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  1. #1
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    Morgoth and Sauron

    Long story short - there are certain differences between the two Dark Lords.

    While Morgoth was pretty much all about rage and jealousy, wanting to replace the Valar's creation with his "own", Sauron was more of a tactician, trying to conquer hearts and minds instead. It shows in their actions for a long way.

    Anyway, another interesting topic for debate, I think? Both lost, but which one did you think had more success?

  2. #2
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    Morgoth. Morgoth was the author of all evil in the World. Sauron would've been not even close to a Dark Lord without Morgoth. Arda was Morgoth's Ring, as it had a part of him in itself, and was marred by him.

    Morgoth was a decent tactician too, considering Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Hurin and his Children, Dagor Bragollach, etc.

    Sauron would've definitely had a higher kill count, as he was Dark Lord for longer than Morgoth (counting post-Years of the Sun). But Morgoth had a higher... kill/time ratio, having wiped out most of the realms of Beleriand. Morgoth also committed deeds of more evilness than Sauron (killed the Trees, enstranged the hearts of Elves and Men, etc.)

    Even in Sauron's time as the Dark Lord, Morgoth still had a higher control, as everything evil was his will (unless committed by the Race of Man, where it could​ be his will).
    Last edited by Haunt123; Aug 06 2012 at 09:50 AM.

  3. #3

    Might vs. cunning

    Morgoth, being one of the Valar, had tremendous strength. Sauron, on the other hand, was a Maiar and while still strong, he could not match the power of Morgoth. Also, Sauron poured the greater part of his will and power into the forging of the One Ring and he was weakened when he did not possess it. Sauron was forced by his situation to use his guile and cunning to attempt to dominate Middle Earth (i.e., the fall of Numenor, hiding in Mirkwood as the Necromancer as a diversion, etc.). Morgoth was cunning and cruel but was able to use these devices out of spite rather than out of necessity. Morgoth's style was usually in the overwhelming force department (see "Battle of the Sudden Flame", Glaurung's reign of terror, etc.).

  4. #4
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    Morgoth was way more successful, since Morgoth architected pretty much all of the evil in Middle Earth (including Sauron). It was pretty well established that Sauron was but a shadow of what Morgoth was, both in power and deeds.

    I seem to recall something stating that even when Morgoth was finally banished to the void his evil lingered in the world, and while he couldn't actually affect anything anymore his malice remained as a shadow. In fact, I seem to recall the same thing with Sauron when the Ring was destroyed; he was stripped of all of his power but his evil shadow remained in the world (a metaphor, I always assumed, for how evil people will always be in the world).

    If that's true and I didn't misunderstand, than Morgoth's influence was still present even in the Third Age.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by LichKingOfAngmar View Post
    when Morgoth was finally banished to the void his evil lingered in the world
    That evil that lingered in the world? Was Sauron (among other things like dragons, orcs and balrogs, but yeah, Sauron).

  6. #6
    Melkor, wich means: He who rises in power, was one of the Ainur just like Ulmo,Manwe,Aule etc.
    His name 'Melkor' was changed by the Nolder to Morgoth, wich means: The dark enemy of the world, because they refused to speak out his name also to refuse his status as one of the Ainur/Valar.
    Sauron or Gorthaur the Cruel was a Maiar from Aule who was influenced by Melkor and eventually turned to him and had his part in every evil deed Melkor did within Middle Earth.

    I would call Melkor the most evil one since he was the start of all evil and one of the Ainur. His work and his influences caused terror and evil even after he was captured by the Valar.
    Everything started with him untill the last great battle where he was chained with the chain Angainor en his crown was melted to a chain to bind his head and neck. Eventually he was trown through The door of the night, behind the walls of the world into the timeless void. It is here that Eärendil holds watch.

    Sauron was a puppet at first but when his master was caught he rised and became the next most evil lord within Middle Earth

    So i vote for Melkor/Morgoth!

  7. #7
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    Morgoth, for obvious reasons.

  8. #8
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    Depends on one's definition of success, imo.
    One way Sauron was 'lesser evil' was because he served another for a good long while. Even in Númenor, he had temple(s) raised in honour of Morgoth, not himself.

    In viewing each one's accomplishments, I'd say Morgoth. By far.
    Sauron was, after all, counted among Aulë's maiar, at first... and the worst thing he wrought were the Rings.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daeross View Post
    Depends on one's definition of success, imo.
    One way Sauron was 'lesser evil' was because he served another for a good long while. Even in Númenor, he had temple(s) raised in honour of Morgoth, not himself.

    In viewing each one's accomplishments, I'd say Morgoth. By far.
    Sauron was, after all, counted among Aulë's maiar, at first... and the worst thing he wrought were the Rings.
    I don't know...I'd put his time as master of Tol-in-Gaurhoth ahead of the making of the Rings...he was a bad bad man..err Maia.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironcrown View Post
    I don't know...I'd put his time as master of Tol-in-Gaurhoth ahead of the making of the Rings...he was a bad bad man..err Maia.
    Well, Tolkien stated that the Lay of Leithan depicted the most tragic story of Middle-Earth, or something. But in my opinion, the tale of Nirnaeth Arnoediad beats that boohoo romance any day (Just kidding, but still, Nirnaeth is much sadder).

    Similarly, I'd say that Sauron's most evil deed was the corruption of the hearts of Men, though Tolkien said it was Sauron's time in Tol-in-Gaurhoth

 

 

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