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  1. #1
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    Development approach to hunters as compared to other classes

    The LM Dev Diary just came out and it looks very nice for LMs. Forget for a moment just how well thought out every almost every aspect of the LM class is; 3 distinct trait-line roles, good for soloing and small groups, invaluable in raids and good in PvMP. You can't say the hunter has all those things going for them. But that's not the main focus of this post.

    My main point is looking at the way the developers handle changing a popular trait used by most player in each class. The two traits we'll be looking at are pre-RoI Strong Draw for the hunter and Sword and Staff for Lore-Masters. Each time these traits were changed the developer stated that nearly every player would slot these traits and never unslot them. They were obviously very important to each class. So what happened when they were changed:

    Strong Draw: Developer says that the trait "isn't interesting" and removes the key component of what made the trait desirable, while simultaneously making the skill it effected, Pen Shot, the most desirable damage skill available to hunters, so even a buff to the skill is reduced because of the nerf to the trait. Then the dev states that we'll never see anything that resembles the old Strong Draw trait ever again, yet the very same effect shows up on Orthanc Armor upon release of RoI. Grind for what we took away from you muahahah! (now with the level cap increase we'll lose the utility of our Orthanc armor, effectively taking the trait away from us a second time.)

    Sword and Staff: Developer says that the trait "isn't interesting" and splits it into two better things- first the duel wielding of a sword is now a passive skill you can train at level 40, second, the legendary skill gets a great boost in Morale and Parry rating granted.

    Maybe this is why truly experienced hunters are unhappy with the changes to the hunter class. We see what other classes are getting (well thought out changes, increased effectiveness in traditional roles as well as solid secondary and tertiary roles) and we ask why can't we get these changes? All you apologist out there can call me a noob and say I'm QQing, but I've had a hunter main since the original beta testing. I've been through all the buffs and nerfs along the way. I know that with the RoR changes, this too shall pass. I'm not going to stop playing my hunter, I'm not going to stop raiding. I just wish that hunters weren't such a negelected class out of fear, incompetence or plain developer disinterest.
    Tycho Gilcrist - 85 Man Hunter - The Noldor

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwk1138 View Post
    Maybe this is why truly experienced hunters are unhappy with the changes to the hunter class. We see what other classes are getting (well thought out changes, increased effectiveness in traditional roles as well as solid secondary and tertiary roles) and we ask why can't we get these changes? All you apologist out there can call me a noob and say I'm QQing, but I've had a hunter main since the original beta testing. I've been through all the buffs and nerfs along the way. I know that with the RoR changes, this too shall pass. I'm not going to stop playing my hunter, I'm not going to stop raiding. I just wish that hunters weren't such a negelected class out of fear, incompetence or plain developer disinterest.
    I don’t think you are QQing, but what I do think is you answer your own question within the paragraph and the answer is very unflattering, damming really. (I bolded it).

    The problem is you continue to play the toon. So if I am producing a good or service and people are complaining they don’t like it but continue to purchase and use the goods what’s the real message? The real message is that the person consuming the good doesn’t equate their consumption to the quality of the product. One could conclude you, and anyone else who is unhappy with the hunter doesn’t really mean it, otherwise why, after so long (is it months or years?) of unsatisfying changes and attention do you continue to play/consume it?

    The players must take ownership of their choices and understand the core mechanic at work here. Turbine supplies a product you choose to consume. If you are unhappy with the product and continue to choose to consume it, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year…. That’s your fault. You aren’t sending the correct message. A 5 page thread on a message board in a small corner of the web is a very small inconvience when the customer continues to consume the product despite their displeasure.

    Last edited by Thorgrum; Aug 15 2012 at 11:49 AM.


  3. #3
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    As an LM I can't agree with some of your assessments of the class. Firstly, our Blue line is extremely sub-par, on a level with the Hunter's yellow line from what I can tell. Yes, we do solo fairly well, but in small groups we have major issues effectively filling any role. Our heals aren't quite good enough, going debuffs is too much, which leaves us with only DPS. And considering it's almost entirely AoE, it is not viable in certain instances(T2 Fangorn's Edge for instance).

    As for raids, I don't run them often so I can't comment much. I will say though that you would have at most two LMs, as they do not stack well at all.

    On PvMP, due to Audacity we're in pretty much the same situation as Hunters. Long inductions(perhaps even longer) and squishy armour puts us squarely in the 'burst damage or die' camp. Certain advantages we have yes, stun immunity and a potent self-heal, but that's about it.

    I haven't played a Hunter in ages so I can't and won't judge the rest of your post, just thought I'd address your description of the LM's current situation(obviously my own opinion).
    [LEFT][COLOR=#ffffff]Morlenil Barkolomew Turmuz Shurz Gruubluk

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  4. #4
    This is a great example of how the dev's approach to hunters is different compared to how they approach other classes. This is the thing that really annoys me and is one reason why i think hunters are one of turbines least favorite classes (if not the least favorite). Also a thing i noticed that hunters got 1 new skill,and 2 skill Improvement while LM's got 2 new skills and 1 improvement. I personally think that New Skills>Improved Skills, most of hunters improved skills help a little but new skills generally are more useful because they fill in holes which hunters are missing and if you didn't use a skill previously and they improve it unless its a great change it isn't going to make you use it more.

    +rep for great OP post
    Last edited by Legonist; Aug 15 2012 at 12:04 PM.
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    The problem is you continue to play the toon. So if I am producing a good or service and people are complaining they don’t like it but continue to purchase and use the goods what’s the real message? The real message is that the person consuming the good doesn’t equate their consumption to the quality of the product. One could conclude you, and anyone else who is unhappy with the hunter doesn’t really mean it, otherwise why, after so long (is it months or years?) of unsatisfying changes and attention do you continue to play/consume it?
    Here's the thing, one player, or even a hundred players, not playing the class wouldn't make any difference to turbine, I can guarantee you that. If you could get all the hunters to stop playing what would that get? Turbine wouldn't change the class, they'd just stop doing ANY development and let it languish, effectively removing it from the game. Posting on these forums is the only good way to effect change, and there have been successes in the past. Your argument saying that it's my fault the developers are not effectively changing the class (when they are obviously making great changes to other classes who all still have a lot of players) is basically saying that victims of crimes are the cause of crimes. It is backwards thinking.
    Tycho Gilcrist - 85 Man Hunter - The Noldor

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwk1138 View Post
    Here's the thing, one player, or even a hundred players, not playing the class wouldn't make any difference to turbine, I can guarantee you that. If you could get all the hunters to stop playing what would that get? Turbine wouldn't change the class, they'd just stop doing ANY development and let it languish, effectively removing it from the game. Posting on these forums is the only good way to effect change, and there have been successes in the past. Your argument saying that it's my fault the developers are not effectively changing the class (when they are obviously making great changes to other classes who all still have a lot of players) is basically saying that victims of crimes are the cause of crimes. It is backwards thinking.
    This reply is extremely subjective and offers a great deal of conjecture. Im not offering you conjecture of any kind with the approach I proposed, merely control. You control the relationship, you are the driver here, the “fuel” as some mockingly proclaim. You couldn’t know for sure any of the scenario’s you just proclaimed/guaranteed but you do know absolutely that you choose to play the hunter despite the shortcomings you illustrate and the displeasure it seems to give you.

    I’m not saying quit, I’m saying perhaps we are to the point where it’s time to recenter the conversation not around what they won’t do for the class, but rather why aren’t they doing it? I think my answer is the reason, why do you think they aren’t making more substantive changes to the class?


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    The problem is you continue to play the toon. If you are unhappy with the product and continue to choose to consume it, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year…. That’s your fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    I’m not saying quit
    Well then I can't figure out what you're saying because it sounds like quit to me.

    This is getting away from my OP, and I probably shouldn't have respond at all, but here we are.

    There are obviously many reasons they aren't making substantive changes to the class. I think one of the largest factors is that if they made changes that would put hunters in line with other classes, every other class and PvMPers would complain that we are now overpowered. Other classes perception of hunters is that we are currently overpowered, and Devs desperately don't want a repeat of the Moria release when hunters were overpowered. Instead of coming up with changes that would balance the class with others, we get band aid fixes, subtle nerfs and useless skills.
    Last edited by lwk1138; Aug 15 2012 at 12:49 PM.
    Tycho Gilcrist - 85 Man Hunter - The Noldor

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwk1138 View Post
    Well then I can't figure out what you're saying because it sounds like quit to me.

    This is getting away from my OP, and I probably shouldn't have respond at all, but here we are.

    There are obviously many reasons they aren't making substantive changes to the class. I think one of the largest factors is that if they made changes that would put hunters in line with other classes, every other class and PvMPers would complain that we are now overpowered. Other classes perception of hunters is that we are currently overpowered, and Devs desperately don't want a repeat of the Moria release when hunters were overpowered. Instead of coming up with changes that would balance the class with others, we get band aid fixes, subtle nerfs and useless skills.
    Perhaps you shouldn’t have replied to me, I just assumed you wanted to engage in a discussion. Might I suggest in the future if you want more control over the content you set up a blog? (this point wasn’t made to be sarcastic but rather illustrate the broader point of my posts, control).

    I’ll exit I know this is a hard one for hunter players but the class isn’t getting a major rework or significant attention because the issues aren’t a major problem (Hunters work really well as is), and people continue to play them for years, despite their unhappiness. Why any company would change a model that works, is beyond me. I will continue to read the thread though, anticipating that someone is able to articulate that answer.


  9. #9
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    Apples ≠ Oranges
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwk1138 View Post
    Here's the thing, one player, or even a hundred players, not playing the class wouldn't make any difference to turbine, I can guarantee you that. If you could get all the hunters to stop playing what would that get? Turbine wouldn't change the class, they'd just stop doing ANY development and let it languish, effectively removing it from the game. Posting on these forums is the only good way to effect change, and there have been successes in the past.
    As each update passes, I agree with this line of reasoning more and more. I think Turbine wants to kill hunters. And they are trying to get rid of us through attrition. Maybe there's a Gondorian Archer class they want to take our place (and make us buy in the store). Maybe' there'd have been a Mirkwood Archer, a Dunlending Archer or a Rohan Archer if they could just manage to reduce the numbers enough to make it feasible. I agree its paranoid, but it's truly becoming the only explanation.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Why any company would change a model that works, is beyond me.
    True enough.

    Running instances like CD, Uru and the Rift for weapons was popular. They could have added a weapon that falls off of mobs that you have to grind up instead, but why change what works?

    Great Barrows, Fornost, Helegrod were asked to be scaled for years as they were. They could just scale the instances as they are, or they can chop them up and make them unattractive, but why change what works?

    The Moors in Shadows of Angmar were vary popular and around Book 14 achieved a general consensus of balance. We could add a critical and devastate mechanic to that and destroy the balance for the next 4 years, but why change what works?

    For the first 3 years of the game, we were able to open chests when not being there on a toon that killed the boss (alt-loot). We could stop this practice and make things difficult for smaller kins in getting raids fille, but why change what works?

    In shadows of Angmar you could participate in any raid content with any armor and enjoy a level of effectiveness. We could add radiance to that, but why change what works?

    After realizing our mistake with radiance and removing it from the game after making the players suffer with it for 3 years, we could leave things as is, or we can do it all over again in the moors with Audacity. But why change what works?

    After creating long, immersive challenging instances in Shadows of Angmar fit for any player style, we could keep things this way, or make them short and too easy or impossibly difficult. Killing the immersion and making them a chore. But why change what works?

    After settin up a class system where every player on that class has their own unique role and utility, we could introduce two new classes to muddy those waters for the next 4 years and make everyone unsure what their role is. But why change what works?

    After setting up a class system where every player on that class has their own unique role and utility, we could introduce trait paths the muddy those waters for the next 4 years and make everyone unsure what their role is. But why change what works?

    After having a barter system where killing bosses equals gaining gear which meant that raids were run for the achievement and reward, instead of the grind, we could instead have players identify the most expedient instance, or wing of the instance to gain the gear removing the achieve and reward factors entirely. But why change what works?

    If after faithfully recreating in breathtaking scale the expansive world of middle earth, we require our players to move through these zones on the way to instances to remind them of the beauty and detail of their environment. Or we could have them sit endlessly in 21st hall, galtrev or standgard staring at the same old walls as we wait for the next instance to port into, and out of. But why change what works?

    Leveling is a tutorial on how to learn to play your class at endgame where each instance you encountered further trained you on how to play your character until finally when you reached cap you were at least in some way prepared for the more difficult challenges to come. Or we could help you get to level cap in 2 weeks of solid play going through 5 zones. But why change what works?

    Crafting has always been an intregal part of LOTRO and a mini game in itself for some of our players. Crafted armor and weapons, cloaks, jewelry and consumables. We could simply crafting taking out the mini game, and we could obsoletize it so its only value is most convenient when leveling or having not raid yet. But why change what works?

    The store is for convenience, not advantage. But why change what works?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    True enough.

    Running instances like CD, Uru and the Rift for weapons was popular. They could have added a weapon that falls off of mobs that you have to grind up instead, but why change what works?

    Great Barrows, Fornost, Helegrod were asked to be scaled for years as they were. They could just scale the instances as they are, or they can chop them up and make them unattractive, but why change what works?

    The Moors in Shadows of Angmar were vary popular and around Book 14 achieved a general consensus of balance. We could add a critical and devastate mechanic to that and destroy the balance for the next 4 years, but why change what works?

    For the first 3 years of the game, we were able to open chests when not being there on a toon that killed the boss (alt-loot). We could stop this practice and make things difficult for smaller kins in getting raids fille, but why change what works?

    In shadows of Angmar you could participate in any raid content with any armor and enjoy a level of effectiveness. We could add radiance to that, but why change what works?

    After realizing our mistake with radiance and removing it from the game after making the players suffer with it for 3 years, we could leave things as is, or we can do it all over again in the moors with Audacity. But why change what works?

    After creating long, immersive challenging instances in Shadows of Angmar fit for any player style, we could keep things this way, or make them short and too easy or impossibly difficult. Killing the immersion and making them a chore. But why change what works?

    After settin up a class system where every player on that class has their own unique role and utility, we could introduce two new classes to muddy those waters for the next 4 years and make everyone unsure what their role is. But why change what works?

    After setting up a class system where every player on that class has their own unique role and utility, we could introduce trait paths the muddy those waters for the next 4 years and make everyone unsure what their role is. But why change what works?

    After having a barter system where killing bosses equals gaining gear which meant that raids were run for the achievement and reward, instead of the grind, we could instead have players identify the most expedient instance, or wing of the instance to gain the gear removing the achieve and reward factors entirely. But why change what works?

    If after faithfully recreating in breathtaking scale the expansive world of middle earth, we require our players to move through these zones on the way to instances to remind them of the beauty and detail of their environment. Or we could have them sit endlessly in 21st hall, galtrev or standgard staring at the same old walls as we wait for the next instance to port into, and out of. But why change what works?

    Leveling is a tutorial on how to learn to play your class at endgame where each instance you encountered further trained you on how to play your character until finally when you reached cap you were at least in some way prepared for the more difficult challenges to come. Or we could help you get to level cap in 2 weeks of solid play going through 5 zones. But why change what works?

    Crafting has always been an intregal part of LOTRO and a mini game in itself for some of our players. Crafted armor and weapons, cloaks, jewelry and consumables. We could simply crafting taking out the mini game, and we could obsoletize it so its only value is most convenient when leveling or having not raid yet. But why change what works?

    The store is for convenience, not advantage. But why change what works?
    lol, you are an absolute gem. You have to stop following me around, I cant give you more rep, ive tried. You and Lendas have bled me dry on it...

    Now I'll go and let the QQ continue.


  13. #13
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    You are forgetting the Warden fiasco.

    One dev 'improving' the class, while the whole rest of the dev team undercuts the very basis of the class.

    Result, most all of us stopped playing wardens, and found other classes to enjoy.

    My warden is still just an ore hound. Perhaps one of these days I'll take the time to relearn the class. Maybe soon, when Guardian get broken...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/01203000000148b32/signature.png]Smacx[/charsig]

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    PURE WIN
    +rep for you Sir. Change is inevitable in an MMO, but there are ways to change things well and not so well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Perhaps you shouldn’t have replied to me, I just assumed you wanted to engage in a discussion.
    I did want to engage in a discussion about why the dev team (since they all work on all classes) would alter hunters in very unflattering ways, while making very positive changes to other classes. The specific example I gave is the most recent instance that starkly demostrated the developers attitude toward other classes vs hunters.

    You brought up a lot of good points that should be talked about and I know it's a public forum, but I feel that discussion should happen independantly of the one I was trying to start.
    Last edited by lwk1138; Aug 15 2012 at 02:50 PM.
    Tycho Gilcrist - 85 Man Hunter - The Noldor

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    lol, you are an absolute gem. You have to stop following me around, I cant give you more rep, ive tried. You and Lendas have bled me dry on it...

    Now I'll go and let the QQ continue.
    Ha ha ;-) I think you're following me!!

    Anyway, making that list really depressed me. I wonder why they needed to change the game so much from what it was in SOA. How could they have made so many bad mistakes and changed the culture from what it was. Anyone remember when we actually liked Turbine? I do.

    Now the community team are arrogant big brothers, the dev team is detached, the producers lie to us, and the company seems to be killing our love for the game one turbine point at a time.

    Jesus I mean wow.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    True enough.

    Running instances like CD, Uru and the Rift for weapons was popular. They could have added a weapon that falls off of mobs that you have to grind up instead, but why change what works?

    Great Barrows, Fornost, Helegrod were asked to be scaled for years as they were. They could just scale the instances as they are, or they can chop them up and make them unattractive, but why change what works?

    The Moors in Shadows of Angmar were vary popular and around Book 14 achieved a general consensus of balance. We could add a critical and devastate mechanic to that and destroy the balance for the next 4 years, but why change what works?

    For the first 3 years of the game, we were able to open chests when not being there on a toon that killed the boss (alt-loot). We could stop this practice and make things difficult for smaller kins in getting raids fille, but why change what works?

    In shadows of Angmar you could participate in any raid content with any armor and enjoy a level of effectiveness. We could add radiance to that, but why change what works?

    After realizing our mistake with radiance and removing it from the game after making the players suffer with it for 3 years, we could leave things as is, or we can do it all over again in the moors with Audacity. But why change what works?

    After creating long, immersive challenging instances in Shadows of Angmar fit for any player style, we could keep things this way, or make them short and too easy or impossibly difficult. Killing the immersion and making them a chore. But why change what works?

    After settin up a class system where every player on that class has their own unique role and utility, we could introduce two new classes to muddy those waters for the next 4 years and make everyone unsure what their role is. But why change what works?

    After setting up a class system where every player on that class has their own unique role and utility, we could introduce trait paths the muddy those waters for the next 4 years and make everyone unsure what their role is. But why change what works?

    After having a barter system where killing bosses equals gaining gear which meant that raids were run for the achievement and reward, instead of the grind, we could instead have players identify the most expedient instance, or wing of the instance to gain the gear removing the achieve and reward factors entirely. But why change what works?

    If after faithfully recreating in breathtaking scale the expansive world of middle earth, we require our players to move through these zones on the way to instances to remind them of the beauty and detail of their environment. Or we could have them sit endlessly in 21st hall, galtrev or standgard staring at the same old walls as we wait for the next instance to port into, and out of. But why change what works?

    Leveling is a tutorial on how to learn to play your class at endgame where each instance you encountered further trained you on how to play your character until finally when you reached cap you were at least in some way prepared for the more difficult challenges to come. Or we could help you get to level cap in 2 weeks of solid play going through 5 zones. But why change what works?

    Crafting has always been an intregal part of LOTRO and a mini game in itself for some of our players. Crafted armor and weapons, cloaks, jewelry and consumables. We could simply crafting taking out the mini game, and we could obsoletize it so its only value is most convenient when leveling or having not raid yet. But why change what works?

    The store is for convenience, not advantage. But why change what works?


    this = beauty..... this post is one of the most enriching i have ever seen..... even im marveling... (and im usually critical )








    + Rep






    .

  17. #17
    I wish that that list could be posted on a really obvious sticky in the forums
    RIP Milkmefondly 2014

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    True enough.

    Running instances like CD, Uru and the Rift for weapons was popular. They could have added a weapon that falls off of mobs that you have to grind up instead, but why change what works?

    Great Barrows, Fornost, Helegrod were asked to be scaled for years as they were. They could just scale the instances as they are, or they can chop them up and make them unattractive, but why change what works?

    The Moors in Shadows of Angmar were vary popular and around Book 14 achieved a general consensus of balance. We could add a critical and devastate mechanic to that and destroy the balance for the next 4 years, but why change what works?

    For the first 3 years of the game, we were able to open chests when not being there on a toon that killed the boss (alt-loot). We could stop this practice and make things difficult for smaller kins in getting raids fille, but why change what works?

    In shadows of Angmar you could participate in any raid content with any armor and enjoy a level of effectiveness. We could add radiance to that, but why change what works?

    After realizing our mistake with radiance and removing it from the game after making the players suffer with it for 3 years, we could leave things as is, or we can do it all over again in the moors with Audacity. But why change what works?

    After creating long, immersive challenging instances in Shadows of Angmar fit for any player style, we could keep things this way, or make them short and too easy or impossibly difficult. Killing the immersion and making them a chore. But why change what works?

    After settin up a class system where every player on that class has their own unique role and utility, we could introduce two new classes to muddy those waters for the next 4 years and make everyone unsure what their role is. But why change what works?

    After setting up a class system where every player on that class has their own unique role and utility, we could introduce trait paths the muddy those waters for the next 4 years and make everyone unsure what their role is. But why change what works?

    After having a barter system where killing bosses equals gaining gear which meant that raids were run for the achievement and reward, instead of the grind, we could instead have players identify the most expedient instance, or wing of the instance to gain the gear removing the achieve and reward factors entirely. But why change what works?

    If after faithfully recreating in breathtaking scale the expansive world of middle earth, we require our players to move through these zones on the way to instances to remind them of the beauty and detail of their environment. Or we could have them sit endlessly in 21st hall, galtrev or standgard staring at the same old walls as we wait for the next instance to port into, and out of. But why change what works?

    Leveling is a tutorial on how to learn to play your class at endgame where each instance you encountered further trained you on how to play your character until finally when you reached cap you were at least in some way prepared for the more difficult challenges to come. Or we could help you get to level cap in 2 weeks of solid play going through 5 zones. But why change what works?

    Crafting has always been an intregal part of LOTRO and a mini game in itself for some of our players. Crafted armor and weapons, cloaks, jewelry and consumables. We could simply crafting taking out the mini game, and we could obsoletize it so its only value is most convenient when leveling or having not raid yet. But why change what works?

    The store is for convenience, not advantage. But why change what works?
    You nailed it ! Please post this up as a thread in general discussion.

    +rep

    drat it wont let me rep you again haha

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Ha ha ;-) I think you're following me!!

    Anyway, making that list really depressed me. I wonder why they needed to change the game so much from what it was in SOA. How could they have made so many bad mistakes and changed the culture from what it was. Anyone remember when we actually liked Turbine? I do.
    loooooong time ago. i think SOA is the last time i actually liked turbine a LITTLE (mostly because i liked the landscape... the grind for DG gear i did not... running SH was boring.. )


    i think lotro was best around SOA/MOM.... faltered after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Now the community team are arrogant big brothers, the dev team is detached, the producers lie to us, and the company seems to be killing our love for the game one turbine point at a time.
    SOA was golden days of community interaction... remeber GM amerithel in moors and angmar? oh man the good old days...


    if our devs cared about us they would come here and EXPLAIN or SAY SOMETHING to us... the devs where once chatty and firendly.....


    around MoM era the cracks started... then widened in SOM... and broke down completly with ROI and WB muny grub.








    .... i think ill start a new thread about this... i got incriminating quotes from long ago forums of the devs breaking a lot of promises
    Last edited by Lendas; Aug 15 2012 at 05:49 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    SOA was golden days of community interaction... remeber GM amerithel in moors and angmar? oh man the good old days...

    if our devs cared about us they would come here and EXPLAIN or SAY SOMETHING to us... the devs where once chatty and firendly...
    Um... Were you here in the "good old days"? 'Cause you can take every post railing against an uncommunicative dev team, replace any instance of "ZC" with "DangerDan", and it's 2007 all over again. Hunter-dev interaction has always been antagonistic and near nonexistent. No amount of *****ing, cajoling, bribing, or brownnosing is going to change that.
    [CENTER][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=dimgray]::: [SIZE=3][URL="http://waywatchersofcardolan.guildportal.com"][COLOR=SlateGray][SIZE=4]T[/SIZE]he [SIZE=4]W[/SIZE]aywatchers of [SIZE=4]C[/SIZE]ardolan[/COLOR][/URL] [SIZE=2]:[/SIZE] [URL="http://palantiri.guildportal.com"][COLOR=LightBlue][SIZE=4]T[/SIZE]he [SIZE=4]P[/SIZE]alantiri[/COLOR][/URL][/SIZE] :::[/COLOR][/FONT]
    [FONT=Garamond][COLOR=DimGray][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/balgr/"][COLOR=LemonChiffon]Balgr Snowmantle[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=Silver]: Curmudgeon[/COLOR] :[SIZE=4][COLOR=#303030].[/COLOR][/SIZE][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/saladoc/"][COLOR=LemonChiffon]Saladoc Willowleaf[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=Silver]: Stick-in-the-mud[/COLOR]
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/ciruth/"][COLOR=LemonChiffon]Ciruth of Gondor[/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=Silver]: Itinerant Scholar[/COLOR] : [COLOR=LemonChiffon][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/halvr/"][COLOR=LemonChiffon]Halvr[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/khasi/"][COLOR=LemonChiffon]Khasi Flamebrow[/COLOR][/URL], and [COLOR=LemonChiffon]Kholi[/COLOR][COLOR=Silver]: At your service![/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT]
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=DimGray][URL="http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a346/MrPinstripes/FFXI%20Stuff/AustrevenMH21409.jpg"][COLOR=dimgray]Austreven[/COLOR][/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=DimGray][SIZE=3][COLOR=#303030].[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=DimGray]of Cobalt (Bismarck)[/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [/CENTER]

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWood View Post
    Um... Were you here in the "good old days"? 'Cause you can take every post railing against an uncommunicative dev team, replace any instance of "ZC" with "DangerDan", and it's 2007 all over again. Hunter-dev interaction has always been antagonistic and near nonexistent. No amount of *****ing, cajoling, bribing, or brownnosing is going to change that.
    i never said it was perfect :P

    hunters have always gotten the boot.

    but im saying that IF there was ever to be called a overall "golden age" of dev interaction it would be SOA/(some degree) MOM..

    the whole GM controlling amerithel thing with her spawning mobs that dropped exculsive cosmetics was prolly one of the funnest things i've ever done in this game... it was even funny when those NPCs where attacking the creeps sometimes because they had no affiliation mechanic


    of course that kind of stuff would never happen today.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    loooooong time ago. i think SOA is the last time i actually liked turbine a LITTLE (mostly because i liked the landscape... the grind for DG gear i did not... running SH was boring.. )


    i think lotro was best around SOA/MOM.... faltered after that.
    MoM was an unmitaged disaster at launch. It really didn't start getting better until they started rolling out hotfixes to creeps, guardians and minstrels. Radiance and LI's were dispised. The OPness of hunters destroyed the moors. Every instance was exploited and you had to run specific instances to gain specific pieces of gear. And everyone hated that raid gear, they felt it wasn't nearly as good as SOA set bonuses and then when DN launched and the gear was even worse (and worse gain with SoM) the Watcher sets looked like mana from heaven in comparison.

    Even when they finally got it back on track with Book 7, all weapon wielding classes were nerfed so badly, and RK dps buffed to extremely people were still really p.o.'d.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    MoM was an unmitaged disaster at launch. It really didn't start getting better until they started rolling out hotfixes to creeps, guardians and minstrels. Radiance and LI's were dispised. The OPness of hunters destroyed the moors. Every instance was exploited and you had to run specific instances to gain specific pieces of gear. And everyone hated that raid gear, they felt it wasn't nearly as good as SOA set bonuses and then when DN launched and the gear was even worse (and worse gain with SoM) the Watcher sets looked like mana from heaven in comparison.

    Even when they finally got it back on track with Book 7, all weapon wielding classes were nerfed so badly, and RK dps buffed to extremely people were still really p.o.'d.
    Nothing like a good dose of hyperbole in the afternoon.

    Moria was great at launch, but maybe not for pvp. Radiance and LIs were too new to be universally despised. Instances *could* be exploited, but that's more a personal problem. They were certainly completable without doing so. Personally, I loved the Moria armour sets, and I had 6 full Rift sets. The Rift set bonuses were *terrible* compared to Moria sets. And having to run every instance was worlds more interesting than what followed (aka Grand Stair x20). While LIs are annoying, there's no denying that the bonuses legacies gave bumped up the fun factor tremendously. And new legendary traits were exciting.

    Far from a disaster, Moria launch was the last time I remember the community as a whole being *excited*.

    (Now carry on with the Hunter QQ)
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    MoM was an unmitaged disaster at launch. It really didn't start getting better until they started rolling out hotfixes to creeps, guardians and minstrels. Radiance and LI's were dispised. The OPness of hunters destroyed the moors. Every instance was exploited and you had to run specific instances to gain specific pieces of gear. And everyone hated that raid gear, they felt it wasn't nearly as good as SOA set bonuses and then when DN launched and the gear was even worse (and worse gain with SoM) the Watcher sets looked like mana from heaven in comparison.

    Even when they finally got it back on track with Book 7, all weapon wielding classes were nerfed so badly, and RK dps buffed to extremely people were still really p.o.'d.
    i never said the x pac was perfect.. or even said anything about the xpac itself (though i liked it)


    yes there where many problems with MoM and the radience gate sucked...



    HOWEVER


    the idea of having to run every one of those instances was a good idea... its way better than the DG SH grind... or the current run-one-instance-since-it-gives-most-medallions-for-the-time-spent thing or the eternal Isen wings grind that just does not seem thrilling at all, especially since its deisgned for raiding kins and not casual player PUGs

    the bad part of it was you had to roll for the coin :P so implementing a everyone-gets-a-coin system and having these instance specific coins tradeable for gear (you run GS 3 times, get 3 coins, get gear)



    the watcher should not have been something that was run for gear... but was run for 1rst agers... they messed up some stuff yes.





    but overall looking back i LOVED Moria over the current fiasco with all this MEGA-DERP-GRIND for all sorts of randomly despersed goodies

    (i really just gave up since there really was no clear path forward between limelight, isen, and dragon. i knew next X pac was coming out soon anyway. im not going to grind forever for somethng to have it obseleted before i can enjoy it)



    so yes moria/SOA was a much better time with less grind, more viability for lesser geared players, more dev interaction, and better content. there where problems (i really didnt like the enterinty of the rift raid, radience and gear-tiers where derp) but i would take those anyday over current play. i just dont have the time to get all the stuff anymore. i cant run a 45min pug for an instance anymore... now it takes 1-2 hours to get players and finish instance.

  25. #25
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    Mar 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Nothing like a good dose of hyperbole in the afternoon.

    Moria was great at launch, but maybe not for pvp. Radiance and LIs were too new to be universally despised. Instances *could* be exploited, but that's more a personal problem. They were certainly completable without doing so. Personally, I loved the Moria armour sets, and I had 6 full Rift sets. The Rift set bonuses were *terrible* compared to Moria sets. And having to run every instance was worlds more interesting than what followed (aka Grand Stair x20). While LIs are annoying, there's no denying that the bonuses legacies gave bumped up the fun factor tremendously. And new legendary traits were exciting.

    Far from a disaster, Moria launch was the last time I remember the community as a whole being *excited*.

    (Now carry on with the Hunter QQ)
    Yeah an apologist and history re-writer! You and your ilk make the game GRRRRRRREEAT!

    Anyway, all wrong.

 

 
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