, B, [g/D,]a/ [gC,] G, B, C |
    [z2F2] [aC,2] b [c'A,2] b [aC,2] f [g2E,2]G, [c'C] [gG] C G, E, |
    [z2D,2] [fA,2] g [aF,2] g [fD,2] g [e2A,2]E, A, C E, A, C |
    [z2B,2] [dF,2] e [fD2] g [aB,2] d [c'2A,2] [aF,] [bC] [c'F]C A, F, |
    [bA,]G, [aB,]D, [gC,]G, [cB,]C [fF,] F, A, C F C A, F, |
    [z2B,2] [dBB,] [ecC] [fdD] [ecC] [dBB,] [fdD] [e2c2A,2] E, [cAA,] [cAE] C A, E, |
    [z2G,2] [BGD,2] [cA] [dBB,2] [cA] [BGC,2] [cA] [AFF,] C, F, A, [zE,] F, A, C |
    [z2D,2] [AFA,2] [BG] [cAE2] [AF] [BGG,2] [cA] [d2G2A,2] A, [cAC] [cAE] A, C E |
    [z2B,2] [dBF,2] [dB] [dBD2] [dB] [fdF,2] [ec] [ecC,] E, B, E C B, G, C, |
    [z2B,2] [dBB,] [ecC] [fdD] [ecC] [dBB,] [fdD] [e2c2A,2] E, [cAA,] [cAE] C A, E, |
    [z2G,2] [BGD,2] [cA] [dBB,2] [cA] [BGC,2] [cA] [AFF,] C, F, A, [zE,] F, A, C |
    [z2D,2] [AFA,2] [BG] [cAE2] [AF] [BGG,2] [cA] [d2G2A,2] A, [cAC] [cAE] A, C E |
    [z2B,2] [fdF,2] [fd] [fdD2] [fd] [afF,2] [ge] [zge] |
    [zC,B] [Cz] G [EG] [GB] [BC] [cE] |
    [BC] [cE] [eG] [cE] [eG] [gB] [ca] [ac] |
    [z2B,2] [dBB,] [ecC] [fdD] [ecC] [dBB,] [fdD] [e2c2A,2] E [cAA] [cAE] C A, E, |
    [z2G,2] [BGD,2] [CA] [dBB,2] [cA] [BGC,2] [cA] [AFF,] C, F, A, [zE,] F, A, C |
    [z2D,2] [ACA,2] [BG] [cAE] [AF] [BGG,2] [cA] [d2G2A,2] A, [cAC] [cAE] A, C E |
    [z2B,2] [fdF,2] [fd] [fdD2] [fd] [afF,2] [ge] [gezC,] G, C E B, C E G |
    [z2B,2] [fFF,2] [fF] [fFD2] [fF] [aAF,2] [gG] [g2G2A,2] E, [eEA,] [eEE] A, C E |
    [z2G,2] [dDD,2] [eE] [fFB,2] [eD] [eDC,2] [fF] [cCF,] C, F, A, [zE,] F, A, C |
    [z2D,2] [AFA,2] [BG] [cAE2] [AF] [BGG,2] [cA] [d2G2A,2] A, [cAC] [cAE] A, C E |
    [z2B,F,] [afB,] [c'aD] [bgC,] [afB,] [geD] [acE] [f2A2A,2C,2] |

    -Goldrush
    *******

    ETA: Also, it sounds a bit low-pitched on the harp, so I may transpose it up a bit.
    Last edited by GoldrushSE; Sep 30 2012 at 05:04 PM.

 

 

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