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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelloweyedemon View Post

    GET A GRIP AND STOP TALKING NONSENSE.
    Just because you disagree with it, this does not mean that it is nonsense.
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Tolvax, Champion - And others...
    - Afranius, R9 WL - Tolobain, R7 Weaver - Vargan, R6 Stalker -

    Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    You have a lot of anger in you. Are you perhaps afraid a tactical class might make your Warden less fun in the moors due to no b/p/e?
    You mean make them less godmode? I hope so
    Last edited by Chris91; Feb 27 2013 at 06:28 AM.

  3. #103
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    OP...
    Jeridz l Rank 9 l Minstrel l Apex l Elendilmir

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha1445 View Post
    OP...
    Feedback is nice, but could you make it more constructive? Why is it OP, what makes it OP, what would be a better alternative, etc?
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  5. #105
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    If this is doing less damage than a BA then I think it wont be dps. It seems to have less healing than a defiler so I think it wont be a healer. It looks like a lm with all the debuffs. This class is starting to sound like a dps mini with more debuffs and cc. Lower some of the debuffs such as -365 will/fate (stacked with defiler debuff thats close to 8000 tactical mastery. ~3 OPs), Fears mark (stacked with warg rabid bite/defiler flies/morgul weaponry/mortal terror = bye bye power in 10 seconds) and shadows touch. (light armors mits = 40%. W/st = 20%. add other debuffs such as reaver one and you are squishy. Now combine with the other thing above.)

    I dont think creeps need a new class. Revamp WLs so they can take on more of a captain roll with buffing and give defilers a little more healing or something like that.
    Last edited by alpha1445; Mar 01 2013 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Spelling >.<
    Jeridz l Rank 9 l Minstrel l Apex l Elendilmir

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha1445 View Post
    If this is doing less damage than a BA then I think it wont be dps. It seems to have less healing than a defiler so I think it wont be a healer. It looks like a lm with all the debuffs.
    It has elements of many existing classes, but it isn't not based off of one single class. In fact these debuffs are more similar to a Burglar's or a Defiler's than a LM's.


    This class is starting to sound like a dps mini with more debuffs and cc.
    Yes, except in that it can't DPS nor heal like a minstrel. It's has one on-defeat group heal à la Warg, one morale drain (if traited) and one channel self-heal à la Inner Flame. But to make up for that lack of DPS/heals, it can use CC/debuffs instead, sort of like a LM in the pre-MoM days.


    Lower some of the debuffs such as -365 will/fate (stacked with defiler debuff thats close to 8000 tactical mastery. ~3 OPs),
    That's the standard -X stat ammount for debuffs I'm afraid. Be glad they aren't as potent as LM debuffs or we would be in trouble.


    Fears mark (stacked with warg rabid bite/defiler flies/morgul weaponry/mortal terror = bye bye power in 10 seconds)
    Warg's Rabid Bite is +40% power cost, +75% with the trait. The skill I'm proposing is +25% power cost. But you say 25% is too high?While the existing 40% or 75% is fine?
    But no, you wouldn't be able to deplete your power pool. Unless maybe you play a Guardian, in which case I'd advise you not use too many skills while it's active or move out of the way. Their regen just sucks and should really be looked at.
    Also, Mortal Terror doesn't drain any power.


    and shadows touch. (light armors mits = 40%. W/st = 20%. add other debuffs such as reaver one and you are squishy. Now combine with the other thing above.)
    Agreed, 20% is overmuch for light armours, your tactical damage type reduction would be reduced to 32.6%. That is unacceptable. Maybe I'll tune it down to 15% or 10%. Or just make it +10% incoming damage, like a mark. Ooooh, Burglary. I'll have a think about that.


    I dont think creeps need a new class. Revamp WLs so they can take on more of a captain roll with buffing and give defilers a little more healing or something like that.
    Correct, they don't need one. But it would be nice to see the tactical role fulfilled.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  7. #107
    /signed. Awesome idea, would love to see this class in game. More variation is indeed needed. A goblin 'warden' like class would also imo be nice addition (im thinking like stoneheight first boss)

  8. #108
    /sign would love to be a morgul sorcerer, creeps need a new class. it wouldnt be fair if freeps get mounted combat and creeps got nothing, so why not put in this new class?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha1445 View Post
    OP...
    Says the Mini!
    zS
    Signed, these are great ideas, and dare I saw that I think I remember some rumours of this being discussed in the lotro council
    Selembar - R12 - Minstrel
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  10. #110
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    /signed and +rep

    This is actually a brilliant idea for a class and I have long thought about putting together my own version of the sorcerer myself, but I never actually put it down in writing. Very well done and thought out.

    On a more realistic note, I feel like the sheer amount of buffs and debuffs the sorcerer would get would simply be way too OP. I play a captain and my damage increasing skills are no where near this good. I mean, I have telling mark (+10% damage on one target) but having a group-wide +5% damage buff would be insane. Simply way too OP. The damage reflect is way too strong for this class, 15% returned for 30s every 2m? Maybe 5% would be more reasonable. I could go on, but you definitely have the right idea, it just needs some tweaking.

    Something else to consider about this is anyone can buy the class and play it (which is a good idea!) but then we'd have raids of 12 sorcerers and 12 other classes. I feel like I would remove some of the medium DoTs and replace them with more basic attacks (with effects) and take the high-end DoTs and introduce them at a higher rank. Consider that (assuming turbine puts all of the skills in the store) that everyone who plays a sorcerer will most likely buy all of their skills too. Then you'd have a horde of well equipped sorcerers, which are meant to make freeps blow up.

    Back to my point, you have the right idea but I feel like it needs more tweaking and most importantly (note this Turbine): implementation and testing. I see no reason as to why this couldn't work. The creeps are in need of a support/tactical DPS class, it fits the lore, and as mentioned before the animations and skins exist (as well as the actual UI and sorcerer session play). The only thing holding Turbine back is the fast that they dont listen to us.

    Case and point: Brilliant idea that needs to be implemented and fine tuned.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a00000024cec6/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  11. #111

    O.O

    This is extremely well thought out. I'm completely sick and tired of people who suggest these and don't think it through, looking over here at it, I'll play it AS SOON (<----) as it comes out
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000018aee5/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    "If you think about it, Lotro is the story of a crafting quest gone wrong..."

  12. #112
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    Thanks for the feedback from everyone. I've taken some of your suggestions on board, and have replaced some of the debuffs and the reflect.


    Quote Originally Posted by mavemasta View Post
    -snip-
    On a more realistic note, I feel like the sheer amount of buffs and debuffs the sorcerer would get would simply be way too OP. I play a captain and my damage increasing skills are no where near this good. I mean, I have telling mark (+10% damage on one target) but having a group-wide +5% damage buff would be insane. Simply way too OP.
    -snip-
    First of all, thanks for the feedback and support.
    I'm afraid I have to disagree with this point though, +5% damage would be very powerful on freepside, but on creepside not so much due to their low base dps. Heck, Wargs can already give the group +5% damage, and Warleaders can give their group +25% melee damage and -10% attack duration, and I have yet to see complaints about either of those -- they just don't make that huge of a difference when in large raids (except that one time we had a 20-reaver-4-warleader raid, that was both fun and insanely silly to be a part of).
    Not to mention Captains can give their fellowship +5% damage and -15% attack duration with an on-defeat skill with relatively short cooldown.


    Quote Originally Posted by mavemasta View Post
    Back to my point, you have the right idea but I feel like it needs more tweaking and most importantly (note this Turbine): implementation and testing. I see no reason as to why this couldn't work. The creeps are in need of a support/tactical DPS class, it fits the lore, and as mentioned before the animations and skins exist (as well as the actual UI and sorcerer session play). The only thing holding Turbine back is the fast that they dont listen to us.
    Oh I certainly agree, this is after all just one of many possible ways the class could work, and it is only a suggestion. If such a class would ever get implemented, it may look nothing at all like this.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  13. #113
    I would pay to unlock the Sorceress.

  14. #114
    Oh look, a thread on a class Turbine will sadly implement as they've said they don't care for pvp, not directly. However, ./signed and good idea.

  15. #115
    Those are some excellent and well thought out ideas for a class type that's long overdue on creep side.

    It's positive suggestions such as yours that we can only hope Turbine are taking note of.

    +rep, well done.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420801000023e264/signature.png]Yuggoth[/charsig]

  16. #116
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    +1 rep

    You've obviously put a lot of time and effort into this and it shows. I really hope this is implemented ingame, hell you've done all the groundwork.

    Well done mate. Fantastic post.
    SteamBear level 101 Defiler - Legion of Lost Souls
    Twitter @Judging_Jester

  17. #117
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    This seems to have freeps and creeps a like in mutual agreement that this class should be the next innovation into The Ettenmoors.

    +1 Rep from me

    Hope the Devs see this and implement the idea!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/202240100000a51c4/signature.png]Lungrash[/charsig]

  18. #118
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    i love that class,ad the true is thr creeps they dont have a mage class from angmarin.
    Krom Of MELLOWS

  19. #119
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    I will keep on dreaming to see a class like this roaming the moors. It is fantastic how you described it and how you developed all skills along with ranking.
    I would like to show some ideas, and you can tell me if they are of some worth or not.
    What about?..
    A rank 7 non purchasable from store skill:
    -Shared fate
    --(can only be used under quarter morale)
    --Your life relies on your executioner, and viceversa.
    --Applies an instant defeat to the player who defeats you.
    --Duration 10 seconds
    --Cooldown: 5 min
    This skill will have a characteristic animation, and will give room to run away at least some metres (because of freeps will recognize you toggled it). As a tactical skill class, everything can go wrong and it will need a "holy&&&&" button.
    A initial melee skill:
    -Cursed blade
    --You quickly stab your enemy´s right arm
    --leaving it useless for a short period of time
    --Cause a disarm effect. Cannot be cured.
    --Duration: 6 seconds
    --Cooldown:30 seconds
    I thought of this skill because the class will need skills to get some "breathing room" in order to cast debuffs against melee classes.
    I checked the class traits and I did not see this, despite being applied by the summoned pet (I will give my opinion to it a bit later), dread is an important matter to an angmarin based class, so:
    -Saurons sage
    --Bearers of light will suffer even when
    --they approach to you.
    --Applies a AoE dread effect depending on rank
    --(Rank-3) Dread within 10 metres.
    With the trait you will earn the skill with the same name. It would act as a toggle skill.
    Bearing in mind the fact of being a debuffing class It also came to my mind that long fights are the best for this class so it would be really cool to apply a debuffs that tiers up, as you also mentioned.
    New skill:
    -Doom, so close
    --Your speech is undeniable, making your enemy aware of how endless darkness is.
    --Cause Exhausted effect to occur on target
    -->-10% run speed
    -->+15% skills induction/duration
    -->+15% skill power cost
    -->It can be tier up until 5 times
    --Cooldown: 15 seconds.
    As a tactical class, there is not need to be in melee range to apply a run speed debuff, So I also think this can be one skill.
    -Pursued by darknees
    --30 metres range
    --Staring at your enemy becomes even a heavy burden.
    --Targets speed lowered to 30%
    --Duration 4 seconds.
    --Cooldown 30 seconds.
    I do not like the idea of only being able to summon a pet as a defeat response. Maybe to improve skills effects. The pet should be a rank gained skill. An the summoned pet should vary according to rank also. Some angmarins in Annuminas can summon spiders. Because of the need of a defeat response could become a nearly impossible task when solo. (I mean to find a freep and dfeat him/her), more probably when playing withing group/raid.
    At last, I want to point out the fact that freeps can remove corruptions from creeps but creeps can not remove virtues. I think that at least this sorcerer should be able to remove buffs. That would be nice.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros View Post
    This seems to have freeps and creeps a like in mutual agreement that this class should be the next innovation into The Ettenmoors.

    +1 Rep from me

    Hope the Devs see this and implement the idea!
    Dream on...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ow_tIIhleo
    Ridduk R14 WL
    Brandywine

  21. #121
    There should be 9 freep classes and 9 creep classes. Simple as that. Least have a balanced number of pickable classes for each side, if anything. Still need the Goblin Sapper and the Morgul Sorcerer, the last one is up for decision.

    We haven't had a "new" creep class since book 13 of SoA, so 5 years ago.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    There should be 9 freep classes and 9 creep classes. Simple as that. Least have a balanced number of pickable classes for each side, if anything. Still need the Goblin Sapper and the Morgul Sorcerer, the last one is up for decision.

    We haven't had a "new" creep class since book 13 of SoA, so 5 years ago.
    Creeps really need a hillmen class aswell. especially since they're such a huge part of the game.
    Nerf healing in PvMP and just maybe it will be worth it again.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    Creeps really need a hillmen class aswell. especially since they're such a huge part of the game.
    Good idea.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    Creeps really need a hillmen class aswell. especially since they're such a huge part of the game.
    Oh yes that would be fun. Judging by the Hillmen ingame, I imagine a sort of melee/tank oriented class?

    And as a bonus you could have various Dunlending/Easterling skins for it as well, for those who don't like the traditional Hillman look.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  25. #125
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    Brilliant idea

    Creeps really need a new class, this would be perfect. The only suggestion I have would be to give the 40m ranged skills 30m instead, make them like rune keepers and give people a reason to still play Blackarrow.
    I would definitely buy one.
    Meshoot, rank 9 Blackarrow, Officer of Freepaphiles Riddermark
    >:} Memento Mori {:<
    Aka Grumpis the honorable Mustelidian Pew Pew of love and cheery brightness.
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