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  1. #1

    Question About the names of people, places & things in LOTRO...

    ...how much of them are actually referenced directly from Tolkien's books, and how much of it is, well, for lack of a better term, "made-up"? As I play along this amazing game, I see these names that make wonder -which ones are from the books, and which ones were dreamed up to fit in the world of Middle-earth? Does anyone know?

    Granted, my knowledge of Tolkien lore is basic at best. It includes the LotR, The Hobbit, and a very general and base summary of the Silmarillion, thanks to Wikipedia*. (*= see note below)

    Then again, the more I think of it, maybe it's best not to know. Maybe knowing which is made up by Turbine writers, and which are culled from the Tolkien works would spoil the fantasy as I travel and quest along. I dunno. What do you think?

    Note: Just to be sure, I don't regard going to Wikipedia as the final answer on any given subject. I know better than that. The site is good for getting to know the gist of things, not to think of it as akin to getting info from the source.

    FSD

  2. #2
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    There is quite a bit of made up information in LOTRO, simply because they've filled in the map more then Tolkien ever did in his published works, who knows how much additional source material has never been published.

    Moria for instance, while the major areas are given, there is no reference to the Globsnaga and the Nameless (except for nameless things in the dark, which could be anything). Enedwaith isn't covered in the books, nor most of Dunland, etc. And even many of the major areas are only ever mentioned in passing.

  3. #3
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    I like to think of this game sometimes as Turbine 'filling in the blanks'. The referenced material in the books feels very right in the game to me. Then they will take an area or event or some little remark that may be mentioned only briefly and do a great job expanding these. There are also many things that are not mentioned, and I think the writers do a very good job at going back to where Tolkien's ideas were based.

    If you really want to peek behind the curtain there are some good reference sites for Tolkien's works. I couple I like to use are:

    http://www.glyphweb.com/ARDA/default.asp

    http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

    Sometimes I do like to plug in something from the game in the search and see if it was actually in the books myself!
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by feel_so_dumb View Post
    Note: Just to be sure, I don't regard going to Wikipedia as the final answer on any given subject. I know better than that. The site is good for getting to know the gist of things, not to think of it as akin to getting info from the source.
    Thank you so much for saying that. I don't normally post that I have added to someone's reputation, but am making an exception in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by bambubambubambu View Post
    I like to think of this game sometimes as Turbine 'filling in the blanks'. The referenced material in the books feels very right in the game to me. Then they will take an area or event or some little remark that may be mentioned only briefly and do a great job expanding these. There are also many things that are not mentioned, and I think the writers do a very good job at going back to where Tolkien's ideas were based.
    By and large I agree with your comments. Occasionally they'll mess something up, but they get it right about 95 per cent of the time. And they've done a superb job of, as you say "filling in the blanks".

    Bascially there's much more overt magic in LOTRO than in LOTR, the towns are much more developed, the availability of equipment and gear of war is far greater in LOTRO in LOTR, and, of course, transportation is infinitely better in LOTRO than in LOTR, but these accomodations are made to enhance the interest and playability of an MMORPG.
    Faërie is a perilous land, and in it are pitfalls for the unwary and dungeons for the overbold. – J.R.R. Tolkien, ‘On Fairy-Stories’.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by oldbadgerbrock View Post
    Thank you so much for saying that. I don't normally post that I have added to someone's reputation, but am making an exception in this case.
    Wow. Thank you!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbadgerbrock View Post
    By and large I agree with your comments. Occasionally they'll mess something up, but they get it right about 95 per cent of the time. And they've done a superb job of, as you say "filling in the blanks".

    Bascially there's much more overt magic in LOTRO than in LOTR, the towns are much more developed, the availability of equipment and gear of war is far greater in LOTRO in LOTR, and, of course, transportation is infinitely better in LOTRO than in LOTR, but these accomodations are made to enhance the interest and playability of an MMORPG.
    I think we are pretty much on the same page badger. I know LOTRO doesn't get everything right they way some of the lore purists would want. But I think they do a great job adhering to the 'spirit' of the lore. I am perfectly wiling to let some things slide for the sake of the game. I think there's a little wiggle room between 'lore stretch' and 'lore break'.
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by feel_so_dumb View Post
    ...how much of them are actually referenced directly from Tolkien's books, and how much of it is, well, for lack of a better term, "made-up"?
    they are names derived from the languages of the area in which said characters reside

    P.S. Trust me, A few of my many hobbies are the languages of Middle-earth
    Last edited by imlandris; Feb 20 2013 at 02:33 PM. Reason: forgot somthing
    The only impossibility is the possibility of impossibilities -Me

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambubambubambu View Post
    I think we are pretty much on the same page badger. I know LOTRO doesn't get everything right they way some of the lore purists would want.
    And there's that everything/strict/100% lore calumny again. For the thousandth time, nobody with any sense actually wants that because it's impossible, due to the change of medium if nothing else. What *is* possible is a better balance. Turbine went for a more shiny/flashy/exaggerated look when it could probably have done with being more gritty.

    But I think they do a great job adhering to the 'spirit' of the lore.
    That's never really been true or we would never have had that madly overblown 'Hero of Eriador' tripe. They exaggerated the role of the players as all-conquering heroes way too much; it might be crowd-pleasing but it's certainly doesn't accord with the spirit of the piece. Neither is it true given all the flashy magic, since in the tale it's all about stout hearts and keen steel against the foe, with magic being used sparingly for set pieces rather than routinely. Equally I can't see how it's in the spirit of anything to make Bree into something so substantial, with paved streets, grand buildings, and guards everywhere. Then there's the shabby way the Grey Company get treated, just to overemphasise the role of the players yet again. I could go on, but that's enough to make the point, I think.

    I am perfectly wiling to let some things slide for the sake of the game. I think there's a little wiggle room between 'lore stretch' and 'lore break'.
    It seems to me that you have trouble discerning between things a mass-market game actually needs (playable Elves and hobbits, say) and things that are there to pander to the apparent need some players have for games to endlessly reinforce how superheroic their characters are. Too much wish fulfilment makes the whole thing look silly, like for example how one might wonder why the bad guys even bother building fortresses if they're so bad at keeping people out. The game's too easy nowadays, the sense of threat isn't there and that's hardly in keeping with the spirit of things, either.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    That's never really been true or we would never have had that madly overblown 'Hero of Eriador' tripe. They exaggerated the role of the players as all-conquering heroes way too much; it might be crowd-pleasing but it's certainly doesn't accord with the spirit of the piece.
    An example of this, and one that I find immensely disturbing, is the advertisement on this website exhorting players to "Forge Your Own Ring!"



    Are we supposed to emulate the heroes who rejected the Ring and went to great effort to destroy it, or the arch-villain Sauron who crafted his own Ring in an effort to master others? Wouldn't the latter make us like Saruman, the fallen wizard, "aping the might of Sauron in his Dark Tower of Barad-dûr"?

    One might answer that, no, we are supposed to be like Celebrimbor, who crafted Rings of Power in an effort to preserve the world from decay. While it may be true that Celebrimbor's motives were good, he was in truth deceived and betrayed by Sauron in his fair guise of Annatar, Lord of Gifts, acting against the wise council of Gil-galad and Elrond who warned him not to trust Annatar.
    Faërie is a perilous land, and in it are pitfalls for the unwary and dungeons for the overbold. – J.R.R. Tolkien, ‘On Fairy-Stories’.

 

 

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