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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashi View Post
    I really don't understand what they mean by "Ignores 50% of mitigations --AND-- does 10% of the targets max health "

    Surely, if the skill does 10% of the targets max morale as damage, then it is ignoring mitigations totally.
    it is my understanding that the damage displayed on the tooltip of the skill will be 10% of the target's morale, then this damage will go through mitigations (ingoring 50% of it) then through audacity... this won't be a big problem from my hunter, skills like claws and maul hit numbers close to the ones this skill would have
    heavies and wardens will die faster which ain't a bad thing

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Organized 1v1/spars will not be achievable with the buffs they're putting in place which is a good thing. I can't wait for these changes to be implemented -- players will be forced to grp up and learn to play their class.
    Val
    I really should say something more polite because you deserve that, but that statement just deserves a /facepalm

    And remember the majority of 1v1s are not organised they happen naturally and that statement saying about learning to play class. I pve raid T2,do instances, pvp raid and pvp small group. By far the most challenging thing I do in LOTRO is "unorganised" 1v1 (not solo zerging which is EM) For that I really had to learn my class. But with xpansion if I am on the wrong side that part of LOTRO is nerfed. PVP is not group content, there is a choice. Fair enough if you dont want to solo, plenty of folks do solo pvp and pve and that playstyle shouldnt be nerfed. Thanks.

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martigan View Post
    I really should say something more polite because you deserve that, but that statement just deserves a /facepalm

    And remember the majority of 1v1s are not organised they happen naturally and that statement saying about learning to play class. I pve raid T2,do instances, pvp raid and pvp small group. By far the most challenging thing I do in LOTRO is "unorganised" 1v1 (not solo zerging which is EM) For that I really had to learn my class. But with xpansion if I am on the wrong side that part of LOTRO is nerfed. PVP is not group content, there is a choice. Fair enough if you dont want to solo, plenty of folks do solo pvp and pve and that playstyle shouldnt be nerfed. Thanks.
    On my server 1v1s are "organized" and they're not shy about it. Call will go out for 1v1s at GTA or CM which kills any chance of building and sustaining a dedicated raid force.....Moors is a Raid Zone btw. Ganking is a totally different subject and with the new changes coming 1v1 will be impossible because not only are the classes not balanced for 1v1 play the new buff mechanics enhance class imbalance. Why 1v1 when you know you're going to lose? With all the wargs running around with the new changes if your caught alone your dead.....you'll have to grp up to have any chance of survival. Great changes and exaclty what need to happen to get the moors back on track....STAY THE COURSE JW!!!!

    Val
    Last edited by Eaglehaven; Jul 25 2012 at 06:01 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
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  4. #454
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    This is the most thoughtful engagement of the Moors in five years. Should help open up the range of tactics and liven things up considerably.

    Now about a mounted PvMP zone........
    Founder, Leader - www.SonsOfNumenor.com

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Why 1v1 when you know you're going to lose?
    The same thing was said after RoI with the uncapping of stats and our temp. borked Mits.

    I doubt it will stop those who enjoy a challenge.

    Besides, any decent 1v1'er knows how to gimp themselves to make it fair.
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  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhedry View Post
    Besides, any decent 1v1'er knows how to gimp themselves to make it fair.
    Now that comment deserves a /facepalm ;(

    How will you determine which skills not to use when the damage buff is 20, 30, or 40%. Seriously?????

    Organized 1v1 in ROR will be nothing more than players taking turns killing each other -- I sincerly hope GMs start kicking players to the curb for abusing game mechanics in this fashion.

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Now that comment deserves a /facepalm ;(

    How will you determine which skills not to use when the damage buff is 20, 30, or 40%. Seriously?????

    Organized 1v1 in ROR will be nothing more than players taking turns killing each other -- I sincerly hope GMs start kicking players to the curb for abusing game mechanics in this fashion.

    Val
    The only thing that deserves a /facepalm is your whining.

    Carry on.
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  8. #458
    Deviled_Egg is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
    Turbine, Inc.
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    Hunter Set Bonus Change

    Hello! We're changing two of the Hunter Set bonuses.

    Predator 5-Piece Bonus: Merciful Shot reduces incoming healing by 50% for 10s
    Precision 5-Piece Bonus: Precision Stance Focus generation increased to 1 Focus every 4 seconds.

  9. #459
    I've no idea whether this has been touched upon, as I've not read through the responses. However, regarding the remarked incoming healing difference between freeps and creeps;

    When looking at Creep healing versus Freep healing, the thing that stood out to us the most was that Freep healing could be augmented by Incoming Healing Rating. This was something which Creeps didn’t have access to. In this season, we’ll be distributing a total of 40% Incoming Healing Rating across the ranks of Battlefield Promotion.
    This feels like a glaring over-representation to me, as no freep I know of (naturally this is limited to my server, which is small) actually packs incoming healing in the moors intentionally. The one case in which incoming healing rating is packed is from burg and champ LIs; all the other available sources of incoming healing don't tend to be used because they come at the expense of other things the freep wants for their toon to be individually viable. Giving it passively attached to rank for creeps, and to such a large degree, is imo going a little too far down an exponential-improvement rank progression for creeps instead of the (imo more reasonable) linear model. That is to say; if it can be assumed that each battlefield promotion stat adds to a multiplier to how effective the creep's toon is; then the progression of rank (battlefield promotions) is an exponential progression for how effective the toon is. Adding another (incredibly important) stat to this is compounding what I see as a bad model for progression.

    And, I suspect the magnitude is too much as well. If you want to make it available to creeps to the degree stated, it needs to be on class traits.

    The truth of the imbalance between the healing numbers of each side has nothing to do with incoming healing anyway (like I said, basically freeps don't use it in my experience on a lower pop server), it has everything to do with the removal of caps for stats and how high the primary stat values rocketed to give offense and outgoing healing. Balance this instead.

    The proposed implementation is going to continue that exponential progression I mentioned and all the while continue to ignore real rank-by-rank progression for freeps, inevitably leaving us stuck at whatever creep-rank equivalent freepside pve-obtained gear permits across the board, and progressing limited to pve-progression (outside of armour sets, which includes LIs, jewelry etc)... which was a model we were supposed to leave behind with each of the last few updates to the moors. Why is it so complicated to look at the moors and implement real pvp progression for freepside that doesn't impact pve progression and which doesn't follow such borked models?
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  10. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by DEViled_Egg View Post
    Hello! We're changing two of the Hunter Set bonuses.

    Predator 5-Piece Bonus: Merciful Shot reduces incoming healing by 50% for 10s
    Precision 5-Piece Bonus: Precision Stance Focus generation increased to 1 Focus every 4 seconds.
    The Precision 5-Piece Bonus is a start in the right direction, maybe 3seconds would be more useful than anything. The Predator 5-Piece still won't make me use Merciful Shot. If you switched the incoming healing to -25% and put it on Blood Arrow, I'd use it.

    For an analogy (even if people think it's a bad one) Reavers have always used Devastating Strike for one reason: The (hopefully) "large" crit it does on a freep under 50% morale. On a 30s CD traited (advanced skill, can't remember?) it's a great skill for a reaver with the added -50% incoming healing debuff, however the debuff wasn't the main reason they used DS, the damage was. The debuff was just an extra buff to even it up.

    Merciful Shot is a lot to hunters as Devastating Strike is to reavers, however it does barely more damage to creeps and costs 6 focus unless you specifically trait for it. "Saving up" focus to use merciful shot once the creep is under 50% morale is silly, because if the creep is being healed in the first place (thus the need to use merciful shot for the inc healing debuff), our focus generating shots do not do as much DPS as our focus burn ing shots. We'll never get the chance to use Merciful Shot, and when we do get that chance, we'll be out of focus anyways.

    My two cents, apologies if it's a little discombobulated.

  11. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Grusk View Post
    I've no idea whether this has been touched upon, as I've not read through the responses. However, regarding the remarked incoming healing difference between freeps and creeps;



    This feels like a glaring over-representation to me, as no freep I know of (naturally this is limited to my server, which is small) actually packs incoming healing in the moors intentionally. The one case in which incoming healing rating is packed is from burg and champ LIs; all the other available sources of incoming healing don't tend to be used because they come at the expense of other things the freep wants for their toon to be individually viable. Giving it passively attached to rank for creeps, and to such a large degree, is imo going a little too far down an exponential-improvement rank progression for creeps instead of the (imo more reasonable) linear model. That is to say; if it can be assumed that each battlefield promotion stat adds to a multiplier to how effective the creep's toon is; then the progression of rank (battlefield promotions) is an exponential progression for how effective the toon is. Adding another (incredibly important) stat to this is compounding what I see as a bad model for progression.

    And, I suspect the magnitude is too much as well. If you want to make it available to creeps to the degree stated, it needs to be on class traits.

    The truth of the imbalance between the healing numbers of each side has nothing to do with incoming healing anyway (like I said, basically freeps don't use it in my experience on a lower pop server), it has everything to do with the removal of caps for stats and how high the primary stat values rocketed to give offense and outgoing healing. Balance this instead.

    The proposed implementation is going to continue that exponential progression I mentioned and all the while continue to ignore real rank-by-rank progression for freeps, inevitably leaving us stuck at whatever creep-rank equivalent freepside pve-obtained gear permits across the board, and progressing limited to pve-progression (outside of armour sets, which includes LIs, jewelry etc)... which was a model we were supposed to leave behind with each of the last few updates to the moors. Why is it so complicated to look at the moors and implement real pvp progression for freepside that doesn't impact pve progression and which doesn't follow such borked models?
    This^^^^^

    These changes are all well and good, and may work to liven up Moors play on many servers, but does little to solve the imbalance problems out there. How can creepside ever be balanced to freepside with the incredibly varied gear options freeps can bring in from PvE land. The multiple Class armour-sets for the moors was a great (if expensive and grindy) addition to PvP. How hard would it be to create some Yellow quality Moors armour sets available for regular gold, purple armour sets available for say 500 comms a piece, and a MASSIVE host of jewelry options of varying quality available on a similar breakdown (yellow items for gold, purple for some comms, teals for a lot of comms). Then a simple mechanic that cut the stats on PvE items when in the Moors could be implemented to ensure they were semi-viable for people starting out, but far from the best option.

    Obviously this is a bit of a half baked idea, but if nearly all the best items for freepside were created intended for PvP, balance would be so much easier, and PvP players wouldn't have to grind PvE for gear (and in the case of burgs, PvE players wouldn't have to grind PvP gear).
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  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEViled_Egg View Post
    Hello! We're changing two of the Hunter Set bonuses.

    Predator 5-Piece Bonus: Merciful Shot reduces incoming healing by 50% for 10s
    Precision 5-Piece Bonus: Precision Stance Focus generation increased to 1 Focus every 4 seconds.
    The Precision Stance bonus is now better in my opinion, combined with its 3-set bonus.
    The Predator Bonus is still lacking, since Incoming Healing is useless against solo creeps, and I doubt it will be the most favoured set by the majority of Hunters.

    Still, nice to see you noticed our annoyance at the set bonuses and changed them.
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  13. #463
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    The Moor's are asymetrical and always will be. The Creep experience is not, and can never be more than a side-show to the PvE Freep side. It is a taste, nothing more, of being "bad." Likewise, Turbine was not allowed to have "freeps vs. freeps." That was a point made many years ago and is a matter of explicit instructions or contractual agreement with Middle-earth Enterprises.

    The ebb and flow of balance won't stop, and the devs have said as much. This will always be an act of overcoming imbalance.

    *shrug*
    Founder, Leader - www.SonsOfNumenor.com

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEViled_Egg View Post
    Hello! We're changing two of the Hunter Set bonuses.

    Predator 5-Piece Bonus: Merciful Shot reduces incoming healing by 50% for 10s
    Precision 5-Piece Bonus: Precision Stance Focus generation increased to 1 Focus every 4 seconds.
    Good! Now please also take a look at RK lightning set bonuses...
    [B]What We Do In Life, Echoes in Eternity - [/B][URL]http://archive.lotrocommunity.eu/monsterplay-player-vs-player-combat-624/422337-ultimate-evernight-thread-evernight-strikes-back.html[/URL][B]
    Blitzz Krieg R13 RK - Talgasn R11 Reaver -Talgroth R10 BA Evernight![/B]

  15. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulubeast View Post
    For an analogy (even if people think it's a bad one) Reavers have always used Devastating Strike for one reason: The (hopefully) "large" crit it does on a freep under 50% morale. On a 30s CD traited (advanced skill, can't remember?) it's a great skill for a reaver with the added -50% incoming healing debuff, however the debuff wasn't the main reason they used DS, the damage was. The debuff was just an extra buff to even it up.
    I have to disagree. What you say was the case before the debuff was added to the skill. I could make an argument for the Dev Strike debuff being one of the most important skills creep side has. When a freep is getting heals, or capable of self healing I am spamming my dev strike when the freep is near 50% just for the debuff. I used to use it as a finisher, now I use it to enable a kill. While not so important solo unless fighting a mini, cappy or warden employing self heals, in RvR it makes a huge difference.

    I think you, and other hunters are underestimating the usefulness of a 40m -50% inc healing debuff. Seeing as creep morale pools will be ( on average) hitting ~20k and the buff to incoming healing creeps are getting, I would argue that having that set bonus is ideal for RvR fighting.
    Creeps: Fissure R-12
    Freeps: Presdas R-9, Arcteus R9, Dainsleif-1 R4

  16. #466
    woah all these changes are so amazing, this will be like a new begining!

    /irony
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  17. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEViled_Egg View Post
    Hello! We're changing two of the Hunter Set bonuses.

    Predator 5-Piece Bonus: Merciful Shot reduces incoming healing by 50% for 10s
    Precision 5-Piece Bonus: Precision Stance Focus generation increased to 1 Focus every 4 seconds.
    WOW.
    Es grüßt General HauptmannMilithion - Held der Ettenöden

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  18. #468
    I'd like to know if they are doing/going to do serious testing with live (copied) creep characters versus geared and traited freep characters, or are they going to have one laggy "chase the devs" night, ignore feedback or say that it's too late to change anything, and call it done?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620501000004cc5f/signature.png]Qillyu[/charsig]

  19. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by apb8808 View Post
    I have to disagree. What you say was the case before the debuff was added to the skill. I could make an argument for the Dev Strike debuff being one of the most important skills creep side has. When a freep is getting heals, or capable of self healing I am spamming my dev strike when the freep is near 50% just for the debuff. I used to use it as a finisher, now I use it to enable a kill. While not so important solo unless fighting a mini, cappy or warden employing self heals, in RvR it makes a huge difference.

    I think you, and other hunters are underestimating the usefulness of a 40m -50% inc healing debuff. Seeing as creep morale pools will be ( on average) hitting ~20k and the buff to incoming healing creeps are getting, I would argue that having that set bonus is ideal for RvR fighting.
    I agree about the usefulness of dev strike debuff. Reavers are one of the most fearsome classes against minstrels now (obviously not 1v1 but in a bigger fight). However, I'm not sure that a 50% incoming healing debuff has quite as much utility for freeps. By the time a creep is below 50% morale, it's pretty close to game over for them. Creep burst healing is pretty terrible so if they have been allowed to get that low, defiler hots aren't going to keep them up anyway. Compare this to a mini's various burst healing capabilities, a warden's huge leech, and a champion's self heals. That said, I think it's a reasonable set bonus, just not as useful as dev strike.

    **edit** This could allow hunters to really put a hurting on a tough 1v1 class like defilers though.
    Freeps @ Dwarrowdelf: r10 Mini
    Creeps @ Dwarrowdelf: r11 Reaver, r10 Warg, r9 Defiler, r9 Spider, r8 WL, r8 BA

  20. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEViled_Egg View Post
    Hello! We're changing two of the Hunter Set bonuses.

    Predator 5-Piece Bonus: Merciful Shot reduces incoming healing by 50% for 10s
    Precision 5-Piece Bonus: Precision Stance Focus generation increased to 1 Focus every 4 seconds.
    nice to have some improvement on red set bonus, now i'd like to try it out

    at first i was all "wow" on the change to precision like other hunters then i wanted to quantify it.... over 20 seconds we actually get 4 Focus (+1 if u count the starting tick) with the set bonus we'd get 5 focus in the same amount of time (always add 1 if u count the starting tick); that's only 1 more focus every 20 seconds, so 3 more focus every minute that translates into 1 more penshot per minute....... errr :-(

  21. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Now that comment deserves a /facepalm ;(

    How will you determine which skills not to use when the damage buff is 20, 30, or 40%. Seriously?????

    Organized 1v1 in ROR will be nothing more than players taking turns killing each other -- I sincerly hope GMs start kicking players to the curb for abusing game mechanics in this fashion.

    Val
    So 1v1ing with a 20-40% buff is clearly farming and abusing mechanics...but doing like 12v2 with 20-40% buffs is the correct way to play and is intended as the way people are supposed to play. Glad we have that clarified, I was worried tons of people on my server were playing the game incorrectly. Now lets go ban all those mechanic abusing easymode 1v1ers! I guess if I could faceroll aoes and get tons of renown/infamy I wouldn't want to do solo play either...oh wait, thats boring and takes no skill whatsoever never mind.
    Last edited by Omez; Jul 28 2012 at 12:59 PM.
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  22. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilladh View Post
    nice to have some improvement on red set bonus, now i'd like to try it out

    at first i was all "wow" on the change to precision like other hunters then i wanted to quantify it.... over 20 seconds we actually get 4 Focus (+1 if u count the starting tick) with the set bonus we'd get 5 focus in the same amount of time (always add 1 if u count the starting tick); that's only 1 more focus every 20 seconds, so 3 more focus every minute that translates into 1 more penshot per minute....... errr :-(
    correct, but you have to see it in combination with other things, with crits and so on. it give you more and more the ability to run without resulute aim through mores and win your fights. you are getting 3 focus more. that means you could save 1-2 IQS, and that means you cant be interrupped on getting thoes 3 focus points.
    Last edited by Milithion; Jul 28 2012 at 01:28 PM.
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  23. #473

    Unhappy About guardian's moor suit->Sovereign’s Blade??? A block response?

    I Don't understand why there's a block response here, this suit is for OP guard
    Sovereign’s Blade

    2: +776 Critical Rating

    3: Brutal Assault has a 25% chance to grant a Block Response

    4: +76 Vitality

    5: Stagger no longer requires facing or critical hit

  24. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    ....

    Organized 1v1 in ROR will be nothing more than players taking turns killing each other -- I sincerly hope GMs start kicking players to the curb for abusing game mechanics in this fashion. ....
    I doubt GMs will do anything. On my server one person has created dozens of F2P accounts and reavers and systematically slaughters dozens of reavers (under that same person's control) en mass on his freep in public view. If the GMs won't do anything about that, I doubt they will do anything about 1V1s.

    I do agree with your sentiments though Eaglehaven and +1 rep to your post.
    Last edited by mr_toad; Jul 28 2012 at 07:35 PM.
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  25. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEViled_Egg View Post
    Hello! We're changing two of the Hunter Set bonuses.

    Predator 5-Piece Bonus: Merciful Shot reduces incoming healing by 50% for 10s
    Precision 5-Piece Bonus: Precision Stance Focus generation increased to 1 Focus every 4 seconds.
    Still not good enough to get into 5 deep in any set. And the Trapper set bonus is still terrible.
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