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  1. #1

    Captain leveling.

    I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong. I got lvl 46 captain and its just painful and frustrating how long it takes to kill anything. The gear is at least lvl 40 and I've tried to trait for damage but still it is slow as kittens. I like making alts and compared to other classes this is definitely the worst one for me so far (my chars are champ, lm, hunter and rk). Anyway I'm looking for tips or just words of encouragement that it will get better soon .

  2. #2
    It does get better soon.

    At level 46 you can go get a legendary weapon which will improve your dps quite a bit. The Epic quest also gives you some good gear to improve your stats that affect dps (might and crit rating).

    At level 60 you get Shadow's Lament. Combined with the Master of War legendary trait, this skill will improve your dps by a lot. (You need Iron Garrison Guards reputation to get that legendary trait.)
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  3. #3
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    It gets better.
    We're not the fastest at killing (We're not the slowest either) and some zones seem to take longer to go through than others.

    In addition to what was posted above, make sure your DPS is upgraded. Whether it's an LI or Non-LI, the extra dps numbers do help.

    So the question is, do you like the cappy? Other than the slow-going? If you do, There's so much to look forward to if you press onward.

    Good luck!!
    Skiddish
    Captain of Average skill but an exceptional heart
    Easily distracted by shiny objects

  4. #4
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    It does get better indeed. We won't be the fastest killers, not even in the top, but nobody beats us in survivability, and it's quite a nice trade. It's really comfortable leveling a captain (I'm still not at max level) but you'll have to accept that it's a support, not a pure dps class

  5. #5
    You can probably try using a herald and using blade bro on him so that you can get an increase to your dps speed.
    Beautifulheart Level 85 champ (main), Alts: 85 R7 Burg 85 R5 Warden 85 LM 85 RK 75 Mini 75 Guard 85 Cappy 85 Hunter R9 Stalker R7 Defiler

  6. #6
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    Keep chugging along. Lvl 60 will be your watershed for personal DPS

    Quote Originally Posted by weiminc38 View Post
    You can probably try using a herald and using blade bro on him so that you can get an increase to your dps speed.
    Thats a lvl 74 skill
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  7. #7
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    Also when you get your ghost archer (late 50s is it?) you'll find he's more impressive.

    Don't just trait DPS, but make sure you have gear with tons of might (and agility reduces misses and increases crits, but don't sacrifice vitality for it), be sure to use War-cry early in fights to speed your attacks, think of it like your DPS's turbo, use it early to maximize it's effect.

    When you need that bit extra, food and particularly scrolls that boost your physical mastery (IE, damage).

    But also adjust your expectations, you've gone from classes where damage is dramatic and a priority, to a class where everything else is a priority and personal damage is practically irrelevant. Use your AoE and bleeds to good effect.

    You can heal, you can tank, you can buff the entire group, you can save a group, those champs/hunters/RKs/LMs need someone around to enable them to do what they do and rez them when they invariably drop.



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  8. #8
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    Let me join the "it will get better crowd". The bummer in levelling a captain nowadays is that the Blade-brother skill comes at level 74, while previously it came much earlier. Your archer comes at level 56, if I recall correctly, so you will get more DPS then. Other than that, get your legendary weapon as early as possible. Don't let the level 50 quests scare you - Volume II, Book 1 is completely doable at level 45, I've done it even with a minstrel. The only quest that is a real pain is a side one, which leads you to a cabe to kill half-orcs. However, it is optional, and the only thing you lose is some rewards, nothing else.

    I've always liked the captain, as I think it is a truly hybrid class, so if you like playing it, don't give up on it - things are only gng to get better as you level up.
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.

  9. #9
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    Levels 40-50 are all about showing you how to use your "brother" skills so that you know what to do when you start grouping with others.

    Some things I did from 40-50 to improve the leveling speed of my captain. Use all the red-line traits that improve your devastating blow, pressing attack, and blade of elendil skills. These are your bread and butter DPS skills. Don't forget to throw in the skills that advance your class deeds. You should have all your pre-50 class deeds done by the time you hit 50, except for your rez deed.

    Make sure you have updated armor, jewelry, and weapons that have Might, Vitality, and will in that order. Stack Might as much as you can, this is what increases your DPS and your outgoing healing. Even though I have a jeweler alt, and my captain is a metalsmith, I am rolling with all quest awarded armor and jewelry. I could have better stats if I took the time to craft armor and jewelry, but I am too lazy to craft the jewelry with my alt because I level so fast, and by the time he can craft his own armor he is 10 levels past that armor level. My complaint of the crafting system is it never has been viable to craft things on level. Crafting is only useful at end game. But don't neglect crafting along the way. Make sure you craft every 5-10 levels so you are not far behind.

    At levels 40-50 the captain, especially red-line traited for maximum DPS, burns through power fast. So in my experience I would use the Herald of Victory. This is the herald that increases your power and in-combat power regen. Also I use Tactic: Focus on myself and my herald... this improves your in-combat power regen significantly and you will rarely run out of power while solo questing. Also your herald burns through his power fast, so buffing his in-combat power regen is useful too because then he will use his 3 skills more often as well.

    Last of all, just know that while soloing you wont be able to kill things as fast as other classes can, but you will be more survivable than most. There has been many times I've survived and prevailed some hairy situations because I've used all my skills to their max... mostly Last Stand, that's the biggest life saver. But when you get to level cap, you will know in the back of your mind that you will be one of the most sought out classes in any group due to your amazing buffs you provide to groups.
    [SIZE="1"]Just realize that while champions are awesome, we want you to be awesome too. That's why we do the things we do. - Harumph[/SIZE]

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  10. #10
    Be sure to use a two-handed halberd (for the class damage bonus) or sword (for the racial damage bonus). I know this is captain obvious advice, but every once in a while I find a sword-and-board captain complaining about DPS.

    Like everyone else says, DPS gets a lot better at higher levels. You'll start seeing crits and devs for several thousand damage, and you won't feel so bad anymore.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotra1 View Post
    I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong. I got lvl 46 captain and its just painful and frustrating how long it takes to kill anything. The gear is at least lvl 40 and I've tried to trait for damage but still it is slow as kittens. I like making alts and compared to other classes this is definitely the worst one for me so far (my chars are champ, lm, hunter and rk). Anyway I'm looking for tips or just words of encouragement that it will get better soon .
    Jotra, as I said in that other thread - I have started to notice a lot of Captains - especially the ones just starting out - are having a lot of trouble with DPS because they are not timing their attacks right. This isn't a class you just run in and spam your abilities till the monster is dead. If you play like that, it's going to slow you down considerably.

    Try timing your melee abilities in accordance with your auto attacks, see if that helps you. If you do it right, your Captain should always be swinging his 2-hander in a near constant motion. And if you notice your Captain having periods where he's just sitting there doing nothing, that means your timing is off. So wait for your auto attack to go off before you use another melee ability.

  12. #12
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    Dont expect to dps faster till about level 60. Using a banner of war gives you more physical matery, (moar damage) some morale and +x% damage. (Its 5% for a level 75 banner, not sure about a lower one.) Build for high might and agility. On my 75 captain, I DO sacrifice morale and vitality for might and agility. But by 75, you sould have capped out crit (25%), around 200-2500 might (banner down), around 30k physical mastery and I sit around 7.5k morale banner down. (This is my solo build not my raiding build.) And the last thing is legendary items. For a dps weapon you should have telling mark damage, devestating blow crit rating, pressing attack crit rating (those are the majors), blade of elendil damage, cutting attack bleed damage and routing cry damage. In addition you should always have a buff weapon and a grouping weapon if you use that dps weapon build.
    Jeridz l Rank 9 l Minstrel l Apex l Elendilmir

  13. #13
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    Many may already be familiar with my take on Captains. They're weak in all areas.

    Their DPS is absolutely bottom of the barrel. They themselves only have one attack that does significant damage, and it's gated behind both the war cry AND a critical hit requirement. The herald's damage is beyond laughable, and his ability to hold aggro is practically nonexistant.

    Their surviviability is weak. This is despite having heavy armour. The need to support more attributes than any other class (Might for obvious reasons, Vitality, Agility for crits, Will for power and anything to improve critical rating) means you likely won't have particularly high stats in any area including Vitality. This means less health. Add to that fewer mitigations and no decent reliable self heals (your only real heal only happens AFTER the battle is over or on one of those rare critical hits - and has a long cooldown), and you are remarkably squishy.

    Their healing is mediocre. As mentioned, they get one decent heal, and it's gated to happen after an enemy dies, meaning it's likely too late to be relevant. The other heal is decent, but it uses power AND morale and has a moderate cooldown. Naturally, you can't use it on yourself, meaning it does nothing for your OWN defense.

    Everyone yammers on about the buffs, but they're somewhat mediocre too, and they can be applied long before an adventure happens. You get your buffs in the Pony then leave the Captain there, because his contribution to the group is already in place. His combat abilities are so mediocre that he's pretty much irrelevant after he's done the buffs.

    On top of all that, his abilities use so much power, and he has no real way to recover it, that he's severely hampered in pretty much any situation. Heaven forbid he take on some Angmarim or other Fear spamming creature that debuffs Will, because his power will drop through the floor and won't be recoverable (even if he heals the debuff immediately, the power is lost).


    Captains, in my experience, and compared to most other classes, are EXTREMELY weak. I think they need some real help in pretty much all areas to bring them up to speed with other classes.


    In other words, it's not that you're doing something wrong, the class is just badly designed (my opinion).

    R.I.P NIDOR of Brandywine Server(1970-2012)

  14. #14
    The single most important thing I noticed was getting 4/4 red traits, this allows +5% crit chance and I think my crit at level 48 is around 18% with this.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamo View Post
    Many may already be familiar with my take on Captains. They're weak in all areas.

    Their DPS is absolutely bottom of the barrel. They themselves only have one attack that does significant damage, and it's gated behind both the war cry AND a critical hit requirement. The herald's damage is beyond laughable, and his ability to hold aggro is practically nonexistant.

    Their surviviability is weak. This is despite having heavy armour. The need to support more attributes than any other class (Might for obvious reasons, Vitality, Agility for crits, Will for power and anything to improve critical rating) means you likely won't have particularly high stats in any area including Vitality. This means less health. Add to that fewer mitigations and no decent reliable self heals (your only real heal only happens AFTER the battle is over or on one of those rare critical hits - and has a long cooldown), and you are remarkably squishy.

    Their healing is mediocre. As mentioned, they get one decent heal, and it's gated to happen after an enemy dies, meaning it's likely too late to be relevant. The other heal is decent, but it uses power AND morale and has a moderate cooldown. Naturally, you can't use it on yourself, meaning it does nothing for your OWN defense.

    Everyone yammers on about the buffs, but they're somewhat mediocre too, and they can be applied long before an adventure happens. You get your buffs in the Pony then leave the Captain there, because his contribution to the group is already in place. His combat abilities are so mediocre that he's pretty much irrelevant after he's done the buffs.

    On top of all that, his abilities use so much power, and he has no real way to recover it, that he's severely hampered in pretty much any situation. Heaven forbid he take on some Angmarim or other Fear spamming creature that debuffs Will, because his power will drop through the floor and won't be recoverable (even if he heals the debuff immediately, the power is lost).


    Captains, in my experience, and compared to most other classes, are EXTREMELY weak. I think they need some real help in pretty much all areas to bring them up to speed with other classes.


    In other words, it's not that you're doing something wrong, the class is just badly designed (my opinion).
    Everyone take note this is a leveling captain. Don't include Will in your build like he does if you can help it (sucks that old raid armor features it heavily). Captain DPS does suck until lvl 60, when the bottom of the single-target DPS barrel so-to-speak raises to the level of DPS Minstrels.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Jotra, as I said in that other thread - I have started to notice a lot of Captains - especially the ones just starting out - are having a lot of trouble with DPS because they are not timing their attacks right. This isn't a class you just run in and spam your abilities till the monster is dead. If you play like that, it's going to slow you down considerably.

    Try timing your melee abilities in accordance with your auto attacks, see if that helps you. If you do it right, your Captain should always be swinging his 2-hander in a near constant motion. And if you notice your Captain having periods where he's just sitting there doing nothing, that means your timing is off. So wait for your auto attack to go off before you use another melee ability.
    Do not take this advice. Autoattacks needed time to fire during the Shadows of Eriador and Mines of Moria days, but since the Siege of Mirkwood expansion the combat engine will fit autoattacks in even if you don't see the animations for them (there are some options for combat animations that will make seeing them more/less likely, but they are still there). Now that captains have sure strike, some attack should be off cooldown to use, so as long as you have the power to use them, queue up your attacks as fast as you can or you hurt your leveling speed (i.e. dps).
    Arkenstone: Pelagor 100 Captain, Finarwe 100 Loremaster, Banderdas 100 Minstrel

  17. #17
    Their DPS is absolutely bottom of the barrel. They themselves only have one attack that does significant damage, and it's gated behind both the war cry AND a critical hit requirement. The herald's damage is beyond laughable, and his ability to hold aggro is practically nonexistant.

    Their surviviability is weak. This is despite having heavy armour. The need to support more attributes than any other class (Might for obvious reasons, Vitality, Agility for crits, Will for power and anything to improve critical rating) means you likely won't have particularly high stats in any area including Vitality. This means less health. Add to that fewer mitigations and no decent reliable self heals (your only real heal only happens AFTER the battle is over or on one of those rare critical hits - and has a long cooldown), and you are remarkably squishy.

    Their healing is mediocre. As mentioned, they get one decent heal, and it's gated to happen after an enemy dies, meaning it's likely too late to be relevant. The other heal is decent, but it uses power AND morale and has a moderate cooldown. Naturally, you can't use it on yourself, meaning it does nothing for your OWN defense.

    Everyone yammers on about the buffs, but they're somewhat mediocre too, and they can be applied long before an adventure happens. You get your buffs in the Pony then leave the Captain there, because his contribution to the group is already in place. His combat abilities are so mediocre that he's pretty much irrelevant after he's done the buffs.

    On top of all that, his abilities use so much power, and he has no real way to recover it, that he's severely hampered in pretty much any situation. Heaven forbid he take on some Angmarim or other Fear spamming creature that debuffs Will, because his power will drop through the floor and won't be recoverable (even if he heals the debuff immediately, the power is lost).


    Captains, in my experience, and compared to most other classes, are EXTREMELY weak. I think they need some real help in pretty much all areas to bring them up to speed with other classes.


    In other words, it's not that you're doing something wrong, the class is just badly designed (my opinion).
    Just plain ignore this.

    Cappy DPS isn't great, not by a long shot, and heavy armour alone isn't the be all and end all. But it is good and your health will typiclly be very good. I run a swap LI with motivating speech on and religiously run Hereald of Hope. The result is on level health values equivelent to or supiriour to tanks with only marginally less base migation. Revealing mark provides very decent single target heals, and multi-target situations open up huge options on RC amongst others. VS is also avalibile at high levels for emergancy heal's and your hereald of hope will heal you for a small but useful amount, and if we wish we can use sheild brother + fellowship brother to give ourselves a morale HoT.

    Our buffs are just insane in a group enviroment. Currently the combination of War Cry and LI'd Telling Marks is worth as much group wide DOPS as a single DPS class in our place. We then get to bring Tactic's, IDOME, Oathies, To Arms, and SoW to bear for very significant improvments. Not to mention the value of group wide banners in helping the group.

    The stats issues is nowhere near what he claism, for leveling, except for a short period just before moria i found it tottally uneccessery to stack will on gear. A Wisdom Virtue took care of providing the needed power. In group situations you just need to work on your total ICPR.

  18. #18
    I have a captain around level 35 currently aswell, and its indeed the weakest class i ever played in that levelrange. At those levels no amount of buffs and armor will compensate the fact that you lack selfheals AND get pounded atleast 2x as long as other classes. The fact that you get pounded on for so long every fight also means you get about every debuff those mobs have ... My captain usually is a walking encyclopedia of diseases, its a little bit disgusting to be honest .

    I would be very annoyed about running out of power midfight all the time, if there was something useful i could do with the power in the first place ... Only class where i can be at 80% morale and power yet know that im about to die(respawn in tight areas ftl), might take a minute but its not like there is alot of things i can do to help out myself if something bad happens. Fights at that level usually do not last more than two minutes, so at the most i get to heal myself once. If everything works flawlessly and you don't have one of those gauntmen stun your right as you get a defeat response ...

    I played the old minnie, and i played the new minnie. Its pretty harsh how much selfheal the minstrel got in his dps mode, especially considering that captains don't even HAVE a dps mode and yet are still worse off. I plainly do not see the purpose in torturing players like this sub lvl 50(i have no doubt looking at later skills that the situation gets better, but imho the difficulty curve is way off).

  19. #19
    My Captain is 41 I believe and still chopping things down quite nicely. My only beef is the lack of self-healing Turbine seems to insist on with some classes until much higher level. Even with that I still simply concentrate on acquiring close to the best gear for my level. My rl friend and I keep out crafting up to our level to make sure we at least wear near level purples at all time (the odd teal). Captains certainly require a tight dps rotation so making sure that goes off properly is important too. It certainly isn't exciting. Also try and group up when you can as that is entirely the point of a Captain. I have much more fun in groups. I await some key abilities but so far I still have a feeling of competency if not actual power. I still can do things my Loremaster can't or has to be entirely more careful (although, again, that is the whole point of that class too and they mature even later than a Captain).


    Currently I mostly trait for dps but through anything in that helps self-healing and some damage mitigating protection. Staying alive is just as important as killing fast. Solo'ing in nearly ever game comes down to trying to find strengths in all areas by pushing soft cap limits without wasting points beyond caps. You min/max specific areas for raids, not solo'ing.
    Last edited by Tamanous; Aug 27 2012 at 06:02 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Herald + Shield Brother + FB = some self healing, in addition to pots and herald heal.

    You also have SfW if you really need that extra self healing, but I'd rather roll w/ the DPS traits since that makes stuff die faster.

    And yikes! Some really bad advice in this thread =(
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Herald + Shield Brother + FB = some self healing, in addition to pots and herald heal.

    You also have SfW if you really need that extra self healing, but I'd rather roll w/ the DPS traits since that makes stuff die faster.

    And yikes! Some really bad advice in this thread =(
    While I mostly agree with Tiamo - cappy is by far the weakest of my six high level characters - I am curious about the herald advice here. My impression is that the oathbreaker archer is the best dps herald by a substantial margin. Is the herald of hope actually competitive? I do miss the herald-heal, so if I'm not gimping my already low dps by switching from the archer that might be worth a try.

    And apparently I misunderstood how the new fellowship-brother legendary works (haven't played cappy much since ROI, so those changes are still new to me!), I thought that had no effect at all when soloing. So FB+Shield Brother lets Inspire heal yourself as well as the herald, is that how it works? Could come in handy! I find that I rarely use Oathbreakers anyway, so switching it out should be no big deal.

    Re: Omen_Kaizer's claim that post-60 cappies can match dps minis, lol no! Not even close. At 60 captain dps merely becomes bearable.

  22. #22
    Your talking 60DPS vs about 20DPS. It''s inconsuquentiol compared to several hundred you should be pulling by 75. And the ICMR and above all extra health is a huge factor. Plus the hereald is tough enough to sand upto the odd hit.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Howell View Post
    Re: Omen_Kaizer's claim that post-60 cappies can match dps minis, lol no! Not even close. At 60 captain dps merely becomes bearable.
    Heh, I have to laugh at the notion that a Captain can match a Minstrel's DPS. Skjald was hitting Codas of Fury for 7000-10000 damage on occasion, and routinely slugging foes with his dagger for 300-400 damage.

    My Captain, with his 2 hander, does about 60-100 damage, with the VERY rare critical hit for around 500. Granted, he's several levels below Skjald, but I can't imagine the class will change that much.

    On the other hand, comparing my L44 Guard to my L44 Captain...

    I did Thievery and Mischeif the other night. My Captain came upon a Blood Rook and his cronies (the counterattack on the AH). By the time I defeated ONE of the weak foes, I was on my last 100 health and was forced to use Last Stand. The Blood Rook was unharmed, so there was NO way I could possibly defeat it and the other three thugs before Last Stand wore off. That was with both a Herbalist soldier AND my Herald of Hope providing healing.
    On the same skirmish, I came to the last boss (I forget his name), and was able to defeat him, but with about 20 health left.

    My Guardian, on the other hand, routinely does these missions WITHOUT a soldier. I almost always dismiss the soldier before I face the final guy, so that it's a "fair" fight. Notably, I do this with ALL my characters with one other exception. The Runekeeper kind of needs his Protector to operate. Other than that, all my characters are VASTLY more powerful than the Captain. It's not even a slight difference, it's night and day.

    I'll post some numbers for comparison once I've compiled a few.

    R.I.P NIDOR of Brandywine Server(1970-2012)

  24. #24
    The only minstrel dps parse I could find was in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Solador View Post
    My point is Minstrels are totally viable in current content to dps. Yes i wudnt go dps in ToO T2 or even maybe T1 . But in 6man/3man its perfectly fine and even better then some dps classes. Quick burst dmg , no fight lasts longer there then 2 min and boss fights i parse around 1000-1200 depends on situation. And when u have a capt on group power is no issue even when ur not using anthems to regenn it urself. U just need to have decent gear to dps to pull it off also. I got the ToO Dps set + 2000+ will 6k finess 19% crit.
    Well geared captains can match that.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Howell View Post
    While I mostly agree with Tiamo - cappy is by far the weakest of my six high level characters - I am curious about the herald advice here. My impression is that the oathbreaker archer is the best dps herald by a substantial margin. Is the herald of hope actually competitive? I do miss the herald-heal, so if I'm not gimping my already low dps by switching from the archer that might be worth a try.
    Herald DPS is not associated with herald skin.

    All the OB herald does is give it uber armor. That's not something I care for, thus I stuck with a Swordswoman.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

 

 
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