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  1. #1

    Strength Stance, An Idea

    One of the biggest issues hunters allways face in Solo PVE, (and to degree's, PVP), is that once somthing gets in close it gets exponentiolly harder to deal with it due to the assosiated DPS dive from induction knockbacks and our general frailty.

    If the enemy is in rough shape that's generally not an isue, but if they're in good shae, have freinds, or somthing else otherwise intervenes to make their health not dissappea as fast as expected after they reach us it becomes exponentiolly harder, eventually impossibble.

    Whats really needed is a viable, (but balanced), method of generating focus witout inductions. At that point it becomes a straight DPS race, with the hunter having a marked advantage all of a sudden. Natrually inductionless focus generation needs a catch. The idea the devs suggested long ago is nmake it be done via melee skills. I agree with this. Our inductions are a huge part of the tradeoff for our range advantage.

    Hunters however didn't want to sacrafice one of their trait lines to get it though. However i recently hit on an idea. Instead of making it trait based, what if it was stance based. Hunters allready consider strength stance pretty usless so it's not stepping on toes as much and may be more pallattable.

    2 seperate variations on the idea:

    Option 1:

    Stance Strength:

    All Melee Skills +1 Focus on Use
    All Melee SKills +1Focus on Critical Hit


    Option 2:

    Stance Strength:

    All Melee Skills +1 Focus on Use
    All Melee SKills +1Focus on Critical Hit
    -100% all Inductions
    All Focus generating ranged skills now cost Focus to use instead of generating it, (1 to 1 convershion)



    Option 1 lets you mix and match the rnages and melee skils to generate focus, at the cost of critical chance and accurracy, (precishion stance).

    Options 2 gives up far more rnaged firepower as you need melee to generate focus, but makes your melee range power much greater since inductions skills typiclly deal more damage per use than normal focus skills


    I preffer option 2, but option 1 would sit ok too.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    ?!

    I am not exactly sure what you're talking about. My level 75 hunter has no problem with dealing with three level 75 mobs at the same time. If you know how to play a Hunter, there shouldn't be an issue with being mobbed (use RoT, Bard's Arrow, etc.) or with focus. Focus generation is rather easy for a hunter, TBH; Blindside gives three pips on its own. Quickshot is a rapid way to boost your focus as well. While it does have an induction time, it's not like the end of the world. If you have traited properly, Precision stance automatically generates focus.

    TL;DR: Learn to play and trait well.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PuruPanda View Post
    I am not exactly sure what you're talking about. My level 75 hunter has no problem with dealing with three level 75 mobs at the same time. If you know how to play a Hunter, there shouldn't be an issue with being mobbed (use RoT, Bard's Arrow, etc.) or with focus. Focus generation is rather easy for a hunter, TBH; Blindside gives three pips on its own. Quickshot is a rapid way to boost your focus as well. While it does have an induction time, it's not like the end of the world. If you have traited properly, Precision stance automatically generates focus.

    TL;DR: Learn to play and trait well.
    Pretty sure the OP wasn't questioning hunter viability, but rather how useless strength stance has become when compared to precision. As of right now precision does more damage because of its inductions and focus gen. Strength stance has lost its identity. There's a lot of trait lines that are just terrible right now that turbine hasn't addressed (hunter red/yellow, burglar gambler, LM blue, minstrel harmony)

  4. #4
    Disagree that burglar gambler is terrible. It's just different. Mischief is far, far worse; I can cc things just as well in Gambler while adding epic debuffs and decent positional DPS. Personally on my burg I'm happiest in gambler, then QK, then mischief. As for minnie Harmony, many minnies heal Orthanc in 4y/3b for the added buffs (even though they're doing so in Melody stance), and mine is traited 4b/3y.

    The terrible hunter trait line is pretty universally acknowledged to be yellow, and then only because you have to equip some simply worthless traits in order to get to the good stuff that comes with 5 yellow. Personally I consider only Strong Intimidation, Barbed Hindrance, and Combat Traps to be even remotely useful (and use SI and CT in the moors).

    Heart of the Bard - useless. Stealthy Shot - you'll have nerfed your DPS enough that threat isn't a problem.

    And regarding the OP - our CC abilities are plenty adequate to deal with pulling 3 or 4 landscape mobs, particularly if you trait for Rain of Arrows spam resulting in chimp-level AOE at range Don't forget your slows - Low Cut, Barbed Arrow, strength Quick Shot - as well as your fears, roots and stuns. In fact, strength Quick Shot slow and Low Cut are the keys (for me anyway) of soloing Legbarthil, the NCF first boss.
    Last edited by Aedfrith; Aug 17 2012 at 10:24 AM.

  5. #5
    I am not exactly sure what you're talking about. My level 75 hunter has no problem with dealing with three level 75 mobs at the same time. If you know how to play a Hunter, there shouldn't be an issue with being mobbed (use RoT, Bard's Arrow, etc.) or with focus. Focus generation is rather easy for a hunter, TBH; Blindside gives three pips on its own. Quickshot is a rapid way to boost your focus as well. While it does have an induction time, it's not like the end of the world. If you have traited properly, Precision stance automatically generates focus.

    TL;DR: Learn to play and trait well.
    How about learn to read first.

    I never said a hunter can't deal with multi-mob situations, i said it's not that easy, even 4 mobs on my other highish level toons isn't a major concern for me. I do break a sweat a littile, but i could often handle an extra mob or 3 on my other toons before i get that badly off. Hunters are allways about DPS racing the enemy down, killing them faster than they kill us. But once they get in close and start whacking us they knocback our inductions. Longer inductions means less induction skill DPS and less focus generation. The enemy simply hitting on us lowers our DPS output which tilts the DPS race against us. With this option we ow have a use for strength stance that dosen't overlap precishion, and lets us generate and utalise focus in a way that means getting hit no longer penalises our DPS output.

    It makes the solo, and PVP experiance that much bette

  6. #6
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    Hunters are already a pretty OP class, so I don't see why we need to get a boost. While I understand that strength stance should be made at least slightly useful, I still don't think it's necessary. You can say what you want about focus generation needing to be higher and strength stance needing to be better, but that's really quite irrelevant. Once RoR comes out, hunters won't really need - or shouldn't, at least - need to worry much about melee after level 75. The hunter update notes that came out recently also make us a much more effective class, IMO. Making strength stance do something really useful is just going to make the Hunter class OP; hunters are already considered pretty OP and for noobs, so we don't need to mess with our reputation anymore. In summary, there's no point in doing anything to strength stance as it becomes a non-issue and will make our class OP. Just learn to play with what you have.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PuruPanda View Post
    Hunters are already a pretty OP class, so I don't see why we need to get a boost. While I understand that strength stance should be made at least slightly useful, I still don't think it's necessary. You can say what you want about focus generation needing to be higher and strength stance needing to be better, but that's really quite irrelevant. Once RoR comes out, hunters won't really need - or shouldn't, at least - need to worry much about melee after level 75. The hunter update notes that came out recently also make us a much more effective class, IMO. Making strength stance do something really useful is just going to make the Hunter class OP; hunters are already considered pretty OP and for noobs, so we don't need to mess with our reputation anymore. In summary, there's no point in doing anything to strength stance as it becomes a non-issue and will make our class OP. Just learn to play with what you have.
    Says the player who (according to the admittedly inaccurate forum software) primarily runs solo, has no raid amour, does not PvMP, and has no other toons at cap.
    And welcome to the Hunter forums (and the LOTRO forums in general)

    Now, this may come as a shock to you, but when the term OP is used, it typically is used in relation to other playable classes.
    So to what other playable class is the hunter considered OP? Warleader?
    Admittedly, the hunter is a solo god compared to the captain (if only because a cappy cannot kill something in a reasonable amount of time)... but for solo is also far beneath the burg, mini, champ, and warden. I will not attempt to place the guardian on the solo scale due to the massive update in a few weeks, but let us be very clear: The Hunter is NOT OP. Now, the hunter is easy to do a mediocre job (where as many other classes are easy to do a bad job). The hunter does have ports (which ARE quite handy). What can we do well? DPS... but we currently have 2-3 class competitors for that position, soon to be 3-4. All of which have more usable primary/backup/support roles
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d2160000000aea6e/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strikerin View Post
    Now, this may come as a shock to you, but when the term OP is used, it typically is used in relation to other playable classes.
    So to what other playable class is the hunter considered OP? Warleader?
    Admittedly, the hunter is a solo god compared to the captain (if only because a cappy cannot kill something in a reasonable amount of time)... but for solo is also far beneath the burg, mini, champ, and warden. I will not attempt to place the guardian on the solo scale due to the massive update in a few weeks, but let us be very clear: The Hunter is NOT OP. Now, the hunter is easy to do a mediocre job (where as many other classes are easy to do a bad job). The hunter does have ports (which ARE quite handy). What can we do well? DPS... but we currently have 2-3 class competitors for that position, soon to be 3-4. All of which have more usable primary/backup/support roles
    Maybe I (somehow) have only seen noobs playing level 75 toons, but I've had no problem going toe-to-toe with other classes in PvE. PvMP is a different story (I was VIP for a short time, went to the Moors once, and got railroaded), but I haven't had any real trouble with PvE. The classes you mentioned are good solo against the elites and such in LL Gorge; my hunter, and many other hunters, I'm sure, find it pretty difficult to easily kill mobs with 70k+ morale. However, for *normal* mobs, and mobs under 40k morale, I find I can deal with them quickly and efficiently. In response to your statement about my lack of raid armor, I lack the Isengard instance cluster because I'm pretty much broke. :P Besides, the Isengard armor pretty much turns a hunter into a glass cannon, which is not how I like to play my hunter. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong, but I like pulling two, maybe three, mobs at a time and not being smashed to tiny little pieces within seconds. :P ANYWAYS, I've never played with the super 1337 gamers on this game, but I find that a well-played Hunter surpasses every other class - if not played by pros, of course - in most PvE situations. I consider that to mean that Hunters are pretty OP. Everyone has their own opinion, of course, and mine is that we are nearly OP, if not already there, compared to other classes. Now, if Turbine would just make our medium armor worth something again, THEN we'd be OP. Or maybe they should give us heavy armor for the Gondor expansion, that would work, too.

  9. #9
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    Regardless on how OP you feel the hunter class atm, The fact remains that Precision is the only real viable, useful stance atm. Having trait lines that are different and useful just plain make sense and to argue against them being effective due to how uber you are is very odd. I scratch my head when I read things like this.

    But as far as the idea on melee skills bumping the focus gain in strength stance. Interesting. not sure about the -100% induction +focus cost thing but it could work... Might be too powerful but might be a bit of fun.
    [CENTER][URL="http://www.guildcafe.com/member/tattle"][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000001529/01001/signature.png]Tattle[/charsig][/URL]

    [/CENTER]

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Strikerin View Post
    Now, this may come as a shock to you, but when the term OP is used, it typically is used in relation to other playable classes.
    So to what other playable class is the hunter considered OP? Warleader?
    Admittedly, the hunter is a solo god compared to the captain (if only because a cappy cannot kill something in a reasonable amount of time)... but for solo is also far beneath the burg, mini, champ, and warden. I will not attempt to place the guardian on the solo scale due to the massive update in a few weeks, but let us be very clear: The Hunter is NOT OP. Now, the hunter is easy to do a mediocre job (where as many other classes are easy to do a bad job). The hunter does have ports (which ARE quite handy). What can we do well? DPS... but we currently have 2-3 class competitors for that position, soon to be 3-4. All of which have more usable primary/backup/support roles
    Compared to my hunter my cappy is a rock thank you very much. I'm leveling my hunter through dunland right now, (my cappys allready been through and sitting on 75), and the range of situations he has to run away from that my cappy just luaghed at and kept on hacking is quite noticable, (there are several "infamous", to me anyway, area's where high mob desnity or extreme strength mobs make for a high tendancy to get into a bind on any toon via unexpected adds and the like). She may not kill as fast as my hunter, but come hail or shine my cappy just keeps going and going. My hunter whatches his back like a hawk and preys nothing goes wrong or very quickly he may find a quick retreat the only viable option.

 

 

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