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  1. #401
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    I would just like to point out that the Ettenmoors/PVMP is most certainly as big a part of this game as PVE is by just looking at the views this topic has received after four days Who can say PVMP doesn't generate as much interest as PVE now ?
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  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    If the devs had inteneded to promote 1v1 play then they wouldn't of plopped a rez circle on top of Candy Mountain --- the message is quite clear and I couldn't be happier -- NICE JOB JW STAY THE COURSE!!!!!!

    Although I wouldn't be opposed to an arena type area later down the road however; if it's true PVP small grp play your looking for then that area should come with a cost --- no commendation or infamy/renown gain from kills so the area can't be abused.

    EQ2 tired an arena pvp area back during the DOF expansion and it fell on its face after about 2 weeks. Classes we're not balanced for 1v1 or small grp play which will be no different than LOTRO -- waste of time and effort IMO.

    Val
    The isolation of outpost/keep/relic buffs would also include the infamy gain from owning keeps.

    If you don't think the Moors should accomodate various different playstyles then you're the reason why I've lost faith in the community here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerek_of_horus View Post
    Your response is a troll. Burgs no longer get +50% evade from TnG or FF. Yes, it says this, but you don't get that much evade bonus. I've watched my combat log, I know. I get maybe +20%, MAYBE.

    BA Evade is FAR more effective
    At least you have knives out to counter wargs. Try playing a BA against a skillfully played tactical freep and I'm quite sure you'll amend your view on MT vs TnG.
    Last edited by MaroonDragoon; Jul 22 2012 at 09:17 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042060100001fcf60/signature.png]Moshiach[/charsig]
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  3. #403
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    I also think they should do something to accomodate 1v1ers. I am not a big 1v1er myself, but I enjoy a good one every now and then to escape from the zerginess on both sides. 1v1s are also pretty large and popular on some servers if I am not mistaken.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon View Post
    The isolation of outpost/keep/relic buffs would also include the infamy gain from owning keeps.

    If you don't think the Moors should accomodate various different playstyles then you're the reason why I've lost faith in the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Selebrimbor View Post
    I also think they should do something to accomodate 1v1ers. I am not a big 1v1er myself, but I enjoy a good one every now and then to escape from the zerginess on both sides. 1v1s are also pretty large and popular on some servers if I am not mistaken.
    Moors is a "Raid" zone and always has been. The message they've sent to the 1v1 community with the ROR revamp is "Loud and Clear". Back in the early days of the Ettenmoors 1v1 play, two boxing, and six boxing was not tolerated and in some cases earned you time off -- I would really like to see those rules brought back and enforced with the release of ROR. That said, I think Mr. Barry's opening commnents in his Dev Diary are pretty clear:

    "Any change we make is going to shake the boat, we understand this. At this point, however, we feel the current state of The Ettenmoors dictates that we need to shake the boat. We don't think The Ettenmoors is anywhere near its potential as far as player count and usage. It's radically off from where we feel it can be and the usage is small enough that we feel comfortable really shaking it up and risk breaking what's there in order to hopefully achieve a much higher potential. We have a plan that is bold and will fundamentally shift things in The Ettenmmoors to be both what we want, and what we've gathered the playerbase wants."

    Losing "small portions" of the Moors community is an acceptable risk based on the current state of affairs. Either get onboard the new "Moors Train" or get run over by it --- either way 1v1 is an endangered species!

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwbarry View Post
    Concerning Trolls/Rangers

    Costs have been reduced to 500 commendations.
    They're allowed to use the waypoints that go into and out of the Delving, and the back entrances to the Keeps.
    They are allowed to flip outposts.
    Deaths in the session have been reduced to 1.
    They are allowed to group now.
    They're set to have Audacity 13.
    They're now immune to power drain.
    We're still looking at the power and effectiveness of them and potentially making functionality tweaks.
    Try to make sure this quest actually works for both sides

    I rarely ever see a Troll but Rangers are frequent

  6. #406
    Q: If the Delving is going to be the subway system (aka Delving Subway = DS) to and from Keeps/OPs and both freeps and creeps can use it, does that mean that the Delving is the spot to be for the ghanker squads?

    In the old old days both Creeps and Freeps entered the Delving together and there used to be Great Fights there. The different bosses held some good loots for Freeps and the Creeps did their best to hold off their victories. Over time the Delving changed and its currently a ghost-town .

    So, are all the bosses gone? Is it just empty hallways? Do creeps and freeps meet inside or are we in different layers so we can pass safely from one zone to another?


    Q: Creep maps. Are these obsolete? If there's no more PVE then I presume that means no more grind for maps? (oh PLEASE say YES). If the maps are gone does the Delving Subway (DS) replace them? Will we have a need for overland travel?
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by PiercingClaws View Post
    Try to make sure this quest actually works for both sides

    I rarely ever see a Troll but Rangers are frequent
    iirc Currently Ranger sessions are available if the Freeps have the outnumbered buff. On Nimrodel, it happens fairly often. It used to be that you could grab the quest when the outnumbered buff was up and hold on to it and use it at a later time. Not sure if that's still possible.

    I have never seen a Troll session and someone said it was broken creepside.

    I wonder if Goldie (freep bear for TR) and Mawzik (sp) (the creep warg for Lugz) are gone too? Would be nice to get them some promotion inside a keep defense!
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  8. #408
    Some other posters have put up suggestions on Time Out Delay on Side Switch.

    There used to be a time out delay for going Freeside 1 or 2 hours (iirc). That got removed not too long ago.

    After it was removed, on our server we had the constant flow of Two-Siders switching up to flip Keeps and OPs to farm comms. Sign on one side: flip all the keeps; switch to the other: flip all the keeps. Switch Alts and repeat. Lots of comms get earned PDQ.

    Not that much different from farming NPCs. Currently the freeps can farm the Keep NPCs, trolls, Lts, Tyrants without much difficulty but flipping the map earns everyone a lot more comms.

    It does sort of leave those who don't switch sides, as a "farmable" objects, and leads to "I'm leaving now." This has been noted in other posts.

    The worst part for me is the two-boxers that play freep and creep at the same time. Years ago, folks using this technique farmed themselves for renown/infamy. Now I see it as mostly a technique to "spy" or actually interfer with the raid in progress. Eg. exiting a room when the tryant is pulled. pulling things out of sequence. [Im not talking about bad pulls here, but when the tyrant resets 8 times....]

    I don't think there's any way to prevent any of this. Stopping the side-switching might keep some players on one side longer. But I like to play the "underdog side" (currently creepside) and if the freeps get to be the underdogs well I'd like to go help them out by switching sides.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by SabrielofLorien View Post
    Some other posters have put up suggestions on Time Out Delay on Side Switch.

    There used to be a time out delay for going Freeside 1 or 2 hours (iirc). That got removed not too long ago.

    After it was removed, on our server we had the constant flow of Two-Siders switching up to flip Keeps and OPs to farm comms. Sign on one side: flip all the keeps; switch to the other: flip all the keeps. Switch Alts and repeat. Lots of comms get earned PDQ.

    Not that much different from farming NPCs. Currently the freeps can farm the Keep NPCs, trolls, Lts, Tyrants without much difficulty but flipping the map earns everyone a lot more comms.

    It does sort of leave those who don't switch sides, as a "farmable" objects, and leads to "I'm leaving now." This has been noted in other posts.

    The worst part for me is the two-boxers that play freep and creep at the same time. Years ago, folks using this technique farmed themselves for renown/infamy. Now I see it as mostly a technique to "spy" or actually interfer with the raid in progress. Eg. exiting a room when the tryant is pulled. pulling things out of sequence. [Im not talking about bad pulls here, but when the tyrant resets 8 times....]

    I don't think there's any way to prevent any of this. Stopping the side-switching might keep some players on one side longer. But I like to play the "underdog side" (currently creepside) and if the freeps get to be the underdogs well I'd like to go help them out by switching sides.
    I'd like to see 24hr lockout for both sides.....that'll stop side flippin and create dedicated raiders on both sides....of course that can always be countered by a second account which is a win win for Turbine.

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  10. #410
    Another channeled skill in PvMP for defilers? Thanks devs...thanks. OH and the rest of the defiler changes sound equally amazing. I mean who wouldn't want a heal at the END of a HoT? I mean it's not like we spam it to keep someone up because we have no burst healing outside of a 30sec cd heal and therefore the only time it ends is at the end of a fight. Nope, not like that at all. Of course you'll still have to trait it for the Incoming Healing buff. Good to know I have to waste another trait slot on something that should already be a part of the skill, *cough* Efflorescence *cough*. Oh well now my sick Plague gourds can crit for 400s more often on light-classes. WL changes also sound pretty meh but at least they're not completely pointless so thanks for that at least. Also I'm totally for making a designated 1v1 area somewhere.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/132130100000da84c/signature.png]Grishmez[/charsig]

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daec View Post
    I only stated, if you think its a joke, you're a joke. A 50% evade certainly isn't a joke, your statement of a max of 20% is utterly dumb.
    I agree, his comment claiming 20% evade is ridiculous!

    IMO, Its much lower than that!

  12. #412
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    Quest should have commendations

    I think it is a very bad idea to remove commendation rewards from quests.

    I play on Silverlode. It seems to be a medium population server.

    However, outside of US peak time, there are very few people to PvP. By very few, I mean like 1 or 2 often.

    There is no way to get a reasonable number of commendations outside peak hours without questing.

    I understand that commendations are a gating mechanism to limit people from PvP.

    But, I think this a bit harsh on players from around the world, who have no other alternative.

  13. #413
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    I'd just like to say a few things to the Devs and to the people posting replies to this thread:


    To the Devs: Thankyou for showing more interest in fixing what was poorly implemented in the first place. I think you guys should at last be proud of yourselves. These new Ettenmoors updates have made an old Raid Leader once again excited about the Ettenmoors, and even more so about the Delving of Fror. Thankyou so much. Oh, and one question: Will the Creeps still be needing their maps, or are you guys going to remove the maps except for grams for them? We have these new gateway things in camps and outposts, so that question did pop into my mind. Once again, thanks. These changes look awesome!

    ============================== =============================
    ============================== =============================


    To the Posters: While a time-limit for switching sides isn't needed for keep flipping anyone because of the nerfed quest award, I do agree that it will become a problem switching sides to suddenly arm the other side with more numbers for fights. After-all, we still have some "ooh let me join the winning side" players still around. So I'd like to say I agree under those terms about the time thing being placed back in.

  14. #414
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    The real balance

    There is always endless freep/creep discussions on balance.

    I would ask if the Developers have any comment on the melee/ranged imbalance.

    It seems to me, that in any large group fight, ranged (and healing too) have a huge advantage over melee classes.

    I know some melee classes have a lot of mitigation and healing.

    But, also some don't. They become cannon fodder.

    Currently, ranged classes have the most spike damage, the most debilitating slows, the longest range crowd control and the most ability to inflict repeated short term crowd control (lockdown).

    Also,some of them have the ability to heal many times their morale if attacked.
    Last edited by Ashi; Jul 22 2012 at 02:13 PM.

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Moors is a "Raid" zone and always has been. The message they've sent to the 1v1 community with the ROR revamp is "Loud and Clear". Back in the early days of the Ettenmoors 1v1 play, two boxing, and six boxing was not tolerated and in some cases earned you time off -- I would really like to see those rules brought back and enforced with the release of ROR. That said, I think Mr. Barry's opening commnents in his Dev Diary are pretty clear:

    "Any change we make is going to shake the boat, we understand this. At this point, however, we feel the current state of The Ettenmoors dictates that we need to shake the boat. We don't think The Ettenmoors is anywhere near its potential as far as player count and usage. It's radically off from where we feel it can be and the usage is small enough that we feel comfortable really shaking it up and risk breaking what's there in order to hopefully achieve a much higher potential. We have a plan that is bold and will fundamentally shift things in The Ettenmmoors to be both what we want, and what we've gathered the playerbase wants."

    Losing "small portions" of the Moors community is an acceptable risk based on the current state of affairs. Either get onboard the new "Moors Train" or get run over by it --- either way 1v1 is an endangered species!

    Val
    No it is not. The majority of fights are still small scale battles ranging from two combatants two a few people zerging another few. You are confusing 1vs1 with spars, too. And even those never were a bannable offense nor should they be. They are the King's Game in the moors and the outcome reflect the way you are able to play your class.

    If you do not encounter 1vs1 in the moors on a regular basis then you are either zerging most of the time or just active in raids.

    That quoted part from the DevDiary really shows that the Dev does not really play in the Moors at all. If he had then it would be clear to him that while more usage of the moors is preferable it is just not manageable serverwise. Even in the good old times where lag was mainly inflicted by your own PC-capabilities there was severe lag when more than 50 people joined a fight. We had a total of a hundred players in the Moors fighting and caused the server to fold. That was in 2008. Combine that numbers with the current state of the moors and you might crash the server but will also force a dozen warleaders to a relog due to the bug that was never fixed. You will not be able to fight either because skills will have a huge delay. While the moors might be designed to accomodate large battles, the servers are not. And if this Dev has not figured this out yet or is not doing anything about it he does not understand how he can achieve "what the playerbase wants".
    He is also enhancing zerging, which is, again, not what the playerbase wants. The average player does not care about taking outposts, he just wants to aquire points not objectives. He does not group either. That is why we largely have red maps and times where any action is only in the triangle of death (TR>GV>EC)

    Barrys comments sound to me like: "Yeah we can really muck things up with these changes, but we do not care because there are so few people in the Moors that it does not matter whether these few leave."
    And this is just not true. Dedicated Moors players usually are made up of PvE-veterans as well. You need good gear to join the moors, this gear can not yet be aquired by PvP-means. If I take the top Freeps 50 active on my server, then I see a bunch of people that are into this game heavily to achieve something in the Moors. These are kin and raid leaders, too, active and loud people in the community. Leading figures if you do not mind me saying so. You let them leave and it is the game that is loosing.

    What the playerbase really wants is fun in the moors. That can be interpreted in many different ways, some people like zerging, raiding, soloing. You want to please the most you will try to achieve balance or to get as close as you can. Oh people will complain anyway, true enough. Yet you will not put them off completely either. Now they changed the system once and we got audacity and the store. Now look how much fun we are having now. What a laugh. We all like a good laugh.
    Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
    Collector of superb posts.

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  16. #416
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    Its funny that some people still accept developers dictating play styles.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashi View Post
    I think it is a very bad idea to remove commendation rewards from quests.

    I play on Silverlode. It seems to be a medium population server.

    However, outside of US peak time, there are very few people to PvP. By very few, I mean like 1 or 2 often.

    There is no way to get a reasonable number of commendations outside peak hours without questing.

    I understand that commendations are a gating mechanism to limit people from PvP.

    But, I think this a bit harsh on players from around the world, who have no other alternative.
    I agree here too, but perhaps I am in a rare situation. I have a lower-end rig (though its pretty hot for a 2 year old netbook ), and everything works fine until I 1) 12-man raid, or 2) RvR in the moors. Now my end-game goal is to PvP, of course, but to do so, I pretty much solo, duo and run in small groups, though my time is overwhelmingly spent solo. As a result, I roam the map completing quests and looking for solo/duo/small group creeps. Being a solo hunter, I wouldn't say I'm in an OP situation out there, especially w/o full audacity, which is *really* tough to grind as compared to the flying numbers RvRers enjoy. I like the pace of it, don't get me wrong, but without the *small* boost to commendations (it's really not that great, but any amount greater than 0 adds up eventually) turn-ins grant, reaching full Aud is a *long* grind. Perhaps that's WAI, and I'm just SOL, but it's back against the wall for hunters as it is IMO, and without Aud, I'm not sure one is likely to be competitive. Now, hunter-specific issues aside (we'll see what happens with our dev diary, but damn, those set bonuses are really bad; I'd like to reiterate what's been said regarding the fact that as the overwhelming number of moors hunters seem to go 2/2/2 piecemeal, the proof is in the puddin'. Why would that not set off any alarm bells?), I'm looking forward to the new changes. If RoR promotes a greater amount of solo/small grouping around the map, then this issue is moot. I'd rather get comms from kills, no question.

    Perhaps I represent a small contingency of players rocking less-than-desirable rigs in the moors, and of course there's a clear solution to that, though somewhat unjustifiable to the others sharing my budget. I've been with the game (and hunters) since fall 2007, so I'm pretty committed to the game, though some may say due to this issue, not enough. Just my humble opinion. Whatever happens, I'm happy the devs put some effort here. See you in game.

    /Maha
    Last edited by Mahalikii; Jul 22 2012 at 03:11 PM.
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  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by DorianFalkenmond View Post
    Its funny that some people still accept developers dictating play styles.
    I can not award you with further rep.
    Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
    Collector of superb posts.

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  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandybardard View Post
    I would just like to point out that the Ettenmoors/PVMP is most certainly as big a part of this game as PVE is by just looking at the views this topic has received after four days Who can say PVMP doesn't generate as much interest as PVE now ?
    But even dedicated PvE'rs such as myself are going to read up on changes to the game. I want to be sure nothing has been added that'll make me go anywhere near the Moors.
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  20. #420
    I noticed this in the RoR FAQ

    Can I fight from my existing in-game horse?

    No, you will get a new steed, called a War-steed specifically built for combat. It’s larger than the current in-game mounts and better able to handle the demands of combat.

    Can I use my War-steed at all outside of Rohan?

    Yes, you can ride your War-steed anywhere you can currently ride horses in LOTRO but remember that fighting from horseback is only possible in the open plains of Rohan.
    This uber horse is going on the Ettenmoors? The freeps may not be able to do mounted combat from the horse, but the horse presumably is more uber than current horses. e.g. knocking them off their horse might be a tad more difficult.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  21. #421
    Remove cap to coms. That is all.

  22. #422
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    Overal it sounds good but I'll ask again, is there any news on creeps crit chance? It should of got buffed back in Isengard times or was it Galtrev when freeps was able to get 25% crit.
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  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selebrimbor View Post
    I also think they should do something to accomodate 1v1ers. I am not a big 1v1er myself, but I enjoy a good one every now and then to escape from the zerginess on both sides. 1v1s are also pretty large and popular on some servers if I am not mistaken.
    For me there is a difference between a 1v1 and a spar. I agree it would be nice to have a place for spars, a pit, an arena etc. But a spar is a pre-arranged fight, its out in the open, there are sometimes agree parameters on skills etc, they dont tend to include landscape features, no-one else will step in (hopefully)

    A 1v1 is out in the landscape. It involves a whole different set of tactics and unknown factors. There is an element of hunting your prey or surviving a gank, stealth, surprise, randomness, cooldowns, gear, store-brands, consumables all play their part. Then there is the landscape itself, terrain features, trees, rocks, drop-offs, water, keeps, all of it. Also you just dont know who is going to step in against you or for you. We all, feep and creep, have those particular difficult classes to fight against, so half the fun is mastering your tactics etc. There is nothing like the thrill of a true 1v1.

    What worries me with this new system is that there are extra buffs that one side will get that will hamper the balance of a 1v1 and spars.
    Last edited by Martigan; Jul 23 2012 at 07:48 AM.

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    . Back in the early days of the Ettenmoors 1v1 play, two boxing, and six boxing was not tolerated and in some cases earned you time off -- I would really like to see those rules brought back and enforced with the release of ROR. That said, I think Mr. Barry's opening commnents in his Dev Diary are pretty clear:
    you are talking about spars not 1v1. A 1v1 has never been banned in the moors and is a ridiculous concept. OFC there are times when a moors fight involves only 2 people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    --- either way 1v1 is an endangered species!

    Val
    why shouldnt people be allowed to also spar in the moors. Freeps can spar. Creeps can spar. Why shouldnt freeps and creeps spar together?

    The moors has zergs, raids, small group fights, 1v1 and spar. Why would anyone want to discourage a particular playstyle? it makes no sense.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martigan View Post
    The moors has zergs, raids, small group fights, 1v1 and spar. Why would anyone want to discourage a particular playstyle? it makes no sense.
    Narrow-mindedness.
    Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
    Collector of superb posts.

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