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  1. #1
    I know, I know they suck, which is probably TL : DR version of any general thread about Legacies. Which is, while QQ the foundation of this one, why I figured focused version could serve a better purpose. Turbine knows - far better than us - what legacies are used and what are as popular as Hunter Combat Rez. What is usually missing from this is *why*. Well, not entirely, but more *why* for them never hurts. And besides, long ago, in galaxy far away, someone mentioned Legacy pass that didn't exactly happen. Or... it did and they were secretly deemed awesome. Fix it below before we hear that many players suggested "Campfire Duration" and "Heartseeker -BPE Rating" Legacy.

    This is not a thread for inventing new Legacies - at least from the ground up. Frankly, without having a clue about future of the class, those ideas are usually pointless as such stuff is more like a support for new design rather than new design in itself. But before such decisions can happen - having few free slots for Legacies is better idea than hacking them at random in the last minute to free some space. And, more importantly, we lose too much QQ Power just imagining new Legacies

    Feel free to use template below or just type your ugliest ones in the effort to magically make them disappear. Personal LI building preference, personal playstyle, personal "fun" factor, "leet DPS" are all equal as explanation - no explanation at all is nothing really bad either. But let's keep few assumptions:
    #1 The most valuable part is "Legacies I would like to see gone" - with some justification if possible; need some QQ for the thread to prosper ^^
    #2 Legacies that should stay: those that demand no significant changes; if they do - what simple change could do the trick without remaking it into something completely different;
    #3 Assume no new skills are added, class mechanic is unchanged, every annoyance is still present, we are what we are on Live - and Yelk posted pretty much every significant change already, though (Beta being Beta and all that) no real need to include these except for that AR legacy heal;
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Aug 24 2012 at 09:49 AM.

  2. #2

    Question General Legacy QQ Thread: The ones you want to go away.

    Ranged
    A. Legacies that might as well stay

    Crit Multipliers
    I don't really care if they are linked - but if they are separate, then we need REALLY good competition because they are only stupid "point tax" otherwise

    Quick Shot Crit Chance
    With crit caps unchanged, and with new Split Shot, QS can use every buff to stay as leader of "get focus" in the long run

    Burn Hot Bonus
    Because it's simple, Minor, not that bad - 5-ish % damage for 20s is not bad as a boost and you can predict what fights might need it

    Heartseeker Bonus
    Because it's Minor and because it's easy to figure out what (albeit very limited) use it can have; I'd change it to something like 30% if skill stays so... tasteless, but I suspect people would spamslot it / QQ just because "because it's so high!" not figuring out it means barely 15-ish %

    Quickshot S:S Slow
    Not sure if it deserves to be Major

    Distracting Shot CD
    Barbed Arrow

    Mercy Cooldown
    Between A and B - it got some upgrade for Moors... but it would also be more useful if we switch CD for % requirement, up to 25% (so 75% instead of 50%); right now it's not really worth to get cooldown lower because it only means more focus waste AND less ISB in-between; it was nice when corruptions were on every mob and their troll inlaws, but now - or in Moors?

    B. Goodbye
    - Evade Rating, - Block Rating
    ...seriously with those ratings... we have no idea what are those values on bosses but +rating or -rating is something that feels outdated ever since stats got bloated; change into % might be less irritating, but I feel BPE reduction could be much better handled through something else, especially if we talk about dynamic battlefield, like dead horse called Moving Target - not exactly worth to build another LI just for that type of moments

    + Ranged Evade
    Not worth to bother unless it's changed into something that can boost it independently from bloated stat avoidances that are immediately eaten by finesse. It could be even BA-Counter - right now it is something you leave because you don't have points left anyway

    Power Cost Reductions
    Right now they might as well be merged into Penetrating Shot Power cost Reduction and... no dramatic changes would occur; I don't see how Induction may be worth slotting - unless for Heartseeker XD

    Threat Reductions
    It's a flawed system where you already gain detaunt when you slot this stuff, not because its potency, but because you are NOT slotting anything useful instead; there are constant issues with reductions (not) scaling. Without better idea they might as well die and Hunters can slot Vit Legacy instead and have some detaunt with actual bonuses as a result.

    QS S:E Threat Reduction
    OK, I WILL build LI with this one if we get other legacies that can justify switching two bows mid-combat - bows that are both useful, both in different situations; right now we would be doing that ONLY to get detaunt bonus - I might as well switch to naked underleveld LI and do so much less DPS I am "detaunted by tank" quicker than by QS; or stop shooting which makes this Legacy pointless

    Distracting Shot Resist reduction
    If there are only rare moments when resist can create disaster, move this buff outside Legacies for quick use - preferably better and faster than some LI switching


    Melee
    A. Legacies that might as well stay

    Needful Haste,

    Crit Prec Magnitude,

    Beneath Notice Cooldown,

    AoE Targets

    Deep Concentration Power Bonus

    Agile Rejoinder bonus
    100% is good, the rest is not Legacy's fault

    Low Cut Bleed
    Although ... Low Cut could use better bonus... you know what I speak of ^^

    Press Onward Cooldown

    Only if it's still unchanged - that you can have it on worthless switchee LI doubles its value... or diminish it, depends on how you look at it

    Stealth Detection:
    Another "between A and B" for me, mainly because it's Moors Leg, which is a bad idea on its own; keep it only if we can't get it more interesting, like with some tracking boost...


    B. Goodbye
    Blindside Crit Rating
    Yeah, even though it might be better now that it is useable on the move.*

    Melee Crit Multiplier

    Melee Crit Rating
    If too harsh, see *

    Desperate Flight CD
    Just.. lol. Consider this the best feedback I am prepared to give

    Strenght of the Earth bonus
    Bonus is bad AND skill is bad. Go away.

    Swift Stroke
    Rating. For crying out loud with +rating. So many options but nooo: another formula.

    Find the Path
    Either find a way to keep people from ridiculous stacking without actually using LI or change it into temporary, but very decent buff to speed that forces cooldown on FtP afterwards. You are tired, after all.

    * When it's about value of melee crits or chance for melee crits, I feel getting a clean slate would be better option. If we ever get melee options, I wouldn't want some ancient Legacy to reduce revamp magnitude.

    One disclaimer about rating legacies: I am aware that with introduction of "get +1 Legacy slot", value of +rating legacy will probably rise, since we won't get enough points to max even base number of Legacies anyway; something like slotting a passive bonus. But really, why exactly should we bother with item that looks and smells like "storebought or lootbox in a different skin" to get passives other classes can already have...
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Aug 24 2012 at 09:42 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    891
    I've always wanted to try a melee build with those melee crit legs so see what we're really capable of. I flirted with doing it before ROR but balked when you'd have to have melee crafted relics and build up might. But now that we don't I wonder what it would be like. Has anyone ever tried it?

  4. #4
    Never tried it, but when i went through bravvon mine in dunland i bassiclly had to kill everything in there with melee due to sheer induction knockback. Despite walking around with a 60 2nd ager with no points in DPS i found my skills quite respectable. but is suspect having a maxed Bleed chance on low cut, getting Imp Scourging blow part way through, and a maxed Agile Rejoiner legacy played a buig pat in that. Still i may experiment more when i get chance myself. I'm begining to think after that experiance that with legacies we could do some suprising melee DPS. Offhands might be partly to blame though. If you have an offhand thats well above the level of your bow your melee skill and melee AA damage is going to be markedly higher. Still might apply at the stage where you've only got a 3rd or 2nd age bow if the offhands are 1st age quality.

  5. #5
    Power consumption is rather limiting factor - and you could add some of skills being rather "inconvenient" to use, failing to connect etc. If we ignore both, damage is not bad - but at the same time nothing amazing due to generally long animation times.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    216
    i have a weapon with full ranked dps legacy and melee crit multi and i can assure that dazing blow does its nice chunk of damage in the moors with it

    the problem is that the other 4 dual wielding melee skills we have suffer from a built in damage reduction (80% main hand 60% offhand) i guess i could rez my old dead thread which was a petition to remove such a penalty....
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sulking in the Corner...
    Posts
    1,369
    Well, some suggestions for new ones:

    Ranged Weapon Legacies
    Swift Bow: Third Arrow Damage - At max tier, the third shot deals the same damage as the first.
    Dazing Blow: Daze Duration - Increases the duration of the daze up to an extra 10s.
    Penetrating Shot: Devastate Damage - Increases the % of devastate damage the shot does up to an extra 25%.
    Bow Inductions - Why not? Have another option to reduce all bow inductions by up to 10%.

    Melee Weapon Legacies
    Stealth Level - Up to +5 (I want this back!)
    Blood Arrow: Devastate Damage - Same as Penetrating Shot (25%), gives a little bit more rotation customisation.
    Agile Rejoinder: Initial Heal - Increases the initial heal of Agile Rejoinder by 300% maximum (Over 500 morale).
    Offhand Damage - Increases the % damage of the offhand weapon for all melee skills.
    Press Onward % Heal - Increases the healing for Morale+Power of Press Onward by 50% maximum.
    Press Onward: Induction Time - Reduces Induction to 1s maximum.

    Just some ideas because I needed to pass the time.
    Last edited by zalladi; Aug 24 2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Added more for time wasting
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kannagi <mine>
    Posts
    3,809
    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    I've always wanted to try a melee build with those melee crit legs so see what we're really capable of. I flirted with doing it before ROR but balked when you'd have to have melee crafted relics and build up might. But now that we don't I wonder what it would be like. Has anyone ever tried it?
    I did shortly after MoM launch. Had a L59 2nd Age axe with solid melee legacies (the L59 axes were 2.6 speed, so had much higher base damage than L60s) and a fairly solid melee-centric build. Power consumption was terrible, and DPS was very low (the limited skill selection and stupid-long cooldowns leads to horrendous cooldown throttling). At the time, you were better off spamming 1-1-2 than trying to do anything involving melee.

    As much as I'd like to say the recent changes might have made it better, I don't see it happening. Even if your damage is now based off Agility, you're still running up against an extremely poor skill selection, long cooldowns, stupid Power costs, low base damage skills, and low base damage weapons. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
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