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  1. #76
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    Still the best class suggestion to this date IMO.

  2. #77
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    Thumbs up

    Excellent suggestion! However...

    the sorceress needs to wear an evil thong.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainothon View Post
    Excellent suggestion! However...

    the sorceress needs to wear an evil thong.
    You know it´s fantasy if female armor covers less skin the stronger it gets :-D

    On topic:
    Great suggestion, I like, would definitly play this Class

  4. #79
    Awesome idea! ...would like to see it done by Turbine.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkadia_Hellsing View Post
    Awesome idea! ...would like to see it done by Turbine.
    ^ same..


    Would even pay for it.

  6. #81
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    Great idea, and I hope Turbine will take it under consideration. It would round up the creep classes very nicely.

    Really appreciate the amount of work you have put into it. :-)

  7. #82
    First off, very well done. One of the best idea threads I have seen, ever.
    I really do hope that turbine does see this and does make a substantial note of it.
    It is very clear that this is something that the LOTRO community has wanted and needed for some time. I really hope they listen to the wants and the needs of the people.

    As you said, most of the animations, skins, sounds, ect is already done, so it wouldn't be starting from scratch. Sure it would still be a lot of work to get everything runnign and balanced...but heck, turbine is getting paid for it so why not.

    Again, you have presented your ideas in a very professional and clear way.
    I hope turbine gets you to head up the team to design this for the next major update/expansion.
    Cheers mate.

  8. #83
    that was awesome!!

    /signed

  9. #84
    Excellent suggestion, a human class has always been missing from creep side along with a goblin class.

    Some notes from having looked over the skills, the heals you propose are badly overpowered compared to other creepside heals and this would basicly make defilers utterly redundant since not only would a sorcerer have more heals they would also have much more dps and better debuffs.

    The base R0 stats seem very high given it is a light armor tactical class, especially morale pool is too high. The reflect damage skill seems entirely out of place, I don't think any sorcerers have that ability. A number of skills don't have induction times, am I to understand all your dps will be instant cast skills with high range? I know that is where a lot of freep skills are, but it seems really unbalanced compared to other creep classes.

    I see you have fear on what appears to all skills, certainly something like terrifying wound should be a wound. You also have resistance on a dps skill that is fire based - I believe that would just go through fire mitigation not through resistance since it doesn't apply any effect.

    I really like the idea, but I do think a bit more diverse skills instead of so many pure dps skills would help and the removal of heals is a necessity to make it realistic. I like the idea of a silence skill and the summoning of spirits - that is very flavourful.

  10. #85
    Okay, that seriously looks like a fantastic class. I hope turbine takes this seriously.

    One issue though, with the Morgul Weaponry trait at r3. One more very very powerful power drain for creepside is not needed. To put it into context, most 75 LMs have 7k power in the moors. A 5% power drain with 5 ticks over 10s is 350 power per tick, draining over 1700 power total. That's a HUGE power drain for a 50% chance to apply on every melee hit. Freeps have enough problems with stacking flies, this would just annihilate power pools within seconds if used cleverly.

  11. #86
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    Thank you all for the kind words.
    But please keep in mind this is only my view on how I would like a new class to be implemented. I'm not expecting everyone to agree with it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Traur View Post
    Some notes from having looked over the skills, the heals you propose are badly overpowered compared to other creepside heals and this would basicly make defilers utterly redundant since not only would a sorcerer have more heals they would also have much more dps and better debuffs.

    The base R0 stats seem very high given it is a light armor tactical class, especially morale pool is too high.
    I think you may be confused because these are Lv85 numbers, not Lv75. The heal (only 1 for others btw) is much, much lower than a Defiler's. The base Morale is mediocre, not high-end like a WL, but not the lowest either. It's roughly the same as a Defiler's.


    The reflect damage skill seems entirely out of place, I don't think any sorcerers have that ability.
    You're quite right, NPC Sorcerers get the buff on them from an outside source (being Hillmen), but I kind of liked the idea for implementation (and it seems so did Turbine, looking at the new Weaver skill). I don't mind if you'd rather not see it here, it isn't essential for the class to work. Just a little playskill. Maybe I can turn it into a CC immunity skill like the LM's SoPR.


    A number of skills don't have induction times, am I to understand all your dps will be instant cast skills with high range?
    No, ofc not.
    It works a bit like RK skills and BA stances: the skills with the longer ranges have induction times while the instant cast ones have their range reduced. The few exceptions to this are the ones which do little or no damage, such as debuffs and the 2 basic damage skills.
    Also, don't forget that this is not something being released, this is something I've written.
    When given this sort of idea to be implemented, most MMO devs would spend weeks balancing all the various skills against other skills and classes. Knowing Turbine, they would probably spend 15 minutes on it, but they'd still have to do some balancing at any rate, I don't claim this is perfect.


    I see you have fear on what appears to all skills, certainly something like terrifying wound should be a wound. You also have resistance on a dps skill that is fire based - I believe that would just go through fire mitigation not through resistance since it doesn't apply any effect.
    I'm afraid you are mistaken about this. I shall attempt to explain as best I can.
    Firstly, let's get Terrifying Wound out of the way. It's an existing skill used by many NPCs ranging from Angmarim to Cargul to Merrevail. It is always a fear effect. Terrifying Wound is just the name of it, indicating an inflicted wound "infused" with shadow, or magic, or fear, or whatever Turbine calls it. Somehow it magically turns it into a Fear effect. Maybe eeeeviiil magic in your blood stream? Scary stuff eh.

    As for your second point, Resistance indeed applies to all Creep skills which have an effect, as you rightly pointed out. Be it debuff, DoT, CC, and even if the effect is not removable, it can always be resisted.
    However, when a Creep's Tactical Skill applies damage without an effect, it must still pass through a Resistance rating since it cannot be blocked, parried or evaded. Because, as I'm sure you will agree, there must be a chance for every character to avoid incoming damage.
    Just like Creeps have their B/P/E but also their Resistances against Song, Cry, Tactical and Physical for all the various types of Freep skills, so do Freeps have a defence against Tactical-damage-but-without-effect skills from Creepside. This type of resistance on skill damage isn't a new concept, it actually already exists on Weaver and Warleader skills. Although the Weaver's one is an odd case since it counts as a Ranged skill but can be resisted as well as B/P/E'd.
    Back to the matter at hand though; since Freep Classes only have Resistance against 4 different effects, I had to choose one of those four. Disease Resistance attacks are in the Defiler's territory and neither Poison nor Fear seem to apply to that Fire skill. So I went for Wound, since that is usually the effect of people burning (hence some of the Blackarrow/Drake/Goblin Wounds).

    But when not resisted, such a skill's damage would indeed pass through Tactical Mitigation, as you say. It just has to pass through Resistance first.


    I really like the idea, but I do think a bit more diverse skills instead of so many pure dps skills would help and the removal of heals is a necessity to make it realistic. I like the idea of a silence skill and the summoning of spirits - that is very flavourful.
    Cheers, but I gave them just as many DPS skills as a BA, I think that's fair for a DPS class. As for heals, there is only 1 heal for others, and it's just as potent as the Warg heal.
    The other one is a self-heal only and is a channeled skill with less healing than even Inner Flame. It's basically a Morale-regen skill for when you're in a safe place. It can't be used during active combat since it would get the Sorcerer killed most of the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Okay, that seriously looks like a fantastic class. I hope turbine takes this seriously.

    One issue though, with the Morgul Weaponry trait at r3. One more very very powerful power drain for creepside is not needed. To put it into context, most 75 LMs have 7k power in the moors. A 5% power drain with 5 ticks over 10s is 350 power per tick, draining over 1700 power total. That's a HUGE power drain for a 50% chance to apply on every melee hit. Freeps have enough problems with stacking flies, this would just annihilate power pools within seconds if used cleverly.
    Read again, it isn't for every melee hit. Only for every melee skill. There are 3 Melee skills total, each with a decent timed cooldown on them. If it was on every melee hit, I would agree that 50% chance of draining 25% Max. Power would be very overpowered.
    But now that I read through it again, I feel that I don't like the random factor of this skill. Sometimes you won't get any drains, but if your luck is extremely bad, you'll get drained 75% of your power. Now for most classes 75% Power doesn't matter, but for say a Burglar that could be disastrous. And looking from the other side, not getting a single power drain on that pesky RK or Warden would be very frustrating. Maybe I should leave out the randomness and just make it a certain power drain per Melee skill for 15% or so. That way the maximum drain (if someone wants to use all their Melee skills just for draining, but I doubt it) would only be 45%. 45% would just mean chugging half a Power pot for the Burglar, and every other class has power restoring skills to regain that power. Then again, that might make the trait redundant since every class can counter it and it would only be effective if creeps started stacking Sorcerers. I'll have a think about it.

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    I think you may be confused because these are Lv85 numbers, not Lv75. The heal (only 1 for others btw) is much, much lower than a Defiler's. The base Morale is mediocre, not high-end like a WL, but not the lowest either. It's roughly the same as a Defiler's.

    I envisioned this class to be the tactical counterpart to the BA - top of the creep dps table but with limited survivability to match. The tick rate of 1 second is very high compared to defiler, a defiler would need to use 2 heals to match that healing output.

    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post

    You're quite right, NPC Sorcerers get the buff on them from an outside source (being Hillmen), but I kind of liked the idea for implementation (and it seems so did Turbine, looking at the new Weaver skill). I don't mind if you'd rather not see it here, it isn't essential for the class to work. Just a little playskill. Maybe I can turn it into a CC immunity skill like the LM's SoPR.
    The reason I don't like the idea of the damage reflect is that it feels too much like a melee skill which feels out of flavour for a tactical class. I think CC immunity would be nice as an alternative.
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post

    No, ofc not.
    It works a bit like RK skills and BA stances: the skills with the longer ranges have induction times while the instant cast ones have their range reduced. The few exceptions to this are the ones which do little or no damage, such as debuffs and the 2 basic damage skills.
    Also, don't forget that this is not something being released, this is something I've written.
    When given this sort of idea to be implemented, most MMO devs would spend weeks balancing all the various skills against other skills and classes. Knowing Turbine, they would probably spend 15 minutes on it, but they'd still have to do some balancing at any rate, I don't claim this is perfect.



    I'm afraid you are mistaken about this. I shall attempt to explain as best I can.
    Firstly, let's get Terrifying Wound out of the way. It's an existing skill used by many NPCs ranging from Angmarim to Cargul to Merrevail. It is always a fear effect. Terrifying Wound is just the name of it, indicating an inflicted wound "infused" with shadow, or magic, or fear, or whatever Turbine calls it. Somehow it magically turns it into a Fear effect. Maybe eeeeviiil magic in your blood stream? Scary stuff eh.

    As for your second point, Resistance indeed applies to all Creep skills which have an effect, as you rightly pointed out. Be it debuff, DoT, CC, and even if the effect is not removable, it can always be resisted.
    However, when a Creep's Tactical Skill applies damage without an effect, it must still pass through a Resistance rating since it cannot be blocked, parried or evaded. Because, as I'm sure you will agree, there must be a chance for every character to avoid incoming damage.
    Just like Creeps have their B/P/E but also their Resistances against Song, Cry, Tactical and Physical for all the various types of Freep skills, so do Freeps have a defence against Tactical-damage-but-without-effect skills from Creepside. This type of resistance on skill damage isn't a new concept, it actually already exists on Weaver and Warleader skills. Although the Weaver's one is an odd case since it counts as a Ranged skill but can be resisted as well as B/P/E'd.
    Back to the matter at hand though; since Freep Classes only have Resistance against 4 different effects, I had to choose one of those four. Disease Resistance attacks are in the Defiler's territory and neither Poison nor Fear seem to apply to that Fire skill. So I went for Wound, since that is usually the effect of people burning (hence some of the Blackarrow/Drake/Goblin Wounds).

    But when not resisted, such a skill's damage would indeed pass through Tactical Mitigation, as you say. It just has to pass through Resistance first.
    You are right.
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post

    Cheers, but I gave them just as many DPS skills as a BA, I think that's fair for a DPS class. As for heals, there is only 1 heal for others, and it's just as potent as the Warg heal.
    The other one is a self-heal only and is a channeled skill with less healing than even Inner Flame. It's basically a Morale-regen skill for when you're in a safe place. It can't be used during active combat since it would get the Sorcerer killed most of the time.



    Read again, it isn't for every melee hit. Only for every melee skill. There are 3 Melee skills total, each with a decent timed cooldown on them. If it was on every melee hit, I would agree that 50% chance of draining 25% Max. Power would be very overpowered.
    But now that I read through it again, I feel that I don't like the random factor of this skill. Sometimes you won't get any drains, but if your luck is extremely bad, you'll get drained 75% of your power. Now for most classes 75% Power doesn't matter, but for say a Burglar that could be disastrous. And looking from the other side, not getting a single power drain on that pesky RK or Warden would be very frustrating. Maybe I should leave out the randomness and just make it a certain power drain per Melee skill for 15% or so. That way the maximum drain (if someone wants to use all their Melee skills just for draining, but I doubt it) would only be 45%. 45% would just mean chugging half a Power pot for the Burglar, and every other class has power restoring skills to regain that power. Then again, that might make the trait redundant since every class can counter it and it would only be effective if creeps started stacking Sorcerers. I'll have a think about it.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Okay, that seriously looks like a fantastic class. I hope turbine takes this seriously.

    One issue though, with the Morgul Weaponry trait at r3. One more very very powerful power drain for creepside is not needed. To put it into context, most 75 LMs have 7k power in the moors. A 5% power drain with 5 ticks over 10s is 350 power per tick, draining over 1700 power total. That's a HUGE power drain for a 50% chance to apply on every melee hit. Freeps have enough problems with stacking flies, this would just annihilate power pools within seconds if used cleverly.
    Yeah, I´ve noticed a few things that seem either too weak or too strong to me

    I think the point to balance it comes after it´s implemented, so let´s hope Turbine goes for it

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traur View Post
    I envisioned this class to be the tactical counterpart to the BA - top of the creep dps table but with limited survivability to match. The tick rate of 1 second is very high compared to defiler, a defiler would need to use 2 heals to match that healing output.
    You're looking at the wrong skill, that is only their self-heal channel.
    It can't be used it on anyone else, and it is a channel, making it far less useful than a Defiler's HoT.
    And no, if you would actully read my original post, this class does not have top of the crep DPS table, in fact it would be the lowest of all non-healer classes since it is slightly lower than the BA (at Lv85 that is, currently BAs have second highest DPS, at Lv85 they have lowest DPS). Instead they get added survivability to make up for the lost DPS.



    The reason I don't like the idea of the damage reflect is that it feels too much like a melee skill which feels out of flavour for a tactical class. I think CC immunity would be nice as an alternative.
    I agree, it does have that feel to it.
    Mind you, it's not as if Tactical or Ranged based classes aren't allowed melee skills. Oh well, if against the odds it is ever implemented, I'm sure Turbine will deal with that sort of thing.

  15. #90
    bump.

    After the dev chat, might be a good time to revive it. Great job OP.

  16. #91
    Saw this for the first time today. Loved it, especially the skins.
    ./signed

  17. #92
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    I want one.

  18. #93
    11/10, would spend TP on
    /signed

  19. #94
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    I dont normally play creepside, but if I did, this would be it.

    +rep, /signed.

  20. #95
    Gime gimme gimme!

  21. #96
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    Looks pretty awesome.
    /signed.

  22. #97
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    No I don't sign this.

    We don't know what will happen with the balance of ettens and so on, This could create huge imbalance which we do not want. Second Sorcerer are not monsters like someone said before, so goblin i would prefer, or an undead class.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by pattt View Post
    No I don't sign this.

    We don't know what will happen with the balance of ettens and so on, This could create huge imbalance which we do not want. Second Sorcerer are not monsters like someone said before, so goblin i would prefer, or an undead class.
    Firstly, a new class isn't going to create an imbalance, other than the fact that there will be large numbers of people playing this class - yet if this was to lessen the amount of defilers currently in the Evernight Ettenmoors then that wouldn't be such a bad thing. Added to this, if, when the class was first introduced, there were large numbers of people trying it out, they would be low rank, and as such easy kills for freeps, and then once the novelty had worn off, the equilibrium will reappear.

    Secondly, the great thing about this class suggestion is that it fills a hole on the creepside, currently the classes creep/freep match up like so:
    Warleader - Cappy/Guard
    Defiler - Minstrel/Healing RK
    Weaver - LM
    Stalker - Burg
    Blackarrow - Hunter
    Reaver - Champ

    The two classes which are notably absent are wardens (which, for a number of reasons that have been well-explained elsewhere, such as the fact that the gambit system only works when attached to levelling rather than ranking, as they would be painfully weak at the lowest ranks, would not work) and dps RKs.

    The Sorcerer/Sorceress perfectly fills this tactical dps class, and fits with the lore - as has been pointed out, there's even a basic model in place on session play (though with my non-existent knowledge of programming I know not whether that's actually useful in the development of a new class).

    The issue with the goblin class is that it could not be tactical dps (goblin-wizardy types should be confined to WoW, and a sapper would have to be melee to some degree), and the issue with the undead is 1) It will be a pain in the &&&& for graphics (massive lag), 2) It is more tricky to fit into the lore, and 3) It has the potential to be massively OP.

    While BirdofHermes' ideas would of course need refinement, its a solid base from which Turbine could take from to make a great new class for the Ettenmoors, and would see a rise in the participation of the usual non-Moors group in PvMP, which can only be a good thing.

  24. #99
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    And the oscar for best necromancer of 2013 goes to...

    Seriously how come this useless thread aint dead yet? They are never going to create a new class, and even if they do, they wont get it from some random guy posted it on the forum.

    GET A GRIP AND STOP TALKING NONSENSE.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelloweyedemon View Post
    And the oscar for best necromancer of 2013 goes to...

    Seriously how come this useless thread aint dead yet? They are never going to create a new class,
    Sapience begs to differ.
    Q29 Tirian_Hammerfist - Any plans to introduce a new creep class, simply for the sake of keeping things fresh? #LOTRO
    A29 Jinjaah - We have had conversations about adding some new creep classes. #LOTRO

    BQ2 Nubcat - A few creep players (especially us girls) were saying how cool it would be to play a female creep (Angmarim, perhaps). What is the chances of that, or any new creep class, being introduced to the game?
    BA2 Jinjaah - I think having a new creep class be female is a great idea.


    and even if they do, they wont get it from some random guy posted it on the forum.
    No, but they might figure it out on their own.
    On the other hand, the more support this gets, the higher the chance a blue name sees it. I suspect someone might have already seen it, since two of the new creep skills we received are the same as those I suggested in this thread. May as well be coincidence of course.


    GET A GRIP AND STOP TALKING NONSENSE.
    You have a lot of anger in you. Are you perhaps afraid a tactical class might make your Warden less fun in the moors due to no b/p/e?
    Last edited by BirdofHermes; Feb 26 2013 at 08:32 PM.

 

 
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