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  1. #1

    Lore-Master healing capability

    Hey all, I am currently lvling my Lore-Master and when I hit 75 I want to specialize on (off)healing, just because Ive never seen a LM in blue traits in a raid or even fellowship actively healing, it seems interesing to me. I looked up LM legacies, sets and pets and it seems to me that heal of LM doesnt actually have to be bad. I could still do some pretty nice debuff when heal-traited.

    I have written down things to maximize my healing.

    Traits: 5 Blue - Light of Hope, Improved Flanking, Healer, Improved Inner Flame, Proof against all Ills.
    + Deep Lore, Knowledge of the Past


    Legacies - inner-flame heal, fire-lore targets, share the power increase, beacon of hope heal, sign of power duration, debuff resistance

    Pet - Spirit - for 10% morale heals and flanking when I need to heal my Air-Lore target.
    Armour - Armour of the Lavanhebron - additional -30s to inner flame heal is nice, but is the Air-Lore bonus actually good? It helps the tank build aggro right?
    Legendary traits - I will use Sword and Staff for some extra stats, Noble Savage for some extra morale for Spirit, Nature-friend to summon spirit in battle if he dies..

    Is there anything I missed out?
    Edit: Also, does LM have problems with threat while healing? I know I can pull agro with heal pretty easily when doing some small skirmish but I rather mean pulling aggro at raids and smaller instances.
    Last edited by GrinsgarCZ; Jul 10 2012 at 08:00 AM.

  2. #2
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    You might want to add that brooch that adds +evade to your pet to give him more survivability. But I think you've covered it pretty well. Let us know how it turns out! Sounds like a fun experiment.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Hey all, I am currently lvling my Lore-Master and when I hit 75 I want to specialize on (off)healing, just because Ive never seen a LM in blue traits in a raid or even fellowship actively healing
    There's a very good reason for that, hopefully you'll discover it before trying some content that matters.

  4. #4
    You can heal better if you use 5 yellow or 5 red + Eagle. The improved debuffs or damage will "heal" more than groupwide Inner Flame.
    Inner Flame channels too long.

    Improved Flanking, Healer/Light of Hope are the only traits you need to get the most important healing abilities.

    whether you choose Healer or Light of Hope depends on you. I prefer Healer, but Light of Hope gives more "control".

    Healer provides - 0,75 seconds casttime to Beacon of Hope, Light of Hope gives -1,0 seconds
    Healer increases Beacon of Hope's healing by 10%, Light of Hope increases it by 50%
    Healer increases flankheals by 10%, Light of Hope doesn't affect flanks
    Healer accelerates Share the power by 50% and reduces powercosts by 15%, Light of Hope doesn't affect it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatharil View Post
    You can heal better if you use 5 yellow or 5 red + Eagle. The improved debuffs or damage will "heal" more than groupwide Inner Flame.
    Inner Flame channels too long.
    If I am looking at those traits right - with Yellow traits I have extra -10% ranged damage debuff,-5% tactical damage debuff,+13% miss chance - I see that this could be better than the traited+legacy improved inner flame in some situations, but in some different situations simply not.

    Inner flame channels too long, yeah thats true - but I could just do all debuffs+buffs and than go Inner flame - there is some time I believe - I could do some extra damage instead of that, but I want to be mainly debuffer and healer so thats not the case.

  6. #6
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    I would say replace the Spirit of Nature with Bog-Lurker, the constant flanks from the Lurker will keep you at top power, and keep the heals from wizards fire at a constant, also try earning the Ost Dunhoth set to make these heals into aoes.

    I always trait Blue myself no matter what Im doing. and our heals dont really bring much if any threat, just make sure your not spamming debuffs and other things like mad, else you soon will be without Power.

    It's important to note that the spirits stats dont really matter, it seems to never get attacked by monsters, and the heal is not based on its morale, rather the person it is healing!

    So if your using Spirit...Brooch doesn't matter.
    If your using Bog Lurker (in Melee for more flanks) use the evasion Brooch, he can survive aoes that way and use Noble Savage, you may want to also use the trait which allows both pet buffs to be cast, meaning more surviability, and more flanks!!

    This way he also gets more aggro than you, so you should never be the victim of enemies damage. And Lurker is more than strong enough to take a load of hits till the boss gets downed.
    Last edited by GingerAj; Jul 10 2012 at 01:34 PM.
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  7. #7
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    The problem with Inner Flame isn't so much the time it takes - there are numerous group content situations where you could safely stand pumping out the morale[1], but the amount of morale healed for time taken[2] is just awful. If the healing output from IF were upgraded (and not just the extra 10% for 2 blues) then it might become a reasonable use of the time requirement.

    Currently, as stated above, 5 yellows (or at least 4 if PAAI is a requirement) is much better than many blues for this type of role. Your healing output will be about the same, but you will achieve a far greater reduction to incoming damage.

    [1] And many others where you couldn't, of course.
    [2] Even as a group heal.
    Main: Tirnolwe of The Lost Companions, Laurelin (75LM)
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by GingerAj View Post
    I would say replace the Spirit of Nature with Bog-Lurker, the constant flanks from the Lurker will keep you at top power, and keep the heals from wizards fire at a constant, also try earning the Ost Dunhoth set to make these heals into aoes....
    Thanks for the suggestions. More flanks would certainly be nice but I actually like the ability of Spirit giving flanked! right in the moment when its needed. But I will definitely give the Bog-Guardian a try. AoE flank heals and even HoT of beacon of hope would be awesome, but im still wondering if the lvl 65 armor is worth it (worse stats - worse survivability, worse outgoing healing)


    Quote Originally Posted by Tromador View Post
    The problem with Inner Flame isn't so much the time it takes - there are numerous group content situations where you could safely stand pumping out the morale[1], but the amount of morale healed for time taken[2] is just awful. If the healing output from IF were upgraded (and not just the extra 10% for 2 blues) then it might become a reasonable use of the time requirement.
    Another bonus for inner flame is +50% from a legendary legacy. When I hit 75 I will make some 3rd ager with that legacy and give it a try if its worth it.

    Still I dont see how the yellow traits are "much better" for healing. Please note that I see blue traits worthy in group content only in combination with the healing legacies. As I stated above Yellow traits give just this additional debuff: -10% ranged damage debuff,-5% tactical damage debuff,+13% miss chance - which is IMO not so much. The Yellow traits give of-course some additional CC benefits but thats not the case.
    Last edited by GrinsgarCZ; Jul 10 2012 at 02:03 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Still I dont see how the yellow traits are "much better" for healing. Please note that I see blue traits worthy in group content only in combination with the healing legacies.
    Maybe I've missed something but there's only two healing legacies, one for beacon of hope and one for inner flame.

    Beacon of hope, nobody is writing off and taking a blue (perhaps healer) to augment that, along with improved flanking is clearly a good choice, but there is nothing really to be gained in the healer line for traiting deep into blue, as you are really only improving your pet, not your healing output.

    In discussing yellow traits:

    Have you considered that they are AoE skills (many can be traited/legacied to affect even more targets) so reduce damage from multiple targets.
    Have you considered that if the general output of damage from mobs is reduced, this works as damage reduction to the group. Aside from the (much debated) inner flame, LM healing is single target[1] so can't have similar group effects.
    The usefulness of the damage reduction becomes much more evident in endgame group content, where mobs are hitting like trucks.
    You've ignored traits which cause the mobs to take more damage. (Improved SoP:C, Force of Will). Dead Mobs do no damage.

    [1] Flanking also heals LM if you want to be really picky, I know.
    Last edited by Tromador; Jul 10 2012 at 02:31 PM.
    Main: Tirnolwe of The Lost Companions, Laurelin (75LM)
    Alts: Silithil (75CHP) Campion (75GRD) Alunadail (75MIN) Geirdis (75CP)
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Still I dont see how the yellow traits are "much better" for healing. As I stated above Yellow traits give just this additional debuff: -10% ranged damage debuff,-5% tactical damage debuff,+13% miss chance - which is IMO not so much. The Yellow traits give of-course some additional CC benefits but thats not the case.
    5 yellow allows you to keep up firelore all the time. That's why it "heals" more than improved Inner Flame.
    Inner Flame helaing is...ok. BUT it needs to much time channeling. There are so many things you can too but channeling Inner Flame... Inner Flame healing can't be set higher. We're not intended to be Healers in 6mans.

    We can heal 3mans and offheal in 6mans. That's what we are intended to do. And to heal 3 mans 5 red/5 yellow is stronger than 5 blue. Sad but true. The healing line is weaker than the debuff and damage line at healing.
    Keeper of Animals has some really good traits, but not enough to go 5 deep into it. Healer, Light of Hope, Improved Flanking are very nice. (Proof against all ills is good in some situations too), but it's hard to find more than 3 useful bluetraits.

    btw: the ettenhealset is very good to. Adds a HoT to BoH.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tromador View Post
    Have you considered that they are AoE skills (many can be traited/legacied to affect even more targets) so reduce damage from multiple targets.
    Have you considered that if the general output of damage from mobs is reduced, this works as damage reduction to the group. Aside from the (much debated) inner flame, LM healing is single target[1] so can't have similar group effects.
    The usefulness of the damage reduction becomes much more evident in endgame group content, where mobs are hitting like trucks.
    You've ignored traits which cause the mobs to take more damage. (Improved SoP:C, Force of Will). Dead Mobs do no damage.
    [1] Flanking also heals LM if you want to be really picky, I know.
    I have. I am aware of all of that. It just seems to me that the debuff of AM is not so much better. As I stated above, I would definitely trait Deep Lore for some extra lore targets (+ the legacy for extra Fire Lore targets). BUT I missed that the Force of Will increases the duration of lore-skills (thx Tatharil) - that can be major difference indeed.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tatharil View Post
    We can heal 3mans and offheal in 6mans. That's what we are intended to do. And to heal 3 mans 5 red/5 yellow is stronger than 5 blue. Sad but true. The healing line is weaker than the debuff and damage line at healing.
    Keeper of Animals has some really good traits, but not enough to go 5 deep into it. Healer, Light of Hope, Improved Flanking are very nice. (Proof against all ills is good in some situations too), but it's hard to find more than 3 useful bluetraits.
    If the LM does not use the Inner Flame there is definitely no point for traiting more than 3 blue traits yes. But still I will give that skill a try at 75 lvl. I know the LM is not a healer class, its a support class. But Captain is a support class and yet heals pretty well - I want to try how close the LM can get to Cappy in that.
    Thanks all for comments.
    Last edited by GrinsgarCZ; Jul 10 2012 at 02:55 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. More flanks would certainly be nice but I actually like the ability of Spirit giving flanked! right in the moment when its needed. But I will definitely give the Bog-Guardian a try. AoE flank heals and even HoT of beacon of hope would be awesome, but im still wondering if the lvl 65 armor is worth it (worse stats - worse survivability, worse outgoing healing)
    No Problems The OD set does have worse stats than current 75, and a few people have suggested getting the Raiments of Restoration for their bonuses ...but their stats dont seem to be in the wikia, and also its ettenmoors gear ...:S
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  13. #13
    Concerning Lore-master healing. My Lore-master has a setup specifically for main healing. I have a 2nd age 75 book (3 crystals for a +37.something tactical healing rating) with maxed Beacon of Hope/Inner Flame legacies. Capped outgoing healing (50% ~ 27.5k tactical mastery). Trait wise I go with at minimum Improved Flanking, and Light of Hope traits if I am going to be dps and healing (other 5 red). Toss Healer, Improved Inner Flame, Study of Fire-Lore, and 2 other situationals (usually pet buffs) and that's what I use when I heal T2 Fangorn/T2 Dargnak (have healed up to the fire boss of T2 Pits but to be honest, I hate that place). Gear wise I use the helm/shoulders/chest of the ToO healer set, and the shoes/gloves/pants of the pvmp Restoration set.

    With all this my Inner Flame pulses average around 200 moral/ my Istari heals are 1k-2k and I've crit on Beacon of Hope for 5.1k (on a champ)

    If anyone has any suggestions to further improve a Lore-masters healing capabilities please let me know. (passed on the OD set due to loss of stats; just not worth the trade off in my opinion).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    But Captain is a support class and yet heals pretty well - I want to try how close the LM can get to Cappy in that.
    Captain traited for healing will outdo the loremaster every time. Much easier to main heal a 3-man on a cappy.
    Main: Tirnolwe of The Lost Companions, Laurelin (75LM)
    Alts: Silithil (75CHP) Campion (75GRD) Alunadail (75MIN) Geirdis (75CP)
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  15. #15
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    you can heal with bonus set and hot on beacon and all blue tarait + bog for flank enemy ranged and heal the tank with wizard fire flank.
    Anyway heal in a raid is impossible, and think a lore master for off heal well, you coised the wrong class

  16. #16
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    Yeah, it's been said already in the thread, but the reason 5 yellow delivers so much extra debuffing isn't from the individual "improved" traits, but because of the legendary skill force of will (from the Moria class quest chain "beacon of hope", equippable with 5 yellow traits). This trait doubles the uptime of the most important debuffs, taking them from 50% to 100% uptime. There is NOTHING in the blue line that comes close to the effective healing that that level of damage reduction brings. bottom line is (unfortunately) you will always be more effective at keeping your fellowship alive in yellow than blue traits.

    Also, the thing with healing is that raw output is irrelevant, what matters is effective output. Inner flame sort of kind of has decent raw output (a ~BoH per person over the channel), but very very little of it will be effective. It's not quick enough to save people through decent AOE damage and most of it is wasted in single target healing situations. The only armour bonus that has any healing relevance is the beacon of hope HoT bonus on the level 65 ost dunohoth set (memory of the west) or the current PvMP set.

    And as others have said, LMs are not effective healers in anything but the smallest group content. Our beacon spot heal is valuable, but it's a complement to other healing from main healers and captains, not a substitute.
    Last edited by PsychobabbleJJ; Jul 11 2012 at 01:11 AM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brinuw View Post
    Concerning Lore-master healing. My Lore-master has a setup specifically for main healing. I have a 2nd age 75 book (3 crystals for a +37.something tactical healing rating) ...
    Thanks Brinuw, this is very helpful

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychobabbleJJ View Post
    Also, the thing with healing is that raw output is irrelevant, what matters is effective output. Inner flame sort of kind of has decent raw output (a ~BoH per person over the channel), but very very little of it will be effective. It's not quick enough to save people through decent AOE damage and most of it is wasted in single target healing situations. The only armour bonus that has any healing relevance is the beacon of hope HoT bonus on the level 65 ost dunohoth set (memory of the west) or the current PvMP set.
    Inner Flame is probably too slow to 1 Hit AoE dmg, but I think it could fairly well negate to some lvl some DoT AoE dmg, like the "earthquake" of the trolls at ToO T2 Lightning or also at T2 Lightning at Boss when the electrification is all over the place and everyone stands in it.

    Does anyone has an experience with the full Lavanhebron set? How powerful the Air-Lore threat bonus is?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Does anyone has an experience with the full Lavanhebron set? How powerful the Air-Lore threat bonus is?
    I have this set bonus. If you are in red, it brings nothing. May be only bear will hold thread from one mob (I haven´t tested it long, today we do more damage as for half year. For half year bear was also capable to hold thread from one mob, if it had a time to build up thread).

    If you are in blue/yellow - it brings something. Pets can hold longer thread and if you are fighting against more mobs and you will use e.g. gust of the wind, all mobs will stay on your pet and will not run to you.

    So, if you use pets for tanking, it is nice choice for you.

    But - for this you need 4 blue traits, if you have less, the probability is only 1%. Than it is not worth to put on. Choose wisely.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    So, if you use pets for tanking, it is nice choice for you.
    I was rather thought to use the Air-Lore on a real tank, so its easier for him to hold aggro, if its possible.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    I was rather thought to use the Air-Lore on a real tank, so its easier for him to hold aggro, if its possible.
    If you have traited 4 blue, than yes. If not, then because of 1% probability it is for nothing.
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  21. #21
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    if you have trait for group innerflame and a book with full tactical healing + 50% innerflame heal you can heal for 200 or more per sec.
    At troll i use that for help a bit in healing while i waiting for stun the troll but ... my lore master is elf and we have a fail animation at begin and Elf lose first second .. (FAIL)

  22. #22
    When I think about it, Inner flame would actually be quite interesting useful skill, if it would be a toggle. It could be used any time needed and to not make it OP, it would be a lot power-consuming( apart from that its a lot time consuming). And all the -inner flame CD bonuses would be made into -x% inner flame power cost.

  23. #23
    Inner Flame would be fine, if it wasn't channeled.
    1,5 seconds casttime applying the HoT, that would be adequate.

 

 

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