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Thread: Crafted Armor

  1. #1

    Crafted Armor

    It seems that all the new crafted armor geared towards wardens lack block. Even the crafted tanking shield has more parry than block. There is tons of evade on everything. This should be fixed. A big hoplon looking shield should serve a purpose.

  2. #2
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    Block is nowhere near as important for a Warden as Evade is. Ever since Warden became Agility-based instead of Strength-based:

    Agility provides the following for Wardens:

    10 Physical Mastery Rating
    5 Tactical Mastery Rating
    2 Parry Rating
    4 Evade Rating
    1 Crit Rating

    Might provides the following:

    2 Parry Rating
    4 Block Rating
    2 Physical Mitigation
    Block / Evade Ratings

    Wardens are based off Evade more than they are Block, I would assume because of the nature of their tanking. Since they can only Block and Parry what is directly in front of them, but they can Evade in a 360 degree radius, it would make sense (even if the class mechanics weren't focused on it) to stack Evade over Block or Parry.

    See here and here.
    [b]Naethirven Erebrandir[/b] 28 Captain [b]Skaldulf[/b] 10 Lore-Master [b]Smyther Ficklefen[/b] 25 Burglar [b]Thirlim[/b] 14 Rune Keeper [b]Dolduoth Galvornel[/b] 28 Warden

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberkyd_30 View Post
    Block is nowhere near as important for a Warden as Evade is. Ever since Warden became Agility-based instead of Strength-based:

    Agility provides the following for Wardens:

    10 Physical Mastery Rating
    5 Tactical Mastery Rating
    2 Parry Rating
    4 Evade Rating
    1 Crit Rating

    Might provides the following:

    2 Parry Rating
    4 Block Rating
    2 Physical Mitigation
    Block / Evade Ratings

    Wardens are based off Evade more than they are Block, I would assume because of the nature of their tanking. Since they can only Block and Parry what is directly in front of them, but they can Evade in a 360 degree radius, it would make sense (even if the class mechanics weren't focused on it) to stack Evade over Block or Parry.

    See here and here.
    I have no idea if your sig is up to date or not, and this isn't intended to be a condescending post, but everything you have to say reflects someone without a character who has ever seen level cap, and where priorities belong upon reaching that point and attempting to create a 'build'.

    Evade is absolutely the most important avoidance stat for a warden, and (IF our Dev ever actually ends the grace period, which has not happened in BETA) carrying Agility over might is certainly superior. What you don't realize yet, is that given current stat distributions on items and skill bonuses, Evade is incredibly easy to cap (25%), at which point, more rating is completely useless. Since Agility contributes so strongly to evade, it will 'naturally' be our highest avoidance, meaning we need the least raw evade rating on gear to reach that cap.

    What is better, overcapping Evade by 5000 rating points and having a block rating 5000 below the cap, or just hitting the evade cap, and also having block capped?

    With the BETA gear available it seems like block will be extremely hard to come by, and wardens will have to dip into drops intended for Guardians to boost that stat (and if the Grace period ever actually ends, lose out on a lot of mastery at the same time).
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    With the BETA gear available it seems like block will be extremely hard to come by, and wardens will have to dip into drops intended for Guardians to boost that stat (and if the Grace period ever actually ends, lose out on a lot of mastery at the same time).
    You can have the block ratings from our champ gear
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  5. #5
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    I have no idea if your sig is up to date or not, and this isn't intended to be a condescending post, but everything you have to say reflects someone without a character who has ever seen level cap, and where priorities belong upon reaching that point and attempting to create a 'build'.
    Which is why I shared what I thought was relevant information from the forums and not just my opinion. I spend a lot more time reading the forums and listening to podcasts than I do actually playing, unfortunately =P

    Evade is absolutely the most important avoidance stat for a warden, and (IF our Dev ever actually ends the grace period, which has not happened in BETA) carrying Agility over might is certainly superior. What you don't realize yet, is that given current stat distributions on items and skill bonuses, Evade is incredibly easy to cap (25%), at which point, more rating is completely useless. Since Agility contributes so strongly to evade, it will 'naturally' be our highest avoidance, meaning we need the least raw evade rating on gear to reach that cap.
    Ah, I didn't realize it was that easy to cap. And I also didn't know the grace period hasn't ended yet.

    What is better, overcapping Evade by 5000 rating points and having a block rating 5000 below the cap, or just hitting the evade cap, and also having block capped?

    With the BETA gear available it seems like block will be extremely hard to come by, and wardens will have to dip into drops intended for Guardians to boost that stat (and if the Grace period ever actually ends, lose out on a lot of mastery at the same time).
    I see what you are saying. Wouldn't it be a good idea to worry more about Parry than Block, though, considering Parry factors in Agility whereas Block doesn't? Plus, with the inherent shield buffs in the class, isn't it already very easy to hit the Block cap, even after the Helm's Deep changes take place?

    Sorry if I'm missing something very important; As you have already (very graciously) pointed out, I haven't actually reached end game myself.
    [b]Naethirven Erebrandir[/b] 28 Captain [b]Skaldulf[/b] 10 Lore-Master [b]Smyther Ficklefen[/b] 25 Burglar [b]Thirlim[/b] 14 Rune Keeper [b]Dolduoth Galvornel[/b] 28 Warden

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberkyd_30 View Post
    Ah, I didn't realize it was that easy to cap. And I also didn't know the grace period hasn't ended yet.
    Actually good point. Has the Might contributes to our avoidance stats grace period ended? It was supposed to go when we got a new release.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberkyd_30 View Post
    Which is why I shared what I thought was relevant information from the forums and not just my opinion. I spend a lot more time reading the forums and listening to podcasts than I do actually playing, unfortunately =P



    Ah, I didn't realize it was that easy to cap. And I also didn't know the grace period hasn't ended yet.



    I see what you are saying. Wouldn't it be a good idea to worry more about Parry than Block, though, considering Parry factors in Agility whereas Block doesn't? Plus, with the inherent shield buffs in the class, isn't it already very easy to hit the Block cap, even after the Helm's Deep changes take place?

    Sorry if I'm missing something very important; As you have already (very graciously) pointed out, I haven't actually reached end game myself.
    As I probably should have pointed out in the other post, while harder to do so than Evade, Parry too can reach cap (or near it) without too much fuss.

    Basically as a tank when you've reached level cap you have the following stats to try and maximize, in rough order of importance (and yes this is certainly up for debate, but to give you a general picture):
    A morale pool large enough to not be killed before a healer can respond
    Mitigations Capped
    Block, Parry, and Evade as high as possible
    Incoming Healing
    Critical Defense
    Finesse
    Physical/Tactical Mastery
    Critical Rating

    A well geared tank at 85 can have roughly 19-20k morale (unbuffed, and this figure is large enough to absorb the hits, IMO)
    Cap mitigations
    Cap BPE (with self-buffs)
    Have incoming healing above 20% (not counting racial bonuses, and the cap is 25%)
    55+% critical defense
    All of these stats are at least nearly maxed, while Finesse, Mastery, and Crit rating are very helpful, there simply isn't enough stats on gear to maximize them at the same time, and they are a lower priority. Of the above stats, My experience is that since the switch to Agility, the hardest of the high priority stats to max is Incoming healing, followed closely by Block rating, as there is a pattern of not including much block on instance rewards or "raid armour" for wardens, so me must seek out block from either friends who play heavy classes that see jewelry drops with block on them or the Auction Hall.

    The problem isn't simply that its hard to max block, because its very doable, and making it difficult to make a complete build is part of the fun of end game (IMO). Its that some stats (in this case evade) are so widely available for us when we likely aren't looking for it, while others that we need more of to begin with are in shorter supply. Thus far in Helm's Deep, this problem is even more prevalent than it is in RoR.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    Actually good point. Has the Might contributes to our avoidance stats grace period ended? It was supposed to go when we got a new release.
    The grace period for might has to do with it contributing to MASTERY, not avoidance or mitigations which it will always do. This grace period has not ended, either on the live servers, or in BETA. As far as I'm aware there has been no announcement regarding if or when this grace period will end, aside from the Dev release Cyberkyd_30 linked above, which is quite old now. I'm considering this to simply be a Dev forgetting to flip the switch, as anyone who intends to make the switch to agility has already done so, and there is no reason to no include it in an Expansion pack when everyone will be throwing out their old gear as they level anyway.
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  9. #9
    I think they simply painted themselves into a corner. Its too much work to go back and change every warden item to use agility or to make 2 sets of tanking reward jewelry. In short it was a trap, they thought they would be fixing an issue with crafted armour and created an out of control monster that they can't put back in its cage. Block btw is not needed my lvl 90 on bullroar has about 8000k block and can easily cap it with buffs up ( well for the 10 seconds or so the buffs are up). In fact with all agi lvl 90 tanking gear I can cap evade with shield mastery alone. I would imagine it would be even easier with the EB reward jewelry and whatever if any teal armour set they make. I hope the grace period doesn't end as it gives us the flexibility to use might or agi gear to balance our BPE without sacrificing DPS in the process. Which is important since DPS = threat now with the threat changes.
    Welleg - brandywine, Kelleg/Gelleg - Landroval
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gelleg View Post
    I think they simply painted themselves into a corner. Its too much work to go back and change every warden item to use agility or to make 2 sets of tanking reward jewelry. In short it was a trap, they thought they would be fixing an issue with crafted armour and created an out of control monster that they can't put back in its cage. Block btw is not needed my lvl 90 on bullroar has about 8000k block and can easily cap it with buffs up ( well for the 10 seconds or so the buffs are up). In fact with all agi lvl 90 tanking gear I can cap evade with shield mastery alone. I would imagine it would be even easier with the EB reward jewelry and whatever if any teal armour set they make. I hope the grace period doesn't end as it gives us the flexibility to use might or agi gear to balance our BPE without sacrificing DPS in the process. Which is important since DPS = threat now with the threat changes.
    Keep in mind that its been suggested that things like the conversion from rating to percentage will be changed and just hasn't been implemented. Gear stats are through the roof, but if it takes double the rating to achieve the same block rate after these changes, it will be an entirely different scenario.

    I don't have a ton of faith in the majority of the devs working in lotro curently, but its hard to imagine they'll release HD without etheir nerfing item qualiry, or as they suggested, adjusting rating caps/conversion ratios.
    Last edited by spelunker; Nov 09 2013 at 02:49 PM.
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  11. #11
    according to my checks at this point BPE cap is just around 16k with mit cap around 17k ish. Which is just a bit up from 85 at least at 90. I suspect at 95 with the 95 crafted gear cap in mits and bpe will be easy. I did make one note on building my char. I intentionally focused on evade and parry more than block so that I only need to focus on running one gambit series. Also the different buff gambit series stack rather than just upgrade to a new tier with a longer duration. So persevere , safeguard , and celebration all stack their block buffs for like 3k + block from that series alone. We will see if that makes it to live without a duration boost though. Otherwise if they do increase that duration, I would really lower unbuffed block and evade in favor of crit defense and just use the buffs to get to cap. As it is though there is only time to buff either block or evade to max buff and keep it there.
    Welleg - brandywine, Kelleg/Gelleg - Landroval
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

 

 

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