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  1. #1

    IDOME needs a buff/become non-legendary?

    To start with, im not good with numbers and so one. This is more about what I feel. I could be wrong.


    Back in the lvl50s and SoA. The usual end-items had its highest stat around ~30 (vit,might etc) IDOME had 50 on all stats.
    The scaling on the items since then have increased much more than IDOME's?. Now a regular end item got its highest stat around ~120-130 as max, while idome gives 75.

    So in short. Back @ lvl 50, it actually felt legendary because it gave higher numbers than you could get on any item. Now, it doesn't really feel legendary, it's not as good as how it was in SoA?

    That's why I think IDOME should either scale higher. Lets say +4 on all stats per lvl. That would be +150 on all stats at 75.
    Or have aditional effects, such as mitigations for example.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    This is a great thought, as for something changing along these lines... I think it will stay a thought.
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  3. #3
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    Thumbs up

    I could sign that
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexN View Post
    To start with, im not good with numbers and so one. This is more about what I feel. I could be wrong.

    Back in the lvl50s and SoA. The usual end-items had its highest stat around ~30 (vit,might etc) IDOME had 50 on all stats.

    The scaling on the items since then have increased much more than IDOME's?. Now a regular end item got its highest stat around ~120-130 as max, while idome gives 75.

    So in short. Back @ lvl 50, it actually felt legendary because it gave higher numbers than you could get on any item. Now, it doesn't really feel legendary, it's not as good as how it was in SoA?

    That's why I think IDOME should either scale higher. Lets say +4 on all stats per lvl. That would be +150 on all stats at 75.
    You're overlooking that the best items in the pre-RoI era tended to feature all five main stats (Vitality, Might, Agility, Will, Fate), while current itemization usually results in gear with only two. Sub-65 jewelry and armour had stats such as 42/42/21/21/21 whereas level 75 top-tier items tend to have just two stats which tend to look like 122/61. Sometimes we'll find three stats, like 98/32/32. Never all five. If you add up the totals for ALL stats, IDOME remains very powerful, providing a total of 375 to main stats. I can think of no single item currently in game that provides more than 200 in total stat bonuses. True, we no longer benefit from "off-stats" as much as we did pre-RoI, but all five stats benefit all classes in many ways. I feel IDOME remains a very powerful buff -- particularly when applied across six characters! One buff that provides 2,250 stat bonuses to a full fellowship is not to be discounted.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexN View Post
    Or have aditional effects, such as mitigations for example.
    Don't forget that all those pure stats do provide a boost to mitigations. Remember: stats on their own do nothing. Vitality, for example, doesn't do a thing directly -- the benefits are from morale, mitigations, and resistances. Every player in the fellowship gains a bonus of 300 to both physical and tactical mitigation from the IDOME buff, in addition to many, many other incremental benefits such as more morale and power, higher physical and tactical masteries, higher in-combat regen, increased block/parry/evade, higher crit ratings, and higher resistances. All that--and more!--from one easy-to-use, no-cost buff.

    I still see many captains providing this buff in end-game content so it must be scaling just fine. Occasionally--when a fight requires a burst of outgoing damage--a captain will remove IDOME in favor of Oathbreakers (I do that myself for certain instances). It seems to me that IDOME is in need of no tweaks if it remains in such widespread use. Obviously, it will need to scale as we level to 85, but I believe that is already planned.
    Last edited by Dark_Toad; Aug 21 2012 at 03:12 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000001854b/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [FONT=times new roman][COLOR=#FFFFE0]Known alts on Meneldor:[/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982798155/"]Palandramir[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Hunter ~[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982929667/"]Talagant[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Minstrel ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/169749/145241087982745229/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Chiton[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Guardian[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#add8e6]
    [/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982729798/"][COLOR=#daa520]Filbert[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6]: 75 Minstrel[/COLOR] [COLOR=#add8e6]~[/COLOR][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982808928/"] Dakkri[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 71 Guardian ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087983296677/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Stammel[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Captain
    [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983521225/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Elaichi[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 65 Loremaster ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983541171/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Tribble[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 66 Warden ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983630184/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Caper[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 64 Burglar [/FONT][/COLOR]

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  5. #5
    Maybe the issue is that Fellowship-Brother and one of the capstones are so good, the other three legendaries all invariably end up fighting for that last slot.

    I can see IDOME and Oathbreakers both being valuable under certain circumstances. Even Shield of the Dunedain could be very useful (my main's a Guard and I love throwing legacied Shield-Wall around). But I only ever end up traiting one at a time (usually Oathies): there's simply no room to double up here.
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  6. #6
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    I think it's right around where it needs to be. Not so amazing that it can't be unslotted, but usually slotted unless it's a raid DPS race, in which case, I'll swap it out for Oathies.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexN View Post
    Lets say +4 on all stats per lvl. That would be +150 on all stats at 75.

    Any thoughts?
    your math is a bit off

    4 * 75 = 300

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Toad View Post
    Text
    Oh, that was some number I didn't thought about.

    A short question: Does IDOME still makes as big change as it did when we were at the 50's?


    @catisa. My bad, I was thinking it was 50 all the time untill lvl 50+, so 4 * 25 + 50.
    Last edited by TexN; Aug 22 2012 at 05:13 PM.

  9. #9
    I found this to be a good thread showing the value of the stat increases of IDOME. Most notable are a 1.3ish % increase to dps, and the morale bonus the rest is pretty meh.

    As a whole a gestalt value can only be guessed at since so far no one has found a way to add the value of each stat increase into a total sum. I'm unimpressed by each individual increase so I preceive the total to also be unimpressive, while others perceive a higher total value.
    Last edited by Armitas; Aug 21 2012 at 06:01 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexN View Post
    A short question: Does IDOME still makes as big change as it did when we were at the 50's?
    Yes and no.

    I'm not sure there's a simple nor accurate answer. The fundamental changes to stat mechanics that arrived with RoI make this an apples-to-oranges comparison. Hardcore min/maxers can likely answer this better than I can.

    Pre-RoI, many characters were already up against the stat-cap for their primary attributes so IDOME would be wasted to a degree. To counteract this, many raiding characters intentionally left their stats below cap, in anticipation of receiving the IDOME buff.

    Now that we have no caps on our primary stats, IDOME is never wasted, but for primary attributes has less of a percentage effect than at prior level caps. At level 65, the impact of bumping, say, Vitality from 600 to 650 represented more of a percentage improvement than it does today increasing Vitality from 2,000 to 2,075 (for a warden or guardian).

    Probably the best answer is that pre-RoI, raiding character builds were often designed in anticipation of the IDOME buff. Nowadays, IDOME is not considered a necessity so much as "nice to have but not critical". Or so has been my experience...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000001854b/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [FONT=times new roman][COLOR=#FFFFE0]Known alts on Meneldor:[/COLOR][/FONT][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982798155/"]Palandramir[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Hunter ~[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982929667/"]Talagant[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Minstrel ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/169749/145241087982745229/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Chiton[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Guardian[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#add8e6]
    [/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982729798/"][COLOR=#daa520]Filbert[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6]: 75 Minstrel[/COLOR] [COLOR=#add8e6]~[/COLOR][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087982808928/"] Dakkri[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 71 Guardian ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/304336/145241087983296677/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Stammel[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 75 Captain
    [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983521225/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Elaichi[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 65 Loremaster ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983541171/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Tribble[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 66 Warden ~ [/FONT][/COLOR][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/959916/145241087983630184/"][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=verdana]Caper[/FONT][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=#ADD8E6][FONT=verdana]: 64 Burglar [/FONT][/COLOR]

    [COLOR=#d3d3d3][SIZE=1]Gigabyte X58A-UD5 | Intel Core i7-950 | 12 GB Corsair Dominator DDR3 1600MHz | Gigabyte GTX 670 |[/SIZE]
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  11. #11
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    I remember that when I first got IDoME back in SoA days, in '07, it was truly Legendary! It really made a Captain a star. I wholeheartedly agree with the original poster of this thread - IDoME either needs to scale higher, or should not be a legendary skill anymore. Makes sense to me.

    Something else that bothers me a lot with In Defense of Middle-earth: This skill used to be a buff. It annoyed people that we had to re-cast it every 5 min, so we asked for an aura, or a longer duration (like the 30 min on our other buffs). But when it was a buff every Captain was used to automatically re-casting it frequently, and we easily kept our whole fellowship buffed with IDoME 100% of the time.

    When IDoME was changed to an aura, after years of being a buff, it was given a small radius. The way it works now people always move in and out of range, and in many places you cannot keep the buff on your whole fellowship at all, because of the spacing of where people need to stand for certain fights. This really made the skill way less effective than it used to be, with the only upside being that you don't have to re-cast it.

    But there were so many other ways to address the annoyance of the 5 min re-cast that would allow the buff to continue being easily maintained on your full fellowship 100% of the time.

    a) Just make it a buff again, but with a 30 min duration, the same as Motivating Speech and Tactics buffs.
    b) Leave it as an aura, but extend the radius to 50m the same as all our Shield/Song/Blade-brother skills.
    c) Leave it as a 30m radius aura, but change it so the buff is retained for 5 min when you leave aura range.
    d) other good ideas : )

    If you run a program that makes a ding sound to notify you every time one of your fellows loses IDoME you will hear a constant stream of alerts. While people can bicker over how significant they personally feel the loss is from the old buff to the new aura, the bottom line is this used to be easily maintained on all our fellows 100% of the time, and now constantly and continuously is dropped by your fellows. Whether someone thinks that loss is bog or small, IDoME needed an improvement - it definitely didn't need a nerf, not even if you think it's a small nerf. And there are easy ways to return IDoME to full effectiveness.
    History became legend, and legend became myth, and some things that should not have been forgotten were lost...

  12. #12
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    I dunno, I'm of two minds about this. I think there are legitimate reasons to choose either Oathbreakers or IDOME, except for a few cases that clearly break in favour of Oathbreakers. The fact that there are no cases that clearly break toward IDOME, on the other hand, is probably a good indication that IDOME is missing something, even if it's just psychological.

    And, honestly, I do think that the problem is largely psychological. The effect of Oathbreakers is something you can see, and not just because there are totally rad-looking ghosts that pop up when you click the skill. You can see the target's health bar going down so much more quickly while it's up. IDOME doesn't offer either kind of satisfaction.

    Suggestion 1: IDOME makes the Captain glow faintly. It would be similar to the spotlight effect on our banner, but much dimmer and covering a larger area. No, seriously. Come on, that would be cool.

    Suggestion 2: Have it gain an additional bonus when under the effect of certain other Captain skills. Like, say, when In Harm's Way is active, the IDOME aura gives an extra +X/lvl to each stat. And/or, when Last Stand is active, the IDOME aura gains a bonus to Physical and Tactical Mitigation. The idea there is to make IDOME enhance the Captain's other signature skills, rewarding you (and your fellowship!) for playing in a more leading-from-the-front, Defender-of-Middle-Earth style.

    That could make IDOME nifty enough to be a solid choice without unseating either of the skills it's fighting for a slot with.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
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  13. #13
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    I will agree that IDoME should become non-legendary.
    But I am fine with it remaining our worst legendary, so that it's easy for me to decide what to leave at home.
    105 (Captain, Champion)

 

 

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