Last edited by Nakah; Aug 14 2013 at 02:06 PM.
I can only base things on what happens when I'm on the field. I've not been around much lately, mainly due to the fact that the action sucks for the most part.
I hope you're as vocal to the Freep raids about avoiding PvE. No raid or group I lead ever has PvE as its main objective. I turn up looking for fights, plain and simple. As ever any accusations can be levelled at either side, and each is as guilty. Plenty of times there's been a Creep raid hunting around for a Freep raid only to realise the opposing raid has indeed snuck off to PvE it's backside off when there's people waiting who would be willing to fight them.
You sure as hell ain't seen any group or raid I'm leading hugging anything. It bores me to tears. Once again, I'm there to fight. There are many others who lead far more effectively than I do. They might be a little more prone to hide and seek as you say. Here's the reason why. The only time a Freep raid is out in the open is when they vastly outgun the Creep raid which is not exactly the best time to charge head on into the dps onslaught.
Now, as one who is so quick to point out my failings in basic reading, I would ask you to go back and read my original posts. My only point concerning raids was the offhand comment about why people are caling for more in globallff even when they're already winning fights easily. Not a single word about actual raid fights. In all honesty I prefer smaller group fights or mad clashes between small groups and soloers. These are the fights I'm talking about. NOT a bunch of people hugging keeps from a raid but small groups or a collection of solo folks who could still have huge amounts of fun yet run for the hills at the first sign of damage.
Though if we're going to talk about raids let's do so. On numerous occasions Creeps are asked to give it their all, wipe after wipe. On numerous occasions we're left twiddling our thumbs wondering where the Freep raid has gone, only to see it back on the field 10 minutes after we disband. It's nice to know that some of you simply don't care though, at least I have a better picture of where we stand.
Oh, and Pouchie, I'm not even looking for a fair fight. Just a fight, thanks very much. Gets rather annoying watching a bunch of folks rush out, kill one or two monsters then high tail it back to npc cover. Maybe it's just me that thinks we should be trying to kill everything that moves or die trying. Not retreating after one or two of the softest targets are taken down.
Can we shift the emphasis away from raids? Again, I'm talking about open fights between fairly evenly matched forces where people just run for cover in the middle of what could become an interesting fight.
As I stated, I prefer other kind of fights to raid nukefests.
Alas I can no longer bring my tiny minstrel to The 'Moors as he's retired at the lofty age of 66. The questland side of things was broken for me long ago.
Please understand all, I'm not looking for arguments or tit for tat "but but but" forum posts. I just wish more people would stand and fight 'til the bitter end, on both sides of course. The point is I can poke my fellow monsters in ooc and try to encourage them to push out more, stop hugging if they are, or stand and fight if they want to run away. The only dialogue I can have with Freeps in general is here in forumland. Frustration gets the better of me sometimes is all. Questland is broken beyond repair for me, The 'Moors is a mess but it's the only bit of Middle Earth I get small doses of fun from and I know it can be better. Broken PvMP yes, but we as players never help.
My goblin scribe Maude is getting tired of having to the scribble the same things down every few months for years, but it's a fitting punishment for her.
And the answer might be the same, very uncomfortable one every few months Thingo.
I played 3 creeps from r6 to r7 recently. While ranking those 3 creeps (reaver, ba, wl) I was grouped maybe 6 or 7 times because no groups were formed in OOC.
However, when I moved around the map I saw big creep groups/raids making the map red, taking middle boss buff in dof etc.
When freeps camped Grams creeps prefer to stay solo. I don't know how often Coulton could nuke my ba at gy or Grams with several healing creeps around because the creeps healed only their tribe members, no "cross-tribe" group was formed. Sometimes, all of a sudden, a big creep group charges and drives back the freeps to lug. Those groups again were formed secretly, excluding creeps who were around and waited for days to be invited to a group.
I wished I could have been in those weird-formed groups/raids. It's very disappointing, but noone advertised, noone invited, noone replied in ooc when I asked to join. What I saw mostly was members of a tribe grouping with other tribe members.
I saw creeps rather standing around bored at grams before they group with low ranks or non-tribe members to go and fight. Many creeps probably don't don't think of that. They can't imagine how the situation is for creeps outside of their tribe. Use OOC to communicate, really.
It's no fun to be a creep when you are solo for weeks with less than 10 times being invited to a group.
So creeps stop playing, not enough creeps log in to form an opposition.
That's what was going on when I played creep recently.
only few creeps i like atm, the rest is just annoying players.
so think about it, try to change who you are if want other players to do the same thing.
All good points Tanyc and nicely put as well.
Here's where we find ourselves between a rock and a hard place. Speaking about my own tribe, we can usually form a full fellowship at least as we approach peak time. So, assuming we do so there's the distinct possibility that whatever we're fighting is just going to vanish if we make the group into even a small raid. So how can we win? Invite everyone and be accused of forming zergs for no reason, or don't invite everyone and be accused of excluding others.
When it comes to Grams camping, or even in any other situation, most of the healers in Black Guard try to keep an eye out for any monster. At least that's my impression. Personally speaking I try to heal every single monster out there, no exclusions, not a single monster I won't try and help if I can.
There are also times when ooc is still used to form groups and raids. I myself can be found asking for people to join groups at pretty much any time of the day or night and quite often receive no takers, so it goes. Monsters spotted tagging along with groups or raids are sometimes invited along if there is need for more. I always have names turned off so don't always see them. Again this is dependant on what kind of opposition is around and if the group or raid needs more members.
There are simply times when the only chance we have to fight back is to pull as many of the high rankers available together. We can run full raids made up of low to mid rankers into the Freeps and it's like a mincing maching, chewed up with barely a kill. Were you around tonight at all? A full Creep raid going into 29 Freeps and it was just a bloody monster mess. I'd generously round our number of 24 down to 18 effectively, given lower ranks and no decent class balance in any but two of the groups. Everyone gave it their all repeatedly but there was simply no chance at all whatsoever. There has been a general sprinkling of many lower ranked folks in plenty of the raids I've been part of.
I actually make every effort to reply to any questions in ooc, especially from baby monsters. I frequently help out with quests, try my best to help them when I find them being jumped, invited many to little groups and always told them to feel free to send a tell any time at all. If you're back on Creep and see me around then feel free to send me a tell too, at the very least you'll get an answer as to whether there's a group up and if it needs more. And do poke me more than once if you don't receive a reply, very easy to miss any chat activity if I'm in the middle of a stick shaking emergency.
I'll say it again though, what do we do? Invite everyone and be accused of mindless zergs, or try to make reasonable groups and be accused of excluding folks?
Now for the thorny issue of why the use of ooc has slowed down to say the least. It's a direct result of people reading our ooc who shouldn't be. Simple as. Again though, I always make the effort to at least address questions that people have. Let's not pretend this is a new problem for baby Creeps to face though. There is no end of deafening silence, or in some cases ridicule, directed towards new people asking simple questions. This has been going on since The 'Moors was born I'd imagine. Certainly has been the case since I started coming here. I wrote about it from both Freep and Creep perspectives a couple of years ago on the old Codies forums. A few people said "ahhh, you raise some good points" before quickly forgetting about it and resuming the status quo. I originally became a monster because nobody wanted to help a new Freep out back in the day, or group with him despite the fact he was one of the few actually healing everyone about him.
It's why I find it amusing at times to see people make rash generalisations about either side. Something I myself have been guilty of when I allow my goblin scribe Maude to take notes when I've been sipping wine. As she sits here writing, the growing realisation dawns that this place has always been the same. Just the players change occasionally. The same affliction of mad ego trips persists, people using this place as their own personal playground with no regard to anyone else at all. It's quite shocking really and makes me question why I've hung around for so long.
Anyway, I digress. There's another reason why it's no fun to be a Creep these days, especially a baby monster. Unless you have some sort of sadistic pleasure in having your entire body melted, literally in seconds. Just watch how fast some of the bigger monsters go down at times, you really could see a baby monster explode in the time it takes to blink twice. That's why a lot of folks don't stick with it these days too you know, doesn't matter if they're in a raid or surrounded by healers, they just go BOOM in three blinks instead of two.
As I get gloomy I remember that there are indeed still some lovely folks out there, on both sides. People who are indeed willing to help others. I wish there were more. I wish more folks would be willing to let silly grudges slide and work together. Oh noes, I'm getting gloomy again. As a wise man once said "Wish in one hand, #### in the other, see which fills up first".
I was actually going to lock my goblin scribe Maude up in her box for a while and be done with these pages, but I liked the way you made your points. So she's out loose, I figure if I have to put up with some of the #### that flies around this place then y'all can put up with mine.
Three points I raise:
Firstly, creeps do read freep OOC, we have tested it many times previously and again tonight. No creeps at red TR, we OOC we going there and 1 minute later the creep raid turns up at good tr mapping in numbers, same thing happened at lug, tol, everywhere else, everytime small freeps groups OOC intention, creeps turn up mapping in numbers a minute or so later. Creeps complain about freep ooc spys, but it is happening both sides
Secondly, there were some great fights at TR HS this evening Thingo, at least from the freep perspective. You see we listen to you. Creeps had a full raid plus a large warg pack/raid with them. Freeps were not raided. My group was only 5 man, (and then 6 later) Ruca had a group of 8, Cronik a group of 4, rodin and bando duo as usual, plus 5 soloers. We counted how many freeps at TR HS, 24 roughly in the groups mentioned against the creep raid and warg pack/raid. The creep raid did charge us in the open ( a minute or so after we ooc where we were and challenged creeps to come, again proving creeps read freep ooc) and we all fought a good scrap. Freep stayed at TR HS, but we had to wait 15 minutes or more for you to show up again and we know u knew we were there because wargs were spam tracking us constantly and u tried to flank us and catch us all by surprise when you did finally show, fair enough. We then waited for another 20 minutes before you showed up again with another flank attempt. 3 times we all fought in the open, no npcs, but then the creeps raid gave up and withdrew to a red TR to hug. Now we are talking about a full organised creep raid plus warg pack/raid versus random freep groups and solo players, so freeps were not even all following the same rat etc. You requested open fights, we gave them tonight, so please tell the reason why did the Creep Raid stopped coming to TR HS for fights against freeps who were not raided, and the Craid then chose to hug a red TR after the open fights you requested?
Thirdly, Tanycs perspective is correct. Creeps are there own worst enemy, in that the whole creep community at the moment is simply not encouraging players to log creep, and thus they create themselves the situation they often bemoan about. A few times I log creep, I never ask for grp or raid invites as I only creep with friends or solo. But as soon as the ooc bs starts when I or me and my m8s have logged creep to try to balance action and some creeps tell us to go back to freep side, sometimes we say 'okay going back on freep,' and the creeps then complain they lack numbers etc and there are too many freeps. A few freeps I now often group with started out as freavers on creep, but were treated with hostility by creeps as fc baiters or spys and so on, and chose to never join the creep community again (and if you choose to respond with well some are spys, yes, that may be true, but my first point that freep ooc is also full of creep spys is also true). The creep community only has itself to blame for the problems it faces, not those who play freep, so stop blaming all of Evernight creeps issues and complaints on freep players please and look to yourselves for the cause of many of your woes.
Last edited by Nakah; Aug 14 2013 at 09:42 PM.
Hmm. So Nakah, none of what you've just pointed out shows the insane disparity between the sides at the moment? Didn't say there's no Creep reading Freep ooc, was just answering Tanyc's question about why many of us don't use it as freely as we used to, I frown upon it equally on either side. In saying that, plenty of folks with whatever the hell plugin it is frequently call out Freep numbers and locations in ooc. Any possibility it's those wargs you mention spam tracking you that find you? I also suggest you try speaking to the person who was leading the warg pack at the time you mention. When our raid had disbanded the very same person mentioned they hadn't seen a Freep all night yet.
But you're probably right, it's all our fault, everything is. We can only dream of being as saintly as your newfound martyr friends.
Oh dear Maude, that didn't last long. Back in the box with you!
Happy hunting all, see you on the field as I won't be back here any time soon.
Last edited by Tarenius; Aug 15 2013 at 11:43 AM.
I also like to say, number 1 to blame for present gaming experience in the moors is ultimately Turbine with their complete indifference and broken promises to PvMP. They created these half baked ideas of game mechanics and terrible class imbalance.
Never mind all, be lucky to see another year of this game, then all this discussion/arguing will be totally irrelevant. I'm speculating of course but I wonder if Tolkien Estate/ Middle Earth Enterprises will agree to a license renewal with their thorny relations with Warner Brothers? Or even WB not renewing if they don't think they can make a reasonable profit.
Hope I'm wrong but maybe everyone should let these constant disagreements drop and make the most of what we got. We could well all be on borrowed time in a game we love and feel passionate about.
Constant dcing tonight nice work turbine with the disconnetion fix
"Your World Character Transfer is now complete. I have debited 2,995 Turbine points from your account."
So Long & Thanks for All the Fish by
So long and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this
We tried to warn you all but oh dear?
You may not share our intellect
Which might explain your disrespect
For all the natural wonders that
grow around you
So long, so long and thanks
for all the fish
The world's about to be destroyed
There's no point getting all annoyed
Lie back and let the planet dissolve(around you)
Despite those nets of tuna fleets
We thought that most of you were sweet
Especially tiny tots and your
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long
So long, so long and thanks
for all the fish
If I had just one last wish
I would like a tasty fish
If we could just change one thing
We would all learn how to sing
Come one and all
Man and Mammal
Side by Side in life's great gene pool
(oooohhh oooohhh oooaahhhhh- ah ahh)
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long
So long, so long, so long, so long, so long
So long, so long and, !Thanks!
for all the fish!
Epic action at night! So funny and crazy battles in Ost. A pity lag issues in that server for both sides but still I imagine all get a bit of fun despite that... cheers brave creeps and real freeps who show that night!
And freeps in TR, you lost Benny Hill's raid moves... more luck next time!
This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.Reload