Ongoing Ettenmoors Discussion

[Beraine]

It certainly was fun at the end of the night but we ran out of tyrants :-)

Totally agree regards the clubbers Viriel, name and shame is all we can do really.

[grapez]

Apologies for responding a bit late, but I don't read this forum very much..

Succeeding in killing someone just because you can press a bunch of 'you may not use any skills at all' buttons (chainsilence, chainstun) is something I find fairly irritating. These skills simply obviate the need for skilled play.

Aren't they? There's hardly any burgs and LMs in the moors these days, and while RKs can stun, I am not really aware of them doing so exclusively and repeatedly.. Of wargs, otoh, there are quite a few. (I am not sure why I should care that wargs are even more obnoxious on other servers: Should I feel grateful?)
Furthermore, while it's all well and good to note that other classes exist that possess comparable skills, it seems to me that if those classes hardly ever behave the same way, this matters. As such, I'm not sure things even out as easily as you here try to suggest.


And hunters *are* built for it? What makes wargs special? If DF can be blocked in combat without devs caring about hunters dying a lot, so should sprint.

A faceroll class aka warden QQ'ing about wargs? May i suggest deleting your class? You can start a warg instead and taste freep cc since you think warg cc is so OP.
Last post from me to you since you seem like a hater to me.
But ofc;

Haters gonna hate.

[Oldwiley]

Apologies for responding a bit late, but I don't read this forum very much..

Thats quite alright me old china:

I can understand people getting annoyed with being nuked by warg packs by suprise, but have never understood the blind hatred or resentment it generates. Its pretty easy to call any class lame: There's always a way to justify it.

Succeeding in killing someone just because you can press a bunch of 'you may not use any skills at all' buttons (chainsilence, chainstun) is something I find fairly irritating. These skills simply obviate the need for skilled play.

Fair enough you find that irritating, but I think anyone playing any class being nuked by 7 toons while cc'd by them, which will happen pretty much no matter what is attacking you, is probably as annoying for that victim as wargs are for you. Even my reaver, the toughest of my creeps, is pretty much doomed if it gets attacked by an organised group, which is what a warg pack is basicly. Those you may not use any skills at all buttons are prevalent on a number of classes and trust me they all land on me.

You personally opened up on my reaver with an ambush recently. Were you rolling with tears that you had cc'd me and kicked off those bleeds and slow before I could charge?

When a burg/champ/champ/mini/etc stuns a warg and a lm drops a lotrd on the warg shortly after, in those few seconds the warg gets nuked, the warg is not immune to the 'you may not use any skills at all' it just dies quicker. CC is prevalent and effects everybody. What is different is if you play a toon who is more survivable; So that the initial burst does not kill you. Seriously if you resent CC, I am speachless to what you think creeps have endured for years. God bless diminishing returns and audacity cc reduction.

Ok each to their own for sure, but wargs are no less likely to chainstun than burgs, loremasters or runekeepers, and there's plenty of cc swimming around on creep and freep side alike. Any group of 7 of anything is gonna nuke a solo and most likely cc it to death. If anything Gilrain has fewer "large" wargpacks than other servers.

Aren't they? There's hardly any burgs and LMs in the moors these days, and while RKs can stun, I am not really aware of them doing so exclusively and repeatedly..

All freeps can CC and in combination its still a chainstun. There are more loremasters than you imply and yup, less burgs these days, most are playing their minstrels in raids instead. This must be because minstrels are more skillful than burgs, not that burgs got nerfed.

I am going to assume, given your comment about rune keepers that you have never tried to creep against one. Not only do they stun and slow, but they can passively chain stun you each time you hit them just for kicks.

Trust me burgs chainstun whenever they can and as for loremasters >.< They take a break from CC long enough to pop a stacking bleed or debuff on you, bit like wargs do when they hit you with claws or debuff you. Oh that is when loremasters are not spam healing themselves, which those wargs cannot lol.

Of wargs, otoh, there are quite a few. (I am not sure why I should care that wargs are even more obnoxious on other servers: Should I feel grateful?)
Furthermore, while it's all well and good to note that other classes exist that possess comparable skills, it seems to me that if those classes hardly ever behave the same way, this matters. As such, I'm not sure things even out as easily as you here try to suggest.

No my observation was that on other servers warg pack nukes are more common, I don't seek your gratitude. Remember there are six creep types, not nine; there will be a higher proportion of them by definition. Out of interest spiders and defilers are up, wargs are down.

Now just to be clear, you don't see other classes who use cc in a group to nuke down a target. Creeps are not held helpless while nuked or are not feared and slowed/bled incurably/stunned routinely as part of being killed:P ok, thats a gem.

If you mean hit and run, then fomerly more populous burgs did this. If burgs got a buff the moors would again be crawling with them doing the same all over. If you meant spawncamping, you know that hunters used to hang around spawn and nuke targets in 3 shots, very skillful, d/fing if they got tracked or spotted?

But more importantly there is not any real difference in a rk, mini, champ, cappie, hunter and tank and lm nuking a target and then using heals, shield walls, last stands, sprints, spike heals on the move, hots, stun immunites, roots, bubbles etc etc to then get to a place of safety like lug backdoor or whatever.

Because if you are implying there is a huge amount of skill in using the extreme skills any class has then my word you over rate this game. Because pressing a few buttons, even if they are not labelled sprint is not academy level stuff. People are just using the options available to them to do the same thing, defiant challenge anyone? It requires a degree of competance for sure to coordinate a team.

What most folks dislike about wargs is their ability to flee the scene of a crime, kk I an relate to that, but then again they are not built to take punishment, in the absence of this other toons adopt tactics that are equally predictable or irritating. I'm not "proud" of playing warg, but belittling it makes little sense, it takes a degree of competence to get the most out of like all the toons.

And hunters *are* built for it? What makes wargs special? If DF can be blocked in combat without devs caring about hunters dying a lot, so should sprint.

Did you play when hunters could d/f? Because it was an if I am attacked I can pop to the graveyard immediately to avoid death skill.
There is no offensive use for this skill, unlike sprint. Sprint does not remove you from the map. You can be interrrupted by cc and killed, you can be found elsewhere, possibly bleeding and unable to stealth and killed, or followed on horse, tracked and pursued.

At no point during my post did I claim hunters to be easier, or harder to play than wargs. It made for an interesting choice for comparison rather than your own class.

Hunters have one thing wargs don't; extreme ranged damage. Having d/f as well was ridiclous. You know that a lot of wargs die.. a lot; if wargs had d/f as well, I'd just be agreeing with you. Sprint is a very powerful tool.

So to summarise:
In order for skill to be present, wargs should gain back morale for each hit they make, a limited time avoid all damage skill (dodgem doggie) should be added, a full heal on hips, rising evade for skill combos, an auto knockdown on tendon shred, lose pounce and sprint and silence, but gain a dot fear and ranged goblin javelin thrower on their back that never runs out of javelins, an immunity to stun skill combo and a serious increase in their incurable bleeds, flayer mitigations in shadow, oh and a straight increase in non-positional damage.

That would be fine then.

Or they could just put bad wardens of angmar against good wardens of bree and remove all the other toons maybe? We'd all be "highly skilled", if not even more bored than we are now.

Cya out there. I like the word obviate. Ungulate is also a good word.

[rannion]

A faceroll class aka warden QQ'ing about wargs? May i suggest deleting your class? You can start a warg instead and taste freep cc since you think warg cc is so OP.
Last post from me to you since you seem like a hater to me.
But ofc;

Haters gonna hate.

Sure you may suggest that; but no, even if I would stay away from the moors, I still wouldn't roll a warg, and not because "I think they're OP". Learn to read. What I think is abusive is not using a stun once or twice during a longer fight, but relying on stuns to get your kills.. Guess the difference is too subtle for some, or perhaps you've just lost sight of that fact.

Anyway, feel free to "ignore" me, as the content of your replies seems to suggest to me that you're not reading too closely anyway, it would at least save me the effort of having to correct you again and again.

[Makawulf]

but relying on stuns to get your kills..

Funny when it comes to wardens whos relying on their bleed damages (pew pew from sides and let him die from bleeds...if they attack me simply draw morale till help comes )....and also since you wouldnt roll a warg what would you know about playing a warg...if you gonna judge sth atleast learn sth about it, but not just what you heard or read from others!

A wise man once said!
''It is important to draw wisdom from different places. If you take it from only one place it become rigid and stale.Understanding others,will help you become whole.''

P.S: im not judging wardens play style...it's how they created...but first try play a warg and get your own idea!!!

[Rywarden]

Hey guys, I'm not sure if the clubber RK will ever decide to do some real pvp, but I'm not going to throw even one heal at him. I hope people will follow because he's just a disgrace. I think the clubber reaver is him also and need to be taken in the same way. Sadly we can do only that. That was one of the advantages Coddies had over Turbine.


Btw. Holddoc you are the Mad Max of our PvP . Pleasure to fight against you

That was very good of you last night, and a very good idea to never heal... We managed to get the kill then he buggered off lol.

Should make a thread "naming and shaming" all the clubbers. Think someone mentioned it last night in OOC.

Was great action last night sending 2 Tyrants into TA.

Cya in the moors!

[Juanra]

Sure you may suggest that; but no, even if I would stay away from the moors, I still wouldn't roll a warg, and not because "I think they're OP". Learn to read. What I think is abusive is not using a stun once or twice during a longer fight, but relying on stuns to get your kills.. Guess the difference is too subtle for some, or perhaps you've just lost sight of that fact.

Anyway, feel free to "ignore" me, as the content of your replies seems to suggest to me that you're not reading too closely anyway, it would at least save me the effort of having to correct you again and again.

Abusive use of CC? With all the audacity, pots and brands we have right now in EM. Are you seriously complaining about sprint while your class have Defiant Challenge and Never Surrender, loads of morale, self heals, tons of mitigations, no inductions and can put bleeds from 40m that can outdps the out of combat regeneration of creeps?

Not sure if you are trolling tbh.

[Squelcher]

So I was fighting a warden, and he stabbed me with a spear.

This is obnoxious and an abusive use of skills.

[Eryolan]

he stabbed me with a spear.

Someone call in a paramedic! :P

[Elasto]

Someone call in a paramedic! :P

Never fear Strepsils is here!!! the universal cure all your mom used to give you !!!

[Aidlywo]

Never fear Strepsils is here!!! the universal cure all your mom used to give you !!!

hehe and for cuts / grazes Germolene ... not that I have seen a Defiler called that

[Mournsigh]

hehe and for cuts / grazes Germolene ... not that I have seen a Defiler called that

now there's an appropriate name lol

However NOT to lol about for creeps is the 2nd release notes (subj to change) for U10, as live on Bullroarer right now. Defilers and Weavers: forget about decent power drains from flies and toxin...2 updates (incl RoR) and 2 flies nerfs

Monster Play

• Standardized un-traited creep power pools
• Critical Defence Changes
  
  • 
    
    • The amount of Critical Defence provided by the innate Armour Passive has been reduced. We wanted to create more parity between Freep and Creep access to Critical Defence and felt that the base values were so high they did not encourage investment in Critical Protection Corruptions.
    • The amount of Critical Defence provided by Critcial Protection Corruptiosn has been increased to 1376 per Corruption.
• Adjusted power costs, restoration effects, and ICPR buffs on all skills to provide creeps with a similar treatment that the Freeps have received. With these changes, Creeps should find that they are able to actively participate in combat for longer periods of time. Although many restoration effects and buffs have been reduced, innate power expenditure should be at a much more manageable point.

Reaver

• Increased base ICPR rate
• Increased the cooldown of Time-Out to 90s and reduced power return and ICPR buff
• Decreased the power return of Wrath
• Reduced the power restore of Against All Odds while traited

Weaver

• Reduced the power restore on Feast
• Reduced the ICPR provided by Drinker of Blood
• Reduced the power drain effect on Toxin

Blackarrow

• Increased base ICPR rate
• Reduced the power restore on Centre
• Reduced the ICPR provided by Tireless Warrior

Warleader

• Increased base ICPR rate
• Decreased the ICPR provided by Command Post
• Increased the power restored by Quitters Never Win
• Reduced the ICPR provided by Empowering
• Reduced the ICPR provided by Tireless Warrior

Stalker

• Increased the ICPR provided by Shadow stance

Defiler

• Reduced the power drain/restore effects on Plague of Flies (EDIT: live reports state approx MAX 60-85 per sec now at highest rank/all traits)

[Oldwiley]

For what its worth, you forgot:

•Six new Critical Rating Corruptions have been added to all Monsterplay classes.


Looks like its era 10 ongoing return of the freep healerfest when you read every change. Power drains are going to become almost irrelevent.

[Squelcher]

Anyone who has an interest in trying to get Turbine to take action against clubbing, please post here:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...57#post6657657

[stoffi]

Apologies for responding a bit late, but I don't read this forum very much..

Succeeding in killing someone just because you can press a bunch of 'you may not use any skills at all' buttons (chainsilence, chainstun) is something I find fairly irritating. These skills simply obviate the need for skilled play.

Aren't they? There's hardly any burgs and LMs in the moors these days, and while RKs can stun, I am not really aware of them doing so exclusively and repeatedly.. Of wargs, otoh, there are quite a few. (I am not sure why I should care that wargs are even more obnoxious on other servers: Should I feel grateful?)
Furthermore, while it's all well and good to note that other classes exist that possess comparable skills, it seems to me that if those classes hardly ever behave the same way, this matters. As such, I'm not sure things even out as easily as you here try to suggest.


And hunters *are* built for it? What makes wargs special? If DF can be blocked in combat without devs caring about hunters dying a lot, so should sprint.

You sound like a hunter player. Are you? Because this looks very much like trolling. A warden complaining about warg cc.... Lol. Try creeping and discover what being hit by cc really looks like.

My god so you say a hunter can burn a flayer warg or a shadow in 2/3 seconds so the warg will reach him to land a few hits to achieve that you need to track the warg and sadly when you do it the warg can hit hips or sprint to avoid that advantage of the hunter EASILY sadly when hunter gets attacked he must stay and fight or to be close in a keep to hug npcs if he cant burn the warg. Those skills are a must for any classes he counter and if a hunter doesnt know them he is prolly new to his class or just not a main toon.

Have you even played the hunter? Freep rank will matter after u10 so more reknown is just for the showoff same as rating.(that goes for the easy reknown)

Burgs and stalkers can be all the time on stealth a hunter has only a STAND STILL stealth skill and if he is an elf a 30minutes cooldown slow movement stealth. I play both of classes and i know that by far its easier to be a warg on the area called ettenmoors than a hunter. If you make a hunter just to steal reknown with pew pew skills then i pity you.

Freeps are not soloers? you just lost it. last week i was solo every warg i faced decided to use hips and come with a pack or another creep.

What kind of moron hunter would stand unprotected in the open when wargs are around? Delotha and a few others could pull it off, but any other hunter would be a fool to try it. There's something called "other freeps" and "keeps" and "npcs" that a hunter can use.

Delotha always used to move around in stealth when he played, he even walked from GV to TA in stealth. I came across him by accident a few times in the middle of nowhere. Maybe that has changed now, but hunters sure could move in stealth in RoI, and they had pretty nice stealth too if they used various items. Has that changed?


Hunters are Renown winners. How much more do you want?


Freeps don't solo as much as before, no. Same goes for creeps. You will encounter some soloers but much, much less than in RoI. Are you arguing to argue or did you misread?


A smart hunter will rarely have to melee. The hunter's advantage is RANGE and any half decent hunter will manage to use that advantage. Sure, sometimes melee can't be avoided, but RANGE goes most of the time.

We're only missing Pelt here to tell us how underpowered hunters are and how op all creeps are. That would make this complete.

Hmm, i was preety sure im talking with average intelligent person. Do i really need keep repeating myself in every single post? Im talking about SOLO, not zerg, raid, group, SOLO. Get it?

exactly, and you know why? >put here my previous posts, all of them<

Off topic. When i speak to people i try to treat them seriously, and tryin to reply to ALL they say. I could take your extremely ignorant opinion about hunter stealth and keep "loling" at it for next 10 pages, because believe me, you showed your ignorance posting something like this, i was shocked how little you know about hunter class.

edit
Agree, that "80%" thing was exaggeration

Solo.... How many hunters that you know of are SOLO, as in the term ALONE with no freeps around him?

Anakin Skywalker will claim that he is solo a lot, but we all know that's not true. If you see Anakin Skywalker, you KNOW there are other freeps close. He may not be grouped, but he sticks with other freeps. That is no crime, he's only playing on his strengths.

Hunters usually have other freeps around them, keeping wargs at bay. We all remember the oc/ec fights where hunters and other ranged freeps were kings and queens. Hunters rank easily because they are ranged. How can you argue that? And in doing so, they are easy, also because you really don't have to move or get positional or worry about cc or worry about any melee.

In RoI, hunters could move around with good stealth. Has that changed with RoR or not?

[Viriel]

Anyone who has an interest in trying to get Turbine to take action against clubbing, please post here:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...57#post6657657

I will Squelch but many tried before and it didn't worked at all. I'm not holding my breath but lets hope this time it will be different.

[Squelcher]

I will Squelch but many tried before and it didn't worked at all. I'm not holding my breath but lets hope this time it will be different.

Not everyone will have tried as hard as I will.

[Reapor]

About Hunter movement in Stealth, only Elf Hunters can do it, at a greatly reduced movement speed and -3 Stealth Level, it is a Racial Trait with a CD of 30mins, so yes some Hunters can move in stealth once every 30mins, this is hardly equal to Warg or Burg stealth.

There are items that can increase tthe Stealth Level, but these are not in general geared for Hunters, but for Burgs, they are also in the main pretty krap with really poor stats, and I`ve never seen a Teal Item with +Stealth on it, so to use it as a Hunter would be greatly gimping his Stats.

As far as Hunters go , yes they are easy to level, and they used to be great Renown gatherers, and to a certain extent they still can be in a Raid, but in a Raid the Renown is shared so the Raid Hunter is no longer making masses of Renown for himself, even a solo Hunter leeching off a Raid no longer gets the numbers he used to.

Hunters rely hugely on thier CC for solo`ing, to keep a Creep at range a Hunter MUST have viable CC, unfortunately the Creep Brand has made nearly all Freep CC unviable, loads of Creeps now have these Brands, and a fair few Creeps have more than one, and Creeps are not shy in using them, this has made it nearly unviable for a Hunter to solo, because once the Creep is in melee most Hunters are dead, yes there are exceptions.

The whole Hunter/Warg debate is based on melee Vs ranged, unfortunately Audacity, Brands and certain Creep skills have made keeping an enemy AT Range a whole lot harder, making the solo Hunter a scarcely seen entity.

[Oldwiley]

About Hunter movement in Stealth, only Elf Hunters can do it, at a greatly reduced movement speed and -3 Stealth Level, it is a Racial Trait with a CD of 30mins, so yes some Hunters can move in stealth once every 30mins, this is hardly equal to Warg or Burg stealth.

Completely true.

There are items that can increase tthe Stealth Level, but these are not in general geared for Hunters, but for Burgs, they are also in the main pretty krap with really poor stats, and I`ve never seen a Teal Item with +Stealth on it, so to use it as a Hunter would be greatly gimping his Stats.

Completely true.

As far as Hunters go , yes they are easy to level, and they used to be great Renown gatherers, and to a certain extent they still can be in a Raid, but in a Raid the Renown is shared so the Raid Hunter is no longer making masses of Renown for himself, even a solo Hunter leeching off a Raid no longer gets the numbers he used to.

Also very true, though a solo hunter in an unraided up zerg or clustered fight is going to make more than a warg who would have to get kills in the middle of the cluster.

Hunters rely hugely on thier CC for solo`ing, to keep a Creep at range a Hunter MUST have viable CC, unfortunately the Creep Brand has made nearly all Freep CC unviable, loads of Creeps now have these Brands, and a fair few Creeps have more than one, and Creeps are not shy in using them, this has made it nearly unviable for a Hunter to solo, because once the Creep is in melee most Hunters are dead, yes there are exceptions.

I oppose the inclusion of these brands in their current form. They are not as widespread as they probably feel to freeps, but in time the number will continue to grow.
As for solo hunters there are still some. Dirac was around today; I saw him at lc and watched as he tracked me but alas was on the phone and did not want a fight. I saw him later near tr and jumped him (immune popped up), unfortunately two bas were nearby and nuked him. Vlaan was also gutsy enough to give this a go.
Wargs also rely on cc, removing it would mean they would need to be much beefier, as it is freeps have tools to manage this also. The viability of a solo hunter has changed a lot tho, that is true. They are not unplayable, but they are a taller order now.

The whole Hunter/Warg debate is based on melee Vs ranged, unfortunately Audacity, Brands and certain Creep skills have made keeping an enemy AT Range a whole lot harder, making the solo Hunter a scarcely seen entity.

True as per above. Wargs remain the only toon on the moors with no ranged capability whatsoever mind you.

Having powerful ranged attacks is a biggie; its probably top of the useful things in my toolkit list and why minis, rks (even those with dual boxed pocket captains which you all accept is ok I assume), lm's and hunters will thrive on the moors in terms of renown in a multitude of situations. There is no warg/hunter debate in reality, its like saying which is nicer strawberries or chilli?

[MrSandman70]

Not everyone will have tried as hard as I will.

Ah well put my views down and signed it. I wont hold my breath that turbine will act or I will probably turn blue But Kudos for sticking with it Squelch fingers crossed

[giboosc]

Solo.... How many hunters that you know of are SOLO, as in the term ALONE with no freeps around him?

Less than solo wargs, because its easier on warg - thats my point from the begining

Anakin Skywalker will claim that he is solo a lot, but we all know that's not true. If you see Anakin Skywalker, you KNOW there are other freeps close. He may not be grouped, but he sticks with other freeps. That is no crime, he's only playing on his strengths.

If you see Anakin Skywalker in moors you got to take your pills, or wake up. Callin people "funny" names its low, very low.

Hunters usually have other freeps around them, keeping wargs at bay. We all remember the oc/ec fights where hunters and other ranged freeps were kings and queens. Hunters rank easily because they are ranged. How can you argue that?

I cannot and i dont, because you keep changing subject. Solo =/= zerg, easy to play =/= easy to gain points.

And in doing so, they are easy, also because you really don't have to move or get positional or worry about cc or worry about any melee.

Still off topic.

In RoI, hunters could move around with good stealth. Has that changed with RoR or not?

Nothing has changed, hunter (efl racial) moving stealth allways was cr@p.
http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Silvan_Shadows

[Retarius]

There are items that can increase tthe Stealth Level, but these are not in general geared for Hunters, but for Burgs, they are also in the main pretty krap with really poor stats, and I`ve never seen a Teal Item with +Stealth on it, so to use it as a Hunter would be greatly gimping his Stats.

Yeah, poor stats, everyone knows hunters need lots of might.

[itghhhf]

Thank for spars last nite, slowly getting better on the guard, wish he had some sort of self heal! But hey you just got to get on with it!

[Reapor]

Yeah, poor stats, everyone knows hunters need lots of might.

Okay, there is one Teal item, I still wouldnt swop it for my Draigloch Cloak though, just for +2 Stealth. And no Hunters dont need Might you silly boy.

[Beraine]

There is no warg/hunter debate in reality, its like saying which is nicer strawberries or chilli?

Chilli of course