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  1. #1

    Bilbo and the three dwarves?

    I am currently reading LOTR for the first time in a long time. Want to see the differences between the books and movies and pay attention to the lore as it applies to LOTRO.

    Do we find out who the three dwarves where that accompanied Bilbo when he left after his party? For some reason that jumped out when I saw it, I am to the point of the revealing of Gandalf the White. I hope I didn't miss it already.

  2. #2
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    No. As far as I know, the names of those three dwarves are not revealed.
    "Just like Mary Shelly, Just like Frankenstein, Break your chains, And count your change, And try to walk the line"

  3. #3
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    Exclusion

    Since Dwarves appear very little throughout LotR, Tolkien though there would be no point in naming most of them, There and Back Again and Gimli excluded. LotRO does a good job with the lore and only messes with it when necessary, which is suprisingly small to say the least.

  4. #4
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    It was never disclosed who the dwarves were at this point in the story, i think it's meant to be implied that those dwarves were just three regular dwarves of no importance who were sent to escort him, i don't think they were ever meant to be important enough to have names.

  5. #5
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    LoTR isn't about Bilbo, so his travels there are lost. However, I always assumed that those were 3 dwarves from the original party he travelled with to Dale, there names simply omited as there are no introductions done, he just leaves with them.

  6. #6
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    Nar, Anar, and Hannar

    In the original manuscript of the fellowship of the ring Tolkien wrote this while describing Bilbo's departure after the long-expected party:

    He [Bilbo] stopped silent a moment. Then 'Goodbye, Gandalf! ' he cried,
    and made off into the night. Nar, Anar, and Hannar followed
    him.(19) Gandalf remained by the gate for a little, and then sprang
    over it and made his way up the Hill.

    In the footnotes of this passage by Christopher Tolkien, CT noted:

    My father took all these four Dwarf-names from the same source in
    the Old Norse Elder Edda as those in The Hobbit.

    The names never made it to print - and JRRT changed many, many things from the original manuscript - but it is clear that he at least at one time had given these dwarfs a name and they were new characters.

    I assume that the 4th dwarf referred to here is the Dwarf: Lofar, who was mentioned in the beginning of the chapter as helping Bilbo with party business and stayed behind to help Bingo (Bilbo's son that was later changed to Frodo, Bilbo's adopted nephew) clean up.

    Source: History of Middle-earth Vol 6 - The Return of the Shadow
    Last edited by Dwarendele; Oct 11 2012 at 04:53 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    In the original manuscript of the fellowship of the rings Tolkien wrote this while describing Bilbo's departure after the long-expected party:

    He [Bilbo] stopped silent a moment. Then 'Goodbye, Gandalf! ' he cried,
    and made off into the night. Nar, Anar, and Hannar followed
    him.(19) Gandalf remained by the gate for a little, and then sprang
    over it and made his way up the Hill.---
    Nar became a figure in another story; check the Appendices of the Lord of the Rings, and what happened before the Battle of Azanulbizar...

    That's just off the top of my head. In a bit of a hurry.

  8. #8
    I had always liked to think the three were his companions from the Hobbit story. Since it appears they were once named and then removed, I will go on pretending I never read that they were once named, and that they were indeed 3 of the 13.
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  9. #9
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    Thought it might be fun to compare the original manuscript to what appeared in the fellowship of the ring:

    Original passage:

    'Does he [Frodo] know where you are going?'
    'No! I am not sure myself, really. And I think that is just as well
    for everybody. He might want to follow me.'
    'So might I. I hope you will take care of yourself! '
    'Take care! I don't care. And don't be unhappy about me: I am
    as happy as ever I have been, and that is saying a lot. But the time
    has come. I am being swept off my feet,' he added mysteriously,
    and then in a low voice as if to himself he sang softly in the
    darkness.

    The Road goes ever on and on
    Down from the Door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone,
    And I must follow if I can,
    Pursuing it with weary feet,
    Until it joins some larger way,
    Where many paths and errands meet.
    And whither then? I cannot say.

    He stopped silent a moment. Then 'Goodbye, Gandalf! ' he cried,
    and made off into the night. Nar, Anar, and Hannar followed
    him. Gandalf remained by the gate for a little, and then sprang
    over it and made his way up the Hill.


    FotR:

    It was a fine night, and the black sky was dotted with stars. He looked up, sniffing the air. "What fun! What fun to be off again, off on the Road with dwarves! This is what I have really been longing for, for years! Good-bye! ' he said, looking at his old home and bowing to the door. "Good-bye, Gandalf!"
    "Good-bye, for the present, Bilbo. Take care of yourself! You are old enough, and perhaps wise enough."
    "Take care! I don't care. Don't you worry about me! I am as happy now as I have ever been, and that is saying a great deal. But the time has come. I am being swept off my feet at last," he added, and then in a low voice, as if to himself, he sang softly in the dark:

    The Road goes ever on and on
    Down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone,
    And I must follow, if I can,
    Pursuing it with eager feet,
    Until it joins some larger way
    Where many paths and errands meet.
    And whither then? I cannot say.

    He paused, silent for a moment. Then without another word he turned away from the lights and voices in the fields and tents, and followed by his three companions went round into his garden, and trotted down the long sloping path. He jumped over a low place in the hedge at the bottom, and took to the meadows, passing into the night like a rustle of wind in the grass.
    Gandalf remained for a while staring after him into the darkness. "Goodbye, my dear Bilbo - until our next meeting!" he said softly and went back indoors.

    As you can see that even though the narrative in FotR is much more fleshed out and polished - many of the key elements of the idea were put down right from the start.

    HoMe is a very interesting study of the authors creative process and I highly recomend it to any one who likes a behind the scenes look at this incredible work.
    Last edited by Dwarendele; Oct 11 2012 at 05:11 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigram View Post
    I had always liked to think the three were his companions from the Hobbit story. Since it appears they were once named and then removed, I will go on pretending I never read that they were once named, and that they were indeed 3 of the 13.
    6 of the 13 were deceased by this time and Bombur wasnt walking anywhere, lets go with the names from above.

  11. #11
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    I believe these stories about them being named, so I guess those are their real names.

    Up until now, however, I always suspected one of them was Balin, since he has remained a good friend of Bilbo's after The Hobbit and has visited him a couple of times since. I do not know if he was deceased by the time The Fellowship of the Rings takes place, though...
    The Road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone, and I must follow, if I can.
    ~Bilbo Baggins~

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwarfFriend View Post
    Up until now, however, I always suspected one of them was Balin, since he has remained a good friend of Bilbo's after The Hobbit and has visited him a couple of times since. I do not know if he was deceased by the time The Fellowship of the Rings takes place, though...
    As it turns out, he'd been dead for several years by the time Bilbo left the Shire.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    As it turns out, he'd been dead for several years by the time Bilbo left the Shire.
    Ok, thanks for the info. Then it could only have been Dwalin, but he wasn't as close to Bilbo as his brother was, so... :S
    The Road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone, and I must follow, if I can.
    ~Bilbo Baggins~

  14. #14
    It was Balin who led the expedition which attepted to retake Moria. He died in 2994, just 7 years before Bilbo's party.
    Last edited by Wolfhelm; Jan 13 2013 at 04:40 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sangheli View Post
    Since Dwarves appear very little throughout LotR, Tolkien though there would be no point in naming most of them, There and Back Again and Gimli excluded. LotRO does a good job with the lore and only messes with it when necessary, which is suprisingly small to say the least.
    So which do you have a lack of knowledge on: the game or the lore?

    There are umpteen examples of unnecessary and foolish additions to the game that break the lore.

 

 

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