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  1. #26

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    I play both sides. A lot. I have over 1 mil renown on freep and over 750k infamy on creep. I certainly think I've been on both sides of the fence enough to speak without bias. There are certainly no OP creep classes. The closest thing is maybe a flayer warg, which I can still kill 90% of the time even if they get the jump on me, on what you stated is the weakest freep class, my hunter. Your statement seems to hint at one thing: You've barely or never have played a creep. Creeps used to have two things over freeps, dots and aoe rez. Now freeps have better dots and an aoe rez as well. Freeps > Creeps in every aspect of combat.
    ^agree.

    I've completely given up on lotro pvp ever achieving "balance", and if somehow it comes about it will be by sheer coincidence, not dev intention, and will ultimately be short lived. Despite devs assurance that the "many-to-one" concept (creep:freep) was trashed, the current (and U7) state of the moors suggests that it not the case. Many freep classes are currently dominant 1v1, and in group play a well geared/played freep group can take on a much larger creep force successfully.

    Sadly, I'm more excited about the next beta event for that other game, then lotro pvp. (ziff - get it). With the current state of the moors for "newer" or even returning creeps (audacity grind), if a large chunk of "vet" creepside player base leaves for that other game (or even plays lotro less frequently) its going to be rough creepside - especially on low/mid pop servers.
    Last edited by chrisCML; May 09 2012 at 04:21 PM.
    GRUSM - REAVER, DUSKPAW - WARG, STIXM - WEAVER, GRUZGASH - BA

  2. #27
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Tchad View Post
    Oh might vet Vic, that has close/over 2mi infamy/renown (Turbine should make a custom title for u dude), I am sorry to have my humble and noob opinion different from yours.
    It's okay, if I only played freep, my opinion would probably be biased too.

    Misadventure - R14 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R10 Guard
    Velvetsixteen - R13 Reaver, Reported - R11 Warg, Gloriousleader - R10 WL


  3. #28
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    You're a bunch of meatballs. Meatballs ready to get eaten!

    Tingur's guide to Kill freeps:

    Viceras = Hit him with something, it make him use Dazing blow, he'll get into kiting, then make a warg sneak up on him from behind, then Viceras will have to choose a chance for a kill OR to take down the biggest DPSer.

    (to clarify, Viceras will die. he wont always escape so the question is, will he turn towards the biggest DPSer or will he continue on his first target :O?)

    Mellar = Wait for his track, drag him into the bushes, ambush.

    Clevinger = Ignore him, then he will go into a corner, QQing a little then log over showing off his WL/Burg.

    That was Tingur's first guide on how to kill/remove certain freeps.
    Last edited by Witch0King; May 09 2012 at 05:12 PM.
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

  4. #29
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    One more post turned upside down by a freep/creep debate. I will keep my point, this discussion is ridiculous. Even if the game was balanced, both sides will still think it is not - and only the might Vic is entitle with an opinion because he have 1mi renown/infamy on each side. Yey.

    Moors is much more about strategy, leadership and skill then about OP classes and f(c)reep having advantage.

    PS: For once I sort of liked your post Tingur, and lets wait for that cristal thing goes live and see how much it will affect the moors.
    Mellar@Gladden, DOTH Hunter.

  5. #30
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Tchad View Post
    One more post turned upside down by a freep/creep debate. I will keep my point, this discussion is ridiculous. Even if the game was balanced, both sides will still think it is not - and only the might Vic is entitle with an opinion because he have 1mi renown/infamy on each side. Yey.

    Moors is much more about strategy, leadership and skill then about OP classes and f(c)reep having advantage.

    PS: For once I sort of liked your post Tingur, and lets wait for that cristal thing goes live and see how much it will affect the moors.
    Every increase in hunter DPS is a negative thing my friend!
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

  6. #31
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    Every increase in hunter DPS is a negative thing my friend!
    Indeed. A 10% increase in hunter dps would mean a 10% increase in QQ from Tingur

    Misadventure - R14 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R10 Guard
    Velvetsixteen - R13 Reaver, Reported - R11 Warg, Gloriousleader - R10 WL


  7. #32
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Stepping up to take the button night after night takes its toll on anyone. Take a break and recharge the batteries moors will be there when you’re ready...take care Spiderbyte.

    As for you whining 1v1'rs crying about balance YOU ALL keep missing the point. Moors never was and never will be about class balance, if you’re coming out to the moors to 1v1 YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

    If the rumors are true and Glee and his merry band of misfits are returning it'll take him some time to get organized but ultimately moors play will be better for it. Play is balanced when, and only when, each side is grped up utilizing all their skills and playing together as a team.

    One other thing while I have your attention, the crystals don't appear to be much of a boost to dps, healing, or any other skills based on what's on BR at the moment. I realize that things on BR change however; no one should go off running around with their hair on fire saying that moors is coming to an end because of the addition of the crystals until it goes live....at the moment doesn't look like that big of a deal. If anything, the DPS boosts might be targeted to bring them more in line with what the creeps (ranked ones) are doing.

    It's been obvious to me for some time that no one is going to stop 1v1 play however; waiting for Devs to balance classes without a major change to Moors play is a "pipe dream" in my opinion.....Moors is designed for grp play not 1v1.

    Any Devs like to respond?

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  8. #33
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    Indeed. A 10% increase in hunter dps would mean a 10% increase in QQ from Tingur
    15%, Im hoping to surpass DoG one day

    Btw, those crystals arent the doom of PvP, it just add extra DPS which is not needed in PvP atm.
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

  9. #34

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Woah, lots of stuff to address in this thread.

    Spiderbyte
    Hate to hear you're frustrated with the moors these days spider. You are one of the best creep side leaders and its always a lot of fun to raid with (or against) you. I hope to see you back out in the moors after some R&R with a fishing pole.

    Creep vs freep balance
    Ive played both sides a fair amount and for my 2 cents worth, I have to agree that in general freeps have the upper hand.

    How did update 7 change things?
    Spiders and wargs got some very nice changes but even with the changes there are no creep classes that currently match the most OP freep classes.

    Audacity: Once both sides have rank 7 audacity I think audacity helps creeps a little more than freeps. However, the CRAZY pricing of skills/corruptions for low ranked creeps means that creeps have to choose between ranking audacity or gaining their basic class skills until they are rank 6+. The end result is that freeps get audacity ranked up way before creeps...

    Upshot
    The moors isn't balanced and its never going to be. However, the good news is that even with the imbalances a group of skillful well led players on either side (freep or creep) has always been able to overcome the enemy. At the end of the day it has always been possible for either side to overcome equal (or even slightly greater) numbers of the enemy if they outplay them. Ive seen it done since the first day I set foot in the moors and I have seen it done after update 7.
    Last edited by Mystarr; May 09 2012 at 06:08 PM.
    Merridan - Burglar lvl 105 (Rank 12)
    Gormadan - Minstrel lvl 105 (Rank 4) : Traldan - Captain lvl 105 : Celebdan - Weaver (Rank 11)

  10. #35
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    If anything, the DPS boosts might be targeted to bring them more in line with what the creeps (ranked ones) are doing.

    Misadventure - R14 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R10 Guard
    Velvetsixteen - R13 Reaver, Reported - R11 Warg, Gloriousleader - R10 WL


  11. #36
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystarr View Post
    Ive played both sides a fair amount and for my 2 cents worth, I have to agree that in general freeps have the upper hand.
    Careful pointing out you've played both sides a fair amount. Some people might overreact.

    Misadventure - R14 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R10 Guard
    Velvetsixteen - R13 Reaver, Reported - R11 Warg, Gloriousleader - R10 WL


  12. #37
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystarr View Post
    Audacity: Once both sides have rank 7 audacity I think audacity helps creeps a little more than freeps, but the CRAZY pricing of skills/corruptions for low ranked creeps means that creeps have to choose between ranking audacity or gaining their basic class skills until they are rank 6+. The end result is that freeps get audacity ranked up way before creeps...
    Completley disagree.....start a creep and freep at level 1 and race to see who has rank 7 audicity first. Creep should win that race every time. A raid ready Freep has to get all his gear, virtues, skills, FAs to equal a ranked creep and then start working on moors gear/audicity. Moors gear is nice but can't be used in all situations for raiding.

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  13. #38

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    Careful pointing out you've played both sides a fair amount. Some people might overreact.
    My main freep is Merridan and my main creep is Celebdan. I make no bones about the fact that I enjoy playing both sides. I think it helps you understand the moors better.
    Merridan - Burglar lvl 105 (Rank 12)
    Gormadan - Minstrel lvl 105 (Rank 4) : Traldan - Captain lvl 105 : Celebdan - Weaver (Rank 11)

  14. #39
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Completley disagree.....start a creep and freep at level 1 and race to see who has rank 7 audicity first. Creep should win that race every time. A raid ready Freep has to get all his gear, virtues, skills, FAs to equal a ranked creep and then start working on moors gear/audicity. Moors gear is nice but can't be used in all situations for raiding.

    Val
    I'd like to point out that the leveling/grinding is the PvE part of the game and not designed for PvP while the creeps are designed for PvP and matching the freeps
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

  15. #40

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    See you soon Spider! Have some fun and do some fishing while you are "taking a knee" from the game. Take care.
    Wolfgash - Rank 14 Warg, Gladden

  16. #41

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Completley disagree.....start a creep and freep at level 1 and race to see who has rank 7 audicity first. Creep should win that race every time. A raid ready Freep has to get all his gear, virtues, skills, FAs to equal a ranked creep and then start working on moors gear/audicity. Moors gear is nice but can't be used in all situations for raiding.

    Val
    A good example of how tricky it is to draw comparisions in the moors. Assuming you actually mean a lvl 1 freep, Id say its not a fair comparision. A lvl 1 freep isnt running around trying to earn his advancement in a PvP zone. Sure it takes MUCH more time to rank a freep from 1 to 75 and gear him, but the game is designed to make that a balanced fun experience (even if it can be fairly grindy.)

    By contrast a rank 0 creep is out in the moors facing freeps that have already learned to play their class through 75 lvls of play and just need to get armor to max their audacity. The new creep is still learning how to play their class and cant even afford to buy their skills as they rank. Actually buying audacity is just a pipe dream until rank 6+ (Assuming they stick around that long since they are trying to earn their ranks vs freeps that already have all their skills and are quickly pulling ahead of them on audacity rating.)
    Last edited by Mystarr; May 09 2012 at 06:36 PM.
    Merridan - Burglar lvl 105 (Rank 12)
    Gormadan - Minstrel lvl 105 (Rank 4) : Traldan - Captain lvl 105 : Celebdan - Weaver (Rank 11)

  17. #42
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystarr View Post
    Assuming you actually mean a lvl 1 freep, its not a fair comparision. A lvl 1 freep isnt running around trying to earn his advancement in a PvP zone. Sure it takes MUCH more time to rank a freep from 1 to 75 and gear him, but the game is designed to make that a balanced fun experience (even if it can be fairly grindy.)

    By contrast a rank 0 creep is out in the moors facing freeps that have already learned to play their class through 75 lvls of practice and just need to get armor to max their audacity. The new creep is just learning how to play the class and cant even afford to buy their skills as they lvl. Actually buying audacity is just a pipe dream until rank 6+ (Assuming they stick around that long since they are trying to earn their ranks vs freeps that already have all their skills and presumably know how to play their class.)
    Creep ranks shoudn't be a gimme....bottom line is a creep will have rank 7 audicity long before a freep will...it's a balance :P

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  18. #43

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Creep ranks shoudn't be a gimme....bottom line is a creep will have rank 7 audicity long before a freep will...it's a balance :P

    Val
    If you start timing it the day the freep/creep is created you are correct. (Creep will have rank 7 audacity first)

    If you start timing it when they first set foot in the moors at lvl 75 you are wrong. (The freep will have rank 7 audacity first.)

    Nothing to argue here.
    Merridan - Burglar lvl 105 (Rank 12)
    Gormadan - Minstrel lvl 105 (Rank 4) : Traldan - Captain lvl 105 : Celebdan - Weaver (Rank 11)

  19. #44

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystarr View Post
    Audacity: Once both sides have rank 7 audacity I think audacity helps creeps a little more than freeps.
    Curious as to why you think it favours creeps over freeps.....

    For starters audacity itself favours healing classes the most....freepside has more classes with heals/self heals (and greater hps), and they are more dangerous to begin with. You could also argue by creating longer fights....you are creating more chances for fight changing crit/devs to occur....and atm freep crit rates/magnitudes > creep.

    Freep downside I guess is forced armor set - but the uncapping of stats basically forced them down this road to at least have some basis for attempting to create balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystarr View Post
    Upshot
    The moors isn't balanced and its never going to be. However, the good news is that even with the imbalances a group of skillful well led players on either side (freep or creep) has always been able to overcome the enemy. At the end of the day it has always been possible for either side to overcome equal (or even slightly greater) numbers of the enemy if they outplay them. Ive seen it done since the first day I set foot in the moors and I have seen it done after update 7.
    While I agree with you, I would argue freepside has more and better tools for this, and is able to overcome greater odds.
    GRUSM - REAVER, DUSKPAW - WARG, STIXM - WEAVER, GRUZGASH - BA

  20. #45

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    I keep getting an error when I try to reply to your post.

    I'll try again later
    Last edited by Mystarr; May 09 2012 at 07:02 PM.
    Merridan - Burglar lvl 105 (Rank 12)
    Gormadan - Minstrel lvl 105 (Rank 4) : Traldan - Captain lvl 105 : Celebdan - Weaver (Rank 11)

  21. #46
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Being OP only really comes in numbers.

    As for how people pvp... if you think there is only one way to PvP then YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. If PvP is about renown/infamy YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. If it's about fun, risk, and challenge, YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT. >>>used CAPS for dramatic effect<<<

    Grouping (not raiding), to me, is the most fun and challenging if the odds are even or against us. It's what this game is made for. Spontaneous skill usage to kill and to survive. Sure beats spamming bolster for 3 hours and getting 10k of renown by having the leader on /follow. There has to be more than one way to play in the PvP zone if you want risk. What's the fun in anything with out risk? If it's not about risk than it's all about farming. Raiding is the easiest exploit in the game to rank if there is no risk or opposition.
    Clown • Reject • Gigabytes

  22. #47

    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystarr View Post
    I keep getting an error when I try to reply to your post.

    I'll try again later
    My posts are OP!
    GRUSM - REAVER, DUSKPAW - WARG, STIXM - WEAVER, GRUZGASH - BA

  23. #48
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    I'd like to point out that the leveling/grinding is the PvE part of the game and not designed for PvP while the creeps are designed for PvP and matching the freeps
    If you don't PVE then you can't PVP....did you even think this through "cat boy"?

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  24. #49
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    If you don't PVE then you can't PVP....did you even think this through "cat boy"?

    Val
    You make no sense. None. Zero.

    Go play bingo.

    Misadventure - R14 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R10 Guard
    Velvetsixteen - R13 Reaver, Reported - R11 Warg, Gloriousleader - R10 WL


  25. #50
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    Re: My lack of time in the moors

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    If you don't PVE then you can't PVP....did you even think this through "cat boy"?

    Val
    Well I dont get why freeps complain about leveling/grinding. If People want to PvP right away they can just roll a creep. Freep PvP is an optional part of the end game, the PvE is the game, once you're done with leveling and gear grinding you're done with the game, only endgame left and that is either chilling out/making new alts/PvP.

    I enjoy the PvE very much, leveling a lvl 51 hunter & 39 LM atm, but once every day I spend ca 1-2 hours in The Moors creepside, Yes Im a Creep, but it doesnt take half a brain to sort out the bad creps either, no matter which side you're on. My view is somewhat onesided/biased but I know a coward when I see one.

    - Tingur, son of Tingurat the Tormenter who is the son of Tingum the Blackdog whose the great grandson of Pingur the Harvester of Sorrow.
    Last edited by Witch0King; May 10 2012 at 02:56 AM.
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

 

 
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