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  1. #1
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    RIP PvMP Hunter: 2007-2012

    Like the elves... hunters have been fading for the past couple of Xpacs... our passing from the ettenmoors is soon to come. when RoR goes live, we will have to leave to the undyng lands of PVE... or die a sorry death in the new ettenmoors.


    here is why this fact is undeniable.

    first of all

    1

    Its happened again, folks. a suggestion on the hunter forums has once again been put to good use.... for the BA's.

    ettenmoors dev diary:

    Blackarrow

    NEW SKILL:

    Explosive Arrow

    The Blackarrow launches an explosive tipped arrow, doing damage to the target and all nearby foes.
    •Ranged attack that places a delayed explosive on the target. After 5s, the target explodes doing heavy damage to all enemies within 5m

    REVISED SKILLS:

    Set Trap
    •Places a trap on the ground that roots the target.



    Enhanced Skill: Set Trap
    •Root is less likely to break on damage and trapped targets take more incoming damage.



    Steadfast Barrage
    •Channeled attack that cannot be Blocked, Parried, or Evaded. Not usable while moving.



    Enhanced Skill: Steadfast Barrage
    •Usable while moving, but speed is reduced.



    Snare
    •Drops three traps that slow enemies.



    Enhanced Skill: Snare
    •Adds a 10% movement speed buff to the Blackarrow.


    Punctured Target
    •Ignores 30% of the target’s mitigations.



    Headshot
    •Ignores 30% of the target’s mitigations.



    Penetrating Arrows
    •Bow attacks now ignore 10% of the target’s mitigations.



    Enhanced Skill: Gash
    •Stuns target on hit for 6s.
    •Cooldown increased to 20s.



    Enhanced Skill: Headshot
    •50% Knockdown chance on hit.
    •100% Knockdown chance on crit.




    oh goody. may i draw attention to the new skill. explosive arrow.
    the explosive arrow was mentioned as a possible change to the near-useless current dazing arrow skill.

    Also: Headshot getting more KO chance.... oh goody. the whole knockdown idea was first mentioned on the hunter forums as a way to make mercy shot usefull again... looks like they get our cake there too.

    gash: yay a 20 sec cooldown 6 sec stun... so they get a stun almost as powerful as our daze (which is on a 1min - 50 sec cooldown btw) woop de do... something useful from hunter is again getting monkied off us... i suppose the pvp dev takes notes on whats works best for us.

    penetrating arrows: ignores 10% of mit..... perma breach finder chants anyone?

    Headshot and puncture target: 30% mits go away... weeee thats... what 40% mit avoidance? (thats 40% of your total mit number btw) so they will get MOAR DPS (possibly matching Hunter in sustained dps and scratching our heels in bust dps) with their already INCREDIBLE survival and 13k health + 10-15% cirt avoidance?
    FOR COMPARISON Hunter pen shot needs 3 focus, avoids 10% MIT BY DEFAULT and 18% traited... woooe. ill trade ya.

    enhanced snares: k so you get to kite your enimies being 50% faster than them and now officially having a mini "web the earth" effect so you can kite even more... while hunters cant kite their own grandma if she has slow immunity medication.

    enhanced steadfast barrage:
    weeeee something to stack on to skirmisher stance and put burgs and guards out of buisness and putting non-spamhealing wardens of any type into the trash with 0 B/P/E.
    oh and BTW we could use something like this to use against MT.... ill trade you HALF my useless skills for the OLD version of steadfast barrage!


    enhanced set trap: so you got our sturdy traps and spring loaded trap traits condensed into ONE TRAIT..... and you accuse us of trying to ask for a copy of your skimisher stance and wanting to copy "your playstyle".... but hunter has gotten nothing from BA's and BA's have gotten everything from Hunters and Burgs!

    NORMAL set trap, steadfast barrage, and snare: no traits required. this frees up more space for other traits... weeeee... an already powerful creep gets more upgrades that should by all means be given to hunters or an underpowered creep class like WL's or possibly RVRs...


    2


    MAY I ALSO DRAW ATTENTION TO:

    In this season, we’ll be distributing a total of 40% Incoming Healing Rating across the ranks of Battlefield Promotion

    this may have been overdue for creeps vs all other freep classes.... but it now makes our job as DPSers EVEN HARDER!

    3

    MORE GOOD NEWS! :

    Disappear/Topple
    •Cooldown reduced to 5 min.

    Enhanced Skill: Disappear
    •Reduces cooldown by 2 min.

    Sprint
    •Cooldown reduced to 5 min.

    Enhanced Skill: Sprint
    •Reduces cooldown by 2 min


    Warg dissaper and sprint will now be on 3 min cooldowns! allowing wargs to escape your arrows almost twice as often as before!
    (that moment when you think you can kill that warg that just killed your friend only to find out that he sprinted/hips just before you can get your induct off? yea i know that feeling. every time i think i can kill a warg.... they pop away. only to find that if faced with a "retreat" button when he comes back to crit 1k per hit with claws on me and i cant do a thing about it? yea i know that feeling.)

    Howl of Unnerving
    •Fear proc chance increased from 25% to 50%

    wargs fear howl will now fear TWICE as often! how useful for fearing your fellows while finishing you off! (to then hit sprint and jump in joy and LOL at your attempts to slow hit with barbed arrow!)

    Rabid Bite
    •Power cost debuff increased to 40%.
    Enhanced Skill: Rabid Bite
    •Increases power cost debuff by 35%.



    RABID BITE! now raises power costs by 75%! so i can no longer trait red.... ever.... cause grouped or not i will run out of power when my pen shot costs 500 power!

    Enhanced Skill: Rallying Howl
    •Stacking Fellowship Damage Buff. Each Stalker’s howl adds to the stack (cap of 5).

    oh joy. more warg packs! we need more wargs in the moors now dont we!

    •Reavers now gain bonus mitigation and damage based on their current health. •At full health, the Reaver has bonus mitigations. As his health is reduced his bonus mitigations are reduced but he starts gaining bonus damage.

    OH BOY! reavers (although they needed this in general VS other freeps) will now be able to better withstand our inital burst dps and then will be able to close the gap (with their awesome resilience slow immunity... which.... oh wait... remember our old moors set slow immunity? yea) AND then enjoy more dps and mow us down faster.


    4

    HUNTER SETS! woo! they must have improved those right?



    Hunter




    Predator

    2: +776 Critical Rating

    3: -30s Heart Seeker Power Cost

    4: +76 Agility

    5: Merciful Shot reduces incoming healing by 25% for 10s


    Entrapment

    2: +1747 Tactical Mitigation

    3: Needful Haste recovers Distracting Shot

    4: +76 Vitality

    5: Rain of Thorns Focus Cost removed


    Precision

    2: +776 Physical Mastery Rating

    3: Penetrating Shot ignores additional mitigation

    4: +76 Agility

    5: Precision Stance reduces the duration of Crowd Control by 25%.


    wait..... WHAT? theres almost NO DIFFRENCE? lets break it down.

    PREDATOR...
    same old sham.... typo adds to confusion. the change is ether -30% power cost or - 30sec cooldown. ether way it does little to solve our problem.

    IF -30% power cost.... useless
    IF -30sec cooldown... that would make red line cooldown 30sec and with heart of bard traited it would be 15 sec with 1 use of bards arrow... still not useful if you think about how many times you have 3 uninterrupted seconds to get off a HS and how little damage it really does normally. that time could be better spent on quick shots to get focus for your pen shot (sadly HS is useless as anything other than an opener... in which case 1 min CD is ok...) so this is also almost useless.

    ENTRAPMENT:
    same uesless 3 set bonus..... new almost equally useless 5 set.

    rain of thorns focus cost removed... ok... so you saved me 6 focus on a 3 min cooldown 6 second root... this is a 5 set bonus? this should be a 3 set.... its appaling. not worth working set wise to. another letdown.

    PRECISION:
    new 3 set bonus.... pen shot ignores more mit.... how much more? is it 12% more so we can match the default setting of BA puncture target?


    OVERALL hunters will probly be going 2/2/2 OR 3/3 but none of the set bonuses are made choosing a single set worthwhile...
    another letdown.



    Closing


    {1} I belive the time has come, my comrades... that hunter is finally and overwhelmingly OBSOLETE in the moors not only for SOLO play... but for group play as well. we die now ever faster, and with the changes to creeps... we wont be able to survive most encounters even when being supported by a healer or support class.

    (ever had that moment when 2 wargs jump you and your mini and guard friend cant do anything about it and you die anyway having done almost nothing in the way of helping them other than being a meaty distraction? yea.. i know the feeling.)

    {2} BAs have gotten all our skills and ideas and then tell us to L2P.... telling us that skirmisher stance is "unique" to "BA playstyle" and not for hunters.





    {3 } finally, the 2-3 new skills that we are getting in RoR will not save us from this fate. NOTHING SHORT OF A REVAMP will save us. even if the heavens align and we get something on the scale of MOVING TARGET and MOVING QUICK SHOT it will not be enough. a FULL REVAMP OF HUNTERS is requiered to make hunters viable in the moors after this xpac.

    IM NOT JUMPING THE GUN HERE
    when im saying hunter is dead. judging by the lack of a change in the apperence or organziation of hunter skills from the youtube sneak peek game website trial runs with hunters (note skills when dismouted. the char in the trials is lvl 75 and has no obvious changes to the apperence or... any obvious change evident. this probably means that there was no major change. our 2-3 new skills will not solve our problem as they would have to be incredibly powerful or something that we would have to be incredibly dependent on. in the probably scenario will be that we will get 2-3 new "split shots" and the like. best case we will have 2-3 useful skills. but i predict that even if these skills are great.... they cant save us. we need a revamp.


    IN SHORT
    OUR KITING PLAYSTYLE IS OUTDETED AND NONEXISTENT, OUR GEAR IS USELESS, OUR SKILLS ARE A JOKE, WE HAVE NO SURVIVAL,
    AND WE HAVE NO HOPE OF RESCUE









    .









    the last couple years have been hard on hunters... especially since audacity came into play... its the end now. its over. let go. hunter has, at last, quietly... with little compassion from anyone else... passed away from the moors. hunter... is... now... dead... dead in the moors. we have faded away and now the class of hunter has faded away from the moors... and we cross now on our steeds to forever dwell in the undyng PVE lands.


    the struggle is now over. let go. let go of hunter. may the class die in peace.

    RIP pvp hunters.
    2007-2012

    Last edited by Lendas; Jul 24 2012 at 05:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Fortunately, although the hunter class has finally met its demise, there is hope! A new game has announced its release date in a month! I do not really like the ranger class there after playing a hunter here as my only toon for 4yrs, but nearly all the classes are pretty much amazing and fairly balanced from what I saw in beta. Ok, it probably isnt as balanced as it looked at first, but at least they dont have a class that is totally dead to PvP.

    Personally the Thief with dual pistols and a shortbow sounds pretty fun.

    ~Kaz

  3. #3
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    wow! Amazing post - you really know the class.

    I'm just wondering why you think there will be no change to hunters PvP-wise in the upcoming addon - I mean Blackarrows are the mirror class of the hunter - so basically both of them should have the same abilities / capabilities. Just that there are no change-log entries right now doesn't mean there won't be any at a later point for the hunters when the Rohan launch comes closer.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.O.S.T View Post
    wow! Amazing post - you really know the class.

    I'm just wondering why you think there will be no change to hunters PvP-wise in the upcoming addon - I mean Blackarrows are the mirror class of the hunter - so basically both of them should have the same abilities / capabilities. Just that there are no change-log entries right now doesn't mean there won't be any at a later point for the hunters when the Rohan launch comes closer.
    Blackarrow is NOT a mirror of Hunter sadly. if they where... almost no one would play them.

    unfortunatly... blackarrow is only similar to hunter in the respect that it has skills that are similar to hunters (bow attacks from 40m away ) but the similarities end there. BAs have an entirly diffrent developer from the Hunter developer (who has gone missing for about a year)

    Blackarrows are BY FAR supirior to Hunters (1 well played fully suted BA can kill 3-4 run of the mill hunters easy) and have abilities that hunters do not posses (moving target: 30sec skill gives 75% ranged evasion chance) and their survival ( they have around 10k-12k health and a bunch of heals and heal possiblilities that sum up to about a 4.2k heal)
    and, nowadays, even playstlye, are diffrent.


    BAs have become more and more powerful over the years while Hunter has slipped back.




    as for the latter hunter changes, the devs said 2-3 new skills per class so they wont be giving one class way more than the others, and if they where planning a big hunter revamp.... the PR people would want it out ASAP to stop the horde of hunters leaving the game or not purcasing the xpac.

    the status quo has been Hunters getting weaker, BA's getting stronger. and now that all the other creep classes are moving up aswell.... while we stand still, and the fact that we already are very very weak in the ettenmoors...... this effectivly signals the end of hunters, even the good ones, from being sucessful.

    the statistics and variables all point to one thing: the end of Hunter PVMP

    Hunters will simply be chow that will get blown up instantly.

  5. #5
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    Is this a troll?

    I made a hunter simply to farm commendations, use 5 pieces of the faron set, spam penetrating shot and litarly ''faceroll'' to victory. With a captain I can easily take up 4+ creeps. Blood arrow does ~3k, Penetrating shot ~2k, critted ofcourse. Use improved focus, and spam, there you go.

    (My hunter got ''full gear'' about 2-3 weeks ago and now it's r8, not saying it's fast but than I don't play it 24/7 but it is INSANELY easy, go ask around on my server,evernight, you will notice how much hate I got for playing the hunter and facerolling on such an ''easymode'' class)
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2221901000007e45b/signature.png]Ongbyrz[/charsig]

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    Is this a troll?

    I made a hunter simply to farm commendations, use 5 pieces of the faron set, spam penetrating shot and litarly ''faceroll'' to victory. With a captain I can easily take up 4+ creeps. Blood arrow does ~3k, Penetrating shot ~2k, critted ofcourse. Use improved focus, and spam, there you go.

    (My hunter got ''full gear'' about 2-3 weeks ago and now it's r8, not saying it's fast but than I don't play it 24/7 but it is INSANELY easy, go ask around on my server,evernight, you will notice how much hate I got for playing the hunter and facerolling on such an ''easymode'' class)
    I'm so sorry we are not as ub3r 1337 as you and you should teach us to play our class. I've seen better trolls. If hunters are so faceroll, why don't you go solo in moors and see yourself getting killed in seconds. My record was getting killed by a r10 warg in a second (he dev all of his attacks) and I was well-geared at that time. Please enlighten me what to do when a warg jumps on you. If you survive, then the warg will just disappear. A BA will pop his I-WIN button (MT), a defiler wil drain your power and heal himself, a WL will outheal your dps. Also, if you ranked up that fast, then the only thing you must do is to sit in the middle of a 24 man raid.

    And the best part, this poster is the leader of a creep kin.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e21500000002f2f5/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    Is this a troll?

    I made a hunter simply to farm commendations, use 5 pieces of the faron set, spam penetrating shot and litarly ''faceroll'' to victory. With a captain I can easily take up 4+ creeps. Blood arrow does ~3k, Penetrating shot ~2k, critted ofcourse. Use improved focus, and spam, there you go.

    (My hunter got ''full gear'' about 2-3 weeks ago and now it's r8, not saying it's fast but than I don't play it 24/7 but it is INSANELY easy, go ask around on my server,evernight, you will notice how much hate I got for playing the hunter and facerolling on such an ''easymode'' class)
    is this a troll?

    i know you creeps like to eat hunters but there is no reason to come here and fight about it. its over. we'r dead. you win.

    i would also like to point out that i am talking about POST RoR PVMP not CURRENT PvMP (though we are in a pretty bad shape as we are)







    Hopever i would like to dispute your claims. if you can go against 4 creeps in a duo with capt than you must have gone up against a bad arrangement of low ranked / bad creeps.

    and by NO MEANS can a Hunter EVER be called E-Z mode. unless you have been ganking lowbie ranks i doubt you have gotten solo kills.


    however, you are right, Hunter is easy to play IF you are in a raid or in a standoff. just stand back and pew pew at anything that is in range. but try going outside of the "insta dead creep in 5 sec" zone and you will find yourself dead.



    REMINDER! we are talking about POST RoR

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibenwen View Post
    I'm so sorry we are not as ub3r 1337 as you and you should teach us to play our class. I've seen better trolls. If hunters are so faceroll, why don't you go solo in moors and see yourself getting killed in seconds. My record was getting killed by a r10 warg in a second (he dev all of his attacks) and I was well-geared at that time. Please enlighten me what to do when a warg jumps on you. If you survive, then the warg will just disappear. A BA will pop his I-WIN button (MT), a defiler wil drain your power and heal himself, a WL will outheal your dps. Also, if you ranked up that fast, then the only thing you must do is to sit in the middle of a 24 man raid.

    And the best part, this poster is the leader of a creep kin.
    I need to start playing my Warg again now that they can fire off multiple attacks in one second...

    If a stealth melee class jumps you, you probably die. Such is the life of the ranged class.

    Conversely, the Reaver that happens to wander within 40m of you when you're camoed in the middle of a trap probably doesn't last very long either. Such is the life of the non-stealth melee class that can't sprint in combat.

    Finally, I don't know the dude but it sounds like he earned some of his rank by running around with a Captain buddy. I'd say that he was pointing out that if soloing is that frustrating for you right now, team up with another class that can help.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibenwen View Post
    I'm so sorry we are not as ub3r 1337 as you and you should teach us to play our class. I've seen better trolls. If hunters are so faceroll, why don't you go solo in moors and see yourself getting killed in seconds. My record was getting killed by a r10 warg in a second (he dev all of his attacks) and I was well-geared at that time. Please enlighten me what to do when a warg jumps on you. If you survive, then the warg will just disappear. A BA will pop his I-WIN button (MT), a defiler wil drain your power and heal himself, a WL will outheal your dps. Also, if you ranked up that fast, then the only thing you must do is to sit in the middle of a 24 man raid.

    And the best part, this poster is the leader of a creep kin.
    - Never said I was uber, just that hunter is easy.
    - Yes I lead a creep tribe, so what?
    - This isn't a troll, I was asking if this thread was.
    - Why would I solo? I do solo, but frankly this is a MMO and I prefer to group
    - Dying in a second to a warg is nothing when you can destroy a warg in seconds yourself, my fastest combat analysis parse was 2.9s (4k 3k 3k)
    - If a warg jumps you, you're most certainly dead since we're a ranged class. If you jump the warg you should win unless the warg store brands/cd's to get away, not lose.
    - A ba can pop his I-win button once every 5min, and if lucky if he presses it to late just Heartseaker it, if not dazing blow and melee him.
    - If a defiler cast the flies, barbed arrow (with the barbed hinderance trait ofc) and kite it. With the faron set all I do is spam PS, BA. Can keep moving
    - I ranked up fast mainly by duo'ing tbh. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1z1s2nb&s=6 check my stats out, in no way raid stats and another friend of mine made a hunter aswell and he was the one that showed me this thread. (he has a r14 spider) http://oi45.tinypic.com/35zpg.jpg. Yes we play creeps.

    So what, hunters might die, hunters burst dmg is still one of the best in-game, if not the best.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2221901000007e45b/signature.png]Ongbyrz[/charsig]

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post

    REMINDER! we are talking about POST RoR
    How would you do that? Unless breaking NDA and spill information from the beta. Purely from patch notes you cannot say ''much'' hunter is a dps class and it all depends on how much the dmg will be scaled (If you remember MoM, hunters could almost destroy a creep with improved swiftbow)

    - Sorry for double post, when I made my prev post a few more had been made ^^
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2221901000007e45b/signature.png]Ongbyrz[/charsig]

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    (ever had that moment when 2 wargs jump you and your mini and guard friend cant do anything about it and you die anyway having done almost nothing in the way of helping them other than being a meaty distraction?
    Tell your guardian friend (who can shield-wall) and minstrel (who can spamheal) to stop AFKing in an open PvP zone.
    Shakuru scored a devastating hit on Retarius for 8,094 Scottish damage to morale.

  12. #12
    Oh not this again.

    You have no idea how will be the moors after RoR.
    Now, I'm still destroying creeps with 6k Blood Arrows, so I will not complain.

    Solo hunters are dead for a long time now. Like years. Not a scoop. But thats a general moors truth, with some exception for some OP freep classes like Minis or Champs. But hunters are a KB machine within a group, probably the best class for that.

    Goldtag or group. Hunter is not a viable solo class for PvMP. Not happy with that? You have 3 solutions.
    1) group/goldtag 2) make another class 3) bye, you shall be missed.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonide View Post
    Oh not this again.

    You have no idea how will be the moors after RoR.
    Now, I'm still destroying creeps with 6k Blood Arrows, so I will not complain.

    hmmmmm... 6k you say? is that a dev crit with focus potion and focus buff + burn hot up? i highly doubt you are hitting a creep with 6k unbuffed.... that would mean you can hit around 10k-13k on a normal mob and would have a pretty hugh spike in dmg implying that your pen shot would be critting around 3-4k on creep and 6-7k on normal mob therefore, having a red line overall possible crit chance at around 30-35% you would be phrasing high above 2k DPS solo and therefore be the highest DPS hunter in the game.... whats your morale again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonide View Post
    Solo hunters are dead for a long time now.
    aya they have. but even in a group a overall DPS oriented Hunter is very very soft. my point being that Hunter will , post RoR.... have to deal with high creep healing and vastly increased DPS capability along with Increased debuff capability while the outlook for Hunter is that we will be getting 3, most likely un-impressive skills that are not going to boost us forward like the creeps. overall we will be squishier in comparison to our current killability, do less damage to creeps in comparison to how much % wise we can knock off their morale, and have more and more potent skills that make us even more useless in group and overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonide View Post
    But hunters are a KB machine within a group, probably the best class for that.
    sorry, but when a hunter is getting hit and suffering from debuffs, interrupts from warg claws, and the like, Hunters are more like bombs. if you let a hunter focus up and hit burn hot.... we hit like bombs and then we get blown up and interrupted. we simply cannot keep dpsing effecivly while getting hit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Leonide View Post
    Goldtag or group. Hunter is not a viable solo class for PvMP. Not happy with that? You have 3 solutions.
    1) group/goldtag 2) make another class 3) bye, you shall be missed.
    Post RoR it will make hunters undesireable for gorups (getting killed all the time unless you have a cappy and a healer willing to spend a lot fo their time healing the guy) and goldtagging wont do any good when your the main target by the 40% of the creep population that is and will continue to be wargs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limmy View Post
    Tell your guardian friend (who can shield-wall) and minstrel (who can spamheal) to stop AFKing in an open PvP zone.
    any form of CC can break the guardians SW (and it takes a few seconds , 1-3 for a guard to react and get his shield on and SW. the minstrel will be healing at 75% strength due to that heal debuff, and a simple fear howl can effectivly fear any one of the 3 if not everyone. a simple scilence will suffice in stopping the mini for 2-4 sec until they can hit their immunity. with the increased DPS of creeps and reduced survival of hunter, there will be very little in the way short of a capt that can save a hunter being quickly killed by 1, not to even mention 2+ wargs.

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    - Never said I was uber, just that hunter is easy.
    im sorry, but easy in what sense? frankly its obvious to all creeps that hunter is the go-go target to kill for easy inf... do you deny this?



    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    - Dying in a second to a warg is nothing when you can destroy a warg in seconds yourself, my fastest combat analysis parse was 2.9s (4k 3k 3k)
    Congrats you got 3 dev crits in a row from stealth on a 1 aud warg. try that on a r10 warg or better yet, a r10 player warg. see how long it takes them to sprint into your face and feel the helplessness.

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    - If a warg jumps you, you're most certainly dead since we're a ranged class. If you jump the warg you should win unless the warg store brands/cd's to get away, not lose.
    and how often can a warg use CDs? every 3 min he has 2..... so that by all means a CD for every 1:30. think you can catch a warg with all his CD's down now? and when they do pop them... what will they do? perhaps.... come to eat you?


    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    - A ba can pop his I-win button once every 5min, and if lucky if he presses it to late just Heartseaker it, if not dazing blow and melee him.
    and what is dazing blow gets evaded or potted? (its a 50% evade vs melee ya know)
    and VS aud BA HS hits for 1k now.... VS a 10-12k uruk.... your dead on the spot and cant get away.

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    -
    - If a defiler cast the flies, barbed arrow (with the barbed hinderance trait ofc) and kite it. With the faron set all I do is spam PS, BA. Can keep moving
    kite it while what? the defiler debuffs you into oblivion? the vit debuff alone will knock off 1-2k of your health and the only thing you can do (if the def is solo that is) is run. but how often do you find a defiler solo? what happens when your in a fellowship and a warg hits you with a 75% increase in power cost? combined with flies your helpless.

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    -
    Yes we play creeps.

    So what, hunters might die, hunters burst dmg is still one of the best in-game, if not the best.
    Burst damage alone cannot win fights... oh and last time i checked.... the best DPS in the game came from a burg. burst DPS is nothing if you cant do a darn thing afterwards. if you can kill a full aud creep from stealth in less than 7 seconds consistenly then post your build and rotation here.

    oh and you do play creeps..... and have matching creep goggles.




    If you can strongly say that Hunter is in a good place now and will continue to be in a good place after RoR then go ahead and state it.


    for all my analysis.... Hunter in the post RoR moors will be in the worst position of any class in PVP in MMO history and, for all practical puropses... The hunter class will be effectivly gone from the moors. ether there will be no/very very few hunters in the moors or their effect on the battlefield will be minimal and their primary purpose will be tracking and bait/ warg food. i predict it wont be fun going.
    Last edited by Lendas; Jul 24 2012 at 09:10 PM.

  14. #14
    Just had to chime in. The only thing I find laughable or trollable about the OP is that he said the new gash is "almost as good" as dazing blow, which is funny because we're comparing a 6s STUN (no break on immediate damage) on a 20s cd to a 3s daze on a minute cd. So twice the duration and 1/3 the cd. Thanks for once again tossing more "suck on this, hunters" skills to the BA. Gone are the days of me actually skillfully using trees and melee slows/running through the player for LOS, etc. to cut down on MT time. Now they'll just stun me to get even more distance.

    Thanks turbine. Really appreciated. Here's the new skill you should give BAs:

    Bow Breaker:
    If target is a Hunter, disarms player's ranged weapon for 15s, then insta-kills target. Target will receive a large troll face laughing at them on their screen at end of 15s as well.

    Range: 500m, no line of sight needed.
    Cooldown: 2 mins

    Enhanced Bow Breaker reduces Cooldown to 30 seconds and makes skill an AoE to 10 targets.
    RIP Milkmefondly 2014

  15. #15

    Very well said Lendas!

    Very well said, i agree with you on most of it but ill wait until i see the diary to be 100% sure that the time of the hunter in PvP has ended. For all we know ZC has spent his time not posting on the hunter forums taking other devs opinions on the matter and playing a hunter and learning what the class needs for pvp and pve to be on par with current freep and creep classes. Or maybe we got a new dev and he has a different view of the hunter then past ones and he will get his swing at the hunter and maybe he could be good at it (or not).

    + 1 for the long and in detailed post lendas (you always make posts which i love to read ).

    I'm trying to have a good out look and maybe we will be blessed with a good outcome (even though the chances may be slim).
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  16. #16
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    Creep goggles please, I've switched to freep with RoI because creeps have been nerfed into the ground, Yes I'm an easymoder. And I switched to hunter.

    For the other part, I cannot state anything if hunters will be in a good place in RoR that'd be breaking NDA. (I do play BETA).

    For the other bit of your post... TL : DR yet. I'll reply tmoz.
    Last edited by 'Ongbyrz.; Jul 24 2012 at 10:20 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2221901000007e45b/signature.png]Ongbyrz[/charsig]

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Just had to chime in. The only thing I find laughable or trollable about the OP is that he said the new gash is "almost as good" as dazing blow, which is funny because we're comparing a 6s STUN (no break on immediate damage) on a 20s cd to a 3s daze on a minute cd. So twice the duration and 1/3 the cd. Thanks for once again tossing more "suck on this, hunters" skills to the BA. Gone are the days of me actually skillfully using trees and melee slows/running through the player for LOS, etc. to cut down on MT time. Now they'll just stun me to get even more distance.

    Dazing blow actually has its up side being a mez. it has an assured daze effect since dazes are not made "immune" after their wear off.

    so if i stun you, after the wear off you will have an immunity effect to stuns. (so if someone else stuns your target, they are immune)

    if i mez you you will be dazed for 1 second at least regardless of # of times you have been hit with a mez. (so if i stun you i can then mez you afterwards regardless for at least 1 second) i've had me and 3 of my hunter buddies chain mez a BA that jumped us. very useful sometimes.

    the BA stun is supirior none the less but just saying that dazing blow has some up side being a mez. id have the BA stun anyday. 20sec cooldown on a 3 sec stun it much more usefull

    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post

    Thanks turbine. Really appreciated. Here's the new skill you should give BAs:

    Bow Breaker:
    If target is a Hunter, disarms player's ranged weapon for 15s, then insta-kills target. Target will receive a large troll face laughing at them on their screen at end of 15s as well.

    Range: 500m, no line of sight needed.
    Cooldown: 2 mins

    Enhanced Bow Breaker reduces Cooldown to 30 seconds and makes skill an AoE to 10 targets.

    Coming in update 8. enjoy.




    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    Creep goggles please, I've switched to freep with RoI because creeps have been nerfed into the ground, Yes I'm an easymoder. And I switched to hunter.




    Quote Originally Posted by Legonist View Post

    I'm trying to have a good out look and maybe we will be blessed with a good outcome


    said in good humor after 4 years of hoping we have gotten nothing. i doubt it will change.
    Last edited by Lendas; Jul 24 2012 at 10:57 PM.

  18. #18
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    I think i never gave +rep before, you deserve it

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lestache View Post


    Conversely, the Reaver that happens to wander within 40m of you when you're camoed in the middle of a trap probably doesn't last very long either. Such is the life of the non-stealth melee class that can't sprint in combat.
    No he pots the trap and sprints off or unless you are out in the open and incredibly good at kiting and have store-brand in your ammo, he kicks the s**t out of you. The days when hunters could camo and 1 or 2 shot are long gone. Yes you can get some big pew pew off in faron from stealth but you better d*mn know how to play to finish it off. I'ts possible I have done it bu please dont make out its easy.

    Conversley if a reever hides behind a rock, pops a atore track, chartges and does his stuff the hunter is dead - and thats easy my friend.

    P.S. OP it won't let me +rep you again, says I need to spread it around more. otherwise +rep
    Last edited by Martigan; Jul 25 2012 at 06:38 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    - I ranked up fast mainly by duo'ing tbh.
    Yeh duo with a cappo/mincer/burg its a big difference. My survivability is awesome with a mincer who knows how to heal. The best target for this set-up is indeed solo campers and running in a zerg. With pocket support I can gimp about in front of a zerg or SB fight and do all sorts of mischief. But then isnt that true of every class freep and creep? We have a spider on our server runs with a pocket WL, is this how we should assess the effectiveness of spiders - no.

    On my server, in raids, hunters go down 1st and in seconds. In small group play hunters go down 1st in seconds. Solo unless I put in a hell of a lot of prep and get my skills and rotation pops just right, armour swapping, crafted traps, store pots, and get it all just right I die. This week I managed to 1v1 a couple of BAs and a couple of ranked wargs. It was not easy.

    What is EM is camo, joining the back end of a fight to finish off the creeps from distance, keep hugging, zerg hugging from the back and having a pocket helper. Its how many hunters have learnt to rank and survive which is a sad reflection of the current state of the class. So if this is how you ranked grats, but donet expect any cudos.
    Last edited by Martigan; Jul 25 2012 at 06:24 AM.

  21. #21
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    Is this a troll?

    I made a hunter simply to farm commendations, use 5 pieces of the faron set, spam penetrating shot and litarly ''faceroll'' to victory. With a captain I can easily take up 4+ creeps. Blood arrow does ~3k, Penetrating shot ~2k, critted ofcourse. Use improved focus, and spam, there you go.

    (My hunter got ''full gear'' about 2-3 weeks ago and now it's r8, not saying it's fast but than I don't play it 24/7 but it is INSANELY easy, go ask around on my server,evernight, you will notice how much hate I got for playing the hunter and facerolling on such an ''easymode'' class)
    Ahah. So you are regularly taking on 4+ creeps like yourself? I did some crazy things paired up with two Captains as well, we pulle doff some ridiculous things like 6 creeps at once because they could just not deal with the situation. And while Lendas is exaggerating here and obviously enraged you have to agree he has a point. He was talking about mere solo competence which is non existant on a hunter. Now until I saw the changes made to the hunter with RoR an dplayed them myself I can not commetn on balance. Yet it seems that the that the classes that already manage in the moors are getting handed some reall powerful tools. A good warg and BA is just not beatable and will probably be that way after RoR as well. Interestingly I still fight more successful against wargs than agains say reavers or defilers just because they tend to play in packs and have no idea what to do when soloing. Still they play like a pre-book 7 hunter.

    Also what I see especially in the BA class is that they merely get what we were asking for, for ages. Useful traps for starters. A real interrupt. A severe knockdown chance. Well and now a beefed up version of dazing blow. I just do not get it. Leaving aside things like steadfast barrage which might prove useful. And of yourse they can easily reuduce our DMG output by 75% by hitting moving target.

    As with wargs...they just do not know what a crazy opportunity they miss, when they are using Disappear to run away. It is a free win card. It allows another pounce and gives quite a bit OOC reg while the opponent is still in combat. Another knockdown! Now available every fight! It is just like our BH or even needful haste. You might think that this will put a stop to packs, but they will just be riding that train till the end because cowards will always be cowards and cowardice is extremely rewarded by Turbine!

    Now we have to see our changes. It is highly unlikely that the dominating freep classes will suddenly go down, but no doubt it stays as always: The moors is a melting pot and all the scum floats to the top.
    I am not holdign my breath, it was never really shown in the last two years that the Devs understood the needs of a ranged class in a PvP environment. They will probably just buff our useless CC or add skills to further stuff our full skill bars.
    Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
    Collector of superb posts.

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/27218000000000e32/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Just had to chime in. The only thing I find laughable or trollable about the OP is that he said the new gash is "almost as good" as dazing blow, which is funny because we're comparing a 6s STUN (no break on immediate damage) on a 20s cd to a 3s daze on a minute cd. So twice the duration and 1/3 the cd. Thanks for once again tossing more "suck on this, hunters" skills to the BA. Gone are the days of me actually skillfully using trees and melee slows/running through the player for LOS, etc. to cut down on MT time. Now they'll just stun me to get even more distance.

    Thanks turbine. Really appreciated. Here's the new skill you should give BAs:

    Bow Breaker:
    If target is a Hunter, disarms player's ranged weapon for 15s, then insta-kills target. Target will receive a large troll face laughing at them on their screen at end of 15s as well.

    Range: 500m, no line of sight needed.
    Cooldown: 2 mins

    Enhanced Bow Breaker reduces Cooldown to 30 seconds and makes skill an AoE to 10 targets.

    /Signed!

    It definitely serves to avoid pointless buttonmashing that would bring the same result anyway



    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    Self-flagellation
    *Hint* You might want to change something in there anytime soon... *hint*

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVanPort View Post

    As with wargs...they just do not know what a crazy opportunity they miss, when they are using Disappear to run away. It is a free win card. It allows another pounce and gives quite a bit OOC reg while the opponent is still in combat. Another knockdown!
    Just a bit of nitpicking - using Disappear does not switch warg to OOC, unless you are talking about situation when there is bigger fight going on so warg can wait - while hunter usually can't.



    Overall: if class is left on its own, there is one thing that will kill it far easier than any creep changes or weird skills. With uncapped stats and no word about changing general direction with any expansion or update, we are looking at constant increase in damage dealt across entire battlefield. At the same time standard morale pools tend to remain the same unless you are a class that *really* benefits from stacking Vit. If you still have a hard time figuring out what is this about, imagine expansions AFTER RoR, with even higher stat bonuses on gear and creepside scaled appropriately to match it. At some point Hunter will basically one-shot any other Hunter even with spammable skill. Many other classes get survivability options that balance that effect, either increasing effective Morale or effective avoidances somehow. What can hunters get if class is still on auto-pilot?

    - some healing skills scaled to level 85, 95, 105 etc - if at all - ok, let's just... avoid laughing too hard at current options
    - increase in avoidances based on main stat... immediately trolled by Finesse
    - damage increase as in "kill them before they kill you" - failing horrible when any opponent uses THEIR emergency skill or has a way to nerf your damage via CC, movement, debuffs, interrupts... oh, it's not like these are common /sarcasm
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Jul 25 2012 at 07:09 AM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    216
    Actually i feel like wargs will still be the best fights i'll have, even if shadow pounce + flayer will overwhelm me as usual unless i can get my agi to jump up more without the need of full lvl 85 raid gear (i was going around with 90% phy mastery)
    i gear for survivability and the lack of dps is what makes it hard for me to kill high rank defilers, wls and finish off reavers and flayer wargs (shadow are good fights even with high ranked full aud)

    with bas the turning point is and will always be mt (or tree kiting but that is situational), reavers will be sturdier

    i might as well point out that i don't use hope tokens, scrolls, damage perk and bow chants, only oils.... that could explain some of my problems ^^

    so if for lvl 85 we can gear decently for a balance of survivabilty and dps not all chances are lost imao....

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz. View Post
    Is this a troll?

    I made a hunter simply to farm commendations, use 5 pieces of the faron set, spam penetrating shot and litarly ''faceroll'' to victory. With a captain I can easily take up 4+ creeps. Blood arrow does ~3k, Penetrating shot ~2k, critted ofcourse. Use improved focus, and spam, there you go.

    (My hunter got ''full gear'' about 2-3 weeks ago and now it's r8, not saying it's fast but than I don't play it 24/7 but it is INSANELY easy, go ask around on my server,evernight, you will notice how much hate I got for playing the hunter and facerolling on such an ''easymode'' class)
    You are correct in everything you said here. However the OP is also correct. Hunter is an easy-mode overpowered class if played correctly in the moors. The problem is with no survival skills if you get multiple creeps solo just accept death. With resolute aim, focus pots full gear and audacity a good hunter can create a problem for even 2 creeps despite this. The OP is pointing out that:

    A) Our sets increase about 10 vitality and 10 agility a piece affecting us literally not at all.
    B) BA's knock down and ignore pretty much all of our mitigation as medium armor.
    C) Wargs, the bane of hunters now can HIPS and sprint 24/7 and do additional damage to what they already do in shadow.

    I have no problem soloing. I can beat pretty much anyone on any class except for a ranked BA with evade. Sometimes I can even kill 2 wargs solo. I'm confident out there and often laugh at people on these forums. However he does have a point. Our increases as a hunter are embarassing to the creep changes of 20-30k morale, more mits, crits, mastery, healing everything. I'm not saying this will make the Freep/Creep side un-balanced rather this will make hunters the new 4k mini/rk of the moors. Fish in a barrel.

    It is yet to be seen though. So until then none of us will know. Regardless hunters do need a survival skill.

  25. #25
    really? just ....... really?
    Did you ever try playing a LM?
    1. Hunter got medium armor LM got light armor 1-0 hunter
    2. Hunters can shoot while moving and hit 2-3k LM can use WF (OMG OP) which hits for 300-500 dmg 2-0 hunter
    3. Hunters got no CD on penetration shot which hits 2-3k LMs can spam WF which hits 300-500 3-0 hunter
    4. Hunters got alot of skills without induction LM got induction on all skills except WF which hits for 300-500 4-0 hunter
    5. Hunters can shoot 40m LM got 30m range except WF which hits for 300-500 5-0 hunter

    LMs got anti stun ill give you that 5-1 hunter

    Can you stop QQ untill LMs get a buff then maybe its your turn
    Regards RAFN!

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/222190000000610b1/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

 

 
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