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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kannos1600 View Post
    Reading your post can be set to a point out to your point. Few things here.

    1. You dont like it when people point to the Moria release date? Why not? Our DPS was ungodly high compared to any class at the time and they cut us back after about 2 months or so. In that time frame every mother under the son (including everyone in my Kinship minus 1 or 2) rolled a Hunter simply because the DPS really was that high. They wanted the ez ticket. Once Turbine changed that the only thing most of them went back to a hunter for was either to PvMP or to craft and port people around in the kin but all else was ignored.

    2. Utility. The Hunter has been about Utility since it came out but it is also mentioned as Ranged DPS. For all intents and purposes before the RK was introduced we were the "Glass Cannon" of LOTRO. Now that title goes to the RK. Regardless though the Hunter is still DPS. With current settup you can trait all classes for a DPS format. Course under typical conditions the 3 primary DPS classes will usually out the others but this isn't always entirely true.

    3. You now bring into the Raid aspect of things. Thats fine. Raids are a class use specific in alot of groups. Many times more than not in a raid a class is requested for a singular roll vs multiple so yes in the Lightning fight here you would want the Hunter for DPS but we have plenty of other raids where you can have a Hunter be CC vs DPS if your raid leader opted for it.

    All in all my information is still correct in its point out. Hunters are still DPS. They are also Utility as it has been since the day it was conceived of a class but some never really noticed it till end lvl play.
    K, list out all of the boss fights that hunter CC as a main function is a requirement. You can go all the way back to great barrows if you want to.

    My point about Moria is as I explained it. Its used as a crutch. "Omg you just want to be a book 6 hunter!!!". How many people still playing even remember it? Its become almost mythical. But while we definately were overpowered, we weren't game breaking. In Book 7 RK's hit every bit as high as Book 6 hunters did! But no one ever says "Omg you just want to be a book 7 RK!!!".

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    As an "Elite" Hunter responding to this post I have to say your wrong. Yes you are right about some aspects of the class, about what the devs have done and where error has occurred. However the class is anything but broken. I agree in terms of stances there is only one useful one, this is stupid. Obviously there are issues regarding stances, survivability and such. Read about them in the upcoming dev diary this week it will make you feel better I'm sure.

    PvE
    There is not a class in the game that can out DPS a hunter who knows what hes doing and has the best gear. Feel free to link any parse from any player anywhere in the game in any fight and I will beat it with a FRAPS video. Even aoe pulls over champs with RoA traits in many circumstances with proper maxed out melee LI with low cut bleeds. If you are pulling agro your guardian sucks. I've done over 4-5k DPS in acid and not pulled agro.

    Moors
    There is not one Reaver, WL, Warg, or Spider I cannot beat in a 1v1 on my server, Ba's of course with evade the best ones I can't do if they pop evade uruk and vt. I've even been able to kill 2 ranked creeps in 2v1 sometimes with man-heal. I'm sick and tired of these posts about how bad the hunter is. My ego has never been higher and I am very happy with where I am right now except for moors survivability. But even then I manage, I solo a ton but still have a 40 kd ratio at r14 and at the moment im sitting at 2k rating playing aggressive, Brandywine is a very active server with a boatload of wargs.

    From reading your post all I read is you "thought" you were an elite hunter. If you can talk like an &&& like me and actually pull it off then youll be in the place where you never quite the game. Cheers.
    Ok, so since we are all being uber 1337 huntards here I figure I would go ahead and say some stuff.

    First off, Yelk, you are a very good all around hunter from what I saw in my time on BW. Im glad that you are enjoying having top tier gear and being able to wreck face with it. However, may I ask how much of your rank 14 you have gotten from "soloing a ton"? I hardly ever saw you solo in my few months over there, might not reflect on your overall playstyle but you have a reputation as a raid leader, so I assume you mostly raid, which honestly is pretty ezmode almost to a farming point on BW with so many ppl zerging and trading kills, rezzing, and trading more kills.

    Second, while I did encounter a couple good 1v1 creeps on BW, most of them just used store items to cover their lack of skill. You being able to wreck anything 1v1 with a first age and the best gear evah is meh to me. I play with 3 audacity including base and I dont have a 1st age, nor do I even have gear that is all that good compared to ppl on BW where there are tons of raids who beat t2 ToO consistently. I can also take almost anything in a 1v1 if I actually want to. I say this because I have lost interest in the grind and faceroll of this game, and half the time I simply am not paying attention when Im fighting creeps.

    But thats not completely the issue this thread is raising, it says that hunters are broken and why not to play one. Honestly I have never really understood the OP (I saw his original troll threads when he quit and he kept coming back for months to tell everyone to do the same), but if a person wants to play a bow wielding class in this game, they are going to play the hunter, no matter how broken they are.
    However, I would like to submit the idea that hunters are, in fact, NOT broken. They would only be broken if the people who designed the class did not intend to make them this way, not just because they arent the way YOU want them. Hunters in this game are working exactly as their game creators intended them to be, otherwise they would fix them.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620501000014478e/signature.png]Dogwillhunt[/charsig]

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    K, list out all of the boss fights that hunter CC as a main function is a requirement. You can go all the way back to great barrows if you want to.

    My point about Moria is as I explained it. Its used as a crutch. "Omg you just want to be a book 6 hunter!!!". How many people still playing even remember it? Its become almost mythical. But while we definately were overpowered, we weren't game breaking. In Book 7 RK's hit every bit as high as Book 6 hunters did! But no one ever says "Omg you just want to be a book 7 RK!!!".
    RK dps to Hnt dps still upsets me to. They are the little brother to the DPS classes and yet oust the other two.

    For me the ZOMG ITS DPS day of Moria is still strong in my play history as with others who have been around that long regardless of the years that have passed. As I agree in turn that we weren't game breaking with the DPS but as you very well know that when your the biggest nail you get hammered down first and thats what the case was with Hunter vs other classes. The others complained we were OP and thus Turbine slammed the DPS Hammer onto our nail head.

    Boss fights alone in a raid are usually straight forward. It's getting to the bosses that can alter the class role ina raid. Plenty of times I have done BG or DN and was set for CC vs DPS trait lines. I myself usually detested this as I hated the cut on DPS in the ToF line (always had and thankfully its gone) but did it anyway and it showed different play styles. So I will agree with you that the actual Bosses in a raid the Hunter is for the most part DPS set but a raid alone isn't set by just the boss fights. It's built from the mobs as well.

    The Rift was a big one. Knowledge is power in any raid. Course what im going on has nothing to do with Classes and roles but when Rift first came out and you had the Task Masters + Trolls and healers you had to know how to handle the specific enemies to continue into the raid and if you didn't you probably spent a good 30 minutes battling a simple mob. Ahh paving the road to success in raids

    Outside of Raid Bosses the same rule would apply. I have done say SG set in CC mode back before I knew the place better and did that vs DPS until we would get to a boss and retrait. Costly but got the job done. Same with raids.
    Last edited by Kannos1600; Aug 20 2012 at 08:01 PM.
    Pariah Amistacia - Nimrodel - Leader of the Devils of Angmar

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Aronath View Post
    Ok, so since we are all being uber 1337 huntards here I figure I would go ahead and say some stuff.

    First off, Yelk, you are a very good all around hunter from what I saw in my time on BW. Im glad that you are enjoying having top tier gear and being able to wreck face with it. However, may I ask how much of your rank 14 you have gotten from "soloing a ton"? I hardly ever saw you solo in my few months over there, might not reflect on your overall playstyle but you have a reputation as a raid leader, so I assume you mostly raid, which honestly is pretty ezmode almost to a farming point on BW with so many ppl zerging and trading kills, rezzing, and trading more kills.

    Second, while I did encounter a couple good 1v1 creeps on BW, most of them just used store items to cover their lack of skill. You being able to wreck anything 1v1 with a first age and the best gear evah is meh to me. I play with 3 audacity including base and I dont have a 1st age, nor do I even have gear that is all that good compared to ppl on BW where there are tons of raids who beat t2 ToO consistently. I can also take almost anything in a 1v1 if I actually want to. I say this because I have lost interest in the grind and faceroll of this game, and half the time I simply am not paying attention when Im fighting creeps.

    But thats not completely the issue this thread is raising, it says that hunters are broken and why not to play one. Honestly I have never really understood the OP (I saw his original troll threads when he quit and he kept coming back for months to tell everyone to do the same), but if a person wants to play a bow wielding class in this game, they are going to play the hunter, no matter how broken they are.
    However, I would like to submit the idea that hunters are, in fact, NOT broken. They would only be broken if the people who designed the class did not intend to make them this way, not just because they arent the way YOU want them. Hunters in this game are working exactly as their game creators intended them to be, otherwise they would fix them.
    I didn't even join a duo until R11. I have grouped and led often from then yes but I do solo. I also attend 1v1 circles. As for the caliber of creeps I've spared it's only the best. Wargs like Snoopey, Stylen, Reavers like Slyc, Beatle, Boostad Defilers like dephailer and kreeperofladygaga, really anybody you name it. Many creeps will name me a star hugging group/raider on brandy but they cannot deny my solo/1v1 activity. In all honesty I wouldn't care if I sucked on a hunter, IMO hunters shouldn't win 1v1s lol.
    Last edited by YesMaam; Aug 20 2012 at 11:58 PM.
    Yelk, Hunter| Rank 15 | Gladden | Leader of Shock and Awe
    Original Challenger of Saruman
    Original Challenger of Gothmog

  5. #30
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    Is this about pvp?

    I agree on the irritating reactions to feedback - running away in a huff seems rather immature.

    I do not feel that hunter is bad in any shape or form.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kannos1600 View Post
    RK dps to Hnt dps still upsets me to. They are the little brother to the DPS classes and yet oust the other two.
    But you didn't answer the question: Why isn't it "You just want to be a book 7 RK?"

    Boss fights alone in a raid are usually straight forward. It's getting to the bosses that can alter the class role ina raid.
    I knew you were going to try that. Sorry no. I didn't say raid. I said instance. Remember the argument: "You just want to be book 6 hunters!" "No, I just want utility!"

    Where's our utility in boss fights, 3 man, 6 man, 12 man. Lets go through the list again this time in the foundry's 3 bosses:

    Champion - DPS or Tank
    Guaridan - Tank or DPS
    Warden - Tank or DPS
    Minstrel - Heals or DPS
    LM - DPS or Debuff
    RK - Heals or DPS
    Captain - Tank or Heals or DPS
    Burglar - Debuff or DPS
    Hunter - DPS or ?

    There's no alternate roll for the hunter in any of those three boss fights. Or in the 3 mans either. Hell in Dragnakh if you bring a hunter to the final fight, you're two manning it! Scan the class list, is there another class in the Dragnakh fight that is completely useless?

    What this means is, there's no flexibility. The hunter fills the dps roll. Period. They can't flex to heals obviously and they can't flex to Tank anymore. A good hunter could at least tank the Echoes of the Dead 3-mans. So, if you have that dps slot filled by another class that can match his dps or at least meet the threshold of "good enough" - which is all 8 of the other classes, the hunter must sit out to make room for that tank or healer.

    Another way to put it, in any of the isengard 3 mans, you can run 2 of any of the above classes plus a third. Two wardens? One goes tank, another goes DPS. Two captains? One tanks, one heals (or DPS's). Two RK's? One heals one DPS's. Two hunters? That means no tank or no healer.

    It'd be fine if the Hunter was still the king of single target DPS. If you absolutely want that one class that can dps better than any other, you can make the sacrifice of having to have a traditional group of tank/dps/healer. But that's not the case anymore is it? And we're not going to get that roll back because why? We can't become book 6 hunters!!

    So our role is gone, nothing has replaced it. There's no alternative to it. Two hunters in a 3-man means no 3-man. So give us a goddamn secondary role!

  7. #32
    If hunters are so broken why they are most popular freep class in moors?

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Because they are the most popular class in the game.
    *If hunters are so broken why they are most popular classs in the game?


    The only thing broken here is this *&#^$ forum.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunlang View Post
    If hunters are so broken why they are most popular freep class in moors?
    Because they are the most popular class in the game.

  10. #35
    Because, for a casual, and I mean casual player, a Hunter is an extremely easy, straight forward, and convenient class.

    Hunters have constant +runspeed, good enough damage even if not built correctly, ports to nearly every corner of the entire game, and like every other class, can easily faceroll 98% of landscape, even without a hardcore or raid-level player behind them.

    That is why a Hunter is the most popular class.

    Take them into actual instances, raids, some skirms or the Moors, however...and all of the flaws of a Hunter start appearing like cracks on an old sidewalk.
    My other Warhorse is a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit,[I] Defiant-Class[/I], [I]U.S.S. Say My Name[/I], NCC-93144

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunlang View Post
    *If hunters are so broken why they are most popular classs in the game?
    Because at level 1, no class is broken and bows and arrows are cool.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    But you didn't answer the question: Why isn't it "You just want to be a book 7 RK?"



    I knew you were going to try that. Sorry no. I didn't say raid. I said instance. Remember the argument: "You just want to be book 6 hunters!" "No, I just want utility!"

    Where's our utility in boss fights, 3 man, 6 man, 12 man. Lets go through the list again this time in the foundry's 3 bosses:

    Champion - DPS or Tank
    Guaridan - Tank or DPS
    Warden - Tank or DPS
    Minstrel - Heals or DPS
    LM - DPS or Debuff
    RK - Heals or DPS
    Captain - Tank or Heals or DPS
    Burglar - Debuff or DPS
    Hunter - DPS or ?

    There's no alternate roll for the hunter in any of those three boss fights. Or in the 3 mans either. Hell in Dragnakh if you bring a hunter to the final fight, you're two manning it! Scan the class list, is there another class in the Dragnakh fight that is completely useless?

    What this means is, there's no flexibility. The hunter fills the dps roll. Period. They can't flex to heals obviously and they can't flex to Tank anymore. A good hunter could at least tank the Echoes of the Dead 3-mans. So, if you have that dps slot filled by another class that can match his dps or at least meet the threshold of "good enough" - which is all 8 of the other classes, the hunter must sit out to make room for that tank or healer.

    Another way to put it, in any of the isengard 3 mans, you can run 2 of any of the above classes plus a third. Two wardens? One goes tank, another goes DPS. Two captains? One tanks, one heals (or DPS's). Two RK's? One heals one DPS's. Two hunters? That means no tank or no healer.

    It'd be fine if the Hunter was still the king of single target DPS. If you absolutely want that one class that can dps better than any other, you can make the sacrifice of having to have a traditional group of tank/dps/healer. But that's not the case anymore is it? And we're not going to get that roll back because why? We can't become book 6 hunters!!

    So our role is gone, nothing has replaced it. There's no alternative to it. Two hunters in a 3-man means no 3-man. So give us a goddamn secondary role!
    You did read the other part of my post past raid correct? I did mention other areas other than raids.

    As per your argument for 3 man instances. I have done a few with 2 Hunters but do not find them time useful to a degree when coupled with a healer to side with the two Hunters. I usually prefer other settups but to each to thar own on it all.

    After reading more and more of your posts I am starting to see a single minded posting trend. You are entitled to your opinion and all but in the end the class is still DPS and CC. No we are not top dog DPS and havn't been for quite a while but as I said before on the matter we arn't the lowest (among dps classes possibly. i havn't parsed my champion in a while so)

    Not a fan of absolution discussions when only portions of the conversation are targeted and not the whole thing. So this will conclude our little debate on Hunters.

    Carry on holmes. We will most likely find another topic to debate on soon enough.
    Pariah Amistacia - Nimrodel - Leader of the Devils of Angmar

  13. #38
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    From a standing point of knowing the Hunter as I do I see the pull to the class as a great starting class for anyone for many reasons. Most of which have been mentioned by others so I will most likely tred onto the previouse points.

    The hunter deals good enough damage you can safely solo nearly any content without much issue. Namely Epic Books to progress your story.

    The sheer amount of utility function the hunter calls on is what crys to many as making a starting run easy for them.

    Find a specific foe? NO PROB! Boom hit your tracking skills.
    Pull lots of foes? Drop some traps or cc them with your skills.
    Foe weak to fire? No prob. Douse that &&&&&& with fire oil and pew pew.
    Foe weak to light? No prob. Douse that &&&&&& with light oil and pew pew.
    Need to go somewhere? POOF! Outies like a belly button to your desired location. Even more locations coming with upcoming expansion.

    Plenty of other reasons I like the Hunter but those stand as my front choices as to why it is sexy class to play. Hell I miss ports when I am on my alts lol.
    Pariah Amistacia - Nimrodel - Leader of the Devils of Angmar

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kannos1600 View Post
    You did read the other part of my post past raid correct? I did mention other areas other than raids.
    But you never answered the question. You tried to answer your own question. For that you don't need a forums. You can stand in front of a mirror and ask and answer your own questions. "Hi do you like hunters?" "Hi well yes I do, thank you very much and aren't you just a handsome devil" and on and on it goes. Its rather pointless, even if still enteraining.

    After reading more and more of your posts I am starting to see a single minded posting trend.
    That I want hunters to be improved? Yes this is correct. That if I enter a discussion and ask a question, I want that question to be answered? Yes, I'm single minded in that as well. I'm not one to let some poster take me on a wild derailed goosechase as he brings up point after point that prove nothing in the attempt to shake free of the hold my argument has on him. Humanity's capacity to ignore truth never ceases to amaze me, and it becomes so prevelent here on a forums that its downright scary.

    Take yourself for instance. You're happy where hunters are at. Maybe you have an alterior motive (creep) or maybe you don't. I'm making no accusations. If you're happy, good for you. But lets say Turbine listens to the players who aren't happy and they actually fix hunters. So now you basically have all your current love +1. What the hell is wrong with +1? Its a win/win situation for you. Its not like in fixing hunters they'd take away their dps. You'd lose nothing and potetially gain a ton. But you'd rather gain nothing. And why? To be right. To prove your point. Your opinion is more important to you than your own enjoyment of the game.

    And how frickin crazy is that.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kannos1600 View Post
    in the end the class is still DPS and CC.
    Oh, by the by, I think this guy said it best:

    The Yellow Line has never worked and the sooner Turbine accept that fact, roll CC capabilities into passives and give us some useful secondary role the better.
    I'll end the discussion there.

 

 
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