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  1. #2551
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Rotterdam
    Posts
    114
    Cheers Thingo i try my best but even i got flaws and cannot forsee everything.

    Some people see it all black and white, i know creepside got it hard but that got nothing to do with the raids i made lately. When i see freepside (stupid as ever) gets camped at gv (even when we got tol) and creeps don't try anything either, i will break open the slug and try to take over tr so the action goes to a better place, wich happend after i took tr and lc yesterday i disbanded.

    It's so easy to flame 1 person to qq about 1 person, really why not realease the frustration and make someone a scapegoat. It's easier to fire all those hatred towards 1 person. This is not a sided thing, it's human nature. I try to encourage freep side to keep ooc clean wich happens allot latelly as it totally unneccesary to fill ooc up with all the frustration.


    Just so u know guys, even if evernight is a small server new players join everyday and might try creep too, thus all this flames and hatred in ooc is not a good way to support our server.

  2. #2552
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by ThingoMD View Post
    I still think too many people are happily joining these raids though, would love to see twelve people having a shot rather than going straight to numbers approaching twenty. I honestly think this is having a negative impact on freep abilities, for it seems many people have no idea at all what to do when they're solo or in a small group.
    This is the main problem I have noticed these past few days and I fully agree with everyones favorite stickshaker on the matter.

    I have always said, especially during the 'Creep OP period', that freeps needed more capable leaders to lead them into battle. It seems they have finally found one in Evelien. I fully applaud Eve for bringing some organisation into these freeps and providing them with a means to fight us.

    However, as Thingo said, whenever a raid is started on the freep side, it (usually) seems to take massive proportions very fast and quickly goes to a number where creeps cannot even fight back, even though it was just solo creeps and small groups that were giving freeps a hard time to begin with. As a humble suggestion to Eve, I ask you to try making smaller groups and maybe 12 man raids to start off with. This will encourage creeps to step up their game and still give the already exisiting small groups a fighting chance, rather than getting frustrated by the numbers you are stacking and simply log off. Not only that, the freeps you do take into your groups will also have to step up their game, giving them more (and better) fighting experience than they could possibly get while outnumbering creeps 2 to 1, thus turning them into better players. If you still feel like you do not have a fighting chance against these creeps, you can invite more and try again.

    These are just the observations of a simple Warleader. Do with them whatever you like

  3. #2553
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Disneyland
    Posts
    509
    Quote Originally Posted by pattt View Post
    Cheers Thingo i try my best but even i got flaws and cannot forsee everything.

    Some people see it all black and white, i know creepside got it hard but that got nothing to do with the raids i made lately. When i see freepside (stupid as ever) gets camped at gv (even when we got tol) and creeps don't try anything either, i will break open the slug and try to take over tr so the action goes to a better place, wich happend after i took tr and lc yesterday i disbanded.

    It's so easy to flame 1 person to qq about 1 person, really why not realease the frustration and make someone a scapegoat. It's easier to fire all those hatred towards 1 person. This is not a sided thing, it's human nature. I try to encourage freep side to keep ooc clean wich happens allot latelly as it totally unneccesary to fill ooc up with all the frustration.


    Just so u know guys, even if evernight is a small server new players join everyday and might try creep too, thus all this flames and hatred in ooc is not a good way to support our server.
    We get the same problems currently that you mentioned you had on freep side some time ago. When we don't have enough experienced or high ranked players on, in order to put up any type of fight, we take in lower ranked creeps without full audacity and it ends up being a horrible experience for them and a farm fest for a 24-man freep raid. You said yourself that you wouldn't put new freeps through this and usually disband, so I hope you can understand what I mean by that. I spent most of the last raid trying to get them to turn on the raid assist window, then after 30mins I asked if everyone can actually hear Thingo and Valdez talking because rat following and general discipline was awful. So yeah, as Thingo and Heph said, we could probably have some really nice fights with smaller raids (and less lag) although there will always be followers on both sides.

    And as a note about the last line of your reply here, I think most of it comes from the frustrations of not being able to use ooc properly anymore. New players are in for a hard time anyway because nothing is communicated there, so our ooc is usually used to wind up those that we know are spying to get a rise out of them, not because we actually mean the things we say.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThingoMD View Post
    Let's be honest here.

    Renown/infamy does say something about the action. When you can look through days and see the Top 20 earners all freep it means creeps have been getting annihilated. Not just a few points difference, but thousands, and tens of thousands in some cases.
    The power of DoF buffs. Always fun to try and stop a freep group getting them (although lag in there for me is the absolute worse) but if we are trying to have more organisation it'd be cool if both sides could have a buff. To be honest I wish they'd be either nerfed or taken out of the game.

    Also, just as a personal thing rather than any type of complaint, i'd always put fun fights above any need for a certain keep to be ours, not the other way round. That isn't directed at anyone, it's just my opinion.

  4. #2554
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Rotterdam
    Posts
    114
    Jynx, I know. and I'm trying to change my ways, In the begining i made raids because freepside lacked a raid leader and they where constantly pushed back to gv. Now the situation has changed but most freeps don't change, It takes time for people to realize that.

    When we had the arrange spar i didn't made a rat on purpose and even told most minstrels not to heal, I don't want mindless slaughter i want a battle.

    But what people should not do is try and mock me like dusky does with the constand op flipping and ruining the action all the time when it is good.

    Also what might be an idea is to make a gentelman agreement on both side having 1 dof buff, like on got the drake and one got the tree, and the middle is for the one who is botherd to auctally put time and effort into it. I know agreements are hardly being kept or considert kept if we look at the op's. but we as high ranks and tribe's/kin's could do that. because newbie solors aren't ging to do tree or drake by acsedant, wich is sometimes the case with the op's.

  5. #2555
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    851
    Eve, i was about to suggest the same thing.
    Would also like if there was a max 12 man groups like suggested.
    Even if one side has 2x 12 man groups, they will still not be as efficient as a full raid.

    Max 12 man groups.
    Dof buffs one for each, middle for the side that has patience to take it. No interference on tree/drake.
    Ops 2-2 (random pve flips are going to happen, not a big deal)

    As one of the creepside leaders i am willing to commit to these gentleman rules.

  6. #2556
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by Faildget View Post
    Max 12 man groups.
    Dof buffs one for each, middle for the side that has patience to take it. No interference on tree/drake.
    Ops 2-2 (random pve flips are going to happen, not a big deal)
    ./signed

  7. #2557
    Can i just say the best place for these 12v12 or 20v20 or whatever size is lc hs use that as the arena ,reason been there is a nastly little warg pack that sits around watching rvrs waiting for low moral players to gank ,so maybe using lc hs will give them idea its arranged and dont get involved unless they in the rvr .

    We need more spars aswell i know lot of you enjoy them ,if the above posts are going to be intergrated into evernight lets intergrate spar sessions also ,x2 things to look forward to when loggin evernight pvmp now ,hope this all works out and isn't just hearsay


    regards back stabber.......

  8. #2558
    Quote Originally Posted by minnimeepouch View Post
    Can i just say the best place for these 12v12 or 20v20 or whatever size is lc hs use that as the arena ,reason been there is a nastly little warg pack that sits around watching rvrs waiting for low moral players to gank ,so maybe using lc hs will give them idea its arranged and dont get involved unless they in the rvr .

    We need more spars aswell i know lot of you enjoy them ,if the above posts are going to be intergrated into evernight lets intergrate spar sessions also ,x2 things to look forward to when loggin evernight pvmp now ,hope this all works out and isn't just hearsay


    regards back stabber.......
    I really don't understand ur fixation on wargs... honestly...

    and did you ever thought that some people simply do not like to spar???

    what is the problem a person playing their class the way it is supposed to???

  9. #2559
    Quote Originally Posted by VMFGuedes View Post
    I really don't understand ur fixation on wargs... honestly...

    and did you ever thought that some people simply do not like to spar???

    what is the problem a person playing their class the way it is supposed to???

    Oh dear someone didn't read the post correctly ^^ if the rvr is at lc hs then gankers will understand its arranged ,gank who you wish im just saying rvr at lc hs will make it clear not to gank cos its arranged ,little tip always read a post few times before you respond things do look diffrent if you analyse ,anyways im not here to start flaming a war im here due to the fact i agree with freeps and creeps above posts.

    Also you don't have to spar i never said you did please read the post again ,alot of players do like to spar though jeez dude get some sleep.

    Last edited by minnimeepouch; Jun 18 2013 at 08:44 AM.

  10. #2560
    Quote Originally Posted by minnimeepouch View Post
    Oh dear someone didn't read the post correctly ^^ if the spars are at lc hs then gankers will understand its arranged ,gank who you wish im just saying rvr at lc hs will make it clear not to gank cos its arranged ,little tip always read a post few times before you respond things do look diffrent if you analyse ,anyways im not here to start flaming a war im here due to the fact i agree with freeps and creeps above posts.

    Also you don't have to spar i never said you did please read the post again ,alot of players do like to spar though jeez dude get some sleep.

    I undestood ur post correctly... what I don't understand is why some people keep saying wargs = gankers...

    I guess it would be ok for u if people kept saying burglars = gankers...

  11. #2561
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    27b/6 Mudhole Towers
    Posts
    160
    Finally, after much trial and error and experimentation on my goblin scribe Maude, it seems my newly released MDMA leeches are taking effect, we love each other after all! Hurrah!

    Count me in for the aforementioned gentleman's/ladies agreement. There's enough of us willing to try to keep to them, but as Valdez noted OP's will occasionally flip but we can just swap them back in mere minutes. There will also be people who do not care for such agreements, so let's just not over react on the occasions where something does happen - "They took our OP/Buff....KILL EVERYTHING!!!!".

    And for those who wish to spar, of course you're more than entitled to try to arrange them. I would suggest those who want to spar simply ignore any comments in ooc aimed at them when they come over to advertise. Just do your thing, it's pretty hard to argue when one party does not engage and try to answer negative comments.

    Perhaps we could also make an effort to get more people leading groups. The other day some of the low to mid ranks started an open raid, let's face it, it's the lower ranked folks who really SHOULD be grouping all the time on creepside at least. They're the ones who explode in seconds after all. It's great to see other people trying to get groups going. I had a fellowship at the time and we simply supported the small creep raid in their fight. More people leading means a possibility of more groups on the field. As much as I enjoy raid fights on occasion I would much rather be engaged in group battles. We have at least four people capable of leading raids on creep, and a lot more who are happy to lead a smaller group. More leaders on freep would help Eve out too, for like me I'm sure you don't want to be leading raids every time you appear. It can be frustrating and a lot less fun than people think.

  12. #2562
    I guess that if freeps ans creeps would agree that some areas would be for pre-arranged figths, things could work better on that matter...

    just define those areas, and define the terms in wich those figth will happen...

    as far as low lvl creeps, I guess that small groups is the better choice... at least from my personal experience...

  13. #2563
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Disneyland
    Posts
    509
    I like the ideas going on here, also nice to talk to freeps without too much animosity going on. PVP on this server can drive the coolest person to the edges of insanity sometimes so it doesn't help when you get people like He Who Must Not Be Named (not Voldemort) rubbing salt into wounds on our OOC. But I digress.

    Few things just to add:

    • Not every freep/creep will be raided and its a little unfair to deny them fun/inf/ren when there is rvr going on. I think it'd be nice to see lower ranks/inexperienced creeps and freeps be given some fun, because that is what will keep them coming back for more.
    • Both sides can't control those who might not be playing fairly.
    • Auto-flips can sometimes destroy good action and therefore maybe a side should be given a period of time to correct that.
    • Good action and fights often come from utter chaos, and too much organization and niceness can be demotivating. Respect and communication is all that is really needed.

    To be honest I don't see these agreements as truces or treaties, mostly I see them as players trying to correct the awful decisions made by Turbine that keep destroying our pvp. I think this is where we might benefit from being a small server. Maybe we should follow that line.

    /end Gandalf moment.

    OK, too much niceness going on here, its making me uncomfortable. Hand me that stick so I can beat Maude with it, please.
    Last edited by nubcat; Jun 18 2013 at 09:14 AM.

  14. #2564
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    322
    cheers everyone for tring to make ettens a better place (once again), yet (what already has been said) some might do the opposite, as "rules" can be easily taking advantage off.
    But I dont want to mezz the goodness, although some may know (I am maybe a bit late in this?) that leaderboards are getting removed and the "fc" can have it's on way.
    The way I see it (maybe not shared) is that it's really going downwards with pvmp, as this was the only way to check people's stats. So yes, another punch in the face from turbine, if this is gonna pull through.
    And then ranks are going to be totally meaningless, something that it's already today, but even worse and the "earning and satisfaction" of killing someone becomes useless. At the same time, server transfers are useless, cuz any bigger servers has more of these "idiots" who are using this time, to shine with their icon (wooohhhh! rank 15, in only 3 days of non-stop fc)!

    SRSLY!

    P.S. Sorry for this post.

  15. #2565
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    328
    Leaving the other side a GY is a decent thing for action though autoflips are a pain, and in general 2 OPs each as far as that is possible is good. The only thing with the gentlemans agreements I don't agree with are the sharing of the DoF buffs, and the reason is not to see the other side off without a buff, it's because some of the most exciting action in Ettens lately has been underground in those tunnels and I would miss those battles, if we are truced on the buffs there we have no reason to fight there. I find it exciting when a load of wargs/creeps are waiting at the side to try to steal the KB on a boss freeps have done work to take down as it makes a group/raid dps like mad to stop it happening.

  16. #2566
    Quote Originally Posted by nubcat View Post
    I like the ideas going on here, also nice to talk to freeps without too much animosity going on. PVP on this server can drive the coolest person to the edges of insanity sometimes so it doesn't help when you get people like He Who Must Not Be Named (not Voldemort) rubbing salt into wounds on our OOC. But I digress.


    OK, too much niceness going on here, its making me uncomfortable. Hand me that stick so I can beat Maude with it, please.
    Nice start to be nice and i nsame times bitter lol.

    I infact do not even talk in chat if you have noticed unless *some* delibaretely provoke me by false accusation o of any kind or even worse, verbal abuse to say it mildly....

    I dont rub any wounds ..i do reply as I said to things untrue , without proof etc delibaretely thrown at me..I f i defeny me by wrong your side is doing is adding salt lol? All I have spoken was true, be that in past when I have said creeps do same, raid, zerg etc etc and you were all denying it-that was result when I was accused to zerg maps or so.....
    other things mostly last month or so I was defending myself with false accusations, which do not stand at all and each day is repeated(funny was sunday when i was crafting most day until evening and was acused of aynthing just becouse creeps some are angry i play class good and need flame), so doubt that would be adding salt from my side-morso from your side as creep and sometimes even you jinx so this post of you is meh really and nice troll to be nice and +add salt+ same time....

    Have nice evening
    Last edited by bosty; Jun 18 2013 at 12:39 PM.

  17. #2567
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    27b/6 Mudhole Towers
    Posts
    160
    Elm, every time you bring this up you are only adding fuel to the fire.

    As I tried to explain to you yesterday there is NO reason for you to be logged on creep whilst you are playing your freep. Whether it's right or wrong people are going to be suspicious of your intent.

    The easiest way to make this go away is to stop being on creep and freep at the same time.

    Once again, there is NO reason for you to be reading creep ooc for any purpose. Stop logging both sides at once and I'm sure you'll find people soon forget all about you and comments will come to an end.

    Simple.

  18. #2568
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
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    140
    Quote Originally Posted by bosty View Post
    I am a harmless OOC spy bla bla bla
    Creep OOC is one of the places creeps can vent their frustration, letting it all out so they can continue without being full of anger after say, being zerged. Your involvement in an OOC where you do not belong is exactly why creep players are now using the forums to hate, flame and more. Their frustrations are now placed here and, as Eve has stated, someone will be the scapegoat. It usually seems to be Evelien, even though he has proved to me and many other creeps that he does infact care for the best on both sides, something that cannot be said about you.
    It does not matter if your name is named in a way you think is unfair to you, you have no business in creep OOC and should stay quiet whether you are accused of something or not.

    Your immature behaviour has already resulted in you being booted from your kinship, and you are hated more than any other freep around, simply because you just seem to cannot keep your mouth shut. Yet you continue defending yourself as if you are right and everyone else is wrong. Ask yourself, is it really worth it?

    Feel free to post your usual defensive "nice troll" post that you have posted on every forum post involving your name.

  19. #2569
    Quote Originally Posted by ThingoMD View Post
    I still think too many people are happily joining these raids though, would love to see twelve people having a shot rather than going straight to numbers approaching twenty. I honestly think this is having a negative impact on freep abilities, for it seems many people have no idea at all what to do when they're solo or in a small group.
    Freeps are more. Creeps are less. (I is smart)
    Freeps have a lower average player skill level than creeps. (also obvious)
    If we imagine there are 50 freeps and 20 creeps on.. I would probably say that over 35 of the freeps will be worse players than 15 of those creeps. Therefore, as soon as someone shouts for a possible 6-man, he will be swarmed with 23456 tells (i havent pvp'd in months but i remember it was like this when it was the closest to creep-freep balance).

    So, I will correct you in saying that the raids being formed aren't having a negative impact on the freep abilities. It's the bad freep abilities that are having an impact on the size of raids and tbh, the only person being blamed for it is one of the few who can make them for a start.

    Some guys wiped in school of tham mirdain the other day. Just Saying

  20. #2570
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,878
    These are good ideas, and I agree with them in general - a 12 v 12 raid would mean that the OP dps that freeps can bring to the table is not out of proportion, and neither is the creep survivability - these factors should balance each other in this scenario. I also think that a 2/2 OP system (may I propose River/HH for creeps, AE/Isen for freeps?) would work, as would freeps keeping TR, creeps keeping Lug, with others being left to mess with. I also think Drake for freeps and Tree for creeps (as they are closer to the respective OPs I outlined above) would be a good system, as it will prevent what we've seen previously, of freeps getting 21k or so, and the highest creeps getting 9k. However, I do forsee some problems:

    1. We can't stop those who are determined to follow a raid. In order to allay suspicion, it would be great if the freep and creep leaders were on TS so any suspicions could be swiftly dealt with.
    2. It may become rather exclusive, which isn't good for low rankers/new players - these 12 v 12 raids can't make up the entirety of Moors action for that reason (a couple of hours a night should be plenty).
    3. People shouldn't be stigmatised for PvEing at times - so if the map is empty, and the creeps or freeps zerg a map while there aren't many others on, this is my book is still ok - its extra renown/infamy, and not at the expense of any real action.
    4. If an OP or a keep flips, then the raid who has lost it (if its the ones mentioned above) is given a chance to go and get it. If there are two raids on one side, then the situation becomes more complex, but as I'd only recommend this raid v raid only goes on for two hours or so, this shouldn't be too problematic.

    But in essence, this is a great idea - it just needs some fine-tuning, plus people need to make it clear when these raid v raids are going to take place - advertisements on both OOCs are important, and hopefully it can build a better, and longer lasting PvMP community.

  21. #2571
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Nanda Parbat
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    569
    Quote Originally Posted by Faildget View Post
    Eve, i was about to suggest the same thing. Would also like if there was a max 12 man groups like suggested. Even if one side has 2x 12 man groups, they will still not be as efficient as a full raid. Max 12 man groups. Dof buffs one for each, middle for the side that has patience to take it. No interference on tree/drake. Ops 2-2 (random pve flips are going to happen, not a big deal) As one of the creepside leaders i am willing to commit to these gentleman rules.
    I will just sign on, if 12 man grps are max. but freepside just got 1 person leading them atm, so it's = 24 ppl fighting = restrictive pvmp... It needs to be fixed or that idea will never work.

  22. #2572
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    851
    One of the best pvp days in ages, so much good fights all over the map! Tons of deaths and kills
    Was really nice to see how groups msee way to soloers and creeps gave freeps a chance to get autoflipped tr back in few occations.

    All went really smoothly from my perspecive, dof and ops aswell.

    I do hope, this is a new and lasting direction to Evernight pvp!

    Cheers everyone!

  23. #2573
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portugal
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  24. #2574
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    27b/6 Mudhole Towers
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    Good to see you back Brave Sir Ruca! Just as I was saying freeps need more leaders and *poof* as if by magic you appear!

    Also, just to mention, the idea isn't that people should never form larger raids. Of course if the numbers on both sides demand it by all means grow the groups. Really I think the point is just not to go to a large raid straight away.

  25. #2575
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Finland
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    851
    I am going to say this one more time, i hope you get your head around it this time.

    I do not spy freep ooc, i don't need to.
    Yes i have had many tells from many players copy pasting freep ooc, if my name has been brought up, in order to trashtalk me.

 

 
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