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Thread: RK for RP?

  1. #1
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    RK for RP?

    So I was thinking about making a RK to RP with on this server, but I heard that the RK is essentially a "lore-breaker," not following the lore in the books. My question is, if I do make an RK, will the lore-police arrest me? I'm probably overreacting, but I'm just checking so I don't have a bunch of trolls stalking me when I log on.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Most roleplayers don't take class into account; however, if you choose to, working the RK combat mechanics (the Force lightning, napalm strikes, et cetera ad nauseum) into roleplay generally doesn't go down well, I feel. Depends on who you RP with.

    I've roleplayed with RKs who pass themselves off as scholars of rune-lore and such, without drawing on the fact that they, according to game mechanics, are capable of utilizing that lore to work arcane pyrotechnics. So as long as combat doesn't get into the picture, I doubt anyone will mind. An RK participating in noncombat RP is no different from any other character class participating.

  3. #3
    Most RPers don't necessarily have the same IC the same as their OOC class. More often than not those wardens that you run instance with is a also humble lumberjack/nightsman ICly and that mini who raids is also a humble mushroom farmer from Hobbiton/bookkeeper in a inn in Dale.

    But if you must incorporate some elements of your OOC gameplay into your RP as a RK, keeping in mind that you don't have health in the game, only morale.

    Hence, all those thunder and fire that you call upon your foes are merely scary tales of all consuming fires and threatening words of curses of lightening that are aimed to demoralized your foes. And, they are aptly named so; "Frozen Epilogue", "Shocking Words", "Ceaseless Argument", "Essay of Exaltation", etc etc.

    So despite of shiny graphic and impressive flashes, technically an RK is just a very powerful story teller/arguer/lawyer/screaming ex-wife with also dabbles in the knowlege of Rune to fortify his tales/arguments to make it more.... encouraging or demoralizing.

    Personally this is how I rationalize playing an RK. For me, all those impressive fire and lightening and ice storm and green aura of goodness are just illusionary, they are make-believes to my foes to scary them away (dps) or to encourage my companions to keep keep fighting (heal), and I achieve this through words and stories and parables and fables, etc etc, that the RK employs. So an RK would be the equivalent of an illusionist in other games, lorewise.

    And lore-keeper, now that's real magic (albeit very much chemical enhanced), with their strange signs that have mysterious powers.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwood View Post
    But if you must incorporate some elements of your OOC gameplay into your RP as a RK, keeping in mind that you don't have health in the game, only morale.

    Hence, all those thunder and fire that you call upon your foes are merely scary tales of all consuming fires and threatening words of curses of lightening that are aimed to demoralized your foes. And, they are aptly named so; "Frozen Epilogue", "Shocking Words", "Ceaseless Argument", "Essay of Exaltation", etc etc.

    So despite of shiny graphic and impressive flashes, technically an RK is just a very powerful story teller/arguer/lawyer/screaming ex-wife with also dabbles in the knowlege of Rune to fortify his tales/arguments to make it more.... encouraging or demoralizing.
    That sort of explanation always falls down because Turbine were inconsistent about spell descriptions and what it is they do. The classic example is that foes would hardly 'Fall to Storm' unless what the RK then hits them with is 'real' lightning.

    Just ignore the game mechanics (morale is a kludge and Turbine haven't been consistent about that, either) and RP it as if it were all 'enchantments', i.e. illusions - but leave out the silly elemental stuff, that's only there to keep the mage fans happy. Why limit imagery to that when words could describe far more?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwood View Post
    So despite of shiny graphic and impressive flashes, technically an RK is just a very powerful story teller/arguer/lawyer/screaming ex-wife with also dabbles in the knowlege of Rune to fortify his tales/arguments to make it more.... encouraging or demoralizing.
    You sir have totally changed my opinion.. runekeepers are not runekeepers for me:

    They start of with a "flurry of words", they may throw in a bit of "chilling retoric", they then move onto the "shocking words" with a barrage of "ceaseless arguments", then they bind you with the "our fates are entwined" , maybe even some "rousing words"... all to hit you with "scathing mockery" throw in some "vivid imagery" to hit you with an "epic conclusion" if that dont work they will then hit you with a "Final Word".. that usually finishes me off, if it doesn't there is an "improved final word"

    It is clear now, rune keepers were based on annoyed women!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwood View Post
    So despite of shiny graphic and impressive flashes, technically an RK is just a very powerful story teller/arguer/lawyer/screaming ex-wife...
    Quote Originally Posted by ToastyGStar View Post
    It is clear now, rune keepers were based on annoyed women!
    Or whiny men.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bofrid View Post
    Or whiny men.
    Men simply cannot attain that high standard so im sorry, men could be runekeepers, but not very good ones!

  8. #8
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    this totally derailed.. but it has made me giggle. +1! -grins-


    but yes.. what "class" you wish to rp is all upto you. just do not expect people to"go along"
    with the.. im a big bad &&& stone tosser who can summon flames from my hands.. lightning from my finger tips and go
    MOAAARRR POWAAAHHHHHH.... UNLIMITED POWAAHHH.. ITS OVER 9000!!!... and that kind of stuff
    (totally doing a bit of a mockery, but ohwell)

    Anyway ive met lots of rpers, guardians.. loremasters.. you name it.. that were hunters.. carpenters... scholars.. fisherman.. farmers etc.

    in RP the sky is the limit litterally.. aslong as you just kinda.. ignore the ingame "skill"mechanics that the class posesses really

    Hope you have fun creating your backstory and maybe se you in rp sometimes

    best of luck ~Nimilanor Mor'gwir~

  9. #9
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    It doesn't pertain to RP, but let me shed some light on the lore of the RK:

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectApproach View Post
    ...The lore of the rune-keeper is not hard to find; one example is here:

    http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdia...he-rune-keeper

    There are many other interviews of Steefel (and maybe Orion too) about the lore. I'll be happy to sum it all up for you.

    Obviously, "magic" is the realm of "Special People" only. But we have to consider, "What is Magic?" and "What is Special?" Grima Wormtongue did not understand how "fire could come from stone," and yet Saruman's gunpowder bomb blew the wall of the Hornburg to pieces. To Grima, this was some strange magic. Galadriel once remarked that the visions that could be seen in her Mirror might be called magic. The men of Dale could speak to and understand thrushes (a class of bird that includes the robin).

    To some, visions in a bowl full of water and stones that can blow walls apart are magical. To others, this is simply part of the natural world. So although the conjurations of rune-keepers may seem magical, they are truly not; they are a natural part of middle earth.

    In that vein, Rune-Keepers were the masters of True-Names. At a time when few men could read or write their own language, rune-keepers could speak, understand, read, and write in many languages. I might be embellishing a little bit, but I suspect that True-Names might be the language of Illuvatar itself; the language of "God." So when a rune-keeper speaks the True-Name of fire, or storm, or cold, or healing, those things are called into existence... in the same way "healing" is called into existence when a minstrel plays songs.

    We can see evidence of this in the Lord of the Rings stories and The Hobbit. Elrond doesn't just give Frodo some Pepto Bismol when he first arrives there; Elrond uses a combination of herbs and "magic" to heal him. Saruman conjures both storm and cold when the fellowship tries to cross the Misty Mountains. It is well known that Gandalf can conjure light and block paths using "magic."

    Your argument might be, "yes, but those were special people, with special powers!" Sure. So Saruman can bring down mountains, but is there no lesser version of electricity than bolts from the sky? Of course there are lesser forms of electricity. The phone I'm using to write this is full of it. The point I'm making is that there are lesser forms of lightning that can be harnessed by less important people. Likewise, maybe RK's or Mini's couldn't heal the wounds of a Morgul blade, but it's not crazy that lesser forms of healing power could be invoked to heal the wounds of, say, a goblin's poisoned arrow.

    In addition, you have to remember that the special status conveyed to Galadriel, Elrond, and Celebrimbor didn't automatically give them the powers they had over foresight, healing, and carving magic doors. They had to learn these things, just like they had to learn to tie their shoes. Of course, Gandalf and Saruman were Istari, and that DID come with some special powers, but there were only 7 Istari, plus Sauron, in Middle Earth. Sauron actually taught Celebrimbor how to make magic rings! But everyone else had to learn their "magical" skills the same way they learned to tie their shoes. Elrond wasn't a healer and a foreseer because he was the President of Rivendell. He was President of Rivendell because he was a wise healer, and had the gift of foresight. Galadriel didn't have a magic bowl of water because she was Princess of Lothlorien. She was gifted with foresight, and that is what resulted in her being the Princess. The attribute of being "special" doesn't give these people their powers. The powers that they learned are what made them "special."

    A great example of a rune-keeper in the lore (and one of the primary inspirations for the class) is Celebrimbor. He crafted the Rings of Power and, with the dwarf Narvi, the Doors of Durin. Carved in stone by a dwarf, set with ithildin by an elf, the door would only open after speaking a password. Isn't that the very essence of what a rune-keeper does? Carve writings in stone that have a physical manifestation in the real world?

    Edit: Oops, yes, there were 5 Istari. Not sure where 7 came from.
    --- AND ---


    This is part of the same thread; it was a discussion on the RK effects, and comparisons to the pre-RK lorebreaker, the Lore-Master.

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectApproach View Post
    1) Why don't Lore-masters have knowledge of true names?
    2) Why are the animations of Rune-keepers so much flashier than that of Lore-masters?

    As to the animations, I can't speak for the developers. I guess their design skills were better when they implemented the RK than when they implemented the LM. Besides, multiple people agree (myself included) that the animations are over-the-top, and we have posted that above already.

    (Note: Many RK skills DO have "runic words" above a mob, or above the RK, or some combination of both... take a look, next time you use Rousing Words. I guess that just wasn't flashy enough for the devs.)

    As to your first point, "Lore" and "Language" are 2 very different things. They intermingle, but "Lore" is history-ish, and "Language" is, well... language-ish. You don't learn Spanish history in Spanish class, and you don't learn to speak Spanish in World History. You might learn some elements of one in the other, but certainly not both at the same time.

    The way I keep it straight in my head is that Lore-masters study ancient history, ancient chemistry, and knowledge of different peoples of Middle Earth.

    Rune-keepers, however, study true-names, which would be more religious in nature. The Hebrews believed that speaking the True Name of God would convey great power. A Catholic exorcism involves speaking the True Name of the demon that possesses a person. Even in pagan folklore, knowing and invoking the True-Name of someone grants some measure of control over that person (the story of Rumplestiltskin is a great example.)

    So, Lore-masters study history, and are more like the stereotype "wizard."

    Rune-keepers study religion and language, and and act more like a stereotype "priest." Although priests are more known for their healing capacity, "battle priests" do exist in many other RPG's.


    Yeah, I just quoted myself TWICE. That's how I do.

    Last edited by PerfectApproach; Jun 21 2012 at 09:52 AM.
    [CENTER]While you burn at the stake, I dance with the flames. I take what you love and leave you in tears. I am relentless, unpredictable, and waiting for your last breath.
    [/CENTER]

  10. #10
    That was one awsome read.

    thank you, PerfectApproach

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectApproach View Post
    Yeah, I just quoted myself TWICE. That's how I do.

    You just posted two great big loads of bunkum. That's how you do

    Got to love it when someone mentions Jeff Steefel quotes about the RK and then doesn't mention the one where he says there's no lore to it, that it's just something you have to have in a game.

    True names? Not in this fantasy. That's A Wizard of Earthsea et al.

    Saruman bringing down mountains and conjuring storms? Movie moment!

    Galadriel and Elrond were powerful because they were very special people. It wasn't just because of what they'd learned, it was because they both had some very fancy ancestry. Power is innate, in Tolkien's work. It's not to be had by learning alone, learning just lets them apply it better.

    And oh yes, Celebrimbor. Some inspiration for RKs given that he had no use for runes, he was a Noldo. The inscription on the Doors of Durin isn't even runic (the Tengwar isn't a runic alphabet, it replaced runes - and not because it was magic but because it was a more elegant way to write!). The Dwarf-door in The Hobbit didn't have runes on it, nor were words involved. The link between that stuff and runes is utterly bogus.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post

    You just posted two great big loads of bunkum. That's how you do

    Got to love it when someone mentions Jeff Steefel quotes about the RK and then doesn't mention the one where he says there's no lore to it, that it's just something you have to have in a game.

    True names? Not in this fantasy. That's A Wizard of Earthsea et al.

    Saruman bringing down mountains and conjuring storms? Movie moment!

    Galadriel and Elrond were powerful because they were very special people. It wasn't just because of what they'd learned, it was because they both had some very fancy ancestry. Power is innate, in Tolkien's work. It's not to be had by learning alone, learning just lets them apply it better.

    And oh yes, Celebrimbor. Some inspiration for RKs given that he had no use for runes, he was a Noldo. The inscription on the Doors of Durin isn't even runic (the Tengwar isn't a runic alphabet, it replaced runes - and not because it was magic but because it was a more elegant way to write!). The Dwarf-door in The Hobbit didn't have runes on it, nor were words involved. The link between that stuff and runes is utterly bogus.

    Troll
    There's always one in every thread.
    [CENTER]While you burn at the stake, I dance with the flames. I take what you love and leave you in tears. I am relentless, unpredictable, and waiting for your last breath.
    [/CENTER]

  13. #13
    I think if you do take class into account, it's best to only use the RK abilities subtly. That's how it really is for any kind of 'magic' in Tolkien's universe anyway. Stirring speeches or arguments or even very slightly luminous stones that may or may not ward off wights and such could work, I think. It's just blasting lightening and the other shiny stuff that really grinds people's gears.

  14. #14
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    Oh that's right, PerfectApproach, scream 'Troll!' because someone disagrees with you.

    Let me make it really simple for you: don't make stuff up, borrow concepts from other fantasies or reference scenes from the movies and then try to call any of it 'lore'.

 

 

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