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  1. #1

    Smile Virtues for a cappy

    Hello Ive been leveling a Captian and she is in the 50's and I would like to set up her Virtues the way mainly for healing .. I would love some suggestions as in which ones you think is best and such Thank you

    Maril-Riliegh

  2. #2
    Discipline, Valour, Zeal, Loyalty, Empathy are good ones to have at level 50. Discipline is one that you will use thru the current level cap. Going into the endgame i would swap out a few of these for Fidelity and Tolerance since its all about tactical mitigation.
    I have a Level 75 Captain, i lean more towards healing and i slot Discipline, Zeal, Fidelity, Tolerance and Valour.

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  3. #3
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    The same virtues can be used for virtually any class in any situation.

    Zeal
    Tolerance
    Fidelity
    Honour
    Innocence

    These will greatly improve your survivability. You can easily get stats on your gear, which is why I'd recommend not using things like Fortitude (that's a might virtue, right?) and save your virtue spots for things that you can't get easily on your gear, like the mits. Every virtue I listed up there add to your tactical mitigation, and at least two of them add to your common mitigation as well.

    The only exception I can think of for using these virtues would be a tanking warden, because they can cap both their physical and tactical mitigation entirely too easily even without the virtues.

    But yeah. Zeal, Tolerance, and Fidelity are must-haves. (On my server at least, any good raid group won't let you in if you don't have those three equipped and maxed. I'm going on the assumption that since our server sucks at raiding and we still bother to enforce that, any other server is probably going to enforce that as well.) Honour and Innocence are both really good as well, though a bit more optional.

    And yes, those are the five I use on my captain.

    And one last note: a lot of people will disagree with me on this one but Valour is a terrible virtue. The only useful stat that it contributes is max morale, which will do nothing for you without mitigations to back it up. OOC regen is useless and the might is such a small number that it's not worth talking about. Thohelm does make a good point though, the virtues you use to level up will probably be quite different than the ones you use at the level cap. At cap I discourage use of stat virtues (+Might ones, etc) but while leveling you'll notice they help a lot. Don't go out of your way to level them but if you've got a few ranks in 'em you might as well equip 'em.
    Last edited by TinDragon; Sep 11 2012 at 06:05 PM.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by srog72 View Post
    Discipline, Valour, Zeal, Loyalty, Empathy are good ones to have at level 50. Discipline is one that you will use thru the current level cap. Going into the endgame i would swap out a few of these for Fidelity and Tolerance since its all about tactical mitigation.
    I have a Level 75 Captain, i lean more towards healing and i slot Discipline, Zeal, Fidelity, Tolerance and Valour.
    Thank you so much I have been told those exact same Virtues but I still wanted to get some info and make sure ... I like to do research before I just go deeding like crazy lol Thank you again
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    The same virtues can be used for virtually any class in any situation.

    Zeal
    Tolerance
    Fidelity
    Honour
    Innocence

    These will greatly improve your survivability. You can easily get stats on your gear, which is why I'd recommend not using things like Fortitude (that's a might virtue, right?) and save your virtue spots for things that you can't get easily on your gear, like the mits. Every virtue I listed up there add to your tactical mitigation, and at least two of them add to your common mitigation as well.

    The only exception I can think of for using these virtues would be a tanking warden, because they can cap both their physical and tactical mitigation entirely too easily even without the virtues.

    But yeah. Zeal, Tolerance, and Fidelity are must-haves. (On my server at least, any good raid group won't let you in if you don't have those three equipped and maxed. I'm going on the assumption that since our server sucks at raiding and we still bother to enforce that, any other server is probably going to enforce that as well.) Honour and Innocence are both really good as well, though a bit more optional.

    And yes, those are the five I use on my captain.

    And one last note: a lot of people will disagree with me on this one but Valour is a terrible virtue. The only useful stat that it contributes is max morale, which will do nothing for you without mitigations to back it up. OOC regen is useless and the might is such a small number that it's not worth talking about. Thohelm does make a good point though, the virtues you use to level up will probably be quite different than the ones you use at the level cap. At cap I discourage use of stat virtues (+Might ones, etc) but while leveling you'll notice they help a lot. Don't go out of your way to level them but if you've got a few ranks in 'em you might as well equip 'em.
    Well Thnak you for your Help you however seem to have it all planned out lol and Yes our server doesnt suck that much but we do alot of Raiding and such ... I have a 75 mini and rk and have been working on this cappy she is for sure the hardest of the 3 .. So many things but thank you so much for your time
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  6. #6
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    Of course all virtues unfold their full capability on max rank 14... so I don´t think it is that important what do you trait for leveling (but because all trash npc´s in middle earth deal common damage some with physical mitigation are no bad choice = Zeal / Charity / Compassion / Innocence (for example)).

    If you look forward to endcontent, you´re focus should switch from physical mitigation to tactical mitigation. Especially in raids or in the ettenmoors (!) tactical mitigation is an absolute must have! So I definitely agree with two virtues which are mentioned in the other posts: Fidelity and Tolerance!

    With the new stat focus since RoI in September 2011 there is one thing which is hard to compensate near might, crit and tactical mitigation (captain): morale! You get your might (without skirmishing) with Limlight-Jewellery and your set (if you don´t use the ettenmoors set)! You get your crit with your relics (and skirmish items) and your mitigation with vitality and your virtues! So Zeal AND Valour are a must have in my opinion. 400 morale and 11 might... well not much (like every virtue)... but why honour and innocence like in the post above? For endcontent the physical mitigation of innocence is completely senseless. 3622 resistance rateing from innocence and honour together sounds very nice? it´s not! for what in the name of jesus you need resitance? If a boss deals diseases, poisons, wounds etc. you drink your potion or your captain, loremaster, hunter or what ever have at least one useful thing to do... :P And damage over time which you can´t cure but resist is rare and not worth to mentioned. The ~530 Tactical Mitigation from Innocence and Honour together sounds well too. And normally it is, but this value from two (!) virtues... hmpf... also some day you will get to the point where 500 mitigation is about <1% (with my captain I am at this point)... so I have the choice:

    Innocence and Honour (from above)

    ~3600 Resistance (senseless)
    ~530 Mitigation (tactical)
    ~750 Mitigation (physical) (senseless)
    ~10 Vitality (not worthy)

    Valour and Discipline (my build)

    ~390 Morale
    ~565 ncmr (senseless)
    ~1200 Resistance (senseless)
    ~50 Might

    The choice is: ~530 tactical mitigation OR ~390 morale and 50 might (500 mastery)... I decided myself for the second build...
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordGate View Post
    Of course all virtues unfold their full capability on max rank 14... so I don´t think it is that important what do you trait for leveling (but because all trash npc´s in middle earth deal common damage some with physical mitigation are no bad choice = Zeal / Charity / Compassion / Innocence (for example)).

    If you look forward to endcontent, you´re focus should switch from physical mitigation to tactical mitigation. Especially in raids or in the ettenmoors (!) tactical mitigation is an absolute must have! So I definitely agree with two virtues which are mentioned in the other posts: Fidelity and Tolerance!

    With the new stat focus since RoI in September 2011 there is one thing which is hard to compensate near might, crit and tactical mitigation (captain): morale! You get your might (without skirmishing) with Limlight-Jewellery and your set (if you don´t use the ettenmoors set)! You get your crit with your relics (and skirmish items) and your mitigation with vitality and your virtues! So Zeal AND Valour are a must have in my opinion. 400 morale and 11 might... well not much (like every virtue)... but why honour and innocence like in the post above? For endcontent the physical mitigation of innocence is completely senseless. 3622 resistance rateing from innocence and honour together sounds very nice? it´s not! for what in the name of jesus you need resitance? If a boss deals diseases, poisons, wounds etc. you drink your potion or your captain, loremaster, hunter or what ever have at least one useful thing to do... :P And damage over time which you can´t cure but resist is rare and not worth to mentioned. The ~530 Tactical Mitigation from Innocence and Honour together sounds well too. And normally it is, but this value from two (!) virtues... hmpf... also some day you will get to the point where 500 mitigation is about <1% (with my captain I am at this point)... so I have the choice:

    Innocence and Honour (from above)

    ~3600 Resistance (senseless)
    ~530 Mitigation (tactical)
    ~750 Mitigation (physical) (senseless)
    ~10 Vitality (not worthy)

    Valour and Discipline (my build)

    ~390 Morale
    ~565 ncmr (senseless)
    ~1200 Resistance (senseless)
    ~50 Might

    The choice is: ~530 tactical mitigation OR ~390 morale and 50 might (500 mastery)... I decided myself for the second build...
    Almost every fight has both a physical and tactical damage aspect to it. At the very least, every trash pull is heavily common damage, not tactical. They're both important, people focus more on tact mit because common mit is naturally higher to begin with. If you're not capped on common mit, a phys mit virtue isn't useless.

    Resist, in addition to the status ailments on yourself, also affects things like bleeds (can make them go away faster), the silence effect on the pinnacle of Orthanc (I run through the center constantly and hardly get silenced), and tactical source attacks can all be resisted (which is a lot of what Saruman uses). So hardly useless.
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  8. #8
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    Resistance is only "senseless" on landscape, where it really doesn't matter what virtues you run anyway.

    Also, personally, I stopped using Discipline ages ago, for the reason TinDragon stated. Might may not be capped any longer, but diminishing returns on mastery ratings means that 50 Might really doesn't count for much when you already have ~2000 from gear. I mean, that might bump your outgoing damage/heals by 0.1%, maybe.

    Anyway, where I deviate from the Proscribed Best Build For Everyone (which really is the best build, don't get me wrong) is that I like to take ICPR virtues like Patience and Wisdom. Captains are very power-starved since all of our gear lost Will, and I find ICPR handy to keep me from running out. Those virtues also often have Resistance on them, which is a nice bonus.
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  9. #9
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    For endgame raiding are in my opinion must haves:

    Zeal
    Fidelity
    Tolerance
    Innocence

    For 5th I am using Valour but Honour and Loyalty are also very nice so I would consider also those.
    Last edited by Galborion; Sep 12 2012 at 06:01 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post

    Almost every fight has both a physical and tactical damage aspect to it. At the very least, every trash pull is heavily common damage, not tactical.

    Resist, in addition to the status ailments on yourself, also affects things like bleeds (can make them go away faster), the silence effect on the pinnacle of Orthanc (I run through the center constantly and hardly get silenced), and tactical source attacks can all be resisted (which is a lot of what Saruman uses).
    Correct me if I´m wrong, but there is no common damage for you (if you don´t tank) as a captain in the boss fights of Orthanc. Normally I never get attention of trash npc´s in trash pulls before the boss fights because we have a tank ^^ AoE attacks may hit me, but I´m still a heavy class... no need for the few trolls to skill physical mitigation. Also my (!) main endcontent is ettenmoors beside Orthanc. No need for physical mitigation.

    I know that resistance effects bleed, you can resist single hits of a bleed for example. But resistance doesn´t make a bleed go away faster o.O (a bleed for 60 seconds which hits every 3 seconds will nerve you for 60 seconds regardless if you have 0 or 30.000 resistance). Why do you run through the center constantly :P That is the easiest thing you can do preventing yourself without resistance :P Also your resistance is still a chance and I think it´s not very smart for a captain to run constantly (!) through the center^^ There is not so much tactical source at saruman some people expected... you can easily test this with Fire-lore

    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post

    Anyway, where I deviate from the Proscribed Best Build For Everyone (which really is the best build, don't get me wrong) is that I like to take ICPR virtues like Patience and Wisdom. Captains are very power-starved since all of our gear lost Will, and I find ICPR handy to keep me from running out. Those virtues also often have Resistance on them, which is a nice bonus.
    ICPR virtues? At least with the blue ettenmoors set, high crit value and the trait "now for wrath" and your power potions it´s nearly impossible to run out of power.
    Last edited by OverlordGate; Sep 12 2012 at 08:57 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordGate View Post
    Correct me if I´m wrong, but there is no common damage for you (if you don´t tank) as a captain in the boss fights of Orthanc. Normally I never get attention of trash npc´s in trash pulls before the boss fights because we have a tank ^^ AoE attacks may hit me, but I´m still a heavy class... no need for the few trolls to skill physical mitigation. Also my (!) main endcontent is ettenmoors beside Orthanc. No need for physical mitigation.

    I know that resistance effects bleed, you can resist single hits of a bleed for example. But resistance doesn´t make a bleed go away faster o.O (a bleed for 60 seconds which hits every 3 seconds will nerve you for 60 seconds regardless if you have 0 or 30.000 resistance). Why do you run through the center constantly :P That is the easiest thing you can do preventing yourself without resistance :P Also your resistance is still a chance and I think it´s not very smart for a captain to run constantly (!) through the center^^ There is not so much tactical source at saruman some people expected... you can easily test this with Fire-lore



    ICPR virtues? At least with the blue ettenmoors set, high crit value and the trait "now for wrath" and your power potions it´s nearly impossible to run out of power.
    For a simple example, the roots in Shadow T2 do common damage (and hit pretty hard). Plus, unless your tank is perfect, and depending on your strategy, you'll end up getting hit by mobs as well. Quite frequently we only have two champs so we use a cappy taunt to drag in a third add. Also, I could be wrong but there are still some classes in Moors that do common. At the very least the lower ranking creeps will, and although they don't hit as hard, why wouldn't you mitigate their attacks too?

    If you resist a bleed (or a status ailment) it not only will not tick, but has a chance of going away every time it's resisted. Try it out.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post

    Also, I could be wrong but there are still some classes in Moors that do common. At the very least the lower ranking creeps will, and although they don't hit as hard, why wouldn't you mitigate their attacks too?

    If you resist a bleed (or a status ailment) it not only will not tick, but has a chance of going away every time it's resisted. Try it out.

    Only very very low creeps deal common damage, I wouldn´t mitigate their damage because I can strike them down with 3 hits while the common dps I take is about 20 or 30... and the number of very very low creeps which deal common damage is also very very low :P

    Roots at Bukot or trash okay... but I do not think that I have to mitigate common damage as a heavy armour anymore... don´t know... the roots don´t hit me that hard and I could tank 2 Ruffians at ID1 without any porblems.

    Again for me: You want to tell me that your chance to resist has another chance to end up a bleeding completely?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordGate View Post
    ICPR virtues? At least with the blue ettenmoors set, high crit value and the trait "now for wrath" and your power potions it´s nearly impossible to run out of power.
    I don't really do the Moors, so I don't have that set. I usually have either 4-Dagor/2-GC or 3-Mene/3-GC. The ICPR provided from both of those combinations is pretty low, although I only do Mene/GC in HoH, which basically has no power issues.
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  14. #14
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    For raids I mainly use tactical mitigation virtues. Discipline I thought about using before but 500 mastery seems kind of low. (I get around 23k tactical with self buffs.) Zeal/valour I don't use. I get around 10k morale with banner of war/motivation/idome. (I build for higher morale and mitigation in t2 raids. After all, cappies are not dps or main healers, so why build like one. So basically I like tactical Mitigation virtues rather than morale or might. Note: I do swap some virtues sometimes for different situations.
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