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  1. #1

    Grouping Creepside: Let's Discuss

    Greetings Nimrods,
    I took a long break from LotRO, but came back several months ago. Since then, I have not played creepside much.
    However, a couple years ago, I spent as much time as anyone (when my computer wasn't lagging all to hell) on my warg, Sheepmuncher, some of you may remember me.

    Anyway, I've been creepside some more lately, and it is extremely difficult to get good groups going.

    Some of the problems encountered:

    1. I will simply be ignored.

    2. Creeps will join, but will not be willing to coordinate attacks or move as a group.

    3. Nooblets will join that will have never played in a raid before and: Will not have voice chat enabled, will not be able to follow raid assist targets, or may be 8 years old as some players allow their children to play creepside as many of them consider it to be a bit of sandbox.

    4. I'll recieve a lot of animosity from players who consider grouping to be a PvP-killing action and who will mock my inability to "just solo, you get more infamy that way anyway, lol".


    Well, I am sick and tired of the current state of affairs. We need good leaders on BOTH sides of PvMP just as much as we need good players on BOTH sides. As it is now, the most common reaction to one side forming a raid is to head off to remote areas of the map to farm dwarves and similar mindless activities.

    Excuse the length, but please, respond to at least some of these questions:

    What is your own experience?
    How can things be improved?
    What am I missing as concerns this apparent problem?
    How can I make soloing more fun, if no change is possible?
    Which good tribes are recruiting right now?

    Any other comments should relate to the subject at hand, anything else will hopefully be ignored and removed from the thread by a Mod or something.

    Thanks Nimrods, see you out there.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000af98e/01008/signature.png]Gurthalion[/charsig]
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  2. #2
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    We need Urukind to come back and manage the noobies lol

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyskywalker View Post
    We need Urukind to come back and manage the noobies lol
    ^^ Haha, not sure if he would do more harm than good. Of course it's the higher ranked creeps that make a difference out there.

    Then again... Most of the server would probably join Urukind's raids just for the laughs.


    Where has that crazy (let's face it) drunk gone to anyway?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000af98e/01008/signature.png]Gurthalion[/charsig]
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrestthegreat
    What is your own experience?
    How can things be improved?
    What am I missing as concerns this apparent problem?
    How can I make soloing more fun, if no change is possible?
    Which good tribes are recruiting right now?
    ~yawning mainly
    ~finding Glad in a solo zone (still not achieved )
    ~BB
    ~Wait, your a warg...>? Just grab rez campers and pluck off anything on the side I'd guess... i gank on my hunter and r2 warg, but warg is sooo much easier despite r2 (there are often people to pluck off near the main battle who just run around randomly. I dont question it lol :P)


    ~BB I said it!
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by myforumacc2 View Post
    ~yawning mainly
    ~finding Glad in a solo zone (still not achieved )
    ~BB
    ~Wait, your a warg...>? Just grab rez campers and pluck off anything on the side I'd guess... i gank on my hunter and r2 warg, but warg is sooo much easier despite r2 (there are often people to pluck off near the main battle who just run around randomly. I dont question it lol :P)


    ~BB I said it!
    Thanks for the response.

    Is the Black Blade still even active? I haven't seen any online.
    (And is it just me or are they a bit elitist? A more populist-type tribe would be nice.)

    My main creep right now is my reaver.
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  6. #6
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    I only really see Wordawg out. The rest are off doing other things but ill leave that to spidey to answer, maybe another video or just a post on how good it is and why everyone should quit lotro and become a fanboy of some new better place

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyskywalker View Post
    I only really see Wordawg out. The rest are off doing other things but ill leave that to spidey to answer, maybe another video or just a post on how good it is and why everyone should quit lotro and become a fanboy of some new better place
    Or you can just do the same boring thing because you fear change, or you enjoy being a seemingly big fish in a very, very small pond.

    Nice to know we are missed though!! How about Sauron's Spit getting everyone together...oh wait, nvm, there's what? like 3 of you left?
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  8. #8
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    You kidding? SS is out all the time lol, nothing like how it was a while ago but we still have a good 10-20 of us log on everyday.

    Im still willing to bet you guys all come back within three months of RoR release ^_^

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyskywalker View Post
    You kidding? SS is out all the time lol, nothing like how it was a while ago but we still have a good 10-20 of us log on everyday.

    Im still willing to bet you guys all come back within three months of RoR release ^_^
    I can't speak for anyone else, but unless GW2 goes out of business before RoR goes live I won't be back anytime soon, and with 2 million copies sold and 400k concurrent players (that means 400k players all playing at once ), that isn't likely. Not that I won't pop in now and then when work allows as my laptop won't play GW2. I'm in RoR beta, not impressed at all, I won't be buying it.
    Last edited by Gladgilrian; Sep 17 2012 at 11:53 AM.
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  10. #10
    I applaud Pandamonium or whatever the new guy is for grouping the creeps up and helping the greenies out. Taughrim is right up there also for helping lower ranked creeps with their pve and pvp. Good job and keep up the positive attitude
    Volodic- Rank 14 Minstrel- The first and the last Warlord of Nimrodel
    Volobash- Rank 11 Blackarrow- Arkenstone, Nikitah's Bane
    Volosavenger- Rank 9 Stalker- Landroval, The white warg

  11. #11
    So, Sauron's Spit is still active it seems.
    I guess I'll keep an eye out for officers.

    It would be kind of nice if there were an in-game suggestion made by Turbine reminding new players to creepside that there is a public forum that they can use as a data-base.

    If we had that the usefulness of a "do this before you start playing" sort of thread would be incalculable.
    (Whoa, is that a word? Sounds like something my mind would spit up after a bad math-cramming session).
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000af98e/01008/signature.png]Gurthalion[/charsig]
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  12. #12
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    Well I can say this thread will be important for new creeps come RoR. They'll be at 1 Audacity and everyone else will have 14. I can see a brand new reaver charging someone with 14 Audacity anf geared out and just dying. It will probably be how it is now with 1 Audacity accept worse o.O Same thing for new freeps.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Grishmack View Post
    Well I can say this thread will be important for new creeps come RoR. They'll be at 1 Audacity and everyone else will have 14. I can see a brand new reaver charging someone with 14 Audacity anf geared out and just dying. It will probably be how it is now with 1 Audacity accept worse o.O Same thing for new freeps.
    Just an FYI, it will actually be exactly the same for a starting creep vs a geared freep (audacity wise). We gain 6 new levels of audacity, but the potency of each level will be going down. r1 audacity will have roughly the same bonus it does now (not positive on that part) but while r7 aud currently gives -30% dmg, -50% CC, etc. with RoR it will only give around what r3-4 audacity gives now, and r13 (gear max, you can only get 14th aud from the relic) will have the same reduction bonuses as r7 does now. R2-7 of aud will then cost 1k comms each, with the 'new' ranks costs 6k each again. So a fresh creep with no audacity will have to grind 6k more comms compared to now, but will not be at any more of an Aud disparity come RoR than they are now.


    On the OPs topic: SS may have a decent number of people on, but I've only seen you grouped and organized well enough to be forcing the action a handfull of times, same can be said for the UMADBRO crew (i'm talking about being able to dictate how and where the fight occurs, not rolling in for a push and getting kills). Freepside has a couple people who will take up leading an open group, certainly a few more leaders would be welcome. I'm certainly playing more freepside lately, but I haven't seen any individual tribes with the consistent numbers to control the action when both sides have good numbers, since BB "left". The last person I can remember regularly leading successful open groups was Butta, and if you look past all the rage, when he wasn't just swapping sides for keep flips, he was a positive influence on action out there (IMO).

    Both sides could use more leaders willing to open things up, but given the imbalances creepside to freepside, its far more noticeable creepside.
    Last edited by spelunker; Sep 17 2012 at 07:58 PM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    R2-7 of aud will then cost 1k comms each, with the 'new' ranks costs 6k each again. So a fresh creep with no audacity will have to grind 6k more comms compared to now, but will not be at any more of an Aud disparity come RoR than they are now.
    I was under the impression that it was AUD2-7 that would cost 1k TOTAL (or 1,200 or something), not each. I could be wrong, but that is what is in my head from the Beta thread.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Just an FYI, it will actually be exactly the same for a starting creep vs a geared freep (audacity wise). We gain 6 new levels of audacity, but the potency of each level will be going down. r1 audacity will have roughly the same bonus it does now (not positive on that part) but while r7 aud currently gives -30% dmg, -50% CC, etc. with RoR it will only give around what r3-4 audacity gives now, and r13 (gear max, you can only get 14th aud from the relic) will have the same reduction bonuses as r7 does now. R2-7 of aud will then cost 1k comms each, with the 'new' ranks costs 6k each again. So a fresh creep with no audacity will have to grind 6k more comms compared to now, but will not be at any more of an Aud disparity come RoR than they are now.


    On the OPs topic: SS may have a decent number of people on, but I've only seen you grouped and organized well enough to be forcing the action a handfull of times, same can be said for the UMADBRO crew (i'm talking about being able to dictate how and where the fight occurs, not rolling in for a push and getting kills). Freepside has a couple people who will take up leading an open group, certainly a few more leaders would be welcome. I'm certainly playing more freepside lately, but I haven't seen any individual tribes with the consistent numbers to control the action when both sides have good numbers, since BB "left". The last person I can remember regularly leading successful open groups was Butta, and if you look past all the rage, when he wasn't just swapping sides for keep flips, he was a positive influence on action out there (IMO).

    Both sides could use more leaders willing to open things up, but given the imbalances creepside to freepside, its far more noticeable creepside.
    Would you like to step up to the challenge and actually carry out what you said above?
    Volodic- Rank 14 Minstrel- The first and the last Warlord of Nimrodel
    Volobash- Rank 11 Blackarrow- Arkenstone, Nikitah's Bane
    Volosavenger- Rank 9 Stalker- Landroval, The white warg

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by vhamster View Post
    Would you like to step up to the challenge and actually carry out what you said above?
    Lead? The reason I play solo is because the way I like to play isn't overly conducive to grouping. I die a LOT, and I doubt many or really anyone would want to play in a group that was knowingly running into situations trying for a couple kills amidst a wipe.

    Furthermore, I can appreciate what a good or even bad group brings to the moors, but I don't personally enjoy leading groups in PvE land when I have to do that, and I can only imagine it'd be less enjoyable in the moors.
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  17. #17
    In response to Geirskogul mostly:

    It's true that I rarely get an effective group going. But, c'mon, what can you do with a bunch of low-rank reavers or wargs that blow up faster than a plasma grenade?

    I have to say that I don't really want to group with people that don't want to group with me. If most of Nimrodel creepside has a total blast soloing creepside, then freepside is where I should be, because I have a great time in groups: leading, or otherwise.

    I would be more than willing to follow other's lead as well, assuming, of course, that player was a capable leader and was willing to experiment and try new things.
    Every time the freeps wipe at gramsfoot and every single creep continues to sit in the one-shots waiting for them to return... Well something bad happens. Probably a puppy dies somewhere. :/
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by forestthegreat View Post
    In response to Geirskogul mostly:

    It's true that I rarely get an effective group going. But, c'mon, what can you do with a bunch of low-rank reavers or wargs that blow up faster than a plasma grenade?

    I have to say that I don't really want to group with people that don't want to group with me. If most of Nimrodel creepside has a total blast soloing creepside, then freepside is where I should be, because I have a great time in groups: leading, or otherwise.

    I would be more than willing to follow other's lead as well, assuming, of course, that player was a capable leader and was willing to experiment and try new things.
    Every time the freeps wipe at gramsfoot and every single creep continues to sit in the one-shots waiting for them to return... Well something bad happens. Probably a puppy dies somewhere. :/
    I don't think I've been on freep or creepside when you (sheepmuncher) are, grouped or not, so you could be working miracles for all I know . What I was saying was when I'm on creepside (admittedly less the last month) SS, UMADBRO, and a few of the other decent sized tribes may have 3-6 grouped, but the only open groups are lead by r2 reavers spamming blind invites in grams, looking for help with An, the Mayor, or an OP.

    If you're leading groups I applaud you (or anyone else who is). Things I'm sure you know; be open, welcoming, and try to avoid the drama that can infect PvP out here, but be clear on what is required to participate and contribute when someone you don't know joins up (following target assist, staying with the group, having voice enabled, LISTENING, etc, etc).

    Edit: and even if you've got mostly low rank creeps, being grouped they should do much better than solo, so long as you make it a positive experience, hopefully they'll have fun, recognize you as a good leader and earn some aud/skills/ranks to be more effective.

    Another thing that hasn't been brought up: OOC. Even if all the creeps aren't all in one raid, they can be made to coordinate pretty effectively through OOC, but this seems like something that has gone down hill steadily in the time I've been creepside (something I know I personally should do much better). Rather than being used to call out freep movements and locations, its 'just got zerged at OC' or 'solo hunter in grothum'. Very few people use the targeting macros, so focus fire is almost non-existent (unless yours truly makes an ambush right when the other freeps start backing up ). I assume many of the 6-man sized groups don't want to use OOC for many things for fear of giving things away to those dreaded 2-boxers (./spideyrage) but calling out a flank 3 seconds before you do it or right before the warg pack is making an entrance can make a huge difference, and said 2-boxers won't be able to react fast enough in those situations for it to really matter.

    Hopefully I've finally made a constructive post in here...
    Last edited by spelunker; Sep 18 2012 at 02:02 AM.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vhamster View Post
    I applaud Pandamonium or whatever the new guy is for grouping the creeps up and helping the greenies out. Taughrim is right up there also for helping lower ranked creeps with their pve and pvp. Good job and keep up the positive attitude
    Thank you much Volo.Its me Pandaemonium.My other account was permanent banned so now i am playing this warg.The tribe i made,Overlords of Barad Dur still stands(about 30-40 in it)
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Another thing that hasn't been brought up: OOC. Even if all the creeps aren't all in one raid, they can be made to coordinate pretty effectively through OOC, but this seems like something that has gone down hill steadily in the time I've been creepside (something I know I personally should do much better). Rather than being used to call out freep movements and locations, its 'just got zerged at OC' or 'solo hunter in grothum'. Very few people use the targeting macros, so focus fire is almost non-existent (unless yours truly makes an ambush right when the other freeps start backing up ). I assume many of the 6-man sized groups don't want to use OOC for many things for fear of giving things away to those dreaded 2-boxers (./spideyrage) but calling out a flank 3 seconds before you do it or right before the warg pack is making an entrance can make a huge difference, and said 2-boxers won't be able to react fast enough in those situations for it to really matter.

    Hopefully I've finally made a constructive post in here...
    OOC use to be the Creeps greatest strength, now people get reported by idiots for using ;target macros. You mistake my rage at 2 boxers for actual trolling of those 2 boxers ^_^ Creepside has sunk to the same level as Freepside. With no lockout its just constant flipping to whichever side that is winning. Personally, I think it's a lost cause now.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Lead?
    I bet you actually could lead creep OOC. Your done trying freep ooc ;target right? theyre worthless and have no idea how good OOC is lol, try creep side and you'd get... weelll... in an open field fight, as long as your not Taughrim calling out ppl without saying the location (wtab) while the main fighting is at stab/lawn, you might get better results.


    Also, plz dont be a defiler :P I literally watch whenever Buby calls out targets and absolutely nothing happens lol
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by myforumacc2 View Post
    I bet you actually could lead creep OOC. Your done trying freep ooc ;target right? theyre worthless and have no idea how good OOC is lol, try creep side and you'd get... weelll... in an open field fight, as long as your not Taughrim calling out ppl without saying the location (wtab) while the main fighting is at stab/lawn, you might get better results.


    Also, plz dont be a defiler :P I literally watch whenever Buby calls out targets and absolutely nothing happens lol
    Calling out targets in OOC using ;target macros is really just the weak younger brother of a raid assist target. However, in a raid, you get actual audio from the person on target assist as he calls out his target and don't have to be keeping an eye on chat.

    Often though, the problem creepside is that even if the freeps are outnumbered, the creeps will not attack until they see an opportunity (a weakness in the freeps). Thus, we get creeps sitting in npcs for days, being slowly farmed, until... BAM, some freep over-achiever pulls half of the keep and you get half again your number in creeps on your @$$ (many of them wargs), and it's a wipe.

    Boring, boring, boring.
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  23. #23
    I've been doing small groups on creepside this past week on my reaver..tons of fun, I wish people would resort to full fellowship max instead going the traditional open raid way. Much more control over your group and a lot more focus...my 2 cents
    Volodic- Rank 14 Minstrel- The first and the last Warlord of Nimrodel
    Volobash- Rank 11 Blackarrow- Arkenstone, Nikitah's Bane
    Volosavenger- Rank 9 Stalker- Landroval, The white warg

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by vhamster View Post
    I've been doing small groups on creepside this past week on my reaver..tons of fun, I wish people would resort to full fellowship max instead going the traditional open raid way. Much more control over your group and a lot more focus...my 2 cents

    +rep!
    Small groups are often more rewarding than raids it seems. The absence of lag alone is oftentimes enough for a general sense of satisfaction.

    Edit: Just realized I was responding to Volo, haha.
    Last edited by forestthegreat; Sep 30 2012 at 04:53 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by forestthegreat View Post
    +rep!
    Small groups are often more rewarding than raids it seems. The absence of lag alone is oftentimes enough for a general sense of satisfaction.

    Edit: Just realized I was responding to Volo, haha.
    True, the computer I usually play on cant handle a raid over 12 people and sometimes i have to turn of everything in UI. But in the Duo, trios, and fellowships I've been doing lately I get more renown, less lag than a raid, and more laugh at when people are talking and making jokes. It more fun when in a small group. I just group yesterday with the Avengers on both sides yesterday and got 8k comms from both toons in freep and creep, and today duoing with Gundrid and like an hour or two with Hezz i got over around 8k - 10k comms again(not to mention the 11.5k renown).
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