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  1. #76
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    Now, this is unique, but I play both a warg and a hunter as my favourite classes of both sides.

    As a Hunter
    • I do get tracked very often, either by store tracks or as the wargs 1 minute tracking skill.
    • I do win most fights if I start it.
    • I do lose most fights if they start it.
    • I will not survive more than 5s against a creep zerg.
    • I do not trait track, and don't use Heart Seeker.
    • With the fights I start, it turns out more damage is done with a surprise from Improved Swift Bow (Since HS gives a warning).
    • I stay solo.


    As a Warg
    • I trait to track stealthed targets, and use the skill whenever I can.
    • I go for a hunter as soon as I see one.
    • I am always tracked, surprisingly more so by store bought tracking talismans.
    • I have two ways to escape from a fight if a zerg comes along.
    • I always use Shadow Stance, because the damage is much higher.
    • If I pass a freep raid, I will usually go for the healer first unless one if falling behind.
    • I stay solo.



    Overall in my opinion:
    • Hunter's can be very devastating if they have the advantage of surprise.
    • Wargs will always go for the attack if they see it.
    • If a Hunter groups up, the wargs will go for the healing minstrel first.


    So, yes we can be in a very dangerous situation in solo, but in a group we will survive much longer. We do, do not deny it, have the best single target burst dps, which is essential in the Moors since you would usually, solo or grouped, focus on target after target.
    We do not yet know what is in store for us in Rohan, but if we achieved a proper healing/escape skill, that should be able to fix the current situation: ''I see a Hunter running over there! Time to get some Lunch!''

  2. #77

    ha

    glad i quit i see hunter is going to be even more of a joke...

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragnipurake View Post
    My experience is different. I see un-stealthed hunters starting to attack a creep usually only when standing on 2nd floor of a keep or exploiting bridge pillars or rocks.
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    1. Why do people always assume this? This is wrong. Does every spider start fights from Burrow? Not even half of my figths start from stealth. Now what kind of playstyle is this anyway?
    Oh, I can tell you why - this above is called selection bias. People tend to remember that awful moment when they ran into stealth "fun gameplay" hunter, while quickly forgetting other situations (boring, WAI, etc). Or simply didn't have much of a material if it's indeed true entire server either roleplays a tree or exploits. The same goes about those "constant devs from BlA" - as if it was not clear enough "constant" and "dev" are a frikkin contradiction. And that's what those random words of wisdom from people using "paper reasoning" to prove "it's sooo fine", are worth.

    TL: DR /headdesk

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    The glorious tracking mechanic (works both ways) is really messed up though, stupid to use and laggy as hell. Shop trackers are better.
    What is even weirder - though it might be my selection bias this time - is that tracking against NPC is pretty much instant.


    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post
    Now, this is unique, but I play both a warg and a hunter as my favourite classes of both sides.
    Definitely not, expect to see more of us with each upderpate :P

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwhizzy View Post
    glad i quit i see hunter is going to be even more of a joke...
    Are you still waiting on that promised movie, the one without creeps using autoattacks and some random debuffs and running into random direction for 50% of the "fight"?

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    1. Why do people always assume this? This is wrong. Does every spider start fights from Burrow? Not even half of my figths start from stealth. Now what kind of playstyle is this anyway? Stealth that is only active when standing still? Great. So I just find a spot to gank the poor questing creeps instead of looking for real fights? The Moors are a dynamic environment, fights move around so I have to as well. Camouflage is a stupid skill anyway, take it. 3 second animation and no buffs from it.
    That is my expression. But of course, Ferthcott has a point. BTW, my warg is my main creep since before ROI because i was tired of being farmed by burgs or hunters while trying to do the map quests. So yes, some freeps actually like that pathetic playstyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    3. No it is not. It is a landscape to fit every playstyle. You can zerg, solo, raid, spar. You can even be a coward and stand stealthed at the graveyard (as you assume, I say it is a &&&&&&&& playstyle) or round up 2-23 mates and build a wargpack for your funny endeveaours.
    - I consequently deny every request to join warg packs or warg tribes.
    - Playing solo is kinda difficult. You can solo Minis and RKs as warg. But that needs time. But the longer the fight lasts the higher the chance of other freeps riding in and roflstomp you. (works for creepside as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    4. What minstrel is doing damage in a raid situation? Standard raids still consist of roudabout 6 hunters. As always and usually no more than two RKs...
    Standard freep group: 1-4 hunters, occasionally 1-2 guards and champs, 1LM, 1 warden, 1-2 burgs, 0-2 RKs, many Minis

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post
    5. Well I do not agree, I do not need survivability skills. I need my bloody class fixed. Medium armour and the fact that I am standing defenseless for a whole 4 seconds in every fight due to my ridiculously long animations. By the way stance-dancing should be disabled. For every class, especially for wargs, pouncing from stealth, getting into flayer and dropping it to gain access to disappear.
    For me stance-dancing is changing between active stances. Like hunters can do. I think wardens too. Wargs can only semi-dance. No stance -> stance -> no stance. What I would not like to see is hunters having a dps stance and a survivability stance which they can switch without CD. That would be OP.

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post

    So, yes we can be in a very dangerous situation in solo, but in a group we will survive much longer. We do, do not deny it, have the best single target burst dps, which is essential in the Moors since you would usually, solo or grouped, focus on target after target.
    We do not yet know what is in store for us in Rohan, but if we achieved a proper healing/escape skill, that should be able to fix the current situation: ''I see a Hunter running over there! Time to get some Lunch!''
    +rep for you

    Strangely, I cannot remember to have ever encountered your hunter in the moors. Maybe better that way.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragnipurake View Post
    Wargs can not. There is a cooldown after dropping a stance.
    Wargs don't need stance dancing. A well played warg starts a 1vs1 pouncing + crit response + wounding + slow, build some distance between him and the oponent while hiting Flayer. After that wargs have enough tools to win or run, because they can always drop flayer and hit disappear (no stupid animation or channel cooldown; hit and run).
    And for hunters they can just use shadow, because is perfect to kill a ranged class based on inductions. If a warg pot anti stun before the dazing blow, the fight is over.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post

    So, yes we can be in a very dangerous situation in solo, but in a group we will survive much longer. We do, do not deny it, have the best single target burst dps, which is essential in the Moors since you would usually, solo or grouped, focus on target after target.
    We do not yet know what is in store for us in Rohan, but if we achieved a proper healing/escape skill, that should be able to fix the current situation: ''I see a Hunter running over there! Time to get some Lunch!''
    i will have to disagree.... giving us 1 surival skill will not slove all our problems. it will HELP but it will not entirly remove our problems.

    for one, we will still have our dipressing reliance on pen shot and only have a limited number of shots.

    to become moors independent and sustained combat viable, we have to have a solid dps on the move stance that will allow us to dps while on the move while getting hit (as opposed to the current "hope i have enough focus to spam pen shot" method) this will allow us to be squishy while having our DPS as a buffer to counter our softness. a range limitation may be applied


    a survival skill is desperatly needed i agree. and that will solve some of our current "warg food" perception, but we also need a way to fight back fast and hard.





    our preception needs to be that of RK: ok he's squishy.... but he hits hard.... do i really want to mess with him?

    not of simply (with only survival skill) : ok, hes got a emergency button, but i can still PWN him if i hit my "i win" buttons

    and not of current : food. eat. BURRRRRP
    Last edited by Lendas; Jul 27 2012 at 11:26 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post
    Press Onward takes a lot longer to get off than you think. A 4s induction to heal, what, 2000 morale? Is that worth it when you have something hitting you? (Punching knocks it back when they are disarmed).
    I believe with proper traits/gear/skills the induction can be lowered to around 3 seconds, but you took what I said out of context, and didn't bother to include the rest. I left that as one of the options that you have. Personally I would go with a swift bow/pen shot combination but who knows what situation might call for certain skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post
    No experienced Hunter goes Strength Stance. None.
    Perhaps your unwillingness to think outside the box is one of the things that keeps you from using your hunter to his full ability.


    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post
    There is a lot more up for sale to give fear immunity than simply fear pots.
    Aside from a brand any other pot has to be used out of combat. Nice try though.

    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post
    Everyone over-exaggerates this. No solo hunter can hit Penetrating Shot for 2.5k unless the creep has the lowest audacity and is below rank 4. You say these high numbers because now a days the majority of hunters group up, and grouping up means buffs, and buffs mean more damage.
    I happen to know of two right off the top of my head who can easily do this solo, and I have full audacity. These numbers are not fantasized, they are facts. One of these hunters has also scored a dev with heartseeker on a warg (Granted, he almost definitely had 1 audacity) for 19k (only grouped with a burglar). You severely underestimate the potential of your class.

    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post
    You make some valid points, but with no experience as a hunter.
    We have no heals whatsoever. Unless we pay through the store. I can not stress that enough. Press Onward will 99% of the time be interrupted due to set back.
    PvP-wise you are correct, sadly I cannot see things through the same "lens" as you, because I have never taken a hunter into the moors, however I have fought them countless times, and had my fair share of wins and losses. You're right, aside from a morale pot you don't have any legitimate heals, but with a clever playstyle and good setup, you certainly have the ability to solo in the moors. I admit, hunters could certainly use some survival skills, but they'd need to sacrifice a lot of dps. Unlike minstrels, wardens, and champs, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Creeps have enough FoTMs on their hands as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessy82 View Post
    This (and the part about creeps exaggerating pen/blood damage.)
    None of what I said was exaggerated in the least. Their are 3 hunters (almost 4) on my server who can achieve those numbers frequently, and 2 who can do it without a glass cannon build. (7k morale unbuffed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessy82 View Post
    You're a rank 7, non-vip freaver, very limited experience in the moors.
    Yes, I am, as you say, a "freaver". And because of this that somehow belittles the importance of the opinions/facts which I previously stated? The arrogance behind your statement is astounding. You don't have a clue as to how much experience I have, you're taking a guess because I'm only rank 7. I play on a small server, I play an underpowered class, I play creepside which is already underpowered compared to freepside (collectively, not necessarily individually), and I spend a good deal of time on my freeps, which doesn't exactly leave hours to spend levelling my creeps (Incidentally, I play a warg as well. Which I grinded TP to get). I've also grinded enough tp so that I now own every single zone in Eriador, the RoI base expansion (won in a writing competition), and the Moria expansion (which includes the warden and rk class slots). Add on to that the gold cap increase, several class/virtue/corruption/racial trait slots, and the riding skill for 3 characters, and you'll see that I've got a good deal of experience at this game. I have played each class at one point or another, and I have played 5 of the 6 creep classes (the other 3 aside from reaver/warg were played on Bullroarer) so I know a good deal on just about every single class and it's mechanics.
    Whereas you, who pays money each month for the only truly special benefit of being able to PvMP as a freep. I actually own more of this game than you do. But clearly, because you pay to play you are inherently more important and wiser than I am.

    Time, my good sir, is money, and it's the currency I prefer to spend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessy82 View Post
    Sounds like you need some audacity/mits/skill. Even a gimpy hunter can kill a bad player, regardless of class.
    I have full audacity, creeps can only increase their mitigations through traits, which would be a stupid waste, and you have no idea as to my skill level. Sounds like you need to stop showing your ignorance to the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessy82 View Post
    Also, press onward is a waste of 3 seconds, since you won't get it off in the fight against an opponent who knows what he's doing, and in that case you probably won't need it.
    I left it there as an option, I hardly claimed it was a must-use skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessy82 View Post
    As for low cut, I want my slow removal/immunity back. If the old moors set had audacity, I'd be in heaven. That in and of itself got me away from countless sticky situations, and was by far the most useful skill the hunter's had. Which is why turbine removed it, of course.
    And I'd like a skill that slowed for more than 15 seconds on a 10 second cooldown that gets parried/evaded/blocked 30% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    well there is a 1 second delay from when you hit low cut to when the hit effect takes place... now i not saying i cant hit at all with this skill, just that often when you have a reaver/warg doing that click-spam turn thing where they are going though you 2 times a second, its hard to get it off and have the creep be in front of you at the same time.
    Against a player with good movement I can see how it would be troublesome at times. But if a warg/reaver has that good movement and they're already in melee range, then you're probably dead regardless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    im sorry.... but must i repeat myself? pot the disarm.... wound pot.... -.-
    btw gut punch can be used without wepons if i recall.
    Ah, I keep forgetting about Resilience for some reason. Yes, you're right. For some reason I was thinking the Reaver would be using the wound pot for the slow, therefore unable to pot the disarm, but it seems I goofed on that one! As for Gut Punch, it can, but majority of the time it's going to be on cooldown since reavers like to use it in conjunction with Ravage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    i will say however, on the matter of hunter crits

    [center] if a hunter hits your reaver for 2k (on a lucky dev crit from focus buff + burn hot ... assuming you have full audacity)

    you (on avrage with VIP traiting) have 13k-15k morale...

    that 2k is 1/6.5 to 1/7.5 of your entire morale.
    I do have full audacity, and they can and do hit for 2k+ on a regular crit, and yes, I have 15.7k morale. You are correct that one shot alone is not enough to send me packing, but lets not forget that these shots can be chained together quickly, and if you get off a swift bow before or after then suddenly things change quite dramatically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    if a warg crits (normal cirt, shadow) for 1k with claws, that is 1/7 of the hunters morale
    (considering i got hit for 400-500 often by wargs... its like getting hit for 1k to your avrage creep)
    Very true, and like I said earlier, if a good warg pounces you, then you probably aren't going to survive. The Warg class just happens to stack up well against a hunter. Similarly, my reaver doesn't stand a chance against a halfway decent shieldwarden or minstrel. Sometimes that's just how it goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    if a RVR crits for 2k dev strike (has been calculated at around 50% pre crit defence) that is 2/7 of the hunters morale...
    I rarely crit for 2k against even a light armoured class. and usually I'm in a group with buffs when it does happen. I generally consider a 1.5k crit fortunate whenever I'm fighting someone, and I have experienced several 700-800 shots on non-crits against a heavy armour. I wouldn't bank on a reaver getting 2k on you even 15% of the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    so in essence... some creeps dont to less damage than freeps( in conflict with the current preception that all creeps do less damage)... because in comparison to the morale of your opponent (in the case of hunter, a 2k crit to reaver will = a 1k crit to hunter) both sides do the same damage % wise
    This comparison works with the hunter class, but it's not even close to some of the other classes. Such as champions who average 8k morale and have auto-crit Remorseless which averages around 3k (Seen as high as 5-6k on a devastate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    i hit you for 400?

    you hit me for 200. same damage % wise

    i hit you for 300 quick shot?

    you hit me for 150 on one hit of 2 hits in ' quick strikes'
    That math isn't exactly accurate, and your quick shot ought to be hitting for a heck of a lot more than 300. But I see your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    DIFFRENCE?

    everyone else has MORE COMBAT CAPABILITY and BETTER SURVIVAL THAN HUNTER
    That is debatable, dealing in absolutes when it comes to PvP is not generally a good idea, because the options for different builds have far too great a spectrum.


    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Also, what about LOS? You said in another post that any creep thirty meters away is dead. I assume you mean non-ba. Okay, what if the creep goes the other way? Especially a reaver or warg, who break combat, use Charge or Stealth and are huh ohes no longer 30 meters away?
    LoS is not as easy as you might make it out to be. In the general "hotspot" areas that a hunter should be prowling, there aren't a whole lot of things to LoS a hunter with, and certainly not something he couldn't get around. Also, remember that the creep is probably going to be "shell-shocked" for a second or two since damage from stealth doesn't show up on screen and he won't know where you appeared from (unless you're right in front of him).

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Btw, no halfway decent hunter will use Strength Stance because you won't get the focus generation for those OP Pshots and Blood arrows to hit for 2 and 3 k lies.
    Those 2-3k shots are very real, whether you want to believe them or not. It could be your build that doesn't allow you to attain them or simple unwillingness to accept that you aren't as "gimped" as you want to believe, but as someone who experiences them regularly, I assure you they are quite real.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    And you mentioned it but didn't address it... what if that reaver does brand, hmm?
    That's a loaded question, and not worth answering. But the same applies to just about anyone who brands during a fight, 9 times out of 10, they'll win.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Let me ask you as a creep player. You've been running your mouth alot so I would assume you have the guts to answer the question: In regards to hunters, what are you so afraid of?
    I run my mouth in reply to the overwhelming flood of tears which proceeds from ignorant hunters (and you are not one of them) in this thread who are crying a river bigger than the hoardale. Yes, your class if far from the strongest, and could maybe use some tweaks, but to say that it is "dead" is not only pitiful, but wholly untrue.




    (Apologies for any typos or other mental errors which may have been made during this post, as I was writing late at night and not exactly fully alert)

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    Similarly, my reaver doesn't stand a chance against a halfway decent shieldwarden or minstrel. Sometimes that's just how it goes.
    Care to name ANY creep class that can stand up to a (skilled) shield-traited warden or a minstrel that heals themselves in a 1v1? Sure, some classes can last much longer than others (i.e. warleader, defiler) but in the end will still likely bite the dust assuming similar skill levels. In this inherently lies the problem in my eyes, that certain classes can just faceroll their way through the moors and not have to worry about nearly any confrontation, while we've been relegated to the bottom of the food chain and must essentially hope for getting the jump on creeps, or again, getting lucky on crits to win fights.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    I believe with proper traits/gear/skills the induction can be lowered to around 3 seconds
    Not sure if this ...



    ..or just this one



    This also shows you tend to build your argument based on paper calculations - and use belief instead of actual knowledge. Results of such combination are kinda obvious - lines such as above - and as below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    Perhaps your unwillingness to think outside the box is one of the things that keeps you from using your hunter to his full ability.
    Also, this is perhaps the reason you are repeating the whole silliness - even though people have been describing to you various issues again and again.

    YES, you can use Strenght, trait CB, hit dev pot, switch/macro Cudur, finally hit Improved Focus and use... yes, Heartseeker as an opener. I am not sure you can see it as you ignored pretty much the same, but differently constructed responses from actual hunters so far, but I included both stupid ideas and several things that can lead to only one result with *consistency*. And this consistent result is NOT "OMG Numbers! Shiny numbers! I just hit with Heartseeker for 2345345!". Yes, genius hunter, you did. It was about as relevant to the stuff Lendas has been saying and to overall efficiency of the class as your line about "outside the box". Or let me put it this way: you do not build any reasonable argument around lottery tickets, no matter how many times you've seen your neighbours win. But if you spend your time watching them with grim face or making some calculations on "how often they win during the time I watched them from my window"... and you try to create some "winning tactics" then sure, they will work - on paper and in unreal enviroment.

    Again, your entire set of ideas is not far off in quality from people saying that dev on HS somehow defines class capabilities and your playstyle should be built around it to mantain efficiency. Then some creep comes around and asks "Oh, wait, what if I slot 4 Crit Defenses? I know they kinda suck, but "on paper" your crit chain has just been halved into 10-ish %.... and what about dev?". Funny thing is, there are people who will still claim "I've been one-shot with devs from the same hunter 10 times today!". As there are still people who will claim that tactics based on camping spots and hoping for distance opener is completely valid in the long run and it's not like it depends on opponents.

    What part of even that stupid bubble champ has depends on opponent being naive? It just works. Lendas has been - among many things - arguing for survivability skill. You offer survivability "tactics", built - as that Press Onward blunder proves - mostly on second-hand knowledge.
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Jul 28 2012 at 06:57 AM.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post



    >This also shows you tend to build your argument based on paper calculations - and use belief instead of actual knowledge. Results of such combination are kinda obvious




    >YES, you can use Strenght, trait CB, hit dev pot, switch/macro Cudur, finally hit Improved Focus and use... yes, Heartseeker as an opener.

    > they will work - on paper and in unreal enviroment.

    >Again, your entire set of ideas is not far off in quality from people saying that dev on HS somehow defines class capabilities

    > As there are still people who will claim that tactics based on camping spots and hoping for distance opener is completely valid in the long run and it's not like it depends on opponents.
    well put. + rep

    and look... look how much stuff you have to do to get a good opener off... by the time you'r done... the target could be out of reach or too close...


    and sadly... even our current most effective playstyle (steath, buff up, opener) has a lot of holes (and will probably be gone entierly post RoR as well) with having only one class (reaver) to effectivly jump without fear of them hitting their "I WIN" skills that practicly make you auto lose. and for the number of times i've been jumped or forced out of stealth by a track or being spotted.... its not at all foolproof

    all other creep classes have an I WIN skill,
    BA+MT+uruk heal,
    Warg+hips+sprint,
    defiler heals+flies,
    spider burrow, (30% damage reflect post RoR makes us hurt ourselves)
    WL uruk heal + quitters never win + insta defence banner+ (post RoR) both debuff banners + mits


    and even reavers are a tough nut to crack with 15k and resilience with blade toss and the like


    and yes, sadly creeps define us as killing machines because we can output crazy dps from stealthed opening..... and somehow forget how they mow us down everywhere else.

    why are we focred into one situation to become viable NOW (and post RoR even stealth jump wont be enough) and be roast everywhere else?

    what if i want to run around, encounter a creep, and have a fight WITHOUT all the annying prep and complications with set swapping and using consumables and the like? everyone else can do it.

    why cant i just FIGHT a creep?

    why do i always have to be the target?

    why cant i be effective without all the best gear?


    i have seen some of the best and exceptional hunters on my server be sucessful in stealth attacking....

    but those are exceptional people with all the best gear.
    and they can only be effective from stealth opener...





    and for all those who say that if a ranged class should die if they get jumped by a melee.....

    look at BA
    look at Spider
    look at defiler
    look at RK
    look at warden (assailment)
    look at mini
    look at LM (though they are weak as well)


    ask for them to be nerfed because they can survive a melee jumping them.

    before you cry that hunters should die if they get jumped.... please... go cry that BA's should get a nerf because they can win VS melee.


  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrumMajorC View Post
    Care to name ANY creep class that can stand up to a (skilled) shield-traited warden or a minstrel that heals themselves in a 1v1? Sure, some classes can last much longer than others (i.e. warleader, defiler) but in the end will still likely bite the dust assuming similar skill levels. In this inherently lies the problem in my eyes, that certain classes can just faceroll their way through the moors and not have to worry about nearly any confrontation, while we've been relegated to the bottom of the food chain and must essentially hope for getting the jump on creeps, or again, getting lucky on crits to win fights.
    You don't like the fact that Turbine has made other classes which are on your side being so much better than you. Think about how creeps feel about having to fight classes which are so massively overpowered it's not even funny anymore. I get your frustration, I really do. As a reaver I have to work a whole lot harder for a kill in a RvR than some croob Warg(s) that just gank a rk/hunter/lm then hips/sprint away. But I do enjoy my class nonetheless, and I can do some damage against the freeps. You're class may be near the "bottom of the barrel" but it still has it's place in PvP, and a good hunter is one to be feared in the moors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    This also shows you tend to build your argument based on paper calculations - and use belief instead of actual knowledge. Results of such combination are kinda obvious - lines such as above - and as below:
    And again, you've taken my quote out of context. I never said you should use Press Onward, I said it was an option. And I even went so far as to say I probably wouldn't use it in most situations, but you never know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    YES, you can use Strenght, trait CB, hit dev pot, switch/macro Cudur, finally hit Improved Focus and use... yes, Heartseeker as an opener.
    You have, again, completely missed the point. When I made the point about a hunter hitting a 19k Heartseeker I was not advocating Hunters to spam HS all the time because it has the potential to 1 shot creeps. I used it as an example to show that Hunters still have massive dps potential and are quite capable of hitting for 2-3k on a Pen shot/blood arrow, which some of you don't want to accept for reasons unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    Yes, genius hunter, you did. It was about as relevant to the stuff Lendas has been saying and to overall efficiency of the class as your line about "outside the box". Or let me put it this way: you do not build any reasonable argument around lottery tickets, no matter how many times you've seen your neighbours win. But if you spend your time watching them with grim face or making some calculations on "how often they win during the time I watched them from my window"... and you try to create some "winning tactics" then sure, they will work - on paper and in unreal enviroment.
    It took me a couple of minutes to try and see how this warped and massively incorrect pile of conjecture somehow pertained to what I actually said, but I think I see the connection you so desperately tried to make.
    I believe you are trying to mock the two ideas or "strategies" if you will, that I posted earlier which contained some ways to potentially get some distance between yourself and a creep who jumped you. I never stated these are "guaranteed to work" or that because of some math I did I'm certain you'll win. I have no earthly idea whether it would work in reality or not, but yes, on paper the strategy does seem to be a sound one, and therefore one worth trying some time. Trial and error is the only way to improve. If you find yourself continually dying when solo, your immediate assumption should be that you and your strategy is wrong. I know two hunters who are fantastic at soloing, they've clearly found a strategy that "works" for them. Instead of declaring your class dead, look in the mirror and realize that odds are, you're the one doing something wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    Again, your entire set of ideas is not far off in quality from people saying that dev on HS somehow defines class capabilities and your playstyle should be built around it to mantain efficiency.
    You haven't got a clue what I was getting at when I mentioned the 19k heartseeker. This much is obvious from the mass amount of ignorance that this post is rank with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    Then some creep comes around and asks "Oh, wait, what if I slot 4 Crit Defenses? I know they kinda suck, but "on paper" your crit chain has just been halved into 10-ish %.... and what about dev?".
    Crit defense traits are just as bad on paper as they are in reality. Really, your attempts to shoot down an imagined argument that it's become downright pitiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    What part of even that stupid bubble champ has depends on opponent being naive? It just works. Lendas has been - among many things - arguing for survivability skill. You offer survivability "tactics", built - as that Press Onward blunder proves - mostly on second-hand knowledge.
    This may come as a shock to you, because you don't seem to want to accept that you might be doing something wrong, but survival tactics ARE what your class was designed for. You don't need survival skills because your class has been given the tools to work around it. You still have a blind insistence on an obscure quote from a previous post which I made that keeps being taken out of context, when you are missing the entire point of what I've been advocating from the start. With proper setup and the right placement of things, you won't need a survival skill to beat your opponent (unless you are unfortunate and are caught by a pack of wargs). You can track, you can set traps, you can stealth, and you can dish out the best single target dps in the game. Use it.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    and sadly... even our current most effective playstyle (steath, buff up, opener) has a lot of holes (and will probably be gone entierly post RoR as well) with having only one class (reaver) to effectivly jump without fear of them hitting their "I WIN" skills that practicly make you auto lose. and for the number of times i've been jumped or forced out of stealth by a track or being spotted.... its not at all foolproof.

    all other creep classes have an I WIN skill,
    BA+MT+uruk heal,
    Warg+hips+sprint,
    defiler heals+flies,
    spider burrow, (30% damage reflect post RoR makes us hurt ourselves)
    WL uruk heal + quitters never win + insta defence banner+ (post RoR) both debuff banners + mits
    Despite popular belief, creeps don't always have their "I WIN" skills off cooldown, and calling the WL banner/heals/mits and Spider Burrow an "I WIN" skill is completely ridiculous. Defiler flies are kinda of unfair, but they make up for an otherwise gimped class. And on top of that, you can literally walk away from a defiler's pathetic dps, so it's not actually a class that's going to beat you, it's just one that you'll have trouble killing. And there are plenty of defilers who aren't toting around improved flies which you should have no difficulty killing if you catch them without npcs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    and even reavers are a tough nut to crack with 15k and resilience with blade toss and the like
    Not every reaver has resilience, not every reaver has blade toss, and not every reaver has 15k health. Same goes for all the other classes, for that matter. Yes, it's very difficult for you to beat high ranked creeps unless you catch them seriously off guard and without some cooldowns, but it's also nigh well impossible for my Reaver to beat a good Guardian, Warden, Champion, Minstrel, Captain, and Burglar, simply because of the tools they've been given. And don't even get me started on the I WIN buttons that freeps have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    and yes, sadly creeps define us as killing machines because we can output crazy dps from stealthed opening..... and somehow forget how they mow us down everywhere else.
    Something to note, my KB log on both my Warg and Reaver have RKs and Loremasters at a good deal higher than hunters. You aren't constantly farmed. And you're very frustrating if you're in a raid and grouped with a healer/guardian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    why are we focred into one situation to become viable NOW (and post RoR even stealth jump wont be enough) and be roast everywhere else?
    Why is my Reaver forced to activate charge, use devastating strike, Ravage+Gut Punch, and Hamstring (not in that order obviously) every fight for me to have a chance to win? I want my reaver to be able to dps from range with a 2 second cooldown on Blade-Toss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    what if i want to run around, encounter a creep, and have a fight WITHOUT all the annying prep and complications with set swapping and using consumables and the like? everyone else can do it.
    Everyone else cannot do it, and if you could then you'd be just as OP as Minstrels, Champions, and Wardens. Your class is designed so that it is most effective when it has time to set up. If you want to be able to do the things you've just mentioned then roll a different class. It's bad enough that freepside's main healer has crazy on-the-move dps with full self heals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    why cant i just FIGHT a creep?
    You can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    why do i always have to be the target?
    You aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    why cant i be effective without all the best gear?
    For the same reason my reaver doesn't stand a chance without his corruptions, class traits, and racials.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    i have seen some of the best and exceptional hunters on my server be sucessful in stealth attacking....
    Ask them for tips.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    but those are exceptional people with all the best gear.
    and they can only be effective from stealth opener...
    If they're only effective from stealth opener, then they aren't exceptional, and you need better hunters on your server. If you need better gear to be like these "exceptional" hunters, then get it, in the safety of PvE land.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    well put. + rep

    and look... look how much stuff you have to do to get a good opener off... by the time you'r done... the target could be out of reach or too close...


    and sadly... even our current most effective playstyle (steath, buff up, opener) has a lot of holes (and will probably be gone entierly post RoR as well) with having only one class (reaver) to effectivly jump without fear of them hitting their "I WIN" skills that practicly make you auto lose. and for the number of times i've been jumped or forced out of stealth by a track or being spotted.... its not at all foolproof

    all other creep classes have an I WIN skill,
    BA+MT+uruk heal,
    Warg+hips+sprint,
    defiler heals+flies,
    spider burrow, (30% damage reflect post RoR makes us hurt ourselves)
    WL uruk heal + quitters never win + insta defence banner+ (post RoR) both debuff banners + mits


    and even reavers are a tough nut to crack with 15k and resilience with blade toss and the like


    and yes, sadly creeps define us as killing machines because we can output crazy dps from stealthed opening..... and somehow forget how they mow us down everywhere else.

    why are we focred into one situation to become viable NOW (and post RoR even stealth jump wont be enough) and be roast everywhere else?

    what if i want to run around, encounter a creep, and have a fight WITHOUT all the annying prep and complications with set swapping and using consumables and the like? everyone else can do it.

    why cant i just FIGHT a creep?

    why do i always have to be the target?

    why cant i be effective without all the best gear?


    i have seen some of the best and exceptional hunters on my server be sucessful in stealth attacking....

    but those are exceptional people with all the best gear.
    and they can only be effective from stealth opener...





    and for all those who say that if a ranged class should die if they get jumped by a melee.....

    look at BA
    look at Spider
    look at defiler
    look at RK
    look at warden (assailment)
    look at mini
    look at LM (though they are weak as well)


    ask for them to be nerfed because they can survive a melee jumping them.

    before you cry that hunters should die if they get jumped.... please... go cry that BA's should get a nerf because they can win VS melee.

    Ferth why argue with this guy he doesnt even play a hunter and has no clue.... just uses the absolute BEST case scenario to define the class... which invloves the BEST gear, gear swapping, best crit/dev.... and using techniques like hiding in camo/hiding on pillars or using range from 2nd floor keeps... Im sure any real hunter pvp'r wouldnt resort to doing this if they had a choice...

    Pre Audacity or low Aud low rank a top geared hunter COULD destroy from range and was probably OP due to insane crits/devs and with farron could win a great deal of 1v1's melee jumped or not.... that was then this is now.. I got tired of gear swapping, packs full of consumables, bow chants focus pots, usless pvp sets... taking away a skill like low cut slow removal which makes a ton of sense for hunter and was a nice equalizer and giving it to another class. Sure seemed like an intentional attempt to screw the hunter class.... I cant help coming back and see what they do for RoR but seems like the same BS...

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    Despite popular belief, creeps don't always have their "I WIN" skills off cooldown, and calling the WL banner/heals/mits and Spider Burrow an "I WIN" skill is completely ridiculous. Defiler flies are kinda of unfair, but they make up for an otherwise gimped class. And on top of that, you can literally walk away from a defiler's pathetic dps, so it's not actually a class that's going to beat you, it's just one that you'll have trouble killing. And there are plenty of defilers who aren't toting around improved flies which you should have no difficulty killing if you catch them without npcs.



    Not every reaver has resilience, not every reaver has blade toss, and not every reaver has 15k health. Same goes for all the other classes, for that matter. Yes, it's very difficult for you to beat high ranked creeps unless you catch them seriously off guard and without some cooldowns, but it's also nigh well impossible for my Reaver to beat a good Guardian, Warden, Champion, Minstrel, Captain, and Burglar, simply because of the tools they've been given. And don't even get me started on the I WIN buttons that freeps have.




    Something to note, my KB log on both my Warg and Reaver have RKs and Loremasters at a good deal higher than hunters. You aren't constantly farmed. And you're very frustrating if you're in a raid and grouped with a healer/guardian.



    Why is my Reaver forced to activate charge, use devastating strike, Ravage+Gut Punch, and Hamstring (not in that order obviously) every fight for me to have a chance to win? I want my reaver to be able to dps from range with a 2 second cooldown on Blade-Toss.



    Everyone else cannot do it, and if you could then you'd be just as OP as Minstrels, Champions, and Wardens. Your class is designed so that it is most effective when it has time to set up. If you want to be able to do the things you've just mentioned then roll a different class. It's bad enough that freepside's main healer has crazy on-the-move dps with full self heals.



    You can.



    You aren't.



    For the same reason my reaver doesn't stand a chance without his corruptions, class traits, and racials.



    Ask them for tips.



    If they're only effective from stealth opener, then they aren't exceptional, and you need better hunters on your server. If you need better gear to be like these "exceptional" hunters, then get it, in the safety of PvE land.
    even though you have creep goggles on, most likely do not have a lvl cap hunter, and overall deny facts.... i will respond
    to your post....


    1: yes not everyone has their i win skills off cooldown (especially spiders).... but they are none the less..... when a spider hits burrow.... you lose the element of supprise, 99% of non-newbie spiders have burrow heal, and spider pets will harass/debuff the hunter, then spider can pop up and eat his pet if its being attacked, mez you, debuff you, get in your face, use heal/b/p/e buffs skills.... foces you to use your enternally long psn cure.... heals self.... 30% attack and induct durations.... yea you are dead.

    a ranked, decent spider will have enough skills to kill you if they hit burrow from your initial attack. they dont have it up all the time, but hey! sometimes they dont need to.

    WL has enough mits and heals to out last your initial burst DPS and enough debuffs and the like to kills you if you stick around. with quitters never win (current 3kish heal) soon to be on a 3min cooldown having its cooldown reduced by healing skills 15 sec a pop... and uruk heal.... if they hit those.... you will have a TIME trying to kill him.


    2:
    reavers are NOT forced to use charge and the likes to win. perhaps against the OP freep classes, but by NO MEANS are you required to use them (i can name plenty of examples for a good reaver mid ranked to be able to win without those skills... btw reavers are getting a buffing in RoR, even more capability)

    sorry that you cant beat those good freeps. perhaps its because reaver is underpowered atm...or that you are doing something wrong

    perhaps you'r afraid that if hunters get fixed your only source of e-z kills will go away?


    3:

    roll another class... what a pile of rubbish that is being thrown at us all the time.... "if you dont like your class... play another class".... well what if i want to play like my creep counterpart? what if i love my class?

    i for one love hunter... but the class is blatantly broken... so this is why im here. if we dont get fixed during RoR realease (note: as a said before... 99% sure we wont) we will be dead in the moors ( dont make me explain again)

    we dont ask to be mini's here..... we ask to be able to be viable. throw that "you are viable" rubbish again and i will be forced to repeat myself that post RoR we wont and we hardly have a foothold in the moors as we are.

    4: guess what those "pro" hunters told me? they where going to go play "that other game" come RoR.
    and their only tip was: stealth, sit, wait, buff up, spam pen shot, hope target dies. most of them where swapping out faron set, buffing up with fleetness, and then switching back to moors set....

    why are we EVEN NOW forced to do that?










    sadly... most of your post is a blatant denial of facts.... and seeing the only people who say hunter is not broken are the people who benefit from our demise.... my only response is:

    ...................







    Quote Originally Posted by therealwhizzy View Post
    Ferth why argue with this guy he doesnt even play a hunter and has no clue.... just uses the absolute BEST case scenario to define the class... which invloves the BEST gear, gear swapping, best crit/dev.... and using techniques like hiding in camo/hiding on pillars or using range from 2nd floor keeps... Im sure any real hunter pvp'r wouldnt resort to doing this if they had a choice...

    Pre Audacity or low Aud low rank a top geared hunter COULD destroy from range and was probably OP due to insane crits/devs and with farron could win a great deal of 1v1's melee jumped or not.... that was then this is now.. I got tired of gear swapping, packs full of consumables, bow chants focus pots, usless pvp sets... taking away a skill like low cut slow removal which makes a ton of sense for hunter and was a nice equalizer and giving it to another class. Sure seemed like an intentional attempt to screw the hunter class.... I cant help coming back and see what they do for RoR but seems like the same BS...

    ^^^^^ this.
    Last edited by Lendas; Jul 28 2012 at 01:27 PM.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    Trial and error is the only way to improve. If you find yourself continually dying when solo, your immediate assumption should be that you and your strategy is wrong. I know two hunters who are fantastic at soloing, they've clearly found a strategy that "works" for them. Instead of declaring your class dead, look in the mirror and realize that odds are, you're the one doing something wrong.
    I'm giving my two cents that those two hunters that are fantastic at soloing are the ones that were given three first age symbols, the ultimate jewellery combinations, six major legacies on their weapons, store pots + stats and, probably, using exploits.

    'Regular' Hunters have little chance to be spoilt like some rich people that play. I, for one, know one hunter that had an infinite amount of store items, and is un-killable (As in, they will pop an immunity brand, speed potion, store potion and RUN).


    Just, please, do not talk about strategies for this class when you do not have an end-game Hunter.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragnipurake View Post
    What I would not like to see is hunters having a dps stance and a survivability stance which they can switch without CD. That would be OP.
    we have a 5 seconds shared cd on stances

    and btw ain't what wargs already have? a dps stance (shadow) to jump in and whreck my back from stealth then a stance with much more survivability (and also some nasty tricks like induction interrupt debuff, knockdown etc)

    i would anytime love something like this, start combat in precision (or strenght if u want) and pew pew then drop in some survivability/utility/melee stance with no dps bonus

  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilladh View Post
    we have a 5 seconds shared cd on stances
    Wargs have a shared CD on their 2 stances. It think it is 10s. But not 100% sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilladh View Post
    and btw ain't what wargs already have? a dps stance (shadow) to jump in and whreck my back from stealth then a stance with much more survivability (and also some nasty tricks like induction interrupt debuff, knockdown etc)
    No, they don't. The scenario you describe is: pounce from stealth with no stance active, next activate flayer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilladh View Post
    i would anytime love something like this, start combat in precision (or strenght if u want) and pew pew then drop in some survivability/utility/melee stance with no dps bonus
    This is why wargs have the shared CD on their stances. It would be OP for them to directly change from shadow to flayer and back, as it would be OP for a hunter to directly change from a dps stance to a proposed survivability stance.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    And again, you've taken my quote out of context. I never said you should use Press Onward, I said it was an option. And I even went so far as to say I probably wouldn't use it in most situations, but you never know.
    What context is even relevant? You are imagining some way of reducing PO induction and that is what makes those two two ideas comparable - both are based on some second-hand knowledge you didn't even bother to verify. Now it seems you didn't even bother to check after posting because you were talking nonsense... I guess that expertise of other people you are trying to convey didn't cover that..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    You have, again, completely missed the point. When I made the point about a hunter hitting a 19k Heartseeker I was not advocating Hunters to spam HS all the time because it has the potential to 1 shot creeps. I used it as an example to show that Hunters still have massive dps potential and are quite capable of hitting for 2-3k on a Pen shot/blood arrow, which some of you don't want to accept for reasons unknown.
    Ugh... it seems you are oblivious to the fact that you are trying to present those ideas like some sort of new sliced bread. If past analogies were not easy enough, then try this one: imagine some hunters are complaining about "my dps is too low, I can't win any fight ". Then you post something like "Try using ISB, it has only 5s cooldown - and PS too, when it crits it helps a lot". And then you are trying to figure out why people look at you with bewilderment, that could be summed up as "yes... we kinda know that, we tend to play this class from time to time you see; and what 5s cd, do you even know what you are talking about??". Here's how your point looks like, CD or not CD - might as well be S:S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    It took me a couple of minutes to try and see how this warped and massively incorrect pile of conjecture somehow pertained to what I actually said, but I think I see the connection you so desperately tried to make.
    No you don't. The connection lies within relying on RNG and second - hand knowledge. You have no idea why or how exactly your neighbours won, all you do is make some tactics based on what you see through the window. And it is about getting rich (decent class gameplay for Moors), not about a lottery (winning via pure RNG) both you and current system are trying to praise even though it's mostly a byproduct of stat uncapping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    I believe you are trying to mock the two ideas or "strategies" (that ) contained some ways to potentially get some distance (...) I never stated these are "guaranteed to work" or that because of some math I did I'm certain you'll win. I have no earthly idea whether it would work in reality or not, but yes, on paper the strategy does seem to be a sound one, and therefore one worth trying some time.
    And you seem to think it is a good idea to convince someone who probably has spent a lot of *real* time on this and is debating your idea from the PoV of the class you are trying to imagine... Thanks for being honest I guess, but if you are aware of that, try to imagine each time you post a skill or rotation idea it WILL contain drawbacks. Ignore or refuse to figure them out and you might as well imagine yourself as someone arguing against warg buffs "because they are already powerful, they ignore bpe AND can topple". Same goes about your stuff like S:S and other ideas that collectively make your suggestions look like above "warg qq" - just in reverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    You haven't got a clue what I was getting at when I mentioned the 19k heartseeker. This much is obvious from the mass amount of ignorance that this post is rank with.
    Yes, I am sure I have no clue, it's not like 19k has no connection to RNG, to entire set of requirements and conditions. If you think you can mention such thing without automatically falling under all above you are the one being ignorant. Heartseeker is not "dps", is not independent from other conditions and finally - has no consistent value for gameplay. Unless 90% of such gameplay relies on camo selfrooting and pointless staring at your screen. If your hunter friends define their entertainment like this - well, I pity them, but... their hours to waste, not mine.

    Entire laughter that was directed at your 2,5PS" throughout this thread was about the fact it is a crit... RNG defines lives of many classes so it's not exclusive complaint, but here goes: it relies on a bloody rating and that's why defining anything based on <25% is hilarious. Please don't tell me about Improved Focus, I hope you already can imagine why...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    Crit defense traits are just as bad on paper as they are in reality. Really, your attempts to shoot down an imagined argument that it's become downright pitiful.
    By the way, since this is no longer your "second-hand" knowledge: what reason for that "being bad" would you bring, numbers lying with something better than selection bias "they still crit me" kind of proof? Curiosity...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    This may come as a shock to you, because you don't seem to want to accept that you might be doing something wrong, but survival tactics ARE what your class was designed for.
    Yes, as shocking as rich, trying to justify present state of things by... present state of things when people are suggesting... altering present state of things. How hard is it to realise there are people who do not *want* to be reduced to camoderp idea and its close relatives from your playbook (the ones that actually have some situational merit). Those who wouldn't mind having a *choice* to sacrifice bloated dps that is already useless against classes that can nerf it via a huge array of options, assuming they are not played by "let's see what happens if I charge at him from 40m again, trial and error, yay". How hard is to realise you are not giving another "sliced bread" idea when you mention traps and other stuff any non-&&&&&&&& hunter knows about since Bree-lands? Ask Loremasters if they are terribly happy about similar "tactics" you could present to them as a way to improve overall experience. See how many tell you "dude, why do I *have* to spam umpteen skills and area "improvement" before actual fight to have a decent chance against some storebought warg?".

    How hard is to realise that your ideas are not exactly amazing when people state over and over again they are neither reliable nor working against opposition with actual brain and experience? Or against some creep classes that are *hint* not free-to-play mess? Any hint that this expertise you are mentioning again and again can be actually... too hard for to you to relay without falling into "Hey guys, I know this awesome skill, it's called PS".
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Jul 28 2012 at 04:14 PM.

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by therealwhizzy View Post
    just uses the absolute BEST case scenario to define the class... which invloves the BEST gear, gear swapping, best crit/dev.... and using techniques like hiding in camo/hiding on pillars or using range from 2nd floor keeps...
    I wanted to post some images of Bell Curve etc, but you already said enough. Suffice to say we are now suffering from fallout many warned about: that building a class around one feature, with some Yellow stuff that translates poorly to PvMP, is not a good idea. We have to remember it is being built this way for PvE, landscape PvE for many of those clients that are not going to complain about high numbers even though they are *just* high numbers.

    Still, try to imagine that how champion and say... hunter design respect that Bell Curve - with first one catering to both average and skilled and hunter one with funny accent on the rest (pewpew promotion) and with some niche for those fulfilling gear&skill&experience conditions as an excuse. Not sure what is offered to the average section, but it sure smells like some tasty meat around there.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealwhizzy View Post
    Pre Audacity or low Aud low rank a top geared hunter COULD destroy from range and was probably OP due to insane crits/devs and with farron could win a great deal of 1v1's melee jumped or not.... that was then this is now.. I got tired of gear swapping, packs full of consumables, bow chants focus pots, usless pvp sets... taking away a skill like low cut slow removal which makes a ton of sense for hunter and was a nice equalizer and giving it to another class. Sure seemed like an intentional attempt to screw the hunter class.... I cant help coming back and see what they do for RoR but seems like the same BS...
    Pre-Audacity was also pre-Orionised warg, so it is not as reliable comparison as it should, but... let's say it was fun. Now it is a contest whether you can kill two Faron hunters before first one returns from rez. Granted, it was always significantly easier for warg, but now? It is not right that only a handful of hunters force you to even look around. And that hand probably belongs to some drunk carpenter. If it makes things any better - Low Cut would be useless anyway with current bugged/not bugged fury pots. I guess they are not bugged - after recent blunders I can imagine it as tooltip error just as easily. How long Stangard deeds were "TBD", lol...

    Here's a suggestion Whizzy, save some TP and get a warg when RoR comes around, it plays almost like a hunter: damage burst, tracking, faster movement, slows, cc ^^
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Jul 28 2012 at 04:09 PM.

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    I wanted to post some images of Bell Curve etc, but you already said enough. Suffice to say we are now suffering from fallout many warned about: that building a class around one feature, with some Yellow stuff that translates poorly to PvMP, is not a good idea. We have to remember it is being built this way for PvE, landscape PvE for many of those clients that are not going to complain about high numbers even though they are *just* high numbers.

    Still, try to imagine that how champion and say... hunter design respect that Bell Curve - with first one catering to both average and skilled and hunter one with funny accent on the rest (pewpew promotion) and with some niche for those fulfilling gear&skill&experience conditions as an excuse. Not sure what is offered to the average section, but it sure smells like some tasty meat around there.



    Pre-Audacity was also pre-Orionised warg, so it is not as reliable comparison as it should, but... let's say it was fun. Now it is a contest whether you can kill two Faron hunters before first one returns from rez. Granted, it was always significantly easier for warg, but now? It is not right that only a handful of hunters force you to even look around. And that hand probably belongs to some drunk carpenter. If it makes things any better - Low Cut would be useless anyway with current bugged/not bugged fury pots. I guess they are not bugged - after recent blunders I can imagine it as tooltip error just as easily. How long Stangard deeds were "TBD", lol...

    Here's a suggestion Whizzy, save some TP and get a warg when RoR comes around, it plays almost like a hunter: damage burst, tracking, faster movement, slows, cc ^^
    If low cut worked as it should without bugs would be nice... the slow in the low cut also seemed to be way too easily resisted and for some reason im thinkn that was after finesse? Either way i was way happier playing hunter before Medium mitigation nerf back then i was running into battle not away from it.... For me hunter has been downhill from then on..

    I made a wargie to see when i still had my VIP the sad thing is I solo'd some poor hunter within 5 mins of making it...( a little piece of me died that day =( ) Now granted he wasnt that good based on how he handled me but relative to any other class it was a cake walk....

    anyhow cant wait to see if any new changes or skills come for ROI an I still am in shock after reading about a fellowship DF? thats just so off base for what the class needs Im speechless and whoevers idea that was should be embarrassed...

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    The Internetz
    Posts
    1,930
    Quote Originally Posted by therealwhizzy View Post

    I made a wargie to see when i still had my VIP the sad thing is I solo'd some poor hunter within 5 mins of making it...( a little piece of me died that day =( ) Now granted he wasnt that good based on how he handled me but relative to any other class it was a cake walk....

    anyhow cant wait to see if any new changes or skills come for ROI an I still am in shock after reading about a fellowship DF? thats just so off base for what the class needs Im speechless and whoevers idea that was should be embarrassed...
    i've had this experience too... i killed a r12 hunter solo on my r3 spider..... granted he prolly was not expecting me to be burrowed near GV while TR was freep.... but i did kill him none the less. i did have the element of supprise and i did eat my pet.... he was not very good and did not pop any consumables... but a r12 should know how to handle a lowbie spider.... ( i did engage him in melee and run though him a lot and use teqneiques that spiders had used on my hunter)


    as for fellowship DF.... i reported on that a while ago
    source:
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...e-and-Feedback

    POST #4

    Hawkwyng

    guy had 8 posts total





    i quote now:
    " Hunter - travel skills sooner - MORE travel locations - Desperate Flight should take the entire fellowship.

    Since I did not give nine suggestions, of the three I gave, the one I'd most love to see implemented is Desperate Flight including the entire fellowship. Let me bring all my friends to safety! "





    guy didnt even adhere to the format that they gave at the top of the page.

    but

    hello

    they took it.

    (boggles)
    Last edited by Lendas; Jul 28 2012 at 05:59 PM.

  23. #98
    To all creeps getting hit for 3k on a pen shot dev:
    L2P.

    There are corruptions that boost your mits at your trainer. Buy 3 of those and stop whining.

  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    To all creeps getting hit for 3k on a pen shot dev:
    L2P.

    There are corruptions that boost your mits at your trainer. Buy 3 of those and stop whining.
    Yeah. Spending 3 of 6 slots for mits. You loose dps meaning you could do less damage to your target before you dissapear/the fraid roflstomps you, meaning less inf for you. Might works for flayer builds. I prefer shadow.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by therealwhizzy View Post
    I made a wargie to see when i still had my VIP the sad thing is I solo'd some poor hunter within 5 mins of making it...( a little piece of me died that day =( ) Now granted he wasnt that good based on how he handled me but relative to any other class it was a cake walk.....
    Do I sense a little bit of exaggeration? Did they all wait for you in front of grams and were AFK?

 

 
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