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  1. #26
    Very nice.

    Whether freepside or creepside, too often I've seen the opposing force step aside when you get a group together to storm a keep. They would rather you flip it so it could be flipped back later. Now, hopefully there is a enough incentive to keep the battle going!

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Changes look interesting, will have to see how they work in practice, but nice to see the effort.

    My big concern would be faction balance at a given time. Not in terms of individual vs individual, but in terms of folks having incentive to flip to the winning side. The side with numbers will take all the outposts, giving their side a huge DPS buff. They will take the keeps, getting the commendation buff. What is the incentive for players on the short side of the current power balance to go out at all? Folks will flip, etc. Session play maybe somewhat, but probably not enough. Outnumbered buff isn't mentioned in diary. So basically if you come on and one or the other side has a 2-1 advantage in numbers, the lesser side seems sort of out of it?

    Also would be nice if there was more incentives for freeps to group, as it seems like too many are averse to it...

    And BTW, more than any changes, for petes sake PLEASE fix the lag, which seems worse in the Moors than almost anywhere else...

  3. #28
    If you aren't going to address this issue, expect the SAME people, and the SAME population and the SAME tactics as before. (and I'll still be playing game content, and ignore the moors).
    By eliminating the comms from taking keeps, they're eliminating a big reason people flipped to retake the keeps on the other side.

    I like a lot of these changes. I'm a bit worried high level creeps are gonna be OP, especially defilers with enhanced flies, but giving defilers and WLs more dps should make them easier to solo and small group with.

    I hope the need to keep all your control points encourages groups to break up raids too. I also hope it forces people to use all parts of the map and not just OC and TA like we currently see.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    By eliminating the comms from taking keeps, they're eliminating a big reason people flipped to retake the keeps on the other side...
    This is what I was thinking. Also, why would people capture and then flip and take away the bonuses they just earned instead of fighting to keep them? :/ Are you really suggesting that one side will flip the map, gain a bunch of advantages and then give them up just because there is no lockout timer? I'm not understanding the argument, that is aside from the fact that some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.
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  5. #30
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    Jun 2011
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    Sounds very good
    Now I'm waitin for those pics about the new legendary weapons
    Btw, we still miss an arena, allowing players from both sides to join 1v1, 3v3, 6v6 duels. That would be awesome and shouldn't be such a big problem with the lore aswell.
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  6. #31
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    Apr 2011
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    This...this looks promising Turbine! But as one poster has already said "The proof is in the pudding." If these changes are actually implemented, and implemented properly, then I think Ettenmoors will be a much better place for both Freeps and Creeps. The Comms prices was especially in need of a change, and I was overjoyed to see that they will be getting fixed.

    Kudos to you Turbine. You will earn my gratitudes if these changes are implemented, and implemented properly too!


    Quote Originally Posted by imrebroce View Post
    However, I really don't know where the idea that creeps are so underpowered comes from.
    Have you ever actually tried to kill a highly ranked BA without a full raid? Let's get real...should a main DPS class be able to withstand an ENTIRE RAID trying to kill them? I don't think so.
    Say whaaa?
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    891
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    First off, I am happy with the new creep skills and the lowering of prices for skills and traits. Kudos.
    However, the changes to the EM mechanics concerning keeps, OPs, relics and DoF seem absolutely terrible. It basically screams for groups to circle around the map, above and below ground, taking everthing they see while the opposite side does the same. You'll be lucky to even *see* the opposite side all night.
    Devs claim they want less PvE, but these changes make PvE more important and more vital than ever before, adding 40% damage, mitigations and extra audacity for controlling areas.
    I couldn't disagree with you more. With one fell swoop, they killed the EC/Stab and OC/WTAB shuffles. That right there is worth the price of admission for me.

    They also killed soloing with the new outpost buffs which is fine in a way because the moors was never really meant to be solo warfare.

    Basically freep and creep leaders with imagination and stratetgy are going to be running the moors, as it should be, imo.

  8. #33
    A very interesting read, however the audacity section leaves me a tad confused,
    For Freeps, the new gear grants 2 levels of Audacity instead of 1.
    For Creeps, ranks 2 through 6 of Audacity cost a total of 1125 Commendations (all Creeps start off with rank 1). Ranks 7 through 14 cost 6000 Commendations each.
    I log my warg in at RoI and have r1 audacity, I spend 36k comms and I get r7 audacity (the current cap). Now with this new season I need to buy 7 ranks of audacity? (Ranks 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14) which should cost 42k comms.

    I also started playing a rk who similarly started off with r1 audacity and after an investment of 35k comms got his armour set and r7 audacity. Now with this new season I need a new armour set, at reduced costs by trading up for 31.5k comms but this will give me +12 audacity, +2 per piece, so I will only have rank 13 audacity at the end (my base rank of 1 + 12 for my armour)?

    Seems slightly illogical unless I'm missing something.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    5,803
    PLEASE do not remove the capture the flag element of taking Lug/TR, this has actually been a wonderful feature that allows defenders to actually mobilize and defend a keep that is being "ninja" captured when one side simply shows up and races to the top. Many of the best fights of the last expansion have been over defending or capturing that flag after the Tyrant/CG are already dead. PLEASE please please reconsider the removal of this!

    Other feedback:

    1. I like seeing the former traited skills going baseline with added bonus for traiting. The way this was done seems fair, with the very strong bonuses still requireing a trait (like the CC/Slow immunity window on purge) and skills that just should have been baseline getting an added bonus from the trait (feast/clinging web).

    2. The healing rating being tied to battlefield promotions means low ranks are even more fodder by comparison than they are now.

    3. The 10% mastery bonus stacking buff is going to be too high.

    4. We NEED an area where these stacking buffs do not apply, as they pretty much predetermine who wins a 1v1/2v2 fight so that playstyle will be dramatically impacted. If you want to clear most of the NPCs out of the delving (and just leave the bosses), we could just have that be the solo/duo pvp area by default.

    5. Very interesting to see what level of damage and healing increase you end up applying.


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  10. #35
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    There is one thing I forgot to mention..I believe someone else brought it up as well.

    Did the cost of the skins get lowered at all? 7500 comms for a skin is a tad bit much, and seeing all new creeps running arond with the same skin is a little annoying.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  11. #36
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    Jun 2011
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    I have to say i like these changes but there is something missing or i didnt read well

    Still no critical and critical multipliers passives for creeps so i would have to stick to 16% on BA again...a dps class....

    Do something about it dear devs?cause with the new jewls and gear im sure the majority of all the freep classes will get atleast 4%-5% more critical chance leaving creeps behind again



    And if you check my post in my sig you will see that many of the changes on ba i had suggested em before :]
    Last edited by Tangaar; Jul 19 2012 at 12:50 PM.

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  12. #37
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    Nov 2010
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    I love it!!

    Enough said.

  13. #38
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    Dec 2007
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    Effectively, we got our new zone =)

    Before RoR goes live, can you cause a massive fire storm upon the Ettenmoors, so it can rise from the ashes?
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  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Gramsfoot
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    Positively surprised by the proposed changes - will give a final judgement when I see it live. At least it's a reason to continue playing.

    One thing: please reintroduce a 2-hour lockout again: switchers will abuse the infamy/renown gains by switching to the winning side, making it harder for the loosing side to pull things straight. Make your players choose a side for the day!
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  15. #40
    PLEASE do not remove the capture the flag element of taking Lug/TR, this has actually been a wonderful feature that allows defenders to actually mobilize and defend a keep that is being "ninja" captured when one side simply shows up and races to the top. Many of the best fights of the last expansion have been over defending or capturing that flag after the Tyrant/CG are already dead. PLEASE please please reconsider the removal of this!
    Having to kill all the bosses will make ninjaing a lot harder I think and it will take longer I think then currently with needing to just kill one boss than flip the flag.

    One thing I would like to see is distraction not allowed by freepside though.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  16. #41
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    I couldn't disagree with you more. With one fell swoop, they killed the EC/Stab and OC/WTAB shuffles. That right there is worth the price of admission for me.

    They also killed soloing with the new outpost buffs which is fine in a way because the moors was never really meant to be solo warfare.

    Basically freep and creep leaders with imagination and stratetgy are going to be running the moors, as it should be, imo.
    I would much rather have EC/Stab and OC/WTAB shuffles than taking keeps and barely seeing the other side all day. But who knows, it isn't live yet, they might yet reconsider those massive buffs.
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  17. #42

    Thumbs down

    Still too much pve required in terms of flipping keeps & OPs, plus the adventures into the Delving to maintain infamy/renown bonus.
    I like a majority of listed changes, i just wish you had the balls to remove OPs, close the DoF & make the map a bit smaller

    We'll be looking at a constant raid zerg scenario revolved around flipping OPs & Keeps.
    Last edited by Neen_Eldar; Jul 19 2012 at 01:07 PM.
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  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Finland
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    Finally a bunch of changes, looks interesting. But those values are gonna need some polishing for sure, I hope devs won't wait too long to adjust them if it looks like some balancing is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortinobrand View Post
    1 -- I mostly play my RK/Cappy/Mini, and I'm generally the healer. Why is there still no reward for rezzing people, or for healing people? Yes, it can be argued that keeping our side alive keeps us going, but if I choose to stand in the middle of a battlefield and heal/rez our side while being aggressively singled out by the creeps, should I not earn reward similar to a dps class? This is a significant oversight by the design team, and one that shakes my faith in their grasp of pvp play.
    Group up with the dps -> you get rewards for keeping them alive.
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  19. #44
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    Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    3. The 10% mastery bonus stacking buff is going to be too high.
    I think any mastery bonus is probably too high. Have incentives to take outposts be commendations/renown bonuses. But, IMHO, anything that tends to make the current winning side stronger is not a good thing for balance. If balance gets too bad, the side that is on the short end currently tends to log. This is positive feedback for that condition. As is the relic bonus for that matter...

    Many board games have balancing mechanisms that prevent the current leader from running away with the game to keep the game interesting for longer. Same theory applies to moors. You always want an incentive for both sides to come out and fight, regardless of the relative factional strengths. The dominant side will likely be able to get all the outposts and will thus be more dominant...
    Last edited by DelgonTheWise; Jul 19 2012 at 01:02 PM.

  20. #45
    I need a napkin cause I'm drooling with excitement.

    If you could, would you provide us a small section that is immune to keep buffs. We have a weekly 1v1 event called thunderdome and we don't want the keeps to interfere with that. It's a largely attended 1v1 event so it would need to be somewhat sizable, about the size of a keep foot print and agrro radius would be nice.
    Last edited by Armitas; Jul 19 2012 at 01:11 PM.
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  21. #46
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    Everything sounds like really good PvP gameplay mechanics!

    except Audacity seasons...

    That sounds like a strong discouragement mechanic to coming to the moors in the first place. Only vets will have a chance to hit/survive.

    I'm also wondering if there's anything for 3-6man "commando" groups to do? Or shall the zerg still be the one and only way to play? Most folks' computers can't practically handle raid + raid + npcs + probably another raid on screen all at once, not to mention the very limited style of fun that scenario makes available.
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  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    One thing I would like to see is distraction not allowed by freepside though.
    As part of these changes Distraction has been disabled in the Moors.

    If you're interested in testing out and seeing the changes in action and you are in beta, everything in this diary is live on Bullroarer.

  23. #48
    changes are looking nice only at the legendary weps part im missing a 2h axe?? is this rascism against dwarves or will this be added?
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  24. #49
    Bring on them PvE groups... they shall return...

    Well, not really liking the addition of PvE more... while OPs/etc do provide a significant (too significant imo, 10% per OP is way too much) boost to PvP potential, I believe that we will see the resurgence of the PvE groups running around, flipping OPs/etc and running before they ever have to fight anything besides NPCs.

    Also, the introduction of the delving as a "run away" point is a bad idea. I foresee solos/small groups running into EC/OC just to teleport into the delving and run away. Also, this system will probably be used by the above PvE groups to roam around the map undetected until they can PvE more.

    And with no solid mention of a healing/dps boost for creepside and only dps skills given to wl/defiler, I don't see the healing/dps imbalance going away. In fact, it might get worse based on what all new shiny stuff the freeps get with this xpac.

    Overall, no change balance wise (if we're lucky) and much more PvE. But that's just my opinion after reading this without seeing hard numbers or solid changes.

    P.S. Please... more skills... 1 isn't enough when freeps will be getting 2-3 new ones and 4-5 "improved" ones more than likely...

    P.P.S. More tact mit for freeps is a TERRIBLE idea... 60%+ is already way too high... my bleeds (which are our "main" source of dps) that are supposed to hit for 120+ each tick... hit for 50-60 while LM dots (and basically every other freep dot) has a higher damage rating (base and they hit harder since we don't have 60% tact mit) and last longer... (curse you 1 min dots...)

    P.P.P.S. I really hope that you meant "reduced" here: "Remorseless Strike Pip Cost Removed"...
    Last edited by Samus1111111; Jul 19 2012 at 01:16 PM.
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  25. #50
    Nice long Dev Diary, good job.

    Only one question from me. Will there be any good reason to participate in that "new" PvMP - reward wise?
    Will we get anything, apart of slighty tweaked sets and cosmetic LI?
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