you have no idea why I am leaving the server, you don't play anymore and when you did you never spoke to me, so please don't presume to know why I am leaving.
If cheating was the reason then I could have left when creeps were killing Freeps in GV, or when Creeps were taking advantage of spawn bugs and killing Freeps in their own spawn, or in any of the time you were taking advantage of bugged pots, or when Creeps were creating Freaver trains to farm Lootboxes.
What BD have or have not done has little bearing on why I am leaving, if you want to find reason in why I am leaving I would look closer to your so called innocent Creepside, its attitude and arrogance to new creeps and experienced freeps who want to try the dark side, and from some of them, the sheer animosity to Freeps who are simply playing the game (without using any form of cheating, botting, clubbing, spying).
You seriously think BD are the only ones guilty of Griefing, they are amateurs compared to what Creeps can do in this regard, at least BD let you know who they are when they grief you, rather than the anonymous Lvl 3 Freeps who logs on, griefs you then deletes his char, or the constant posts on forums by creeps who wont say who they are.
Seriously Stoff, you have no idea why I am leaving, so please keep your biased, Creepgoggled opinion to yourself.
I dont hug, I keep my distance, about 40m.
Buh bye. Enjoy where ever you go to avoid us oh so evil creeps.......oh hold on , there is a whole load of new creeps to blame for everything where you are going. Have fun.
I did not say I was leaving because of the cheats, as I said in the post I would have left long ago as cheating has been going on from both sides since PvP started, the difference is Creeps will never admit that it happens creepside, but the list of cheats I put above proves it does, and I also never said I was leaving for the griefing, I know certain freeps log Creeps and give it out, all I said is Creeps also log freeps and do it, the BIG difference is YOU know the Freeps that do it (mostly), whereas ALL the griefing I have received have been by those cowardly Creeps that do it via an anonymous Lvl 3 Freep who they immiediately delete.
As I said Romp, I have never botted, clubbed, logged to Creep to abuse somebody, and to my knowledge never deliberately exploited, My post did not lay the blame for everything at the hands of all Creeps, but I can only say it from what has happened to me. In all my time playing the game I have only ever put 2 freeps on ignore, whereas on Creeps within 4 days of playing my BA I had put 3 on ignore because of comments they made directly at me. I do not blame all Creeps, but I do blame you all for believing the server is bad as a result of one kin or one side, if you honestly believe that Freeps are the only ones capable of griefing and cheating, you are sadly mistaken. Lets look at one single fact with clubbing, the first rank 15 clubbed char was a Creep.
As I said to Stoff, I havn`t left because of cheating, ( I would be naïve to believe these things don't happen on other servers) I have left for a myriad of reasons, my post was aimed at Stoff having no idea and yet claiming he knew why (as always).
Lastly romp, they are not my Clubbers, and if ppl cheat it has nothing to do with me, I cannot stop it, I can avoid it, as I have done over the last 9 months
I dont hug, I keep my distance, about 40m.
Just wanted to wish best of luck to all who are leaving, gl and HAPPY gaming!
On my opinion why many may be leaving:
- The high hate levels the sides have for eachother. With Creeps calling freeps easymoders, and freeps saying creeps can't play etc. Our server is relativily small and I'm sure many of us have some personal scores to settle with people from the other side, for killing us at a bad time, maybe over and over again? Trolling in globallff and OOC, and clubbing (no matter what side) add to this. I don't know about you but Lotro is a hobby for fun, and when so much negativity is involved, people feel less happy to log in and the action gets less fun too. And honestly I think most people want a fresh start, something new, somewhere new, maybe with some friends or just something completely different...
Just my opnion, don't take it too seriously.
Eredthelion ~ R9 Warden ~ Officer of Invicta
Burzobtrosh ~ R9 Warleader ~ Member of Rogues Gallery
I think there's truth in what you say. Power corrupts. Tolkien dealt with that idea in LOTR. The stronger side can suffer from 'might makes right' philosophy. But the weaker side can develop the downtrodden perspective that makes it more difficult for your average person to want to adhere to some standard of fairness....when everything else seems stacked against them. We recently had someone turn a 4th outpost blue and there was a chorus of folks asking if it had really been necessary and in general speaking against adding a 'further advantage'. This is in spite of the general practice followed by the other side of routinely turning all OPs red when the numbers advantage favors them. Inequities in power distribution bring about moral choices and challenges on both sides.
The large number of people that play both sides on a daily basis makes comparisons like this difficult as well. Their practices tend to be consistent regardless of which side they switch to. And while some play Orcs and Beasts and others Free Peoples, I've met excellent people on both sides and morally bankrupt people on both sides. Sadly, it tends to be the 'catalysts' and leaders who tend to set the tone for the practices of their faction on their server. Sometimes it works for the best and sometimes it degrades the situation. Without aggressive pursuit of gentleman's agreements, you'll often revert to 'All's fair in love and war' and 'War is Hell'....and anything goes.
It is an unrivaled feeling of superiority in intellect and in importance as a human being when you can tab out after dying and tab back in to see the same derpy kid corpse jumping you that was corpse jumping before you tabbed out.
Freeps, please, my ego does not need your assistance to maintain its offensively large size.
As I don't generally agree with that notion, especially in an MMO, I don't think that is what I was trying to say. Perhaps I rambled a bit and was unclear.
No. I don't view them as completely subjective...not in most cases. Good and bad in my view tends to rest solely along the lines of the Golden Rule and whether or not an action infringes upon the rights of another. I might see more room for subjectivity in a pvp game environment though.
Still, the players I respect and like running with tend to have a desire for 'good fights' over contests that provide little effort, get no special satisfaction from 'killing a lowbie/newbie 10 times in a row', 'rarely' if at all resort to corpse-jumping as a form of celebration, abhor gaining renown/infamy through 'farming', and in general restrict themselves from doing many things that would fall within Turbine's game mechanics and community guidelines. Retribution sometimes blurs those lines a bit.
I think they get blurred more when there's a real perceived imbalance. An uneven playing field leads to negativity, as pointed out by Eredthelion:
"The high hate levels the sides have for eachother. With Creeps calling freeps easymoders, and freeps saying creeps can't play etc. ... I'm sure many of us have some personal scores to settle with people from the other side, for killing us at a bad time, maybe over and over again? Trolling in globallff and OOC, and clubbing (no matter what side) add to this."
It's difficult to maintain or achieve a 'respected adversary' environment and have any 'gentleman's agreements' under such circumstances.
You totally missed the point I was making, probably cause your freep googles and anti-creep mentality are set to level 11 and the dial has fallen off. I never said you were leaving for any reason, your reasons are your reasons. I'm just highlighting how if there is ever a problem and it gets highlighted, you then ether claim the creeps did it first or do it even bigger and badder. You even go on to mention the first rank 15 clubbier was a creep...... A creep from another server but somehow you are tying that blame in with all creeps. Nothing to do with this server tho is it.
You also claim we deny any wrong doing on creep side, wrong again not even a month ago it was being discussed on here how we outed a certain mini who was using multi BAs, multi defilers and freevers and how we gave them abuse to go away and would alienate them. Seemed to work after a while too. Yet you guys still welcome your versions into raids, raids even the oh so saintly you are in. Wow double standards rear their head once again. Shock! Nah I'm not shocked one bit.
Oh look out your window will you..............is it raining??? Haha we did that, muhahahahaha!
Badjuanra R12 (BA), Adbulhassan R9 (STK), Fatjuanra R9 (WL)
I don't claim Creeps do it first, I claim some Creeps are as guilty of cheating as some Freeps, its just that Freeps get the blame for everything, I don't recall you telling Creeps to stop using Freever Trains to farm lootboxes, or for them or yourself to stop using the bugged pots, did you alienate the Wargs who were inside blue spawns killing retreating Freeps for weeks, did you alienate your 3 Reaver brethren that were killing freeps in GV. No you didn't,
so yes, lets talk about double standards.
I dont hug, I keep my distance, about 40m.
Reapor, this argument is quite futile as it assumes that the two sides are mutually exclusive and that there are no overlaps of players between them. While each side may have their core bunches who only identify with and spend 75%+ of their time on one side, there is still a considerable exchange of players, of ideas and of knowledge. If one side exploits then it's only a matter of time before the other side catches on and the opportunists of that side decide to take advantage of it.
Creeps are by no means innocent of exploiting, though the fact of the matter is this: I, and all the remaining creep leaders I know of, do not accept botters or exploiters into their raids... It simply doesn't happen. Not one of the remaining creep tribes accepts them either.
The concept of cheating is still resented by the wider creep population and so long as I hold any influence among creeps, it will be. Creeps seem just to be less open to cheating than freeps. Why? I do not know. I understand that you've seen botting and lootbox farming occurring on creepside, but you have never once seen a well-known creep leader taking bots into his/her raid. You've never seen a well-known creep using bots to take Delving bosses. You've never seen a collection of creeps all from the same tribe on the leaderboards day after day with 30k+ infamy gain. The creeps you see exploiting are either a minority of opportunists, or are some barely active, almost unknown players that find themselves tribeless.
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