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Thread: Captain Tanking

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00CloughRN View Post
    Yay, just tanked the first 3 wings of Orthanc, including tanking various trash, the Frost boss, and successfully tank swapped with our Guardian on Lightning. I force taunted Kalbak whenever they came up, as you can force taunt for about 30s out of 50s if you do it right, so you can keep both tanks shocks low enough.

    Gear still has a little way to go, I think it was a bit tricker than usual for our healers, but still I'm pretty chuffed.
    Welcome to the club, brother! Got wings 1-4 T1 under my own belt several weeks back when the kin warden threw me a bone and let me hold the Acid, Lightning, and Shadow bosses. Makes you feel pretty good about captains.

    Btw, how did you force taunt for 30s? Composure ToN? Or do you mean non-consecutive?
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  2. #27
    Yeah non-consecutive, I went,

    Grave wound 10s
    Routing cry 10s
    Guardian aggro 5s
    Grave Wound 10s
    Guardian aggro 15s
    repeat

    Which is 30s every 50s. (I do have GW cooldown). At this point you have aggro more often than you need, but this gives the guard a buffer in case you get resisted.

    Out of interest, when you raid as a tank, do you go with the 2 tanks in the same group, or in different ones?
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00CloughRN View Post
    Routing cry 10s

    Which is 30s every 50s. (I do have GW cooldown). At this point you have aggro more often than you need, but this gives the guard a buffer in case you get resisted.
    Interesting.

    Don't know how much folks have thought about it, but the Moors perseverence set will take Routing Cry cooldown from 45s to 36s, which might be useful sometimes...

  4. #29
    Well, you could have a 77s rotation with.

    GW 10s
    RC 10s
    ... 5s
    GW 10s
    ... 7s
    RC 10s
    GW 10s
    ...15s

    So you go from 60% of the time forced aggro to 65%. tbh I can't see it being useful enough to justify dropping 3 pieces of the tanking set.

    I'm wondering if this would work.
    Grave wound 10s
    Guardian Challenge 13s
    Routing cry 10s
    Grave Wound 10s
    Guardian Challenge 13s
    Engage + Threat skills 7s
    repeat

    This should give you constant forced aggro, with the exception of the last 7s where the tank uses engage to get the top of the aggro. Then hits the highest threat skills they have available. You then have challenge the darkness (guard) + CompTON (cpt) for resists. Alas it's probably to tricky to pull of, but would allow the DPS to ignore threat on a single target boss fight such as lightning, and Threat seems to be the barrier to max DPS.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  5. #30
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    3-Perseverance is probably worth it while tanking trash. What damage you take from decreased survivability, you'd make up in increased Rallying Cries, assuming the trash is dropping. Oh, and quicker Routing Cry.

    Quote Originally Posted by 00CloughRN View Post
    Out of interest, when you raid as a tank, do you go with the 2 tanks in the same group, or in different ones?
    I've done both. For F&F bosses, generally we split up. Trash, I've run in the same group as the other tank just to put ShBro on him and free the other capt(s) up to do BladeBro. But then you run into the problem of a warden leeching off you, which can be bad. All in all, I'd say no just put it on your healer, due to fellowship wide threat leeches (I guess Whirling Retaliation with 10m radius is no problem; Conviction with 25m radius is).

    In your force aggro swapping situation for Lightning, sure stack up with the tank if your healers are ok with that. I've only ever single tanked it. I tried to swap aggro with a guard before, but I screwed it up by not noticing Noble Mark got resisted at the beginning. Then we just had the guard single tank it.
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  6. #31
    After fellowship brother I never went back to the yellow line again, but after reading this thread I have been giving it some serious thought. I ran a t2 foundry yesterday and the guard was in terrible op gear including some Moira gear. I found myself pulling aggro in LtC and ended up tanking the second boss most of the fight because the tank got knocked into the walls, multiple times. Even in LtC with 0 incoming healing and no mitigations to speak of I tanked ok, put up a quick shield brother on someone to get SoW up on myself and the mini had no problem at all keeping me up. I'm thinking about seriously building a tank set now. I'm going to get the LL tank jewellery as well as the crafted pieces. My question for you guys is what you would advise for the armor set. I could save up and get the ToO raid set but I would rather get the purple set so I can tank as I save up for the raid set. I havent looked at totals yet on the purple set to see if it's worth getting or not, I'm just chomping at the bit now to try my hand at tanking. I guess the question is how serviceable the purple set would be, I plan on tanking 6 mans for now but maybe ToO once I get the hang of the captain tank.
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  7. #32
    Well what I did was go with the Draigoch set, and upgrade to the Tognir set as I unlocked/could afford pieces.

    It's quite nice as the 2 cheapest pieces of Orthanc replace possibly the 2 most meh pieces of the draigoch set from a tanking perspective. I had a 3rd piece before I started tanking foundry, but I was missing the limlight jewellery at that point.

    There are 2 reasons why I wouldn't bother with the Instance set.
    a) I don't think it is worth it if you are going to go onto the Tognir set to spend seals on the leaders armour, I'd rather get my first piece there.
    b) Bits of the Draigoch set is nice for tanking, might is good for Physical Mitigation, Parry and Block, which is all important as a tank. The draigoch set all has a good helping of might.

    The big thing you didn't mention is your LI. There aren't that many tanking legacies, and so there is a lot of cross over with a healing/DPS set. But the relics you slot I suspect are very different. I'm getting a huge chunk of incoming healing from my relics.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigTimeTimmyJim View Post
    My question for you guys is what you would advise for the armor set. I could save up and get the ToO raid set but I would rather get the purple set so I can tank as I save up for the raid set. I havent looked at totals yet on the purple set to see if it's worth getting or not, I'm just chomping at the bit now to try my hand at tanking. I guess the question is how serviceable the purple set would be, I plan on tanking 6 mans for now but maybe ToO once I get the hang of the captain tank.
    I tanked all the 3mans/foundry/draigoch before I got the full Tognir set. Most of my gear was crafted (0 tanking jewelry pieces from skirmishes) and I could get over 14k morale buffed and a very decent block rating. I believe now you can go even higher thanks to the Great River barter items and purple/teal drops from RoF (the purple earings with high vitality you can even buy on AH).

    The shoulder piece from Dargnach T2 has very high incoming healing;

    The teal cloak from Pits T2 (300 morale, 1.5k tactical and physical mitigation) is great;

    Dedicated tanking LIs make a difference too (mostly due to relics focusing at block, incoming healing and icpr which a captain tank needs a lot).
    Ishtarien - Captain
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  9. #34
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    Question about choice of armour.

    Hi everyone, I must say I think this is a great thread and that im very impressed that you managed to tank everything you've written! My question is: which armour set pieces do you use? As I understood it you use Tognir armour pieces, but may I ask which and how many of those?

  10. #35
    I think ideally you want a full set. The way I built it up was as follows;
    I dislike draigoch, so I got the shoulders and helm first.
    Then I got the gauntlets as they were cheaper.
    Then the leggings as I hadn't completed saruman.
    Then the 2 remaining pieces.

    If you just wanted to tank the foundry/3 mans, I'd suggest just 3 pieces (as you won't need to sacrifice as much DPS to survive) in which case I'd go helm, shoulders and boots, as it gives you a health dose of tanking stats without hitting your might as badly.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakiami View Post
    I don't think it matters when you do this - and TS is faster, so I'd hit it first.

    Numbers made up:
    Code:
    Skill    RawThreat      Perceived Threat
    TS       50             50
    CA       60             60
    GW       70             77
    
    or .. 
    Skill    RawThreat      Perceived Threat
    CA       10             10
    GW       20             22
    TS       70             77
    Total threat after using those three skills is the same no matter the order (as long as you don't GW before CA..).
    Are you sure these numbers are correct? The way I see it for the first scenario, when you use GW, your perceived threat is increased for the skills that you use from that point on, but not the previous threat you've build before using it. So instead of ending up with 77 perceived Threat, it would be 50 + 10 + 10 * 1.1 = 71.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldelcar View Post
    Are you sure these numbers are correct? The way I see it for the first scenario, when you use GW, your perceived threat is increased for the skills that you use from that point on, but not the previous threat you've build before using it. So instead of ending up with 77 perceived Threat, it would be 50 + 10 + 10 * 1.1 = 71.
    No, perceived threat is your instantaneous modifier for your total threat. Thats why if a Guard in threat stance swaps to block stance, he's liable to lose the aggro right then and there, because he's lost his ~28% threat multiplier.
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    No, perceived threat is your instantaneous modifier for your total threat. Thats why if a Guard in threat stance swaps to block stance, he's liable to lose the aggro right then and there, because he's lost his ~28% threat multiplier.
    Wow, didn't know that. So when you lose the GW perceived threat bonus, you are actually losing threat on the mob?
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rNA52C7.jpg[/IMG]

    Waaha R10 Reaver, Tardleader R9 War-Leader, Wargtard R7 Warg
    Fellagund R5 Warden, Eldelcar R4 Lore-Master, Cadwolf R3 Captain, Eldelband R2 Minstrel

  14. #39
    Indeed the big thing the GW cool-down gives you, is it makes it that much easier to keep aggressive stance up.
    “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldelcar View Post
    Wow, didn't know that. So when you lose the GW perceived threat bonus, you are actually losing threat on the mob?
    If you lose the bonus you have the potential to lose agro... Meaning the mob will switch targets to someone else.

    If the threat table is such... And I'm assuming you have noble mark on the mob:
    Captain 10k threat. no pt modifiers.
    Hunter 12k threat. -10% perceived threat from noble mark makes perceived threat = 90% (.9)

    Mob sees Hunter's PT is (12k *.9) Which is 10.8k.
    Captain is still 10k, but uses gw to apply aggressive stance, which bumps him up to (10k * 1.1) 11k, and gets agro. This only lasts while aggressive stance is active, of course.
    .
    85 (Captain, Champion, Guardian)

  16. #41
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    Aggressive stance?

    I might have misunderstood, but what to you guys mean with aggrostance? i know we dont have one with that name, so is it a "nickname" for some skill or?
    Thanks in advance! :-)

  17. #42
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    When you use Cutting Attack on a target and then use Grave Wound on the same target, it applies a buff to the Captain called "Aggressive Stance" that gives +10% perceived threat. It's not a stance in the sense of something we can toggle, like some other classes have, but "Aggressive Stance" is the name given to the buff in game.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  18. #43
    I had seen this thread ages ago and thought it may be interesting to try gearing my Captain as a tank. My main is a Guard so I do not really need a tank but I thought it would be a fun project with the class.

    Sadly due to the lack of crafted tank Jewlery I am finding it impossible to get to even 13K Morale. (12.7 presently)
    Anyone have a tank spec running and care to share their unbuffed stats?

    Presently:

    B: 5121 / 13.2
    P: 4400 / 11.6
    E: 3688 / 9.9

    PM: 63.8%
    TM: 61.3%

    Holes in the gear (Items that are not actual Tank items):

    Both earrings, one ring and both bracelets. Looking at gear to replace these my morale will DROP not increase as my B/P/E improves with actual tank items from Instances/Skraids.
    Last edited by Brycht; Dec 11 2012 at 08:11 AM.
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  19. #44
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    IIRC, ~11k morale was the maximum I managed to get at level 75. Level 85 gear doesn't have that much more of any one stat on it, so I'm not surprised you're topping out at 13k.

    I'm not sure what rings or bracelets are good at level 85, but you'll certainly be happy about the gold tier earrings to be released with the new instance cluster!

    I'm curious, though, what armour are you wearing? Crafted or Hytbold Leader?
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  20. #45
    I am wearing the Hytbold Leader set other than the Helm which is a Horse Lords 119 VIT/MIT which is a nice all around helm for all three trait lines.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d216000000072008/signature.png]Brycht[/charsig]

  21. #46
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    I wish I saved my top morale build, I know I was over 19K and I think I got 20K with help of other class buffs. Granted I researched this quite a bit and had top morale everything (jewelry, gear, morale draigoch cloak, legendary items with morale relics, etc...) Wish I took a screen shot. The only screen shot I have is at 17.4 K morale at level 75



    I am in the process of developing a tanking build right now. The new earrings should excite tanking captains. I think at level 85 a top tanking build would be at 16-17K. Anything higher then that might will be nerfed which will hurt your blocking %. The problem with captains is holding any type of aggro with any decent DPS class.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by discodanman45 View Post
    I am in the process of developing a tanking build right now. The new earrings should excite tanking captains. I think at level 85 a top tanking build would be at 16-17K. Anything higher then that might will be nerfed which will hurt your blocking %. The problem with captains is holding any type of aggro with any decent DPS class.
    Aren't the potential changes to critical avoidance also an issue? I didn't think captains could generate too much critical defense.
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bezmer View Post
    Aren't the potential changes to critical avoidance also an issue? I didn't think captains could generate too much critical defense.
    There are also other issues as well, we are not designed to main tank. Six man's in the past are always possible, RoF and Foundry from 75 could be main tanked by captains. However, raids at T2 have never been possible for captain's to tank. Maybe lightening in ToO T2 could have been done.

  24. #49
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    One night doing Thorog with the kin, we didn't have a second tank to hold the gaunt lord while the Warden was kiting his clones. It was down to either me on my Warden or my Captain (or a champ in the group with tank gear). I decided I wanted to try out my Captain.

    I was sturdy enough for the gaunt lord, but aggro was an issue. The raid group's DPS guys hit hard and are used to going balls out from the get-go. Like if I were on my warden, they coulda started nuking after my first move. My Captain had to be babied--provoke spam, Ebbs, a little breathing room. It was not cool. Threat gen too low. Traited 5y/1r/1b I think, maybe 2b.

    Ended up powering through it, slowly as the DPS stepped back a bit (but that's not ideal). When Thorog came down, the Warden who was kiting clones maintanked as expected. I was supposed to make sure I was 2nd on the threat list for the times when Thorog temporarily turns the tank's perceived threat multiplier to 0 (not totally necessary as our DPS can usually handle 10 seconds of Thorog, but we try to play with good form). With Noble Mark up and TS spam and maybe an SL here and there but probably RCs & WCs, I fell short of that. Had to save GW of course but that wouldn't have been a game changer. I ended up just force taunting when he did his temp threat wipe on the warden. I was not amused.

    I've seen similar things in Giants. Warden stayed back to kite the ice dudes and my Warden couldnt roll on loot so I volunteered Arg to tank ol' boots. I needed provokes and ebbs, and that's OK thats par for the course with tanks in raids, but on top of that I needed a little space before DPS started smacking him. That ain't good. I was just fine with aggro after the DPS turned away from the boss and onto the 1st wave of adds but still. I've been saying this for half a year, we need a threat leech. Every other tank can steal threat in some manner. I used to tank foundry pugs just fine before people got ubergeared with first ages, then it got hard to hold threat; and of course hytbold/skraid gear puts them right back on that level.

    Tanked Iobar's peak in BR just fine, though. Not with the strongest DPS I've seen.
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  25. #50
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    Been working on gathering tank gear (and the Hytbold Leader set), and I project we're going to end up in the 16k - 18k morale range, with a few of us maybe breaking 20k. Since we're a really squishy tank comparatively, that morale seems low.

    How well would a threat transfer from Inspire work with Captain tanking?
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

 

 
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