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  1. #1

    Captain Moors Gear = Raiding Gear. I'll tell you why.

    I'll just skip right to the main reasons why Moors Captain gear has been tailored for PvE.

    It really comes straight from the the set bonus's. Stat wise you won't find these sets to be as satisfying as the ToO set, but in all actuality, the bonus's end up being the larger modifier.

    Lets break the two sets down that I use to PvE:

    First one: Perseverance Set. Here's a look at the bonus's.




    If you notice, I have the 3 set bonus that gives -20% Defeat Event skills Cooldowns. This essentially translates into all of your defeat response skills cds dropping by -20%. The reason why this is important in pve, is because you can utilize your rallying cry 2.5x more than if you didn't have this set bonus. So, instead of a 15s Rallying Cry (with legacy), you actually end up with a Rallying Cry (with legacy) looking like this :



    So from 15s to 6s. This basically means anytime you get a defeat response you will be able to use a rallying cry since your defeat response last for 8s.



    Now, for the 2nd 3 piece set:



    As you'll notice, I once again have the 3 peice set equipped. It's not about the stats, its all about the set bonus you get. The -25% Escape from Darkness Cooldown is really what you are aiming for. This 3 piece set essentially makes the captain have....by far, the best in combat res in the game. I'll show you why. If you trait for Escape from Darkness (blue line), and you have the legacy on your emblem, your Escape from Darkness will look like this.



    What you should be looking at is the Cooldown for Escape from Darkness. Notice that this 10m TRAITED skill becomes 2m30s! That is by far the best in combat res in the game.



    If you want 6s Rallying Cry, and 2m30s Escape from Darkness, you need to invest the time to acquire both 3 piece sets from the moors on your cappy. It does wonders in pve.
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  2. #2
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    Yip another reason why turbine fail.

    I understand why cappies get the sets, but its just wrong. PvE raids that i lead (rarely these days), i make sure no one wears PvP sets.

    Its just crazy.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    I understand why cappies get the sets, but its just wrong. PvE raids that i lead (rarely these days), i make sure no one wears PvP sets.
    Bizarre attitude, but if you lead raids I guess you can make such arbitrary rules. Glad to not attend though. Do you also ban PvP jewelry or the rank 8 standard? Funky.

    And to OP, yes, it is a bit odd that the best bonuses for PvE are on PvP sets. And you left off the Command set, which is the best of the lot for the DPS races that seem to dominate some raids...
    Last edited by DelgonTheWise; Jul 10 2012 at 12:59 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtdg21 View Post
    What you should be looking at is the Cooldown for Escape from Darkness. Notice that this 10m TRAITED skill becomes 2m30s! That is by far the best in combat res in the game.
    What are you doing that needs an IC rez every 2m30s? What with CD resetting at the start of boss fights.

    It makes sense in PvP where death rate is high and CD don't reset, but in PvE? I'd take the 3 piece Dagor every time.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  5. #5
    the problem is that modifier are taken from the base value instead of being a cumulative...

    -20% of 15 seconds should end up at 12 seconds

    and

    -25% of 10 minutes should end up with 7m30

    but no the modifier are applied to the

    45 sec. minus 20% = -9 seconds

    30 minutes minus 25% = 7m30

    if you compare it with untraited/legacy skills:

    45 seconds become 36 seconds

    and

    30 minutes become 22m30


    which make more sense.

    It's imo a flaw in the computation design...

    If the Ratio reduction would be calculated after the fixed valuye reduction, then there will be no issue.

    Beside it's the purpose of making a ratio reduction, so it's adapt to a variable.

    Otherwise, they should just set it to fized values:

    -9 seconds to defeat response skills CD.

    -7m30 to escape the darkness CC.

    This just show up an issue in the lotro calculation of ratio vs fixed value, that should be fixed imho.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, something needs to be done about this situation. I don't mind PvP gear being useful for PvE, but in this case the set bonuses from the PvP gear just blow away the set bonuses you get from Orthanc. Especially at the 3-piece level.

    The only one that really compares is Dagor's 3-set that reduces the Shadow's Lament cooldown when you hit with BoE... which, oh by the way, stacks with the Perseverance cooldown reduction and makes Dagor/Pers + LtC the absolute dominant choice for both damage and healing output. Thanks for giving us armour set bonuses that wipe out the only point to an entire trait line.
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  7. #7
    I do agree with the OP, but I'm going to talk G13 Gamepad again.

    With it, I get the benefits of MULTIPLE set bonuses, without having to manually load gear.

    I get:

    11.25 minute Last Stand Cooldown
    +600 tac mit. on motivated speech for group
    -4 sec on SL cooldown from BoE
    20% reduction on all On Defeats
    5 sec slow immunity from Make Haste for group
    +25% chance power return on Defensive Strike under BoE
    *** soon to have *** 2.5 minute Rez Cooldown

    This thing is only $59.99 from Amazon, which is less than the legendary edition of Rohan. And, unlike Rohan, you will actually BE a legendary captain with this purchase.

    It requires effort, though. Effort that you are rewarded for. Anything else is just not trying hard enough.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheStormKing View Post
    This thing is only $59.99 from Amazon, which is less than the legendary edition of Rohan. And, unlike Rohan, you will actually BE a legendary captain with this purchase.

    It requires effort, though. Effort that you are rewarded for. Anything else is just not trying hard enough.
    You are welcome to think so.

    I consider using devices like that not suitable for my personal gameplay values. I swap manually for the things I feel compelled to (buffs, SOW, rez, TON). I don't want my gameplay "enhanced" by automation. Doesn't agree with my notion of how things should be. My choosing not to go get and program a macroing device is not due to a lack of funds or laziness...

    I'd be pleased if they were banned myself. Would likewise be happy if in-combat armor swaps didn't work, as they are ridiculous. Weapons swaps are VAGUELY plausible, but changing your heavy armor suit while engaged with one or more foes is a bizarre concept. But I realize everyone draws the line in a different place, and what is allowed by Turbine is allowed. I use buffbars, some might consider than an "unfair" game enhancement, so, well, each to their own...
    Last edited by DelgonTheWise; Jul 10 2012 at 01:07 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Yeah, something needs to be done about this situation. I don't mind PvP gear being useful for PvE, but in this case the set bonuses from the PvP gear just blow away the set bonuses you get from Orthanc. Especially at the 3-piece level.

    The only one that really compares is Dagor's 3-set that reduces the Shadow's Lament cooldown when you hit with BoE... which, oh by the way, stacks with the Perseverance cooldown reduction and makes Dagor/Pers + LtC the absolute dominant choice for both damage and healing output. Thanks for giving us armour set bonuses that wipe out the only point to an entire trait line.
    Yep, 3 Perseverence is too good, as is 5 Command IMHO.

    It wouldn't be so awful if you needed rank to use the PvP sets -- at least it would take a significant effort comparable to raiding to get them -- though I still think it isn't quite right that PvP sets are > TOO sets for raids/solo content. But you don't even need to take your Captain out to the moors at all -- can get Commendations from creep play or alts or whatever. If there were a rank requirement, at least it wouldn't be quite as easy to get the PvP armor. It takes only time, not far as I can tell much skill as I'm not great at PvP and have 8 pieces.

  10. #10
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    I agree that Moors gear set bonuses far outweigh the minor stat loss and zero value of audacity in PvE. The Moors grind is the most grueling in the game and I feel the bonuses need to be that good to off-set the loss of aforementioned stats. If said bonuses happen to be good in PvE, then so be it...whether they're better is purely situational.

  11. #11
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    I enjoy having these tools in my repetoire. By and large, I did not enjoy acquiring them.
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  12. #12
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    5 piece Command is by far the best set for at least 3/5 bosses in Orthanc. Also it goes to 10% incoming damage rather than 5% like it says. I honestly think it can be the variable that will make your raid win or lose.

    Compare that to ~200 power return on crit from the 5 piece Orthanc DPS set.
    Beastwise - Captain, R15 | Shock and Awe | Gladden

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastnas View Post
    Compare that to ~200 power return on crit from the 5 piece Orthanc DPS set.
    Or +300 Tactical Mit on Motivating Speech, from the 5-piece bonus Orthanc tanking set. I mean, it's nice to have, but super underwhelming compared to any of the PvP 3-set bonuses.
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  14. #14
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    Okay... so? It's great gear in and out.

  15. #15
    how long does it take to grind the moors gear?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Graycient View Post
    Okay... so? It's great gear in and out.
    Audacity was specifically introduced to make PvE gear undesirable for the Moors, and Moors gear undesirable for PvE.

    The Captain set boni break this stated goal big time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Mirkwood View Post
    I agree that Moors gear set bonuses far outweigh the minor stat loss and zero value of audacity in PvE. The Moors grind is the most grueling in the game and I feel the bonuses need to be that good to off-set the loss of aforementioned stats. If said bonuses happen to be good in PvE, then so be it...whether they're better is purely situational.
    There is no loss of stats. One point of Audacity gives you ample extra capability, more than off-setting any puny extra a traditional stat-unit could bring... And no, in the Captain case, -20% CD on 4 defeat event skills is always beneficial and never situational.

    Even moreso when it enables a LtC Captain to pump out more heals than a HoH Captain.
    Last edited by Vandervahn; Jul 11 2012 at 02:31 AM.

  17. #17
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    You can get this set with tons of quests in the moors without meeting one single monster so stay cool PvE bobs...
    Second Marshall Maywyn Eorthas of Rohan - Captain - Rank 13

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastnas View Post
    Also it goes to 10% incoming damage rather than 5% like it says.
    It´s because of the legacie on your weapon: +5% Telling Mark Damage
    Second Marshall Maywyn Eorthas of Rohan - Captain - Rank 13

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Or +300 Tactical Mit on Motivating Speech, from the 5-piece bonus Orthanc tanking set. I mean, it's nice to have, but super underwhelming compared to any of the PvP 3-set bonuses.
    600 Mitigation....

    and compared to 3-set bonus of loyalty-set a nice to have
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Bizarre attitude, but if you lead raids I guess you can make such arbitrary rules. Glad to not attend though. Do you also ban PvP jewelry or the rank 8 standard? Funky.

    And to OP, yes, it is a bit odd that the best bonuses for PvE are on PvP sets. And you left off the Command set, which is the best of the lot for the DPS races that seem to dominate some raids...
    PvP armour in a PvE world, and you find that ok? I dont, but like i said i understand why others do.
    PvP should have nothin to do with PvE, they should really sort that out, take back the rank requirment, past R9 though for a full set.

    Getting 3 is not difficult, more so if you play creep or pvp alot.

    Theres nothin worse than inspecting a captain in PvE land only see he has PvP armour on, same is for any class really, but turbine yet again gimp us into making these sets needed, or expected.

    Pers set is the worst, i thought we but the hele set days behind us :-(
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    PvP armour in a PvE world, and you find that ok? I dont, but like i said i understand why others do.
    PvP should have nothin to do with PvE, they should really sort that out, take back the rank requirment, past R9 though for a full set.

    Getting 3 is not difficult, more so if you play creep or pvp alot.

    Theres nothin worse than inspecting a captain in PvE land only see he has PvP armour on, same is for any class really, but turbine yet again gimp us into making these sets needed, or expected.

    Pers set is the worst, i thought we but the hele set days behind us :-(
    Moors rings are critical to my tactical mit build - banner is well, uber.

    3 Perserverance = extremely high DPS and healing output in LtC, or amazing healing w/ 3 Gallant Commander in HoH.

    To stonewall PvMP gear just because it's PvMP gear is a fairly stupid and naive thing to do.

    That said, I do agree that the audacity armor needs to be better for the 'Moors, and worse for PvE.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Jul 11 2012 at 04:03 AM.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    I understand why cappies get the sets, but its just wrong. PvE raids that i lead (rarely these days), i make sure no one wears PvP sets.
    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    Theres nothin worse than inspecting a captain in PvE land only see he has PvP armour on, same is for any class really, but turbine yet again gimp us into making these sets needed, or expected.
    This is a silly attitude to take. While sure, it's an issue that PvP gear is more desirable in PvE than PvE gear, don't fault the player for using what may be the best options available.
    Beastwise - Captain, R15 | Shock and Awe | Gladden

  23. #23
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    3-set preserverance is OP ( as much as helegrod gear used to be ).
    However , raid bosses (maybe 6-mans as well) are totally different than they used too.
    Tell me one boss in ToO that you may benefit from the 6 sec RC.
    Only exception is acid when adds spawn and MAYBE shadow , just maybe , depending on how you do it.

    There are not that many death events on ToO bosses, and on 6-mans like foundry to make you bother getting the pvp gear to benefit there.You always have to spent 1 death event every min or so on warcry.The mistress days are gone T_T.Sure , it can be good for trash b4 bosses , but give me a break , who can bother ... I believe ToO blue set is still the best for pve/raiding/healing captain . ( the one with WoC inc healing ) It provides more healing ( tactical mastery ) and more might than PvP set, in the cost of very nerfed morale pool and mitigations though.

    As far as the escape of darkness cd.Yes it works , but will you ever need it ??? I doubt it............ Highly....
    If you get so many deaths that causes the 2 minstrels and 2 captains in a raid to run out of resses , then you obviously do something wrong. It just doesnt worth it wasting a full-tiered-up legacy + a class slot for this,you will rarely use it on pve, and you will NEVER use it if you do things right.

    Bottom line , those 2 bonuses are only good for PVP,nowhere else , thats my opinion.

    Now as far as command set is concerned , THAT can actually make a difference , due to set 5, but then again , just maybe.
    Remember that you always sacrifice stats to get those sets built up to 5 since audacity is no good in pve.Perhaps it doesnt worth it bothering with it either.

    PVP sets are definately awesome for pvp , but pve ??? I don't think so..........
    Last edited by BotLike; Jul 11 2012 at 06:06 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quite frankly, I believe captain self stat differences between sets become irrelevant, at least for the DPS and CC heavy encounters of Orthanc. Survivability, pretty much the same.

    Buffs, To Arms, Oathies, Marks are some of the top things that matter, and don't rely on stats. Hence it becomes an issue of deciding whatever set has the best bonus for the raid, including but not limited to the current PvMP selections.
    Last edited by Beastnas; Jul 11 2012 at 07:20 AM.
    Beastwise - Captain, R15 | Shock and Awe | Gladden

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BotLike View Post
    ...
    Tell me one boss in ToO that you may benefit from the 6 sec RC.
    Dont forget that shadows Lament has reduced cooldowns as well. Leading to a notable increase in defeat events and sheer DPS (if traited 5R). Relieving healers so they have more time to work THEIR magic.

    Now as far as command set is concerned , THAT can actually make a difference , due to set 5, but then again , just maybe.
    Remember that you always sacrifice stats to get those sets built up to 5 since audacity is no good in pve.Perhaps it doesnt worth it bothering with it either.

    PVP sets are definately awesome for pvp , but pve ??? I don't think so...
    Chars have, factoring in legacies, relics and traits, the equivalent of about 20 equipment slots.

    Carrying 5 pieces of moors gear means that you have 3.5% less potential stats than with PvE gear. And that is all stats, including those that might not be relevant in a given situation (like common mitigation isnt relevant in a Raid bossfight).

    Compare that with a potential effectivity increase of Rallying cry alone of up to 250%. Some set boni blow any stat increase out of the water.

 

 
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